ED16 keeps derailing

[VJM]

The front bogie, well, not really bogie, but leading axle on my Kato ED16 keeps derailing on unitrack joins.  It's 348 radius track, and I've run my finger over the joins a few times.  It's not perfect, but none of my other locos do it.  I though the back-to-backs might have been out of gauge, but shifting the wheels on axle hasn't helped.  Happens to the leading axles in both directions.

Any suggestions?

[Webskipper]

They always run fine until that one time.

Do the directions mention a minimum radius?

Try improving the joint. Maybe the joiner is too high or too far away from the webbing and causing the flare of the wheel to catch it.

Also try new joiners.

[nik_n_dad]

Does it behave the same way whether you are going clockwise or counterclockwise?  Does it change if you are pushing or pulling?

[inobu]

You need to perform the move test.

Move the component to a different environment and see if the problem follows.

Set up a test track replicating your layout. Same track, Same radius on a table.

Run the unit.

If it derails then the problem is most likely on the train and the problem follow to the new "test layout".

If it navigates fine then the problem was left behind on your layout track.

With the track on the table you can change the rail connection angles and see what works and what causes it to fails.


Inobu   

[cteno4]

hmm im wondering if its those long trucks with 3 axles. the smaller leading wheels i could see more prone to jumping being pushed around more by the two larger wheel axle's wheel base. do those leading wheels have any sort of lateral play in them to let them float around some? wonder if they are meant to but have gotten stuck some. or also the gauge of the leading wheels might be just a tad to wide, squeezing them in just a tad might give it the lateral play not to be pushed off the rail when it hits the joints in the curves.

good luck

jeff

[Webskipper]

Yeah The Kato Track standard with coupler gauge (11-716) would say a lot as well.

[westfalen]

Funny you should mention it. My ED16's started derailing the same way yesterday on a club members layout (Unitrack). They've run a few hours on my T-TRAK modules at home without a hitch so I was thinking it might have been dodgy rail joints.

[VJM]

The front bogie floats around all over the place and seems to be very light, with almost no weight.  Doesn't seem to really have any rail-holding at all.

The same happens in both directions; the leading bogie just kinda jumps off at the join.  Not running on a layout, just a flat, single oval dining table setup.  Light engine, so no loading in terms of pushing or pulling. It doesn't derail when running at speed, but jumps off every time at relatively low speeds.  I've taken the wheel out and squeezed them in to reduce the back-to-back, but I think I need to go and get a check gauge.

[The_Ghan]

VJM,

1. Try using a couple of different pieces of track,

2. Try sanding the joint lightly with OOO wet-and dry, then clean the track,

Does it happen on every piece of curve? 

You mentioned that the joint doesn't feel too smooth, which is why I suggested the sanding.  Swapping the affected piece out might be the best solution as the part isn't all that expensive.  I know your layout is a dining table setup but if/when you eventually do set up something permanent you can always use that part and solder the joint, sand, and clean.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[cteno4]

if this is happening with any old combo of those curves on a loop on the table then i expect its an issue with those lead wheels and i fear you may never get it fixed thru the track joints. any little blip is going to make them jump.

its looking to me like it is some sort of a gauging issue on the lead wheels. unfortunately to really carefully play with this to test things out you really need a little axle gauging tool to push the wheels around on the axle very accurately to perhaps find a happy spot. it might be they need to run pushed in a bit from what standard gauging would be so that the flanges dont tend to catch any blips in the outside rail on a curve and thus ride up and over the rail.

it may need wheels with different sized flanges. are they pretty standard in their axle ends with other wheels sets you have on other cars? might try swapping some others in if they fit and see if they work to give you some more clues.

i just fear if this occurs at most curved joints on the table top you could be in or a lot of trouble trying to clean and weld all your joints well enough to prevent this with the current engine. also if its the only engine you have trouble with is it worth it to do major track work for that one engine. it may be, just posing the question before you take on larger measures with the track.

cheers

jeff

[keitaro]

If they are loose like in locos you need to close the gap a little between the wheels and the bottom of the model try a thin piece of card board then another layer till you find one which works for stopping the derailing but doesn't hinder the model from going up a slope either.

I did it on my steamer and i think west or mark did something similar to some of their steam locos can't remember when i read this but it was a good 6 months ago.

[VJM]

Bah.  Finally got some time to test again. Lightly filed at the track around the join and it didn't fix it.   

Turned the piece of track around and the problem went away. 

It was a bit of Kato 348 radius -> straight.  Turned the straight around.

Thanks for your help, everyone.