Our basement layout

[scott]

Well, I didn't get around switching the wires and terminal unijoiners around, but I did try all three controllers, and they're all doing the same thing (which makes me wonder if I've done something wrong--it seems unlikely that I'd get three duds). BTW, the controllers are MRC Tech4 260s.

With the momentum switch off, everything is fine. (Of course, I bought them *because* they had the momentum function...)

With the switch on, the trains won't start at all from a dead stop. If I start them with the switch off, then turn it on, they run more slowly. And if I then turn the throttle to zero, they just keep going as they were without stopping. The brake button seems to work with the momentum switch on, but the trains don't speed back up once it's off.

I'm stumped.

[Bernard]

Okay, lets try the one transformer that was supposed to be defective on another track just to be sure. If it response on momentum then it's something on that other track. Check the wiring and make sure there isn't a loose connection or a faulty wire. You might have to also switch wires around to find where the problem is. (Sort of like finding the Xmas bulb that is out in a line... :o)

[scott]

But if all three controllers are doing the same thing, will switching the leads to different tracks make any difference?

[CaptOblivious]

I think that if the issue were track wiring, the problem would be making the trains go. Since in at least some cases, the problem is making the trains stop, this suggests the problem is in the throttle.

There are others here who know more about MRC's throttles than I, but I would think it might be best to call the manufacturer and ask them what circumstances could lead to trains not stopping!

One thing I do know about MRC throttles is that the simulation of momentum can sometimes be a bit too realistic. I was just running some calculations on my DCC-equipped locos, and even at the most extreme setting that Digitrax decoders allow, the slowest possible acceleration of the model is still two to three times faster than the fastest possible acceleration of the prototype! MRC, errs in the other direction, allowing for incredibly slow---and hence realistic---starts and stops.

Bottom line: It might simply be that the momentum function is working too well. Try putting a train on the tracks, turning on momentum, and hitting full throttle. Wait for half an hour and come back and see if the train is moving. I bet it will be.

An easier test might be: Is there a way to adjust the momentum effect? To turn it down without turning it off?

[scott]

There doesn't seem to be any adjustment--there's just an on/off switch. I tried just closing the throttle and letting a train run, but by the time it had gone halfway around the long loop, I figured it wasn't planning to stop. Sort of like the bus service around here sometimes.  :-\

[CaptOblivious]

There doesn't seem to be any adjustment--there's just an on/off switch. I tried just closing the throttle and letting a train run, but by the time it had gone halfway around the long loop, I figured it wasn't planning to stop. Sort of like the bus service around here sometimes.  :-\

Give it a little more time. Several times 'round the loop.

[scott]

Soooooo...we're simulating the momentum of....the moon?  ;)

I've called MB Klein and MRC--just waiting for calls back.

[CaptOblivious]

Soooooo...we're simulating the momentum of....the moon?  ;)

I've called MB Klein and MRC--just waiting for calls back.

Er, no, more like a 100-car, mile-long freight train hauling 10,000 tons of coal…

[scott]

I don't think even JR can pack that much passenger mass into a 3-car EMU.  :)

[CaptOblivious]

I don't think even JR can pack that much passenger mass into a 3-car EMU.  :)

You, my friend, have never been to Shinjuku Station during rush hour ;)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/b0A9-oUoMug" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/b0A9-oUoMug</a>

[scott]

 :o

Y'know, I just never need to get home that badly.

[CaptOblivious]

So…is it just slow as molasses?

[Shashinka]

I don't think even JR can pack that much passenger mass into a 3-car EMU.  :)

You, my friend, have never been to Shinjuku Station during rush hour ;)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/b0A9-oUoMug" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/b0A9-oUoMug</a>

Been there, done that.

[scott]

OK. We have an explanation: I'm an idiot. (What's more, I'm an idiot and I demonstrate it publicly on the internet.  ::) )  Strange how often this explanation turns out to be the correct one....

The problem was that I was being impatient and tentative. I wasn't turning the throttle up very much, or waiting long enough for things to start (or stop) happening. So actually the momentum function *does* work, and it's pretty cool. Sorry for all the questions and idiotic fuss.

The good news is that this means the only thing I need to worry about now is a bit of engine-cleaning. But fortunately the Tomix JNR 115 (notice how I subtly stay on-topic there) is running really well.

[serenityFan]

cool, so you've got momentum working...
just to confirm, this is a DC throttle, isn't it? I wonder how slow the starting speed is from a full stop, would it be comparable to a DCC equipped train with BEMF?

[CaptOblivious]

Excellent news!

[scott]

Yup - our setup is DC. From a few minutes' experimenting, it can be a pretty slow start, but I don't have any way to measure or compare it.

[Bernard]

The momentum feature is great, you can see the difference when you switch from momentum to full, it's more realistic. I'm glad you got this sorted out and believe me don't feel like a fool, there are times I've had power problems only to find out that I didn't have the power pack plugged in. ::)

[scott]

there are times I've had power problems only to find out that I didn't have the power pack plugged in. ::)

 :)  Well, I still feel stupid, but that gave me a good laugh.

Tonight I'm hoping to try out the Microace Gakunan Railway "Akagaeru" emu that I got for our "local" line. It's like this one, but I didn't pay that much.  :)

[SubwayHypes]

post more pics!

[scott]

Thanks--I'm planning to. But since I had to work until after 9pm last night and came home all cheesed off, I didn't do anything more than figure out the momentum non-problem. I'll try to get some trains out and get some pictures in the next few days.

[Shashinka]

Yeah, in N-scale, that's enough for Tokyo. Serious Godzilla-bait.

Gogi-san's my buddy.

[scott]

Well, please ask him to not trash my layout. At least not until I finish the landscaping; I'd hate for him to waste his time.

[scott]

Motive power update:

Kato Arbeitwagen (used, not run recently): With a touch of grease, running much more smoothly.
Tomix JNR 115: Fine right out of the box.
Microace Akagaeru: Fine right out of the box, but the lights seem a bit dim.
Bachmann E60 #1 (The New One): Right out of the box, a truck fell out.  ::) The drive shaft went after it, although I didn't notice that at first. The gears in the other truck have lots of play, and the drive shaft tends to just spin.
Bachmann E60 #2 (The used one that doesn't match the kid's shiny Amtrak set): Ran very noisily. With some grease, runs...noisily. But will now at least leave the platform without a push from the Giant Finger.

I am soooooooo tempted to buy an ED7x, paint it silver, stick an Amtrak logo on it, and pretend it's an AEM-7.

[Bernard]

Personally I'm not a big fan of Bachmann. I had a few and they never lasted but people tell me good things about their Spectrum line.
But for me, their trains just don't hold a candle to the Japanese manufactures (Kato, Tomix (yes I said Tomix for DC) and MicroAce).
Are the Bachmann's now being made with 5 pole motors?

[scott]

Yeah, I'm not too impressed with Bachmann. But I needed some Amtrak equipment, and the main E60 is from an "NOS" set that I found for an affordable price. There aren't many choices other than Bachmann for electric Amtrak locomotives.

[CaptOblivious]

I am soooooooo tempted to buy an ED7x, paint it silver, stick an Amtrak logo on it, and pretend it's an AEM-7.

You know that Kato did that back in the late 80's with some EF65's, I think it was, for Con-Cor. They still show up rather frequently on eBay, keep your eyes open!

There's also this Arnold GG1 in Amtrak colors…
http://cgi.ebay.com/ARNOLD-N-SCALE-AMTRAK-GG-1-902_W0QQitemZ260370009196QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains

[Bernard]

GG1, I used to see that engine at the Sunnyside Yard going into MYC as a kid, great train. I know Kato recently started producing it.

Don, do you know if they make any other versions of it besides the Penn Line?

[CaptOblivious]

Nope, Kato is doing only Pennsy for now, although they now have two different color schemes for the GG1 available. Since Kato is fond of producing Amtrak stuff, I wouldn't be surprised to see it re-released in Amtrak colors in the future, but I also wouldn't hold my breath.

[scott]

Yeah, I'd need them to move the decimal point on that one a bit.  :)

It seems like the AEM-7 (which isn't available in N) is based on the Swedish Rc4. I tried to get a dummy/display model of an Rc4 on eBay to put on top of another chassis, but got outbid. The AEM-7 was always my favorite Amtrak engine, I guess because it looks more like the European electrics that I like. If an affordable European or Japanese Bo-Bo electric shows up, I may do the paint job.

[scott]

Had a little time for fun after dinner tonight:



But there were some odd combinations at the main station:


(sorry for the lousy pic -- I didn't take any time with the lighting)

Catenaries and two pieces of viaduct track arrived today, and I'm hoping to get some paint, glue, etc., this weekend to cover that arctic foam.

[SubwayHypes]

Haha is that an AMtrak along with a Minobu line?

I always thoght it would have been cool if japan shipped all their old trains over here to the states, they would be way better than the rattlebucket disgusting interiored commuters we have here, BART is lame!

[scott]

There are rumors going around that our station will also be hosting Deutsche Bahn trains soon. We're going to have to build a customs facility if this keeps up.

[disturbman]

Are you gining to add more diveristy to your rolling stock and going for Swiss, French, Dutch, Austrian... vehicles too?

[Bernard]

Great photo everybody is having fun and thinking about trains. :)

I have the same dilema about trians, even though I'm doing Japanese prototypes, even when I catch sight of an interesting train I usually buy it, case in point I recently bought a Roco Transeuro train from I think the 50s because of the design. Maybe if I have the "nerve" I might post a photo of it in the gallery.

Scott - you're building up quite a roster right now, why don't you post some of you trains in the gallery?

Okay I have posted the Trans Euro Express in the Gallery. ::)

[disturbman]

I'd like to see it, I suppose it's one of the german DMU TEE.

[scott]

Are you gining to add more diveristy to your rolling stock and going for Swiss, French, Dutch, Austrian... vehicles too?

Sure, if I can find them at affordable prices--some of my favorite trains on our few visits to Europe had coaches from several countries. Plus I really enjoyed the Dutch railways when we were there. It's just that I've found a bunch of DB stuff at good prices lately. (It all started when I found a bunch of Fleischmann coaches, which I never thought we could afford, for $10 - $15 in unused condition; they're all DB.)

even though I'm doing Japanese prototypes, even when I catch sight of an interesting train I usually buy it

We've pretty well given up on accurate prototype modeling in favor of just running what we like. Maybe when the kid is older we'll finally build an accurate JR or SBB layout, but not soon. So my stuff may not be totally on topic here, but I'll try not to wander off to much.

Scott - you're building up quite a roster right now, why don't you post some of you trains in the gallery?

Thanks--once I can improve the lighting over the layout a bit, I'll do that.

[scott]

A slight setback--last night (and well into this morning.... :P ) when I was dealing with some clogged drains*, I went to check for leaks in the basement, and water was dripping onto the layout! Eventually I figured out that it wasn't the drains leaking onto the table (phew) but just some water that I had kicked up trying to clear the drains--apparently I need to re-caulk the bathtub, too. For a minute there I was sure I had cracked a drainpipe and would soon have drainpipe contents on the layout.

So right now the layout is pulled away from the wall and covered in the dropcloths that were left over from the painting project. Oh, and in moving things, I knocked down an old deer skull we found in the woods once, and one of the antlers speared a piece of Unitrack, causing it to be taken out of service permanently--creased and bent track is bad. Maybe I'll post a pic.

Anyway, I'm hoping that a caulking job will get rid of the drip--I've never seen it before.

* Lesson 1: never try to fix a slow drain on Sunday evening. Doing so will inevitably cause a much larger clog somewhere farther downstream and keep you awake until 2am.  :P

[scott]

Okay I have posted the Trans Euro Express in the Gallery. ::)

Now that's a funky-looking train. Which is good.  :)

I recently had a t-shirt made with the TEE logo on it--I just liked it for some reason. Now my wife says everyone will take me for a Kraftwerk fan.  ::)

[Bernard]

Okay I have posted the Trans Euro Express in the Gallery. ::)

Now that's a funky-looking train. Which is good.  :)

I recently had a t-shirt made with the TEE logo on it--I just liked it for some reason. Now my wife says everyone will take me for a Kraftwerk fan.  ::)

Scott - Yes it does remind me of a Kraftwerk album cover.   ;D and you are not alone with running different trains that you like on your layout, I just never show photos of them. ;)

I almost had the same problem with my basement layout and a leaking pipe. It was in the middle of my layout, I was lucky because all I needed to do was replace a valve in the upstairs tiolet and the problem was solved.

[scott]

Yeah, I hope this is a simple fix, too. I had already gotten nothing done this whole weekend on the layout, and the last thing I need is a big setback. I guess it was good to find this before we started painting and plastering.

[SubwayHypes]

hahah ouch a deer head spearing the layout, funny how our N scale worlds have to deal with much different disasters than ours, like renegade giant cat attacks, deerhead spears, earthquakes almost everyday, and non stop construction work. 

[scott]

Yeah, there's nothing quite a like a 320-foot-wide deer bleached-white deer skull falling from the sky antlers-first to get your attention. Especially when on impact it bends each end of a section of railroad track about 30 feet in the air.

[SubwayHypes]

at least it didnt hit a train 8)

[scott]

Oh, man--if any of our trains had been crushed and bent the way that track was, *I* would have been crying, never mind the kid.

[scott]

Well, cross fingers and knock wood, it seems like re-caulking got rid of the drip over the layout. So the tables are back against the wall where they should be, and the track is back in place.

I found out the hard way that the Kato piers don't fit regular track, so now there's a bridge made of two pieces of curving viaduct track, and I cut some notches in the foam for the track base to fit down into. Next I need to get the platforms in place for Centra(a)l Station, drill some holes for wiring, and get some paint and groundcover so we can get started on landscaping.

[SubwayHypes]

^yea i had the exact same problem, over the past few weeks i have dropped almost a hundred dollars on viaduct track, still not even halfway done. 

[scott]

Now I have to figure out something to shore up the bottom of the pier, since I cut away too much foam underneath trying to get the viaduct track level with the regular track at either end. Maybe a plaster block or something...

[Bernard]

Scott - have you tried Hydrocal cloth? I've use a combination of foam w/Hyrocal cloth to make formations or to level parts off.

[scott]

Not yet, but I'll look for some. So far, we've been using the "things you find around the house" method.  ::)