Layout idea - Help wanted!

[Sir Madog]

I ´ve got my hand on an old hollow core door, which had been cut down to 2 1/2´ by 6´- not a bad base for a new layout. I plan to put it on a frame with casters on the legs, so I can move it around (and make way, if I have to).

The only draw back at the moment is - I´ve run out of layout ideas. I have rummaged through my idea baskets, but I am not happy with what I found there.

Here are my givens & druthers.

Must fit on that door
Continuous running
Minimum radius 282 mm (should I use Kato Unitrack). Could be Peco code 55 track, as well.
Of course, Japanese themed
Steam is the focus, so the era is set somewhere in the early 1960´s
Maybe a "double-faced" concept One side having an urban setting, the other more rural
Curves should be hidden.
There should be space available for scenery - not only track, so an emphasis should be on scenery. I want a stage for my trains ...

Am I wanting too much? I am looking for an usual, but fascinating idea.

Help?

[bill937ca]

How about one side steam locomotive depot and the other side a multi-track station.

[Bernard]

Take a look at the 2 door layouts on the bottom of the page of this link:
http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm

You can always start with one of these as an idea an modify it.

[Webskipper]

How about an easy under 1% grade going up 3-4 laps crossing over to the other side, then descending?

At the top, you can have a town.

[bill937ca]

You may find some ideas in these links.

A Profile of Japanese Steam Locomotives

http://homepage3.nifty.com/EF57/index.html

Don`s Dreamworld

http://ddwngauge.homestead.com/Page1.html

http://ddwngauge.homestead.com/Page3.html

[cteno4]

there were a few interesting little layout ideas by someone a year or two back on the forum that had some fun hidden grades on them with one side a small town scene, river in the middle and other side country/mountain.

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

How about one side steam locomotive depot and the other side a multi-track station.

Second this.

[KenS]

Maybe a "double-faced" concept One side having an urban setting, the other more rural
Curves should be hidden.
There should be space available for scenery - not only track, so an emphasis should be on scenery. I want a stage for my trains ...

Am I wanting too much? I am looking for an usual, but fascinating idea.

I don't think you are.  And I like the two-sided idea.

How about an urban engine service facility/yard on one side where you can display trains and do switching, and a more scenic suburban/rural station on the other side where you can enjoy watching them run (with a freight track for setting out a car or two)?

You could hide the curves with tunnels on the suburban station side, and road overpasses on the urban yard side. That also leaves the two end areas as scenic areas without visible track (suburban houses, a temple scene, commercial district of city buildings, etc). And if you wanted, perhaps a point-to-point tram between the two ends (raised through the middle) on one side.

[The_Ghan]

Sir Madog,

Have you got one of Armstrong's books?  Really great steam layout ideas, especially with yards.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Sir Madog]

Thanks, guys!

I have a hard time to make up my mind as to what I really want. I know that I want to watch one or two steam trains run, have a station to stop and load/unload passengers, the minimum amount necessary for loco servicing and lots of "breathtaking scenery" - one side urban, one side rural (mountain).

Basically, a simple double track loop would serve the better part of my "wish list" - it´s the extras that I cannot come up with. The reason? Lack of space.

[DanMacK]

Here's something I came up with based on one of Mike's smaller plans.  The layout is divided into 2 areas with a backdrop.  Track used is Peco Code 55 sectional, so spacing is wide but it gives you an idea.  A large mountain gorge with double track bridge and a station with servicing facilities (mainly to show off a steam roster). 

The roundhouse butts against the backdrop and tracks extend under the mountain on the other side.  A building and a roadway overpass hide the tunnel entrances on the rural side.

Just a thought, but it seems to incorporate all you're looking for in the space alotted :)

[Sir Madog]

DanMack - that´s very close to what I have in my head! I can now start from there! Thanks!

[Sir Madog]

Played a little with my track planning tool and came up with this:



It is a simple double track oval with two faces. One is a suburban scene set in the early 1970´s. The tracks are a little lower than the surrounding scenery, the station building going across the tracks with stairs leading down to the platforms. The second scene is a mountain scenery, with the tracks crossing a bridge over a little stream.

The layout will be set on casters, so I can turn it and move it.

Need to think about it!

[bikkuri bahn]

Nice plan- I like how the curves are hidden, and the focus is on the straights, where the action/details exists.  The only thing I would add would be a very slight curve on the mountain scenery track (it makes the track seem longer than a tangent), but that requires flextrack.

[Sir Madog]

Introduced some slight changes, including adding scenery to the corners. The layout now has 4 faces ...



Starting to like it ... :)

[disturbman]

That's nice, if you can, you should leave yourself the opportunity to connect your minimodules to it like at the bottom left.

[Sir Madog]

Now that´s some idea - glad you said that!

[Sir Madog]

Last changes for the day!

Here it is, my little layout called the "Four Faces of Japan"!

[Bernard]

I like the change to rice fields.

[The_Ghan]

Bloody showoff!!!      

I love what you've come up with, especially the lazy meander through the rice paddys.  Here's a few tweeks:

1. You mentioned that the layout was going to be steam.  How about some steam handling facilities?  Perhaps a coal loader on the city side and a water refilling station on the farm side, which would probably just be a davit and hose affair;

2. I suggest moving the ends of your walls just a couple of inches away from the corners of the table.  It creates a messy junction;

3. With four "faces" you could also have the four "seasons".  Eg: winter in the city, spring at the lake, summer on the farms and autumn at the temple ... in my opinion temples always look best in autumn.  The lake scene is small enough that you could throw in a grove of cherry blossoms with a young couple out for a romantic picnic under.

Madog, your graphics skills are pretty good too ... what software did you use to make that layout?

Just my thoughts!

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Sir Madog]

I am using an old, el cheapo version of WinRail to do most of the work, export the file as a jpeg into MSPaint to enhance it a little - that´s all.

WinRail has a graphics feature which allows you to draw lines, boxes etc. With a little exercise you can draw things like those:







Takes a little patience, though.

[Martijn Meerts]

Great, now I feel like building a small layout with 4 seasons =)

[The_Ghan]

Great, now I feel like building a small layout with 4 seasons =)

Yeah Martijn, that was probably my one good idea for 2012 ... and I've used it up already!!  I'm thinking to do one myself, but I'm in the middle of a big project as it is.

I'm just waiting for Madog to churn out more fabulous scenery and then pretend it was no big deal.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Martijn Meerts]

I have major difficulties designing my big layout.. Lots of rough ideas, but no idea about the details =)

A small layout with 4 seasons could be a nice in-betweener ..

[Sir Madog]

Martijn,

it´d be a pleasure for me to help you with designing your layout.

I need a drawing of  your train room, and some hints towards what you would like to have included. and, of course, which track system you will employ.

[Martijn Meerts]

Ullrich, there's a thread here: http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,5159.0.html

The measurements aren't 100% correct anymore, the table is going to be about 40cm shorter because of a slanting roof on 1 side of the room.

Going for a large station (16 car trains :)) in a city setting and a smaller, main-line station (where expresses don't stop), with a few local/urban stops here and there. The city should also have a tram running though it. There's also going to be a large (removable) hidden storage yard, and hopefully a steam servicing area.

I'm re-drawing the large station right now, since I have some fairly specific ideas for interesting movement of trains there, but that's really also the only area I have specific ideas for ;)


Using Peco code 55 for the train tracks, probably Tomix for the tram tracks, the whole lot will be DCC and computer controlled.

[Mr Frosty]

I would remove the corner dividers and just leep the front/back one.

Use scenic elements; hills, overpass, tunnels etc to transition from one scene to the next.

[The_Ghan]

Madog,

If you don't mind, I might get you to review my design in coming weeks.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Sir Madog]

Madog,

If you don't mind, I might get you to review my design in coming weeks.

Cheers

The_Ghan

Your are welcome!

I again changed a few things, incorporating some of the ideas I got from you guys. The design is now entering the final stage - hopefully.

Here it is:



Getting to like it more and more!

[Mr Frosty]

Thats much better.

[ease]

Just a small suggestion.... on your far right you have a curved bridge.... since your using uni-track (as I am)... you might consider "transforming" curved viaduct uni-track into a curved bridge.... someone here suggested it to me and it works great.... g-luck

[marknewton]

I would remove the corner dividers and just leep the front/back one.

I quite like the idea of the corner dividers, so I would keep them.

Cheers,

Mark.

[The_Ghan]

Tops!  Tops!  Tops!

I agree with Mark.  Keep the corner dividers.  I'm thinking they should be quite tall and support some overhead lighting.  The background poster scenery could really make this layout a winner.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Sir Madog]

Just a small suggestion.... on your far right you have a curved bridge.... since your using uni-track (as I am)... you might consider "transforming" curved viaduct uni-track into a curved bridge.... someone here suggested it to me and it works great.... g-luck

How did you do that? Any pictures?

[Mudkip Orange]

Why does every track plan always have that same circa-1992 deodorant spokesman standing there with a handheld throttle?

It's not realistic, because:
(i) we're all fatter than that, and/or else have less hair.
(ii) the people that (i) doesn't apply to would never be caught dead wearing a sweater over a collared shirt.

[ease]

Sir M.

Here is a pict of the my uni-track curved viaduct being used as a plate girder bridge... It still needs green paint but so far....

I had to groove the surrounding pink foam to accomodate the deep V in the bottom of the viaduct (so that it sits flush). This lead to the clearance from the top of the lower track blue engine to the bottom of the deep V being very tight. It fits just barely.

I may dremel grind off the deep V for more clearance below.... but I have bigger mountains to climb or um build first...

my 2nd pict shows the  "deep V" below the viaduct (that i may remove)

[Sir Madog]

Why does every track plan always have that same circa-1992 deodorant spokesman standing there with a handheld throttle?

It's not realistic, because:
(i) we're all fatter than that, and/or else have less hair.
(ii) the people that (i) doesn't apply to would never be caught dead wearing a sweater over a collared shirt.

... because I scanned that guy from a Model Railroader page and put him in - just to give me an indication of the size of the layout. And it´s not me in me younger days!

[The_Ghan]

I like that bloke in the picture ... it does give a sense of scale.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Mr Frosty]

I like that bloke in the picture ... it does give a sense of scale.

Cheers

The_Ghan

He appears to be about 3 foot across the shoulders.

[The_Ghan]

I like that bloke in the picture ... it does give a sense of scale.

Cheers

The_Ghan

He appears to be about 3 foot across the shoulders.

No Frosty, you misread the bar scale.  They are ¹/₂ foot squares.  The layout is only 6 foot long.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Mr Frosty]

Oops. 

[Sir Madog]

For the time being, I´ll leave the plan as it is. I will do some research on buildings and other bric-a-brac to get a good picture of what is waiting for me in financial terms. I am running on a really tight budget, which does not mean I won´t be going for it!

[The_Ghan]

What's to change Madog ... that layout is perfect.

Can I expect your usual spectacular standard of scenery modelling sometime soon?

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Sir Madog]

What's to change Madog ... that layout is perfect.

Can I expect your usual spectacular standard of scenery modelling sometime soon?

Cheers

The_Ghan

Sometime - yes, soon - I guess, no!

I am out of a job for three years now and living off welfare is no fun. I was able to do some model railroading thanks a generous gift from some friends in the US, who sent me a big box with all the goodies I needed.

I have turned in more than 1,500 applications in the past three years, but the answers I get all state either too old or overqualified... big sigh. My wife and I are seriously thinking of leaving this country to more friendly skies, such as Australia, NZ or Canada, but how to find a job there? As a 56 year old ex-CEO/CFO things ain´t easy.

[rpierce000]

I would only add one thing, some sort of equipment shed, farmer's house, some presence of people around the rice paddies.

Remember that temples often have paths up to them that have Tori (gates) on them. This is a fun detail and the path will help you emphasize the hill if you want to.

I do not know enough about Japanese steam, but does he need an ash pit over by the rest of the servicing area?

Bob

[Sir Madog]

Bob,

it is those little details that make or break the character of a layout - thanks for the for the hint!

An ashpit in the steam engine servicing area would be something, but as I plan on using Unitrack I would not know how to incorporate one.

[bill937ca]

Both Kato and Tomytec offer a steam engine service facility set.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10028635

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10149723

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10149724

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steam-Engine-Facility-Water-Coal-Tower-Tomytec-Komono-081-1-150-N-scale-/360394728856?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53e9332598

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steam-Engine-Facility-Water-Coal-Tower-B-Tomytec-Komono-082-1-150-N-scale-/120780657037?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c1f16918d

[marknewton]

Bob is right, an ashpit is an integral part of any steam shed, but none of the Kato or Tomix sets actually provide one. I'm really not familiar with Unitrack, so I don't know how easily it could be done, but you basically need to cut away enough sleepers between the rails to add a pit of your chosen size. I gather that Unitrack has a fairly high ballasted base? That could complicate matters a bit, as track in an engine depot is almost always buried in the ground, much like tramway track. You rarely see neatly ballasted track within an engine shed.

One way around the problem would be to use this Peco kit with their track within the depot area.

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3311&P_ID=16861

Cheers,

Mark.

[disturbman]

I think Fleischmann has some and that it should be possible to link Unitrack to Fleischmann with the Unijoiner track piece. Can't be sure but I think it has been done somewhere. Maybe at Quinntopia.

[Sir Madog]

Actually, it should be fairly easy to join the Peco inspection pit to the Kato track. Both is code 80, so I think all I would have to do is to pull the Unijoiner off the Kato track and substitute it with regular rail joiners.