Sort of club for Dutch/German/Belgian members?

[Martijn Meerts]

I was wondering.. By now we have quite a few Dutch people, and some Germans (no Belgians I believe?), that it would be possible to start some small club. Would there be any interest at all from people?

It wouldn't be like most clubs that get together once a week or something, but more a club that could get together at various shows/exhibitions and show off a Japanese modular layout. I know there's been some talk about possibly doing this, and there's already a module standard for Japanese N-scale (http://raicho.home.xs4all.nl/layouts/jmodule/jmodule.htm), so it would definitely be doable. The J-Module standard is designed for regular DC, so everyone can join in. It would also be possible to do an extension to the standard for DCC modules, or even scale it up for some H0 action.

Personally, I'd like to see a somewhat regular showing of Japanese stuff at shows around here, rather than the bog standard and all too common Dutch, German and Swiss layouts ;) I'm planning on attending shows eventually with my own stuff, but it would of course be a lot more fun to do it with a bunch of like minded people.

(Of course, people outside the mentioned countries would be welcome to join as well ;))

[Toni Babelony]

IMO that's a very good idea. I've been playing with it a well myself. I think if there are four corner modules, everyone can join in with their straight parts.

The J-Module project was something from a few years back. Those horrible old drawings on the website you mention are mine and I worked a bit along with setting up J-Module standards. I think I even have some sketches for potential modules laying around in my archive. Also, meeting up with other members would be an awesome idea, so we can exchange ideas and have a beer together.

You can count me in! I'm kinda eager to make a small project again... A module would be ideal, since I have plans to move to Japan in a year, plus my houses and things are just laying around in boxes collecting dust.

[Martijn Meerts]

Toni, I know the drawings are yours (it says so on the site :)) and the link I got from an earlier post about pretty much the same subject :)

We'd probably need at least 3 or 4 people to make it interesting enough to go to shows. Some people will likely build multiple modules so even with 3 or 4 you should get a nice layout. Obviously, the more, the merrier :)

If nothing else, we could start doing some track planning, see what's possible and what's not possible. I guess some modules need to be somewhat more custom, things like a storage yard would be hard to fit into the specifications.

Hopefully we can get a couple of people to at least meet up somewhere, grab some sushi and sake, and just discuss things a bit :)

[Toni Babelony]

Yeah, those pictures... They were before the introduction of good model train planning software, so it's all a quick sketch. I could do nicer isometric drawings if this project is getting off the ground a bit more.

I think having corner modules and a yard would be essential at the least. IIRC Heiko Stolk from JapanModelRailways had a few J-Modules. Maybe we should contact him and see if he has interest. He also has experience in participating on exhibitions and such, plus we would be a good publication for him as well.

[disturbman]

Tempting but you are just way to far away from me. Shouldn't you also look at recruiting Frenchies? Northern France is not that far away...

[Martijn Meerts]

Toni, not sure if Heiko is building Japanese stuff, he seems more into modeling UK He said modeling Japan is too easy for him because if he needs something he can just grab it from the store =) He might still be interested though, if nothing we could put up the layout at his stand at exhibitions/shows.


Vincent, you're not too far away at all =) If there's an exhibition close to Berlin for example it would be very doable to go there and put up a layout. I don't mind traveling to Berlin by train, I just wouldn't be able to bring any modules :)

And yes, of course Frenchies are welcome, as is everyone else who'd want to drop by :)

[Toni Babelony]

Toni, not sure if Heiko is building Japanese stuff, he seems more into modeling UK He said modeling Japan is too easy for him because if he needs something he can just grab it from the store =) He might still be interested though, if nothing we could put up the layout at his stand at exhibitions/shows.

Well, I'm also not sure if he still has 'em though, since I've ran around my late GM Odakyu 1000 Series on them once on Eurospoor in Utrecht. That was however about 8 years ago. He could have them laying around somewhere still, but yeah, you never know...

[Martijn Meerts]

I'll let him borrow my 1/24 C62-2 when he goes to shows in return for joining up =)

[Darklighter]

Tempting indeed, but I don't know where I will be living in a year (after finishing my dissertation)...

Furthermore, keep in mind that there is already a German club (http://forum.ig-nippon.org).

[Kamiyacho]

(no Belgians I believe?)

I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but at my house in Antwerp I have begun a small bog standard and all too common German/Swiss layout....... in Z scale.  It gives me a break from the Japanese N layout in the US.   

[Martijn Meerts]

Darklighter, I know, I still have to visit one of their meetings at some point. Something always seems to get in the way though ;)

I'm not sure if IG-Nippon does a modular layout for exhibitions or something like that, where members can build the modules at home? If that's the case, either a sister club could be an option, where the Dutchies take their modules to Dutch exhibitions, and the Germans take their modules to German exhibitions, but at a large exhibition once or twice a year or something, the whole lot could get together and make set up 1 larger layout.

The main thing is just to get more people together and get Japanese layouts on multiple exhibitions.

[Martijn Meerts]

Curt, you already have a real nice Japanese layout though, so you're excused :)

[Serow]

Hello the group,

I read parts of this forum for several month but without real need to register... until now. Just to reply. I am a Belgian who is modeling H0-H0m belgian prototype but also Japanese 1/150 interuban style and some 1/50 steam engine.

I have a micro layout in my office and a modular (3 modules) 5 meter long layout for exhibitons. Unfortunately I can not attend as much exhibitions as I would because I must rent a van to transport the layout.

You can have a look on my website www.train-tram.be/model but pictures are not always the best and not up to date. A next foto shooting in forseen.

So If ou have in mind of make a japanese corner in a good exhibition, I will be happy to join.

Eric
-----
www.train-tram.be
www.asvi.be

[Martijn Meerts]

Eric, welcome to the forum =)

You've got some nice layouts. The H0 scale one looks fabulous, and an all Belgian layout isn't very common either :)

[Toni Babelony]

Bonjour Eric,

Welcome to the forums. It's good to see you here, since you've also been quite some time around in the Japanese model train scene, if I remember correctly. Your layouts have always been an inspiration, especially your layout Tennoji, which is a good example of interpreting Japanese interurbans. Very cool indeed!

[Bernard]

Eric - Welcome to the forum and your website is quite impressive. How large is it?

[Mr Frosty]

(Of course, people outside the mentioned countries would be welcome to join as well ;))

Will there be stroopwafels?

[Martijn Meerts]

Stroopwafels can be arranged yes :)

[Bernard]

Stroopwafels can be arranged yes :)

What is a Stroopwafel?

[Martijn Meerts]

Seems they're popular enough to have an English wiki page :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroopwafel

[disturbman]

I like the taste jump this article is is relating: "a stroopwaffel  is a waffle made from two thin layers of baked batter with a caramel-like syrup filling in the middle. They were first made with Gouda." Here my brain stops and explodes...

[disturbman]

Sorry, I read what I wanted... "the first were made in Gouda". It was also strange to have a syrup waffle with Gouda filling. 

[Mr Frosty]

Stroopwafels can be arranged yes :)

What is a Stroopwafel?

Pure addiction of caramel goodness. 

[Serow]

Bonjour Eric,

Welcome to the forums. It's good to see you here, since you've also been quite some time around in the Japanese model train scene, if I remember correctly. Your layouts have always been an inspiration, especially your layout Tennoji, which is a good example of interpreting Japanese interurbans. Very cool indeed!

Thank you for your comments (not only yours, but all of you). I don't know if I am an old japanese modeller, but if you want to know, I was in Japan for the first time in 1993 and started my first japanese layout (never finished) in 1998. The first module of the old Tennoji was born in 1999. After that, the story was going on. Second module in 2002 and third in 2003. Farewell to the old layout in 2009 and rebuilding of module 1 and 2 in 2010. Just in time for the TMM exhibition in Mechelen in 10-2010.

The micro layout is a different story. I had a free space in my office and wanted to fill it with something unusual (for me). I planned modeling the Kiso logging RR, but old Joe Works rollingstock run too bad, and must stay only in display. After comming back from Japan with some new Tomytec and with no space on Tennoji, I decided to make a rural tram only micro layout. Curve on this layout don't allow cars over 15M. For the moment, I only have to solder overhead wire in the station. Maybe I'll do this as a workshop next w-e in a small exhibition in PFT Museum in Saint-Ghislain. In the same time, why not taking good foto for the website.

I passed 2009-20010 winter working on my father's Swiss layout. He already made basement, track laying, half of electricity, base for landscape and half of the overhead wire's mast. I did the rest. Electricity was not a problem, Landscape was quite simple, but overhead wire is a scarry job. 30m hand made soldered with 0,2mm brass wire.

The Belgian layout is a 10 years story. Not finished and with lot idea in stock. Rebuilding half of the village, new DCC devices, building new rolling stock. Not easy but a nice adventure.

I passed the evening to renew part of the website. Some new pictures found back in my HDD and all picture now at least in 640px. I drawed a new track plan showing new develppements on the tram line. The plan now show the main dimensions of the layout. Still on the same adress www.train-tram.be/model , if ou want visit my japanese foto album, it's www.train-tram.be/japon

Thank you for reading this too long and too late post. Now, going to sleep...

[Martijn Meerts]

Maybe we should try and give a few J-Module track plans a go. Would at least be interesting to see what we could theoretically build :)


Toni, do you think the original "inventors" of J-Module might be interested in refreshing it? (maybe set up a dedicated homepage for it, revising the PDFs where needed, drawing up sample modules/trackplans and such) I don't know if any of them still actively wants to build J-Modules or something, but it would be nice to get them along.


As for this whole club idea.. It's not an official club with a clubhouse, membership fees and expected attendance, but more a way of allowing people to have a Japanese layout at an exhibition, without having to do it all solo. All modules built will of course remain yours and you won't be expected to show up on all exhibitions or anything like that. I guess a few modules should "belong" to the "club", so that when a few people decide to go to an exhibition, there's at least enough modules always available to have a full layout. The "club owned" modules would preferably be stored with someone who has the ability to easily transport them. (I could easily store them for example, but I have no driver's license, so transporting them would mean I'd need to acquire the services of a personal chauffeur ;))

[Toni Babelony]

Toni, do you think the original "inventors" of J-Module might be interested in refreshing it? (maybe set up a dedicated homepage for it, revising the PDFs where needed, drawing up sample modules/trackplans and such) I don't know if any of them still actively wants to build J-Modules or something, but it would be nice to get them along.

Already contacted Mark Veneman about this project. He said he'd be looking at this topic this weekend. I don't know if Jeroen Braamhaar is still active in the scene... It already has been 10 years or so since I spoke him.

[Martijn Meerts]

Ah right, forgot for a moment that Mark has an account here =)

[Martijn Meerts]

Just mailed Heiko Stoll about the possibility of several people doing some J-Modules, and whether he's still interested in them, and maybe if we could perhaps sort of team up on shows or something. Let's see what he's got to say :)


I think we should get some ideas going with regards to some track plans for a few modules, and see if we can get a few of them built. Otherwise I have the feeling nothing's going to happen at all.

I have a bunch of Tomix track ready to be used, including the Tomix turntable, which could make an interesting scene for a show.

[Toni Babelony]

Dito here. I have lots of track at my disposal and my idea is to make a 1200cm module with an interurban on a lower level, maybe with a small halt along the normal tracks. This is intended to have a small layout for private use to play with when it's not connected to a large layout.

When I have the time I can draw up some module plans in 3D or isometric perspective when I have the time.

[cteno4]

Whats IG nippoN been up to? Havnt heard a peep from Kai in a long time here on the site. they seemed to be having some luck with their get togethers and also some show stuff.

jeff

[Darklighter]

I was waiting for Kai to show up, too...
They are currently building some modules using Tomix track and Fremo N90 end profiles. Here are the exact specifications (only in German): http://forum.ig-nippon.org/viewtopic.php?p=5330#p5330

[Martijn Meerts]

Would definitely be possible to do a conversion piece from J-Module to the IG-Nippon module format, as well as other module formats. That way we could also get some modules to the large N-scale meet in Stuttgart, and hook them up there.

Heiko Stoll also recommended something like that rather than only use a custom module format. He didn't have his J-Modules anymore btw, gave them away to some Dutch guy. He did like the idea of getting some people together and have some Japanese trains to show off on shows though ;)

[Toni Babelony]

Hmm, since nobody has started on a J-Module as of yet, couldn't we adapt the standards of IG-Nippon and start a splinter-cell BeNeLux/France group for that? In that way we can develop a general European standard instead of having two different systems from the start (which could lead to feuds or something like that). Some of the IG-Nippon modules have already been built and/or are ready for use (Kai) and more are being build. Soon they'll have a system that is ready for use on shows and/or meetings, which the J-Module lacks.

The only real difference between the modules are: they are only 400mm broad instead of the 500mm of the J-module system, plus the modules aren't isolated blocks as opposed to the J-Module system. I think this quite handy, since it allows for trains longer than one module and requires less complicated electronic systems (at least, I think).

IMO we should adapt the IG-Nippon standards for our project and try to meet up with them, so we can all enjoy large/small international/national/local meetings.IIRC from discussions on this forum (plus my own experience), the Japanese railroading scene outside Japan is a very heart warming community with little to no flamewars/hatred amongst one another. We should keep it that way I think, since Japanese model trains still are a big niche in amongst the niche of model railroading in general in Europe, we shouldn't segregate, but rather group together.

Just my wobbly 2 Eurocents

[Martijn Meerts]

I have no problem using the IG-Nippon standard. Another advantage is that Kai has end plates available, so that you don't have to make your own end plates. That ensures that all the modules fit together well :)

I'm still planning on visiting one of the IG-Nippon meets, the past few have just been at bad times for me.

[SONIC883]

Hi guys

sorry for the long silence. I have much work and I am not healthy. So I doen't / can't spend much time in the WWW.

It is good to hear that you would like to adopt our 'agreement'. And the idea of Toni withe the meetings sounds great.  

'Our' module-System is based on all standards which we put together. The face plate of the modules is the FREMO N90 Flat one without the trackbed. Lengh is the multiple part of 30 cm - Standard is 90 and 120 cm. Tracksystem is Tomix and is placed in the middle of the Module. At the crossing to the next module is a 40mm gap for the V90.

That is only a basic agreement - it is a long way to a standard. Most Questoins arn't answered, because we want to decide at a meeting when we can try out. The difficult part is, that we don#t life near together ...

Maybe we (the european part) can meet us to discuss live at the modules.


I had some ideas about a european wide club some years ago. First for the german languaged part. => JRMeurope => Devisions in each country => Work together in Interesst Groups (like IG nippoN as a Group for N-Scale module standard) ... But it is hard to find people in Germany for this - what should it be when it starts in europe?
Than I have seen that we can only establish our hard core (Dr. Y, Waldi - I hope Keikyu will come back, too and me) with two new actives, shiniji and Sarutobi. We all life across germany. So my big vision shrink down to 'go the Stuttgart exhibition'. This as well my wife is ill (in moment she is well and we can do things together, tomorrow it can looks bad) and actual my overweight catchs me and i have many trouble with my backbone, no sense in the fingers etc ...

Yeah... my dream is one plattform for all Japan Rail modellers worldwide (like this forum) where all 'clubs' => (continental? like JRMeurope, ...) can work together...   


- Kai

[Martijn Meerts]

Kai, you and your wife's health are more important than the forum of course, so there's no need for apologies :)


I think one of the problems is that people don't get exposed to Japanese trains enough to get an interest in them. Having people all over Europe with modules to set up at show would create more interest. Also, the modules could go to Japanese events, like JRM does with the cherry blossom festival. The layout got a lot of attention there. If that could be combined with a stall selling some starter sets and some of the cheaper things, that might get some people into it.

I'm all up for a meeting sometime. Depending on who's interested we could set something up that's central for all of us. Of course, I'm still interested in going to the IG-Nippon meeting at some point ;)

[keitaro]

i suggested to Ghan to take my layout to a japanese cultural festival it's not a great layout and pretty small but hopefully people will like the looks of the models and i have a fairly spread out collection covering many different types now.

[Densha]

I am planning on making some T-track modules for personal use in the (hopefully near) future. I have been asking some questions about it on another section of the forums, and then cteno4 made my curious about if there is actually any T-track being made in the Benelux/Germany. I do know there are some people on that German forum making some of them, but apart from that I don't know anyone. So my question is if there are any people that are using it, planning to do it, or are interested in it. Than we could maybe make some kind of standard so that, if ever it gets of the ground, we at least all use the same dimensions instead of that it's totally incompatible.
Of course this is totally irrelevant to larger modules everyone was talking about, but it's a different aspect of the hobby and much easier to make (I guess since I've never made one yet).

[Martijn Meerts]

I don't know of anyone in The Netherlands doing T-Trak, but then again, I don't know many people in The Netherlands doing model railroading, because most of those who do are more into H0 and Dutch prototypes ;)

Doing some T-Trak modules might be a good start for a "club" though, as they're small, so easy to build and transport. Setting up a fairly simple loop with a focus on detailed scenery would be doable, and could show the charm of a small rural line in Japan.

I'm usually not much for the common standards, considering they hardly ever work well for the things I want to do. Also, since the modules will be Japanese (and therefor aren't likely to ever be linked up with others modules) it's quite possible to come up with some standard that just works.

[Densha]

I know most people have H0 and Dutch and German model trains here, but I'm sure there are quite a few people who do have Japanese trains as you and I. I know that 200系 has some Japanese trains, only 2 Shinkansen sets if I'm right, I know him from the Dutch Beneluxspoor.net forums (uses a diff. nickname there though). I doubt he's interested in T-track but you'll never know. Also some people on the BNLS.net stated that they found Japanese trains interesting after we both showed our new models, not to the point you and I like it I assume, but at least people find it enjoyable to look at. There is quite the possibility that I will be the very first person in the Netherlands doing T-trak, but as cteno4 said maybe it will lead to more people actually making them.

As you can read in the linked topic, I am planning on doing a "small rural line in Japan", exactly as you say. I'm planning to do at least 4 curved modules and 2 straight which result in the "fairly simple loop".

As cteno4 tried to explain to me, basically only the track spacing needs to be defaulted otherwise it will look very weird or just not fit completely right. Also there has to be set a height standard, because it will be impossible to link up otherwise. Of course the bolts can be used for that, but I think it's better to use them only when it's really needed, because I think they will be quite annoying.
I wanted to make some designs for myself anyway, so maybe I'll just think of the way I personally think the standard should be set.

[Martijn Meerts]

Just post drafts of a standard here (or PM me if you prefer to do it in Dutch), so people can look at it and come up with comments. Maybe I (and others who've shown interest) can build a few modules as well, and we could see if we can meet up at a show somewhere to display the layout.

I have quite a few short painted trains that are bound to draw some attention, and most of them aren't converted to DCC yet :)


That way we could do a small rural line using the custom T-Trak standard, and use I.G.Nippon's standard for larger modules that can link up with their layout and get some good stuff going at shows =)

[cteno4]

Take a look at this video. Really some great ideas for scenes

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,6072.0.html

Jeff

[Densha]

@Martijn
What is the IG-Nippon standard actually? I have seen this draft but I don't know if it's the standard used there. I want to base most of the modules on those since they are pretty nice. I also would like to ask your opinion about whether using 248+62mm tracks and a module of 308mm or 248+64mm tracks and a module of 310mm. That's because 1mm at both sides have to be off the module so that it's easier to connect modules. 62mm tracks are easier to get and using 308mm is not really a problem if I would let the shop saw the wood, but 310mm long modules are easier to do the maths with and easier to saw in case someone wants to do it himself.

[Martijn Meerts]

http://forum.ig-nippon.org/viewtopic.php?p=5330#p5330 is a description of the module end-plates and sizes they use for the bigger modules.


I don't have much Unitrack myself, so I'm not familiar with what they have on offer, and what's easiest to get. The length of a module doesn't matter that much though, it's really the end plate width, height and the placement of the track that need to be precise. Whether the module is 310mm or 900mm makes little difference :)

[Densha]

Ah, right. I misread your earlier post. The post I linked to is the T-trak of course.

62mm is standard included in the variation sets, so there's more chance someone has them than the 64mm ones that are actually made for diagonal use. I have two 62mm myself that were included in the M1 set, and if I were to build a module I wouldn't have to buy new tracks 64mm tracks.
What do you mean with width, the depth when standing in front of it? If so, it wouldn't be really important since it can be 30cm at the most and for the less deep modules I would go for 15cm. The length of the module does make a difference because it won't line up otherwise with others of course! The best is to keep the standards lengths ~310, 620, 930, for the straight modules.

[Martijn Meerts]

There has to be some standard lengths for the modules of course, but for example, I could choose to make a large-ish station spread over 3 modules. Each of those 3 modules can have any length, as long as the 3 together are a multiple of 310.

With width, I do mean depth yes. The modules can have various depths I guess, would just look a bit weird connecting a 30cm modules to a 15cm module ;)


It would really be great if we could get 3 or 4 people building some modules and go to some shows. Would love to see what kind of attention a highly detailed, Japanese urban layout would get.

[cteno4]

martijn,

you can make modules of any length as long as you have two of them to put on both sides of a run to even it up.

actually folks do them at different depths and its not horrible when hooked next to each other. unless you are doing long fairly continuous scenes on your modules, it doesnt really cause any more disruption to have different depths to each other than the scene changes module to module. of course probably better not to have every other one popping in and out, but allowing for more than one will really help in the long run.

cheers

jeff

[Densha]

Since I have a Tomytec suburban station (not yet completed) I am also planning on making a station module, it will be also around 3 modules long. But of course you can build one too, than I keep it for self-use.

I think 15-20cm is the best to start with, and if someone would make a 30cm deep module, maybe some kind of transition module could be made if it looks ugly.

Off-topic: Thank you god, anyrail just updated and guess what, the wye switch is included now. Also they updated a lot of other things, but I don't care about that.

[Martijn Meerts]

The station was just an example, really not sure yet what I would build. If we want to go to shows with the modules, we'll need a bit of planning so that we at least make enough modules for a loop, and probably store all those modules in the same place. Makes it a lot easier. After that, anyone can make additional modules which they can bring whenever they feel like it.

I wouldn't mind 'donating' a few of the base modules, but since I don't have a car or driver's license for that matter, it might not be the best for me to store the lot of them. But that's something that can be decided later on as well. The main thing is to get a standard going (something like modules of 20x310 (or multiples of 310), with a height of xx cm. Then we have to figure out the track center, and whether it should be single or double track, or a combination somehow.

[John P Boogerd]

Cool - I live in Canada but collect Japanese and Dutch.