Kato Automatic Crossing Gate

[gr8tfuldead]

Why did Kato discontinue this item? Cost? I've always admired how this item operates. Does Tomix or Greenmax make a similar item?

[Webskipper]

Probably because it doesn't look like their new concrete color plastic and it didn't sell well for $300.  There was a double track adapter package for $99 each.

Kato 20-650

[KenS]

While this one is long gone, there's a new one in the works.

Tomix used to make one, the TCS Automatic Crossing Set (5555), but I haven't seen them available for sale. They were about US$200 when last available at Hobby Search. That's slightly less than Kato's was ($232).  You can find youtube videos of it in operation by searching on the part number. Although it's only a single gate on each side, rather than Kato's two (both are prototypical) I think I like the Tomix's operation better based on videos; I've never seen either in person.

Here's one:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/aOWwjr7jJco" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/aOWwjr7jJco</a>

And here's a Kato crossing for comparison:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/koWNf50PDqc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/koWNf50PDqc</a>

[westfalen]

It will be interesting to see the new Kato crossing when it comes out to see what, if any, improvements have been made. I'm hoping it will be DCC friendly and maybe a smaller mechanism so the base doesn't have to be so large.

A working level crossing, whether you model Japan or the U.S., is one of the most common things on the real railways but is not available in N scale.

[Mr Frosty]

I like the way the barriers move on the Tomix crossing. But the alarm bell would drive me mad after about 2 or 3 trains.

[nik_n_dad]

A working level crossing, whether you model Japan or the U.S., is one of the most common things on the real railways but is not available in N scale.

There are some working n-scale crossings, although European from Viessmann.

We've picked up one of these
http://www.reynaulds.com/products/Viessmann/5900.aspx

It works quite well and does not include the road / base pictured.  it looks like it may be "easy" to use the mechanism to power a more north-american crossing like the ones from NJ International:

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=3&search=crossing&show=30&page=1&brand=N.J.%20International

And drive the signals with a flasher circuit.

To operate, one would simply have a push button, add a DCC accessory decoder (caution, the digitrax ones won't work) or get fancy with sensors.

A little kludgey or ambitious, but even just the viessmann alone may be cool. 

[linkey]

Why did Kato discontinue this item? Cost? I've always admired how this item operates. Does Tomix or Greenmax make a similar item?

Cause KATO will be releasing a new set KATO 20-652 and 20-653 to replace the older KATO 20-650 and 20-651. The release date is unknown at the moment as it was supposed to be released this year. (from reading into their catalogue) But will most likely be out in 2012.

[Shashinka]

Good to know, s I'd like to add one to my layout. It was in the original design for for mine, but was to ¥¥¥ for me to buy when I built the original layout.

[keitaro]

I wonder what improvements tomic have made on their new one due in april 2012

[westfalen]

A working level crossing, whether you model Japan or the U.S., is one of the most common things on the real railways but is not available in N scale.

There are some working n-scale crossings, although European from Viessmann.

We've picked up one of these
http://www.reynaulds.com/products/Viessmann/5900.aspx

It works quite well and does not include the road / base pictured.  it looks like it may be "easy" to use the mechanism to power a more north-american crossing like the ones from NJ International:

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=3&search=crossing&show=30&page=1&brand=N.J.%20International

And drive the signals with a flasher circuit.

To operate, one would simply have a push button, add a DCC accessory decoder (caution, the digitrax ones won't work) or get fancy with sensors.

A little kludgey or ambitious, but even just the viessmann alone may be cool. 

But nothing ready to use or easy for the electronics or mechanically challenged. I rigged up a crossing using Bachmann gates, N&J crossing signals and infrared sensors years ago but it was a pain to do and keep adjusted in operation. We need something like the Kato one but upgraded to 2011 technology that can be put straight on the layout.

[nik_n_dad]

But nothing ready to use or easy for the electronics or mechanically challenged.
[/quote]

yeah, it would be nice; that's why we've also thought about just using the Viessmann's out of the box and having it under manual control just for starters.  Nik received one of the original Kato's several years ago, and on a table-top loop, the sound effect about drive me batty (he of course enjoyed it). 

My luck, Kato will come out with DCC-friendly economical crossing gates about the time I invest in making something else work.

[Webskipper]

How about using a photosensor to trigger the crossing lights/gates?

http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/search.aspx?sfield=keywords&search=crossing

OR
http://www.nscalesupply.com/Nji/NJI-8000.html

[nik_n_dad]

The NJ International sensor setup is perpetually sold out/unavailable.  I've been looking for them for some time with no success, but thanks!

[westfalen]

They can be a problem at train shows where lighting can vary.

[Webskipper]

They can be a problem at train shows where lighting can vary.

Great opportunity to add some street lights of your own to provide the necessary illumination.

One guy in my club suspends mini halogens over his scenes.

[keitaro]

Jan release http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10170394

[linkey]

Jan release http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10170394

Told you it will be a 2012 release :P lol

[westfalen]

Infrared sensors and DCC compatible.

[Shashinka]

Also no more unsightly plastic box (office) thing either. And it is cheaper.

[westfalen]

Also no more unsightly plastic box (office) thing either. And it is cheaper.

I posted on a U.S. forum about the new crossing and they just whined about how expensive it was and the thread died.

I've pre-ordered a basic set and a double track add on.

[KenS]

Well, it is a little toy-like, and at US$200 not cheap.

That didn't stop me from pre-ordering one either, though.

[Shashinka]

Also no more unsightly plastic box (office) thing either. And it is cheaper.

I posted on a U.S. forum about the new crossing and they just whined about how expensive it was and the thread died.

I've pre-ordered a basic set and a double track add on.

I'd pre-order it, but I need to get my credit card bill down. I had to do a lot of soul searching just to make my yearly donation to these forums just to cut the credit card bill down. (I did make the donation iin the end) The best way for me to justify not ordering this crossing is the fact I have place on my layout to put it at the moment.

[Webskipper]

Kato Automatic crossing gate page:

http://www.katomodels.com/n/xing_gate_s/

Just add another 20-653 and you get a double track crossing gate.

They need to paint one bold line on both sides of the road so it can be a universal piece. i.e. Right or left hand drive road.

[westfalen]

That's what I've got on pre-order. It will be the centre piece of a set of T-TRAK modules.

[westfalen]

Kato have posted a video of the new crossing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H3g2whRsj_U

[KenS]

Mine came in.  The box is marked for Kato USA and is bilingual, but the manual inside is all Japanese.  Included are examples showing it set up for as many as six tracks using the expansion set (I bought one expansion set to make mine a double-track crossing). BTW, there is on the box a very clear English statement that it's not compatible with the older model. No surprise there.

Can anyone who knows Japanese figure out what the four switch settings described on page 3 do?
Update: Ah, I should have watched the Kato video Westfalen posted sooner.  They select four different crossing sounds.

I'm going to play with it a bit and expect to do a post on my blog later in the week, but once I get some pictures taken I'll post a couple of pictures here too.

[KenS]

Some photos.

BTW, the crossing operated in complete darkness (I couldn't see my hand, but rolling a car over the sensor activated it).  In the dark, you can see two faint red dots at each sensor (note that there is a sensor on either side of the crossing itself, on each track, as well as the two remote sensors per track).  It also operates even without power to the track; the wall wart power supply is all it needs.

Per the manual, you can add up to five expansion tracks to make a six-track crossing. I added one to make a double-track crossing.

[cteno4]

ken,

thanks for the picts. could that be the sensor in the center and then the two guys on either side (that glow red in the dar) the ir led?

kind of looks like the thing in the center is recessed so that it can only see vertically, but pict is small there.

looks like fun, cant wait to see a video of it in action!

jeff

[westfalen]

Thanks Ken, I was going to do a report like yours but you beat me to it while I was at work saving me the trouble.

One thing I haven't figured out from the manual is the diagram at the bottom of page two showing the leads from the sensor tracks plugged into the same side of the crossing.

A good feature is the volume control that will allow the bells to be turned off when you get tired of them by the end of the second day of a train show. The reset button may also come in handy.

I'm only having one problem, the gates on one side don't go all the way up or down because the manual slide switch seems to spring back before the mechanism has finished operating, I may have to have a look inside to see what's going on.

I have the crossing set up as a bridge between two T-TRAK modules and have been just watching the trains go round for an hour, it's fascinating. The next thing is to build the three double modules for it, the frames are hopefully being cut out as I speak. The station next to the crossing will be called Urusai-Fumikiri if my Japanese dictionary app is correct.

[keitaro]

noisy crossing

or shut up crossing :p ??/

[bill937ca]

noisy crossing

Videos indicate Japanese train crossings are usually more penetrating than those in other places.

[westfalen]

noisy crossing

or shut up crossing :p ??/

A tribute to a crossing a club member had on an N-Track module that got so annoying we cut the wires in frustration during a show once. The volume control should spare this crossing a similar fate.

[keitaro]

yeah hehe bill the Urusai-Fumikiri  means noisy crossing or am i wrong

though if i am wrong this is all just from memory don't blame me :D

should be able to load differnt sounds in.

imagine playing some theme song or something instead :D

[westfalen]

yeah hehe bill the Urusai-Fumikiri  means noisy crossing or am i wrong

though if i am wrong this is all just from memory don't blame me :D

should be able to load differnt sounds in.

imagine playing some theme song or something instead :D

The theme from Thomas the tank engine, there was a layout beside us at a show once that played that nonstop for two days, it drove us crazy too.

Here's a quick video of the crossing. Notice how the gates at the front don't go all the way down.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CzaM12dKpgs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CzaM12dKpgs</a>

[linkey]

The theme from Thomas the tank engine, there was a layout beside us at a show once that played that nonstop for two days, it drove us crazy too.

That reminds me of Hobbyco playing the theme of Thomas the Tank Engine at their QVB store. But I have heard other exhibits with even more annoying/repetive sounds. Note for me: To bring ear plugs to the next exhibition lol

[KenS]

Mine's a bit different.  The rear gates don't usually go all the way down (sometimes they do), and the front gates sometimes stop halfway up, but usually go all the way up.  On both, pushing the lever all the way by hand and holding it there will make the gates work properly.  So either there's a lubrication or mechanical problem preventing the lever from moving all the way when thrown by the solenoid, or there's enough play in the mechanism that it won't stay all the way over when thrown.

I'll let it work in a bit, but if it doesn't clear up I may take the mechanism apart and try lubricating it.  Not something I'm eager to try, to be honest.

I don't really understand what the diagram on the bottom of page two is showing either.  I used configuration #1 for my setup, but haven't tried the other.  My final config is going to have two sensors on one side and one on the other on each track (like the right side of config #2 at the bottom of page 4) so I presume the positioning of the other side won't matter, but I haven't tested this yet.

could that be the sensor in the center and then the two guys on either side (that glow red in the dar) the ir led?

Yes, I think so.  It is recessed and as you can see in Westfalen's video the outer two glow while the center does not.

[westfalen]

I'm also a bit reluctant to take it apart, at least it's working at the moment so like you I'll let it break in a bit and see what happens, it'll be a while before I'm ready to start laying track on the modules.

I noticed when playing back the video that the glowing sensors are visible with the room lights on, they are not so obvious to the naked eye. There are screw adjustments for, I assume, the sensitivity of the sensors on the bottom of the track pieces. I haven't touched them yet because they seem to work well at the factory settings but when I lay the track I'll be drilling access holes in the baseboard just in case they need adjustment later.

For their next trick I'd like to see Kato do their signals with the new infrared sensors.

[keitaro]

i would be sending it back, my experience with these kind of items is you fix it once a month later it's happening again or something else goes wrong.

i would have expected it to work better than the previous but if it's not send an email to the store you purchased and send it back for replacement. it's not exactly cheap and the vids i have seen on mixi do not seem to shows this issue.

[westfalen]

the vids i have seen on mixi do not seem to shows this issue.

Odd that two out of the two so far reported on here do the same thing. I may send HS an email but what are the chances a replacement does the same thing.

[keitaro]

like you have said it is probably a simple mechanism piece inside loose or what not and it is possible this has happend during international shipping. no surprises there. still though you should just replace it as once it's opened up it's the begining of more issues.

this guy has issues too

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ip5FZnviCdY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ip5FZnviCdY</a>

though there are 3 mixi videos can't link cause you need a login to mixi that don't i'd says this issue is not mailing problem and more so bad manufacturing

[westfalen]

In the time it took you to make that post I fixed it.

See the photo below for a view of the insides. The spring on the shaft slows the movement of the gates to make them look more realistic. The spring on the lowering side was pushing the gates back up, I squeezed it a bit tighter and the gates now drop to horizontal with automatic operation.

[nik_n_dad]

Has anyone tried the crossing on DCC?  Does one need to do anything in particular to make it work with DCC?

[cteno4]

This new format with the ir sensors make this independent of the rails at all, so dc or dcc don't matter!
It's just the physical process of the train covering the ir emmitter and sensor to cause it to trip. Nothing to do with the power in the rails.

Jeff

[westfalen]

This new format with the ir sensors make this independent of the rails at all, so dc or dcc don't matter!
It's just the physical process of the train covering the ir emmitter and sensor to cause it to trip. Nothing to do with the power in the rails.

Jeff

I can positively confirm that. In the video I posted earlier it is running happily with DCC.

[IST]

Is it possible to use it as a station end crossing gate?
I mean if you have a two tracks station which becomes a one track line, and your gate is on the one track session, can it work somehow?

[westfalen]

Is it possible to use it as a station end crossing gate?
I mean if you have a two tracks station which becomes a one track line, and your gate is on the one track session, can it work somehow?

It should work, the diagram at the bottom right of page 5 of the instructions shows such an arrangement. You'd need a third sensor track though and it looks like you can only get extra ones with the double track expansion kit.

[IST]

It should work, the diagram at the bottom right of page 5 of the instructions shows such an arrangement. You'd need a third sensor track though and it looks like you can only get extra ones with the double track expansion kit.

Thanks for the info. Your reply will cost me a lot of money in the future. 

[westfalen]

Two Tomix #4033 Station on Flyover and two #4031 One Side Platform sets arrived yesterday so here is the first mockup of Urusai-Fumikiri to test how it all looks together. I may narrow the road to a single lane and have it return down the rear of the modules behind the buildings that will line the street to give the impression of the buses disappearing and coming and going from somewhere instead of turning back at each end.

[marknewton]

This new format with the ir sensors make this independent of the rails at all, so dc or dcc don't matter! It's just the physical process of the train covering the ir emmitter and sensor to cause it to trip. Nothing to do with the power in the rails.

So then it should be possible to use the innards of this N scale crossing to make a working HO scale crossing? Either that, or I have to find a website with recordings of the typical Japanese electronic crossing bells! 

Cheers,

Mark.

[KenS]

There are two LED/sensor assemblies built into the track at the gate, as well as two remote ones built into 64mm track segments and connected by wires.  There's no reason you couldn't cut those out. The middle ones connect to the sides via plugs built into the track segments, and the wires from the remote ones connect to sockets on the crossing track segments (and through the same plugs into the sides, I'd presume). So you'd need to do some work to get the wires and middle sensors all connected up beyond simply cutting the LED/sensor assemblies out of the track and putting them on HO track.  But I see no reason it wouldn't work. 

My assumption is that the LED/sensor assemblies have LEDs that shine up, and are reflected by a passing train.  While an HO train is higher up, waving my hand over the sensor about 2" above it was enough to be detected, so an HO train's height above the track shouldn't be an issue.