Hitachi Dentetsu Moha 13

[keitaro]

i had to order this model even if it's a kit and probably can't assemble it
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10167608

for more info on this go to this link http://g-gauge.world.coocan.jp/prototype/hitachi/hitachi.html

[The_Ghan]

I see the appeal ... and admire your balls ... Mrs keitaro's gonna come after you !!!

Cheers

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

  she will

i'll have to put in some overtime for this one lol

[Martijn Meerts]

World Kougei is quite good at releasing kits of trains that you really want, even if you're not certain you'll ever be able to build the kit..

By now, I have 4 or 5 of their kits, and 2 more on pre-order.. And I'm still planning on getting a steamer kit sooner rather than later :)

[keitaro]

hoping the deki comes soon i need some practise.

Also need to buy myself some better solder i have thick solder and i think it needs a lower melting temperature.

[Martijn Meerts]

The solder won't be a problem, heating up the metal enough for the solder to flow well on the other hand ... :)

Optimally, for the larger kits, you'll probably want various solders, all with different melting temperature. That way you solder the large bits first, and then uses a quicker melting solder for smaller detail parts etc.

[keitaro]

yeah i just bought some 144 and 185 or something like that melting point solder.

i was also going to get a mini pen torch one and see how that goes.

the hope was i could use the torch on the smaller lower temperature melt point pieces

[Martijn Meerts]

I'm planning on getting a micro torch as well. I found out (the hard and irritating way) that my soldering station really is for small electronics ;)

A micro torch should make it easier to solder the larger pieces of the shell together as well.. Or so I hope =)

[The_Ghan]

Can someone provide a line to what a micro torch is?

Cheers

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

-------------------------------------


that enought for you??

http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_slimline-torch-and-soldering-iron_914.aspx
http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/infoBANK.aspx?SG=2000165&S=4084692&G=2003074

[cteno4]

One drawback of torches is that you also get a lot of heat in surrounding areas as compared to a soldering iron. This is fine if it's metals around the bonding area, but if it's stuff heat sensitive then there can be trouble. Also it can pour a lot more energy into your metal and thus soften low melting solder joints nearby. I did a lot of silver soldering and brazing on jewelry and small sculptures years back with small torches and using flame shields and heat sinks was a must when things got small and joints close. Using lower melting point solders is even tougher in these situations. Not that they are not useful, but it's very different than a soldering iron and takes a bit of practice.

Folks also use pretty large soldering irons with flat, square surface tips when doing brass models like this as they provide a larger contact surface area and heat sinks to heat the larger metal parts. Most soldering irons are meant for smaller metal parts in electronics and thus don't tend to have the heat capacity to work on larger metal parts in models like martijn mentioned.

Cheers

Jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I'd use the torch purely to solder large pieces together. With some kits, the shell comes in multiple pieces, and you need to solder on the front and back for example. I think that's a lot easier to do with a torch then a soldering iron. Small parts like handrails and horns and all the detail bits and pieces I'll probably just use some epoxy for. Once it's painted and clear coated, there's little change of the detail bits coming off.

[cteno4]

yeah and just practice on scrap pieces of material, really helps figure out your rhythm of getting the torch in, heating, then solder in there, weld, then out. you can do some great tiny stuff with the micro torch, but it just takes some practice to do it well and not melt other things! my old metals instructor use to be really strict about practicing like this before beginning a project with new metals or brazing materials. it did pay off! i use to build little weird sculptures as i practiced, use to crack the other students up as they would just do strict welds in a row.

paste flux can be a big help as well as you can help localize where the solder will first bond. it does melt and flow some when it gets hot, but usually better than trying to use rosin core solder.

ive used a big iron in the past and it worked well even on smaller parts, but it took a lot of getting use to as it was a lot heavier and bulkier to hold than a light little electronic soldering irons i was use to!

epoxy is simpler! you can always grind off any extra pretty easily as well.

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I used to do quite a bit of welding and soldering of larger bits and pieces when I was still doing car mechanics. Was never really good at welding (of course, the welding machine was crap ;)), but the soldering always went fine.

The thing with the World Kougei kits, is that they're really small, and they haven't added any extra material to make glueing easy or give it a really strong bond. A large iron is also hard to use because of the limited space.

I initially planned on getting a Weller torch, but they're a bit expensive. I noticed Dremel has one that's quite a bit cheaper, so I'll go with that one to start with. The Weller is obviously higher quality, but Dremel stuff isn't bad either :)

[cteno4]

things flip when you start welding/brazing/soldering small. on larger stuff its all about getting things hot enough with larger chunks of metal bleeding off heat, with the small stuff its more about not getting things too hot and popping something nearby or melting your parts! on the small stuff its about getting in and out rather quickly. play with it and experiment and you'll get the feel for it i think. im sure the little dremel set up will be decent to play with. with torches is mostly about your tips. keep them clean!

ive never used the little butane torches, only ones that used them for a soldering iron, never as a flame torch for soldering. i used acetylene and acetylene/ox torches. only concern with the little butane canister torches is that they are under a lot of pressure and dont have a pressure regulator on them i think so your flame may be quite a jet. i remember the little butane soldering irons i had had quite a rapid jet flame in them. so probably would not work well with connecting small parts together unless both are held in place well.

cheers

jeff