Super View Odoriko 415 Series Pretty Worn Out

[gmat]

Have noticed that the finish on some of these trains is getting pretty ratty looking. How much longer will they be around, I wonder.























The hostess at the head of the train stepped in when she thought I was going to shoot her photo. Sorry to be a bother.

I'm trying to replace all the photos lost on 3/11.

Best wishes,
Grant

[miyakoji]

nice pictures, gmat.  I'm a little surprised, too, that JRE hasn't given these things a fresh coat of paint. It would look better and provide some protection to prevent further rust.  A quick scan of the wikipedia pages on the 251 series doesn't reveal any mention of replacement.  Like the 351 series used on the Super Azusa service, these are not post-209 series disposable cars.  I wouldn't think they're trying to hurry the deterioration along, but...

btw gmat I think these are 251 series

[westfalen]

The Super View Odoriko was one of the first Japanese trains I rode in 1990 so it's sad to see them running in such a condition even though they are over 20 years old, it's not what you expect in Japan. Maybe it's time for JR East to repaint one in original colors.

[angusmclean]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xuGwmu48Uoo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/xuGwmu48Uoo</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/iUF6JkKIFcE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/iUF6JkKIFcE</a>

These two short vids of the 251's are good watching :))

Angus

[gmat]

Thanks Miyakoji for the info. I didn't check before typing. I just think of them as Super View Odoriko.

Best wishes,
Grant

[disturbman]

I don't remember ever seeing trains in such an obvious state of "we don't care" in Japan. And it's not as if this train was a local train in a remote place...

[miyakoji]

I don't remember ever seeing trains in such an obvious state of "we don't care" in Japan. And it's not as if this train was a local train in a remote place...

Yeah, that seems like a good way to put it.  I don't think they were this bad, but the old N'EX 253 series looked pretty tired if you got up close to them.  I've also seen pictures of rough looking E217s on the Yokosuka/Sobu Rapid Line.  Is it possible that JR East has these scheduled so tightly that they don't bring them in if the problems are only cosmetic?

[KenS]

According to wikipedia there's only four sets of the SVO 251s, so they probably don't get much downtime.  And they were just refurb'd back in '02-'04 apparently, so it's a bit early for a repaint.

That aside, it is very surprising to see this level of disregard for the appearance of a JRE limited express.  Perhaps because these are painted steel, and JRE's trains today are mostly stainless steel and aluminum, they're not really set up for the kind of hands-on maintenance required to keep a fully-painted train looking good.

[bikkuri bahn]

The kiha 183's here in Hokkaido are pretty tatty looking in some places, albeit they're old and the climate is severe.  Regular steel bodies are relatively maintenance intensive vs. stainless steel, a few cosmetic rust spots and paint chipping may not be addressed until the scheduled general overhaul.

[disturbman]

4 sets?!... It almost doesn't make sense to maintain and operate such a small fleet.

Anyhow, the state of those trains (if it's more than just on this Serie) shows us something. JR East is either over-using it's train and/or it has decided to cut costs on some "minor" details (not like the DB in Berlin who cut it on technical maintenance of the S-Bahn).

As far as I remember, the older rolling stock of JR Kyushu and JR Central looked old and battered but I don't remember seeing patches of rust showing.

[westfalen]

4 sets?!... It almost doesn't make sense to maintain and operate such a small fleet.

Queensland Rail have not only have just two six car electric Tilt Train sets but maintain several hundred kilometers of catenary used only by those two sets once a day.

In my Japanese vacation thread I posted photos I took of JR Kyushu 787's with stick on patches covering rust spots, maybe in the haste to replace older types they are not getting the shop time they need.

[bill937ca]

4 sets?!... It almost doesn't make sense to maintain and operate such a small fleet.

I think you will find that many of the limited express sets were built in similar small quantities. Sunrise Express and Series 371 come to mind.

[miyakoji]

I think you will find that many of the limited express sets were built in similar small quantities. Sunrise Express and Series 371 come to mind.

Good examples, Bill.  The Sunrise Express rolling stock, series 285, totals 35 cars, in 5 sets of 7.  The 371 series, which I at first confused with the 373, exists as a single 7-car set!  According to wikipedia, it will be taken off Asagiri tokkyu service in March 2012 and then used as a charter train starting in Autumn.

[The_Ghan]

4 sets?!... It almost doesn't make sense to maintain and operate such a small fleet.

Queensland Rail have not only have just two six car electric Tilt Train sets but maintain several hundred kilometers of catenary used only by those two sets once a day.

In my Japanese vacation thread I posted photos I took of JR Kyushu 787's with stick on patches covering rust spots, maybe in the haste to replace older types they are not getting the shop time they need.

How much local time was spent on designing those two consists west?

Cheers

The_Ghan

[bill937ca]

Many of these trains date from the 1990s and have reached a mid-life point. Maybe the reality of all these unique trains is setting in and don`t forget there are many Joyful trains also that are single unit stand-alone.

[westfalen]

4 sets?!... It almost doesn't make sense to maintain and operate such a small fleet.

Queensland Rail have not only have just two six car electric Tilt Train sets but maintain several hundred kilometers of catenary used only by those two sets once a day.

In my Japanese vacation thread I posted photos I took of JR Kyushu 787's with stick on patches covering rust spots, maybe in the haste to replace older types they are not getting the shop time they need.

How much local time was spent on designing those two consists west?

Cheers

The_Ghan

Although they were loosely based on the JR Shikoku 8000 series there was a fair bit of redesign work done by Walkers in Maryborough to adapt them to local standards and conditions, during a tour of the plant when they were under construction we were told the tilt mechanism for the pantographs was an entirely Walkers design.

[disturbman]

Two train sets, a special catenary?... Economically speaking, this is nuts.

To come back to the 251 Series. I don't know how much these trains have in common with others but having to operate such a small sized fleet normally have a great impact on maintenance costs.

And I still can't believe that they let train with rusty patches... Even in (Western Europe) I don't remember the last time I have seen a train with such a stain.

By the way, ere Japanese trains laminated or painted?

[KenS]

Many of these trains date from the 1990s and have reached a mid-life point. Maybe the reality of all these unique trains is setting in and don`t forget there are many Joyful trains also that are single unit stand-alone.

I think the important distinction is that most (all?) of the self-propelled Joyful trains were one-off rebuilds of surplus 485 or similar stock, primarily for charter use, while the limited express trains really are small production runs intended to suit the specific needs of some route. Some of those were fairly large (e.g., the E653 Fresh Hitachi is a dozen trains and 72 cars) but others could be only a few trains (e.g., the 255 Boso View Express is 5 trains and 45 cars).  The SVO, with 4 sets and 40 cars is small, but not abnormally so.

While there is a cost to all that custom design, it's highly likely that most of the subsystems on the newer trains are standard types, and some of the trains are built on standard platforms (e.g., Hitachi's A-Train, used for three different limited express designs, and at least fifteen other commuter/subway EMUs).

[westfalen]

Two train sets, a special catenary?... Economically speaking, this is nuts.

To come back to the 251 Series. I don't know how much these trains have in common with others but having to operate such a small sized fleet normally have a great impact on maintenance costs.

And I still can't believe that they let train with rusty patches... Even in (Western Europe) I don't remember the last time I have seen a train with such a stain.

By the way, ere Japanese trains laminated or painted?

Since the 3900 class electric locos that worked most freight and passenger trains from Brisbane to Rockhampton were sent north to the coalfields and replaced by diesels the only trains using the 356km of electrification between Gympie North and Gladstone are the Tilt Trains, I can't understand it either.

Here are my pics of patched up 787's for those who missed them, it's odd enough in Japan that I lifted my camera up to take photos.

[bill937ca]

The Series 251 trains are getting a lot of attention these days. It was on the cover of 01/2012 Japan Railfan Magazine number 609.  Blue trains and the Meitetsu Panorama cars were also on the cover before their demise.  Railfans are taping the 251 more often.  Many properties known for very good maintenance stop all minor repairs when a decision is made to retire the equipment.

The Super View Odoriko is a tourist oriented service like Odakyu`s Romancecar serivice.  These services seem to be the hardest hit by the post earthquake traffic fallout.

Which makes me wonder if the Series 251 will gone with the schedule change of March 17, 2012.  

[The_Ghan]

Two train sets, a special catenary?... Economically speaking, this is nuts.

I can only agree with you there.  I don't know why we keep reinventing the wheel when it comes to trains here in Australia.

Cheers

The_Ghan

[westfalen]

Two train sets, a special catenary?... Economically speaking, this is nuts.

I can only agree with you there.  I don't know why we keep reinventing the wheel when it comes to trains here in Australia.

Cheers

The_Ghan

The catenary is no different to what is used in the Brisbane suburban area, what I meant was that the two Tilt Trains are the only trains that use it between Gympie North and Gladstone. Still nuts though.

[The_Ghan]

Got it west,

You mean the pantos are a Walkers stock design, right?

Cheers

The_Ghan

[westfalen]

Got it west,

You mean the pantos are a Walkers stock design, right?

Cheers

The_Ghan

If I remember the explanation by the Walkers employee correctly the mechanism that tilts the pantograph (or to be more precise keeps the pantograph level while the train tilts) was redesigned because they didn't believe the Japanese design was robust enough.

[The_Ghan]

Nice excuse for a contract variation .. 

Cheers

The_Ghan