Fleischmann 9467 Interior Lighting

[Webskipper]

Is Fleischmann 9460 Interior Lighting really $25 per car?

Each set has the axle pickups so how does one get around that and use SMD or other types of LEDs?

http://www.fleischmann.de/uploads/tx_commerce/thumb_m8309_w560.jpg

[Martijn Meerts]

You can't get around having to buy the pickups unless you somehow manufacture them  yourself. None of the Fleischmann/Minitrix stuff I have comes with pickups pre-installed like Tomix/Kato/MicroAce do it, and in fact, the pickups in Fleischmann and Minitrix tend to make the cars run really bad..

And yes, they are that expensive ...

[Webskipper]

Run bad as in friction on the axles? Or flickering?

[Martijn Meerts]

Both, but the friction is the worst problem. It might have improved with newer cars, but the old ones are really bad.

[inobu]

Not enough surface contact which requiring higher tension on the axles it insure conductivity.

Not too sure about that concept.

Inobu






 


 


 

[Martijn Meerts]

The concept is terrible.. The Japanese coaches run so much smoother even with light compared to the European brands. I have some of the early Minitrix Orient Express cars with interior light. If you push the car, it'll move about 5cm before it comes to a halt. I can actually put them on a slope, and they won't roll down =)

Very effective brakes, those power pickup strips ;)

[Webskipper]

They put a wiper on each cab car wheel (Radkontakt= radial contact?) and then a copper pickup on each front axle for the decoder.  They don't roll very well.

My Japanese Bullets roll on my DCC program track so well that I have to chock the wheels to keep it still. Safety first.

I can communicate with the motor car decoder and no communication with the lighting decoders in the cab cars. Can someone recommend a site to troubleshoot these?

Lighting decoders are 6163-2 . I don't recognize the brand logo. Definitely DCC because the board in the manual is definitely a different configuration.

[inobu]

First step in troubleshooting is to isolate the the decoders.

Only the decoder on the track or placed on the programming track.

1. Test the (Light/LED) that wired on the decoder by placing battery (AA) 1.5V or something on the LED leads to verify it is good.

2. Next verify if the decoder is alive. Place the decoder on the track and it should flash on power up. The decoders normally flashes the LED light on power up.

if the LED flashes you know the decoder booted up.
if it failed then it is not powering up which means bad wiring or bad decoder. 

Being that this is a light decoder reset it to factory default which makes it 03

3. Next initiate a basic 03 read command.

if it fails you need to check the red/black rail leads to make sure the connections are good. This could corrupt the power/command allowing for boot up but corrupt the data sent to the decoder.

These are the basic factors in isolating your problem.

Inobu

 

[Webskipper]

The decoder lamps will illuminate when you first ask the zephyr to read the address or the CV. Then nothing. Lamps work on DC.

The zephyr always displays d nr (does not read (the decoder))

One cab car will work just fine on any address. The headlamps/taillamps just switch by rolling it in either direction without reversing power.

The other buzzes and maybe flashes at times. Otherwise it'll behave just fine.

Frustrating not knowing the brand.

[Webskipper]

The cab car lighting decoders are FMZ brand which means these were not made with nmra standards in mind and will only work with Fleischmann DCC controllers.

What has to done now is sever the traces on the board to the directional lighting and power those LEDs with a new lighting decoder.

Do I want a 4 function or 2 function FL?

[inobu]

That funny, I was just typing that it has to be a handshake issue. Which is the Protocol sequence.

If the decoder flashes that means that it is powered up.

The next step is the handshake which references your "does nothing" and the Zephyer "d nr."

This was a good exercise to fault isolation.

Phil, you are on your way to your DCCDA (Digital Command Control Decoder Associate) certification.

Inobu

I have no experience with Fleischmann stuff so I don't know which FL to use.



 

[Webskipper]

Still have 2 5 packs of FL4 so that's my weapon of choice.

Besides directional lighting, what tricks can we program?

All tail lamps on when parked?

When I get around to this project I'll be sure to post pics and cv values.

[Martijn Meerts]

FMZ isn't really a brand, it's a sort-of DCC system used by Fleischmann for a while. It was a multiple-train-control system, but not a full digital system.

It's somewhat similar to the Marklin Delta idea I guess.

[KenS]

The zephyr always displays d nr (does not read (the decoder))

A DCC programming track "reads" a CV by detecting current changes, since without something like RailCom or Transponding the actual data protocol is one-way (to the decoder).  The way this works is that the decoder modulates the power supply by quickly cutting in and releasing the load on the decoder to vary the current it draws, and the changes can be sensed by the command station monitoring its supply to the track.

A modern SMD-based lights-only decoder (like the Kato FL12 cab-car decoders) doesn't have enough of a load to make a detectable signal. Those decoders are write-only.

The Zephyr is further known to have some issues with it's programming track not working with some decoders, either because they create too much load (e.g., sound decoders) and need a booster (I have one of those, and it works well), or because the have too little.  In the latter case, some people have found that connecting a 1 kOhm resistor across the tracks in parallel with the decoder makes it work better.  I haven't tried that myself.

[Webskipper]

Thanks for that clarity.

So are we better off with a PR3 and an iPad?

I have a Kato DC and and new Zephyr for the test/program track in my tuff box so I can troubleshoot issues at the clubhouse or train museum.

[KenS]

So are we better off with a PR3 and an iPad?

How would you connect a PR3 to an iPad?  It needs USB and JMRI with a Mac as I understand it (I don't have a PR3 though).

An iPad is a very useful tool; I keep all the Digitrax manuals on mine in PDF, as well as using Safari to access my website's reference pages.  Very handy when I'm on my back under the layout trying to remember which wire I'm supposed to be looking at. But I don't know of a way to use it for decoder programming.

[Webskipper]

Oh I meant ipad3. :blush: