Looking for German Steam Loco at Lake Biwa

[germansteam]

Hello Railfans,

I´m from Germany and I´m searching a German steam loco, which was photographed
~1979 on a railwaybridge in a leisure park in Kyodo.
The european cabs were used as the "Orient Express" hotel.
Loco should be 52.2436, which was used in Austria after the second world war.

Is there any information about this loco? Maybe some photos?
Best regards
from Germany
Germansteam

[The_Ghan]

2-10-0 Bugger me!!!  Goes well in a straight line !!!

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Eisenbahn]

Is Kyodo just  the German spelling of Kyoto or is Kyodo a different city?

The mountains depicted in the photo are similar to those in Kyoto. I wondered if this 2-10-0 loco is now in the Umekoji Steam Loco Museum in Kyoto?

There will probably be a newspaper photo archive for Kyoto for 1979 which will confirm the Amusement Park's location. The photo itself may be a regular JR Viaduct in Kyoto and not the amusement park itself. The train itself may have been a separate business functioning as a type of hotel associated with the amusement park, in which case a tourism story in a newspaper may track down the owner.

Perhaps some forum members will recognize the large modern long building in the left background of the photo.

cheers.....Eisenbahn

[marknewton]

2-10-0 Bugger me!!!  Goes well in a straight line !!!

Ghan, they go well around curves, too. These engines had a Krauss-Helmholtz articulated leading truck:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krauss-Helmholtz_bogie

I've had a play on a couple of these locos over the years, they ride surprisingly well. Likewise the 610mm/2' gauge NG15 2-8-2s of the South African Railways. There's two of these engines in Australia, at Whiteman Park in Perth.

Cheers,

Mark.

EDIT: If you think a 10-coupled engine might not like curves, how about the various 12-coupled steam engines that were built? 

[marknewton]

According to the only reference I could find, 52.2436 was sent to Japan in 1977 and displayed as a tourist attraction in front of the Hotel Biwasse in Kyoto. Apparently the loco and cars were subsequently scrapped, although I cannot confirm this.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Eisenbahn]

Yes, it looks like it went to Kyoto. Two websites have it at the Biwasse Hotel in Kyoto, www.damplok.at and www.steamlocomotive.info .

Another website ( www.hanomag-henschel.net ) has an entry for  a BR52 made in 1943 at the Biwasse Hotel and the next line has the same locomotive at "Denkmal, Kyotdo Park, Kobe".   Denkmal is just the German word for  memorial, as in a statue in a park etc.  So perhaps this loco is a solo exhibit in a park in Kobe. I looked for a Kyoto Park in Kobe but couldnt find one.
Perhaps a forum member will know parks in Kobe, even if by another name, that has a 2-10-0 in it.

cheers.....Eisenbahn

[westfalen]

It would be interesting to track down if it still exists. It's probably not at Umekoji, I've been there twice and an Austrian 2-10-0 is something that would stick in my memory.

I wonder if the passenger cars are still around? Maybe some farmer on the outskirts of Kyoto has a fancy chicken coop.

[germansteam]

Hello together...

Thanks for your reactions..

There is no Idea, which location is the right one.
"Kyoto Omiya Traffic Park", Biwassee Hotel, Kyodo...
I think, nobody knows the location of the foto from 1979...

But I think a european steam loco in Japan should be known by our japanese friends?

I think, the bridge isn´t original japanese location, because a 1435mm loco wouldn´t fit on 1067mm rails..

I hope, someone here´s able to locate the foto....

Best regards
Germansteam

[germansteam]

Hello...

I´ve found a newspaper article, telling us about lake Biwa...

Regards
Germansteam

The Pittsburgh Press, 8.January 1978

Orient Express Chugging Again As Japan Hotel
TOKYO - Part of the world-famous Orient Express train, which fell victim to airliners after a Century of Service last May,
has rolled back to Life in Japan as a hotel.
Its owner says the "International Hotel" is a smash hit.
Yasaburo Kinoshite, the Japanese hotel Operator and the President of the Marutarna Kanko Co., said the new hotel has been packed
to it´s capacity since it opened Jan. 1.1978
He said he bought the eight sleepers last ycar. One coach cost him 10 million Yen ($41.600).
The time-honored coaches were kept intact and arranged to appear as if they were running on a track powered by a German-made E-52 steam locomotive,
which he also bought last year from Austria. The hotel lies along the scenic Lake Biwa in central Japan.
The now defunctt Orient Express became internationally known after Ihe late British writer Agatha Christie wrote her bestseller
detective novel "Murder on The Orient Express." The old train also chugged in a James Bond movie, "From Russia With Love"

[Eisenbahn]

1.If the  photograph you posted on the forum was taken in Kyoto after c. 1978, then the curator of the Umekoji Steam Locomotive Museum (opened 1972) in Kyoto would know about your train and what happened to it or perhaps one of his curatorial staff would.  In which case a letter to the curator at that museum might provide further information for you. Or Kyoto newspaper stories may provide a clue to the trains fate.
2. Where did "Kyoto Omiya Traffic Park" come from? Omiya is both a street name, station name and an area in the downtown business area of Kyoto. Omiya Street and Shijo Street form a main intersection in Kyoto.
3. Hotel Biwasse came from a couple of rail website lists. Perhaps the spelling is wrong.  You could ask the websites where they got their information from.There is a town Biwase in Japan that has hotels. Perhaps the train has some connection to that.
4. the www.hanomag-henschel.net website has two locations as per my previous post 1. Hotel Biwasse and 2. Denkmal , Kyotdo Park in Kobe. The locomotive number 27604 was its production number at the Henschel Factory in Kassel in 1943. DR 52 2436 was its German Imperial railways number when in service. Could you contact the owner of that website to ask where he got that information from?
5. Japan uses many rail guages.
cheers......Eisenbahn

[westfalen]

That looks like quite a size resort complex the train is part of, someone somewhere must know more about it and what became of it.

BTW, a little OT, but the Pittsburgh Press article contains a common mistake about the Orient Express, it didn't fall victim to airlines in the 70's, I rode the 'real' Orient Express overnight from Vienna to Strasbourg in 2008 not long before it was finally discontinued, thanks just as much to the TGV as anything else.

[germansteam]

Hi!

Only german visitors here?
;-)

OK, "Biwasse" is Lake Biwa" near Kyoto..

Here´s a japanese Web site with a short timeline regarding the location, but no information about the train..

http://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/%E3%83%91%E3%83%A9%E3%83%80%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B9

(It is called Koyo Paradise hereinafter.)


The previous name of this complex was The Koyo Paradise.

The complex started its service in 1966 as the Koyo Paradise.

(The amusement park opened as Koyo Paradise in 1966.)

Later, the name was changed to the Biwa-ko Lake Spa Resort Koyo Paradise.

The facilities are renovated and re-opened as the Biwa-ko Paradise in 1991.

(Later its name was changed to 'Biwako Paradise,' but it closed down in December 1998.)

Biwa-ko Lake Paradise is a complex including recreational and amusement park facilities with a spa resort (health center), established next to the former Biwa-ko Lake Spa Resort
(the Hotel Koyo (currently the "Ryotei Koyo") located in Otsu City, Shiga Prefecture).

The Marutama Tourism Co. Ltd., (Kyoto City) the previous management and operation body of the "Koyo Paradise" and the "Ryotei Koyo," went into bankruptcy on March 1, 2006 for the
financial difficulties caused by the redevelopment of the Ryotei Koyo and the Koyo Paradise.In 1978, Koyo Paradise adjacent to Hotel Koyo opened 'Hotel Orient Express,' which was a nine-car train consisting of a steam locomotive made in Germany and eight sleeping railroad cars made by
International Sleeping-Car Company, on its property.[/i]

Ryotei Hotel does still exist:
http://japanhotel.net/Hotel.aspx?ID=763

Loco is elsewhre, but not at this lake!

Regards
Germansteam

[Darklighter]

I found more pictures by searching for ホテル・オリエント・エクスプレス びわ湖 (Hotel Orient Express Biwa Lake) and 紅葉パラダイス (Momiji Paradise):
http://jijiganko.web.fc2.com/sub2112.htm
http://oimactaka.blog.hobidas.com/archives/article/101524.html
There's even a commercial: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OAJQdCbaFvU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/OAJQdCbaFvU</a>

[germansteam]

Denkmal , Kyotdo Park in Kobe

Hello!

I´ve found a website:   http://www.kobe-park.or.jp
But only jaüpanese..
;-)

Regards
Germansteam

[Eisenbahn]

Darklighter...Excellent colour photos and video!
We now know for certain that the Amusement Park with the DR52 was at Otsu City and that the mountains at the back of the photos were the ones between Kyoto City and Otsu City , which are about 11 kilometers apart. We dont yet know what year the train was removed or where it went.
If Forum members dont come up with something, then a letter to the Umekoji Steam Locomotive Museum in Kyoto should solve the puzzle. Their fax number is on their website. Even thought the DR52 is not at their museum, the staff will have been out to look at the DR52 and photograph it and will know when & where it went. Perhaps the new owners of the Ryoteo Koyo Hotel in Otsu City would know.

You would think that the carriages would have been worth something and not scrapped. They looked quite good in Darklighter's more recent photos. Perhaps the Orient Express company knows their fate.

Germansteam....good luck in your quest to find DR52-2436.
cheers......Eisenbahn

[marknewton]

I wondered if this 2-10-0 loco is now in the Umekoji Steam Loco Museum in Kyoto?

No, it's definitely not there. I rather suspect the thing's been scrapped.

Cheers,

Mark.

[ISO8]

Is there any information about this loco? Maybe some photos?

Hi all,
unfortunately they had been all scraped,
according to Wikipedia (only Japanese edition)
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%B3%E3%82%8F%E6%B9%96%E3%83%91%E3%83%A9%E3%83%80%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B9
...OMG.

kind Regards,
ISO8

[germansteam]

Hallo Iso8,

thanks for your information.
Google translator tells about closing the hotel 1998, but I can´t find any information about the train.
Is there any information about the year, the train was scrapped?

Thaks a lot!

Germansteam