World kougei deki kit

[keitaro]

So i got bored with doing the main layout since it's just detail left now and jumped to this since the monorail is on the back burner for a while.

anyway regardles of this being such a small model kit it's still really hard.

The solder is hard to get sticking to the brass and the kit in general is just hard to assemble due to small size.

So far i have made the motor unit and soldered a few pieces of the body.

The motor now runs fine after some suggestions from Martijn!! however it's not very switch friendly.

heres some pics of my progress i will probably buy some flux soon as this is getting down to the hard parts.

BTW i suck at soldering.....

[Martijn Meerts]

It's probably more difficult than the bigger trains, just because it's so small =)

[cteno4]

keitaro,

ohh looks like fun! being the boy with the biggest fingers in the room usually i tend to like the tiniest stuff!

does the chassis run better thru switches when the shell is on it? thinking the added weight may help it some. many times these little guys are so light the hop very easily, but not a lot of room to add much in the way of weights!

did you wash the brass before soldering? sometimes they have an oily film on them that makes the flux not get to the metal well. soap and water and then dab dry and just splash some isopropanol over it and let it air dry. even finger grease could affect soldering tiny parts.

are you using some paint or flux or just resin core solder? might try a resin pen to paint on some little dabs of flux where you want your solder joint. or get the gel flux and use a tiny brush tip (like those cheapo fingernail brushes) to put it on carefully at your joints. a little flux really works wonders to direct the joint and get a more even solder flow in the joint. chop up some of the extra brass and experiment some. remember to wash it well afterwards to get rid of excess flux before painting.

making me want to work on some of my etched metal stuff! but i have to finish other half done projects before starting more, its the new new years resolution!

jeff

[keitaro]

Hey nah the weight doesnt work.

It gets stuck on the bits with plastic on one half the wheels are the likely culprit.

Its similar to the TGW deki i actually made that run great now. some filing of the axel and the hole it pins through makes it good. Now the issur on the tgw is the cog/gear that hits the motor shaft rubs on the ballast.

2 possible fixes reduce the ballast as only certain spots rub.

Or run on track with no ballast and minimum switches would be good for a mini diorama.

After my modification if you run the tgw on a track with no ballast and no switches it runs well now. It wont run on tram track.

[JRF-1935]

Keitaro
  Good Luck!  Soldering Brass in any scale sucks, unless you have a very expensive resistance solderer.
Rich C

[Martijn Meerts]

Got my Deki kit in yesterday, bloody hell it's small =)

Of course, small means less brass to heat up, which should mean easier to solder (compared to the bigger models anyway).


Keitaro, another fix for the running problems is to use electrofrog turnouts. They don't have the huge bits of plastic that most other turnouts have :) I'll give it a go on some Peco track at some point.

[keitaro]

progress.

i'm getting a bit better at soldering really worth getting this kit learning alot along the way.

i "could" finish tommorow night...

[westfalen]

You've got more courage than I have. I did see some pre-assembled World Kougei locos in Japanese hobby shops, they were expensive, but when you look at the work that goes into them...

[Martijn Meerts]

It's starting to come together nicely :)

[JRF-1935]

Very Nice Keitaro !
  Seems you've mastered some soldering techniques for N scale - please share
Rich c

[keitaro]

Was lucky enough to get 20 mins in today.

Attached some detail parts and finished the pantograph.

Just need to solder the pantograph on to the top piece.

After this just need to add the coupler bit and some details.

Then file the solder and paint...

[The_Ghan]

Keitaro,

It looks like you've built it backwards .... lol ... 

Cheers

The_Ghan

[Bernard]

I didn't realize how small it was until I saw it in your hand.....I would need a jeweler's loop to work on that train. Do you set it up in a jig with clamps when you solder? After this project soldering feeder wires to a track will be a breeze!

[keitaro]

Keitaro,

It looks like you've built it backwards .... lol ... 

Cheers

The_Ghan

Actually the piece at the front that looks like a ladder with a bar through it is on the opposite side on the instructions .... i still cannot work out how it's on the opposite side as there is no otherway to bend the metal??

really weird i still can't work out where i went wrong with that.

notice the part A 1-5 is on the left in instructions but on mine on the right?

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10121866z/70/1

thing is the base for this is all one piece you have to bend and it only bends the one way so i sat there for ages trying to work out why it's on the opposite side.

[keitaro]

I didn't realize how small it was until I saw it in your hand.....I would need a jeweler's loop to work on that train. Do you set it up in a jig with clamps when you solder? After this project soldering feeder wires to a track will be a breeze!

it is tiny wait till you get to soldering in the tiny pieces of detail such as A1-3 on the link i posted above it was a killer soldering that to the inside as the slightest bump knocks it out.

I have not used any clamps or anything all by hand. The trick is to cut a tiny piece of solder sit it right where you need to solder and apply the tip to it, quick touch then done in under a few seconds.

At least thats how i've been doing it. the outer areas are much easier though

[cteno4]

another trick is to pre-tin both pieces with a tad of flux and then put them together and just touch them with a nicely tinned iron and they will join very quickly. this way you can hold little parts to pre-tin them with locking tweezers and use both hands for soldering. you can clean off excess on either part before joining them as well to keep excess solder to a minimum.

jeff

[keitaro]

now i just have to pray for a nice little loco kit to come out in N and not narrow N or narrow HO

[Martijn Meerts]

I think pre-tinning is definitely the way to go for the larger parts. The smaller detail parts can easily be glued on.

I still want to experiment just using epoxy for an entire kit though. The bonds should be plenty strong enough and it can be used as a filler where needed as well.

[Nick_Burman]

So i got bored with doing the main layout since it's just detail left now and jumped to this since the monorail is on the back burner for a while.

anyway regardles of this being such a small model kit it's still really hard.

The solder is hard to get sticking to the brass and the kit in general is just hard to assemble due to small size.

So far i have made the motor unit and soldered a few pieces of the body.

The motor now runs fine after some suggestions from Martijn!! however it's not very switch friendly.

heres some pics of my progress i will probably buy some flux soon as this is getting down to the hard parts.

BTW i suck at soldering.....

Don't forget to slap a ton of weight (auto tyre balancing weights will do) onto it as you assemble it. Going DCC will also help, a Lenz Gold Mini decoder will help the loco sail through those sticky spots.

Cheers NB

[Martijn Meerts]

There's no room for additional weight.. There might not even be room for a decoder ;)

Wheel balancing weight are probably bigger than the loco itself 

[keitaro]

There is room for 4.5mm x 3mm x 2mm height

[cteno4]

for tiny places like this lead shot works well. the tiny stuff will pack in pretty densely then trying to file down a chunk to fit your volume and then get it into the odd shaped space. you can just dot on good old white glue onto the pile to hold it all in place. its easy to pop out then later if needed. just make sure its spread evenly to balance on your centerline. every microgram will help on this little goober.

jeff

[keitaro]

i finished the model needs painting now.

alas the motor works out side of body but not inside i think the solder for the wires rubs on the shell and shorts???

so i need to pull it out again and maybe tape over the soldering for wires and retry.

[The_Ghan]

Check also that the pickups are properly isolated.  I've had that problem before. 

Cheers

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

Yeah they are isolated i think its the wires.

It is a real tight fit to get it in i guess ill remove it and put some tape or rubber over it. just makes for a harder reinsert.

Once i got it running i will post a vid

[westfalen]

There's no room for additional weight.. There might not even be room for a decoder ;)

Wheel balancing weight are probably bigger than the loco itself  

If you really want a decoder you could do what my brother is thinking of doing with his Tsugawa deki for DCC after seeing my video of the Mitsui Miike Railway, have a battery car with a small decoder lying flat under a dummy load of batteries.

[keitaro]

There's no room for additional weight.. There might not even be room for a decoder ;)

Wheel balancing weight are probably bigger than the loco itself  

If you really want a decoder you could do what my brother is thinking of doing with his Tsugawa deki for DCC after seeing my video of the Mitsui Miike Railway, have a battery car with a small decoder lying flat under a dummy load of batteries.

great idea!

i pulled the bugger apart last night and put tape over and re soldered the wires etc but it still shorts in the shell.

I have come to the conculsion that i need to paint a thick coat of paint internally as this should stop the shell working as a pickup?

[cteno4]

Keitaro,

is perhaps one of the connections grounded to a larger metal part that then can connect to the chassis ground thru the shell?

sure its a short and not something just getting stuck when the chassis is in the shell?

or could it be shorting because when the chassis is in the shell two connections inside the chassis are getting pushed together and shorting?

painting the inside of the shell should do the trick, but will run the risk of any of the sharp bits that may be sticking out that were shorting might eventually scratch/wear thru the paint to eventually short again.

best of luck figuring it out. its one of those grrrr type things.

jeff

[keitaro]

the chasis is seperated via plastic washers so i know it's not shorting by solder or anything.

I know the shel rubs on both the metal block the pickup and the wires solder so i think it is hitting the body and shorting. I tried tape over the solder and it still shorted so i'm sure the chasis is the issue.

I will paint tonight and retry if i get a chance. I have to populate my 2 ginzas soon and the other tobu as the light kits are in transit here.

[cteno4]

keitaro,

if you want a tougher coating you might think of putting a thin coat of 2 part epoxy onto the outer exposed regions of the chassis parts that are hot with power. that stuff cures really tough. might be easier than trying to coat the interior of the shell.

paint may work for a while, but with vibration or more disassembles/reassemblies it might eventually rub through.

jeff

[keitaro]

For those interested i was thinking this could be modified to use powered catenary since the wires on motor are just below the roof one could drill small holes and make slight modifictaion to the catenary.

i have always been confused about putting the 2 wires onto the cantenary would some sort of change be needed to be made to stop shorting?

[cteno4]

well if you are talking of doing live catenary then you only run one wire to the catenary and the other goes to the track. usually both rails are wired together so you can flip the car around. then your wheel pickups are wired to one pole of the motor and the pantograph to the other motor pole and one pole of your power pack is wired to both rails and the other to the catenary.

live catenary is a bit of work to wire your catenary. also need to make spring loaded pantographs to keep the contact up on the catenary wire.

cheers

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Been working on my Deki a bit as well. Unfortunately I forgot to take pictures so far :)

I initially put the mechanism together to give it a test run, and it ran great. It was actually quite fun seeing a tiny thing like that whizz across the track, very hypnotic ;)

Once tested, I took out the wheels, masked off some bits and pieces, and airbrushed the chassis. I also started soldering the shell, which is really not easy at all. I've been using a Dremel micro-torch, since my soldering station isn't meant for this stuff. Using the torch definitely requires a bit of practice, but I'm starting to get the hang of it. Of course, the Deki, due to it being tiny, isn't the best model to start with :)

One problem with the shell being so small, it that it heats up fairly quick, and some soldered joints will melt again. I did get it together reasonably well in the end, there's a few cracks here and there, but a tiny bit of putty will fix that. The small detail parts I'll glue on.

It's quite fun working on the kits, but the instructions aren't always correct I've noticed. I've had time where they wanted me to tap thread using an M1.4 tap, but the hole was actually much bigger.. I'm starting to understand their instruction sheets a bit though, and they use a lot of common terms on all of them, which helps :)

What I still haven't figured out, is the couplers.. The kit includes a pair of rapido couplers, which are almost as big as the loco itself. As an alternative, I believe they mention a Micro Trains coupler, but I've never used them, and they're not likely to be compatible with either Kato or Tomix. Not sure yet what to do there.

[keitaro]

the rapido work fine.

the coupler can be a regular kato knucke you get.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10003621it fits a bit loose but it works. I'll snap a pic of mine tonight if i can.

Mine kept shorting so i am not using the motor but i will show you a pic.

I have half painted it....

For now the cantenary is not assembled who knows if i dig it out of one of the many unpacked boxes since moving i may as well fix up all the unassembled pieces.

[Martijn Meerts]

I haven't had the courage to run it with the shell on, there's too many globs of tin that need to be removed first 

[keitaro]

i don't have the tn on as i am using a motorised car behind it once i get around to it.

Heres a quick video of what i have done for now. needs better painting and decals plus finish the catenary.

I am leaving the front coupler off as i will not be using it. Also like you i will try add a led at the front.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WNoHti1RfOs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/WNoHti1RfOs</a>

[Martijn Meerts]

It looks good :)

I'm still not sure how to paint it. All black is obviously the easiest, but the black/red/cream version looks interesting as well. The biggest problem is getting the correct colors of course (something which is a problem for some of the other kits as well)

[keitaro]

the colours are on the instruction are they not?

i'll have to look. I'm just going for the regular black paint with the decals.

the black perfectly matches the black on realline models too.

edit* also i ordered the motor unit today, i was thinking of using a flatbed with some batteries or just a tarp coloured fabric tied over to look like hiding maintainance equipment.

Even maybe a wamu 50000 motorised. havn't decided.

[Martijn Meerts]

I have no idea if the colors are in the instructions actually. If they are, the question is whether they have their own range of paints, of if they list which colors to mix from a more popular brand of paint (Tamiya or, more likely, Gunze)

Obviously, they knew which paints to mix considering they also have the pre-painted models available :)

[keitaro]

I motorised a wamu 50000 and it now pushes the deki as a set the deki is missing it's weight so it derailed a bit easy on the bit of uneven track.

you can see the other not motorised wamu in the movie i have yet to but the detail on the bogies.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y61xrvQaYO0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Y61xrvQaYO0</a>