It might finally happen ...

[Martijn Meerts]

As many of you know, I've never been to Japan, and I've long been wanting to visit it but for a variety of reasons it just never worked out. However, I'm really trying to get a trip together for 2012 and finally experience Japan first hand. So, I could use some tips with regards to where to go, what to do and where to stay. It's not going to be a trainspotting trip, nor a trip to see as much of Japan as possible, but rather I'm trying to focus a bit.

What I'm thinking of is the following:

I want to stay around the Kyoto area for most of the trip, with a few days in Tokyo as well. In Kyoto I want to stay 2 or 3 days at a ryokan in or close to the Gion district. If at all possible, I would love to see some traditional Japanese shows/performance there, but I have no idea where to get info about what's going on there.

I'd also love to stay 2 or 3 days at a temple, and just follow along with whatever the monks do. Again though, I don't know which temples near Kyoto allow that, and where they speak some basic English.

In Tokyo I obviously want to visit Tokyo Station and most importantly, the Ghibli Museum. The Imperial gardens are also high on the list. I'm not planning a long stay in Tokyo, maybe a day or 3-4.

Other then that, I want to visit many of the temples around Kyoto, especially sanjusangendo. I'm also considering renting a bicycle (if possible) and do some biking around the Kyoto area. I may also set aside a day or 2 for a day trip to nearby towns/cities that are worth visiting. Hiroshima is one of the places I want to visit, and I believe that's quite doable travel time wise to do as a day trip.

In total, I'm thinking of doing a 2.5 to 3 week trip.


So, anyone have any tips of a good, traditional ryokan? Should be affordable, but doesn't have to be the cheapest around. Also, any good places to stay in Tokyo for a few days? Close to Tokyo Station and the Imperial Palace would be nice. Again, doesn't have to be the cheapest, but should be affordable. And of course, a good hotel around Kyoto, where I'll be staying a bit longer. Preferably a bit central. The hotels don't have to be traditional style :)

Also, if anyone knows where to get some decent info about staying at a temple, and how/where to make reservations or check prices, that'd be great too.


Any general hints and tips for a first time visitor are also welcome, especially considering I'm going solo as it doesn't look like I'll have a travel companion anytime soon. So, might as well get used to traveling solo ;)


Oh, I'm probably going towards the end of 2012, October or November or something like that.

[disturbman]

Great for you!!!

But you know, Internet is an incredible source of answers. ;)

For the temple stay: google search

For hotels there is a three or four different platforms that gives you the possibility to reserve hotels, hostels, inns... anywhere in the world and they also cater for users review. Great way to find out where to stay. I'll give you more precise answers if I had them but I only good places in Fukuoka and Osaka. :)

[Martijn Meerts]

I did do some google searching and came up with a variety of things, but I'd prefer to hear from people I (sorta) know (aka forum members) rather than read reviews by random people :)

I'm probably also going to check with some travel agencies to see if they can do anything, but they tend to not like doing custom trips ;)

[disturbman]

Of course, I know why you are asking for our advice. I'm telling you the way I (sort of) planned my own (two months) trip last year. And I was never disappointed by my choice of hotels/hostels. I always had an incredible stay. You get pretty much a good idea of what is what by looking at pictures and reading those reviews.

In my case, I was always looking for small and recently created hostels. Most of them are made by people in their late 20s early 30s, staff is scarce and friendly. Most of the time it was like sleeping at a friend's place. Don't be fooled by the "hostel" label, in Japan it covers many things and most of them are not the hostels you know in the West.

If you stay in Osaka, check the Hostel 64. I actually consider it as an hotel... and it's beautiful.

[Martijn Meerts]

Yeah, staying at a small "hostel" could be interesting as well. I actually did that in Germany (Solingen more specifically) once. A great little "hotel" with only 4 or 5 rooms or something. Was run by 2 people I think, and it was great. One of the days I spent there I needed to be at the train station REAL early (like, 6am). The owner got up at 5am to prepare breakfast (fresh buns, boiled eggs, etc.) and afterwards drove me to the train station. You don't get that kinda service in many places :)

[Dani]

I went to Japan three years ago on October. I also went on August, but don't do it, it's insane!!!! October is a perfect date with perfect weather and temperature to walk.

I daily posted in this blog each day experiences, sightseeing... etc: http://merodeandojapon.blogspot.com
There is also a section with guides in PDF format made by my own. I read all the travel guides I could before going and prepared a route for each day extracting the best from each one.
You will find there one PDF with all you must see in Tokyo (http://dguisado.googlepages.com/Itinerarioresumenpordias.pdf) and an individual guide for each day that you can interchange depending on what you prefer to see that day. I usually selected one of the guides in the morning and there you have how to go to each place, names of stations in japanese, photos of the stations to avoid getting lost....
It's in spanish but no problem to understand names, places and maps (in japanese and english). I have the same for Kyoto, but I don't remember if I finally posted them... 

Some special things that you can see only on that dates are Jidai Matsuri in Kyoto on 22th October. It's one of the biggest festivals of Japan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jidai_Matsuri
There is also a huge flea market each 21th in Kyoto where you can find and buy what you want very cheap. It's To-ji shrine and it's called Kobosan.

If you want a charm, cheap and japanese style hotel in Tokyo you can stay at Edoya Hotel http://www.hoteledoya.com/main.html

I remember the time preparing the travel as funny as staying there!!

Cheers,
Dani.

[disturbman]

Yes, exactly. That's what I'm talking about.

And, I must say, those Internet site can be great tools to find such places. You just have to know what to look for.

Also, I've been recounting your days and, a week in Kyoto plus 4 days in Tokyo... that doesn't make up for 2.5 or 3 weeks. Where else do you plan to go?

My advice would be, buy the 3 weeks Japan Rail pass. And go a bit around the country plus, the longer the better.   Anyway, it's more than worth the price. Two trips on a Shinkansen and you have pay for the pass.

And don't buy the Lonely Planet, it's inaccurate.

[Martijn Meerts]

Dani, that Jidai Matsuri looks like something I would enjoy a lot. More reasons to go there in October, although I guess I need to make hotel reservations well ahead of time ;)

The Edoya hotel looks interesting as well, I'll need to keep that one in mind.



Disturbman, I'm staying in Kyoto longer than 1 week. 2-3 days in a ryokan, 2-3 days in a temple, and the rest of the time in a hotel. Well, that's the idea at least ;)

I'm going around the country a bit as well, but only places that aren't too far away from Kyoto. I'm definitely going to Japan more than once, so rather than try and see as many places in 1 go, I'll just go back regularly and focus on a certain area with each trip. I also don't want to have every day planned ahead of time, and keep some days free to do nothing or just wander around a bit.

Everything is still in a very early stage of planning though, so things might change.. I've just picked a couple of things I really want to see/do, and trying to get those done in that first trip. The 3 main priorities are visiting the Ghibli Museum, visiting sanjusangendo, and spending a few days in/near Gion.

[keitaro]

Oh, I'm probably going towards the end of 2012, October or November or something like that.

i'll be in japan august /sept and possibly some october in 2012. If you're going to be there in osaka/kyoto when i am in japan happy to meet.

in regards to suggestions theres a really good ryokan near the main kyoto station i went to few years back was 4500 yen a night and they had this awesome garden in the midle of the place and the people who run the place are really friendly (don't speak english much though). I can't find it right now but i'm sure it had a page on some japan trip page i'll keep looking

anything else i don't really want to suggest as it's really you're trip i'm sure between kyoto and osaka you will not have trouble finding great lines to travel on. 

[westfalen]

I've stayed two or three times at the New Miyako Hotel across the street on the south side of Kyoto station, (the opposite side of the station from downtown). If you get a room on the station side at the west end of the building you can watch the Shinkansen and Kintetsu coming and going.

[Martijn Meerts]

Keitaro, I'll probably be there late october, considering there's a festival around that time. I'd really love to see that.


Westfalen, thanks, I'll look into that one. It's always nice to have the hotel close to a station of course ;)

[Shashinka]

Late October is a great time, and with some luck the leaves will be changing around then.

[clem24]

Or go in April for the sakura.

And maybe you'll make it just in time for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanamara_Matsuri

[Nozomi4ever]

Martijn , Japan Guide will be your ultimate pal for tips on where to go and so on. Jprail is recommend too for spending the Japan Rail Pass to the maximum. Japanican(Run by JTB) and Agoda are great pals for booking your hotels and sometimes comes with great discounts which you will never know! Thanks to Agoda , we manage to stay in those newly established hotels at great prices. Of course , nothing beats buying an Ekiben and bring it onboard the train to have a great meal. I will show you some other tips later.
Cheers
Chan

[disturbman]

Well, you can always buy an Ekiben and never take a train. 

The most incredible I had was in Kanazawa, I bought Toyama's speciality a masu-zushi. It was like a 40 cm diameter rice galette with on top a layer of (I think) trout. Everything was packed in bamboo leaves inside a bamboo container that was inside a beautiful cardbox packaging. Price? 1.000 Yen and way too much food for one person.

[Shashinka]

That gives me an idea Vincent. I want to live in the railway system. I'll by a platform pass, and then just live free-range within JR-W. As so long as I never go through a turnstile, I could live within the system indefinitely.  ¥110 rent. Just need to work out the logistics on how to work to pay for food on the platforms.

[bikkuri bahn]

Just a word to the wise: A platform pass doesn't permit travel on a train.  Also, the time limit on a platform pass is 2 hours.  If you spend more than two hours within the confines of the station, you must purchase another platform pass for the next two hours.

http://www.jreast.co.jp/kippu/18.html

[spacecadet]

I've stayed two or three times at the New Miyako Hotel across the street on the south side of Kyoto station,

I've stayed there once as well.  I'm attaching a photo of the view from there.  We were on a middle floor I think (the hotel is not that tall as I recall), but I liked it because the trains were exactly at eye level.  The time I stayed there (2006), the hotel was starting to look a bit worn.  But they may have refreshed it since then; the Japanese tend to do that pretty quickly when things start to look run down.  (Though less so in Kyoto, where I noticed quite a bit of the city looking a bit older than comparable areas in Tokyo, and I don't mean the centuries-old stuff that's supposed to look old.)

I would stay there again just for the view of the trains and it being so close to Kyoto station, which is both practically a wonder of the world in itself, and also the main transportation hub in the city not just for trains, but buses as well.  (Buses are probably the mode of transport tourists use the most in Kyoto.)

It's also very near Kyoto Tower, which you may as well visit to get a lay of the land.  You can basically see the whole city from it, including 90% of the temples.

[Martijn Meerts]

Clem, I'm definitely going around sakura time sometime as well, but not in 2012. I need some time to save up some cash for the trip, and I still need to get some idea of what my monthly cost is going to be like after moving (I signed the papers on friday, so I'm a home owner with a mortgage to take care of now ;))


Nozomi, thanks. I'll have a look at those places and see what kinda hotels they are and what they cost etc.


Disturbman, that's the thing with the Japanese, they pack up everything real nice, even if it's just a decorative wrapper meant to be thrown away. I have several boxes that are just for protection during shipping, but I've never thrown them away because they look so good :)


Spacecadet, nice view ;) I guess Kyoto doesn't see as many tourists as Tokyo, so it makes sense in a way that not everything looks brand new. I don't mind though :)

[disturbman]

Kyoto gets a huge amount of tourists, that's the only city I had to postpone my visit twice because I couldn't find a room. For sure Tokyo gets a lot but Kyoto might be the second tourist destination for non Japanese. If you want to avoid masses of tourist you need to get away from the Tokyo to Hiroshima path. Going to Shikoku will definitely earn you points with backpackers and Japanese, nobody never goes there. :p

Plus, Tokyo like every other city has it's derelict buildings and areas. The climate is hard on the structures. But that's another subject. Kyoto is not worse than anywhere else. To see worse you need to go to more remote places (like Kumamoto) or Kagoshima.

[spacecadet]

Spacecadet, nice view ;) I guess Kyoto doesn't see as many tourists as Tokyo, so it makes sense in a way that not everything looks brand new.

I think it's more the psychology of the city, which is just a lot more laid back than Tokyo.  It's not trying to be an ultra-modern world power of a city like Tokyo is.

And Kyoto is actually overrun with tourists.  It can actually get kind of annoying, even as another tourist :)

Tokyo may get more tourists in total but they're spread out.  Kyoto is a lot smaller of a city and everybody goes there for the historical stuff, so the tourists are concentrated in the same areas.  And I think there are a lot of tour groups and other organized things (school trips, etc.) because you see these large groups of westerners all over the place (mostly Australians and New Zealanders, but also Americans, British, etc.).  Many of them are quite loud and obnoxious.

In Tokyo westerners are still enough of a novelty in most places that, as another westerner, it's like "look, a westerner!" whenever you see one.  But in Kyoto, sometimes it seems like western tourists outnumber the native population.

[Martijn Meerts]

Disturbman, I have to see exactly what I'm going to do when it gets a bit closer to the date, and I have to start making reservations and such. I still need to check things that are happening around the time I'm going there. For example, this year's Formula 1 race in Japan is early October, and the Suzuka circuit is close to Kyoto, so I might try and get tickets to see the race there, or at least a practice/qualifier session, depending on the price.

I also want to see if there's a Japanese artist/band (preferably something like Maaya Sakamoto or Dir En Grey for example) doing any concerts around that time, would love to go visit one :)


Spacecadet, wow, didn't know that. I figured Tokyo to be the prime destination for most people visiting Japan. Either way, apart from visiting some temples I don't really plan on doing the typical touristy stuff (I think at least ;))

[disturbman]

Visiting temples is THE typical tourist thing to do in Kyoto. 

[Martijn Meerts]

Yeah, but considering I do Kyudo, I really HAVE to see sanjusengendo at least ;)

[keitaro]

astro boy museum

[spacecadet]

Yeah, but considering I do Kyudo, I really HAVE to see sanjusengendo at least ;)

Sanjusangendo is cool, but unless I missed some of it (which is possible), the main attraction is really just that one building with the 1,000 buddhas.  Still worth visiting, though, especially if you have a personal connection to it.

But I really recommend seeing Kiyomizu temple too, which is truly amazing and will really make you feel like you are in some historical Japanese movie.  Provided you go at a time when it's not being occupied by an entire Australian high school :)

(Tour groups actually kind of drive me crazy in temples, because a lot of people don't realize temples are not just historical tourist spots, they're still working religious sites where people are praying.  I've seen some atrocious manners at temples in Kyoto.)

I've actually been to a bunch of temples in Japan (both in Kyoto and in Tokyo/Narita) and honestly, most of them are kind of similar in a lot of ways... Kiyomizu is the one that stands out for me.

In Tokyo, also be sure to visit the Meiji Shrine, which is not buddhist (if that matters to you) but is just an amazing place, especially considering where it is.

[keitaro]

Yeah, but considering I do Kyudo, I really HAVE to see sanjusengendo at least ;)

Sanjusangendo is cool, but unless I missed some of it (which is possible), the main attraction is really just that one building with the 1,000 buddhas.  Still worth visiting, though, especially if you have a personal connection to it.

But I really recommend seeing Kiyomizu temple too, which is truly amazing and will really make you feel like you are in some historical Japanese movie.  Provided you go at a time when it's not being occupied by an entire Australian high school :)

(Tour groups actually kind of drive me crazy in temples, because a lot of people don't realize temples are not just historical tourist spots, they're still working religious sites where people are praying.  I've seen some atrocious manners at temples in Kyoto.)

I've actually been to a bunch of temples in Japan (both in Kyoto and in Tokyo/Narita) and honestly, most of them are kind of similar in a lot of ways... Kiyomizu is the one that stands out for me.

In Tokyo, also be sure to visit the Meiji Shrine, which is not buddhist (if that matters to you) but is just an amazing place, especially considering where it is.

Ones in remote locations are the best IMO up in wakayama there is a really good one in the forrest i don't know the name sorry and it's just like the ones you see in animes tucked away but really mysterius

[Martijn Meerts]

The thing with sanjusangendo, is that they have annual archery competitions there. In the old days, they had to shoot as many arrows as they could over a distance of some 120 meters, and they had to do so 24 hours straight. The record holder (from way back in the late 1600s) shot an average of 1 arrow every 6 seconds. Towards the end, they actually had to fasten the bow to his hand, because he couldn't hold on to it anymore. You can still see a lot of damaged beams and pillars because of archers missing, or shooting too high. The modern version is over a distance of 60 meters, and no longer 24 hours straight :)

I'm always respectful whenever I'm in a temple or church, or any religious place, whether it's still in use or not. I also seldom take pictures of the interiors of such place, and prefer to buy an official book of the place if they have it available.

I'll put Kiyomizu on the list of places to visit :)

[disturbman]

Don't forget to visit Fushimi Inari Shrine, it's really impressive.

[spacecadet]

I also seldom take pictures of the interiors of such place, and prefer to buy an official book of the place if they have it available.

Yeah, if I remember right, Sanjusangendo doesn't allow photos inside the main building, which is kind of a drag because that's the best part.  Still, if you do a Google search you can see how many people ignore that restriction.  I didn't, though, so I don't have any pictures of it inside.  I don't think they had a book or anything to buy either, or I probably would have bought it.

If you like historical stuff, don't forget to visit the National Museum in Tokyo (largest collection of Japanese historical artifacts anywhere), and I just went to the Imperial Palace grounds on my last trip there and that was pretty amazing too.  You can't go in the actual palace, but there are a lot of structures just around the palace grounds and in the gardens that are hundreds of years old or more.  And to me, it's also neat to see the imprints of structures that are no longer there, like for example you can see the stone blocks with the holes drilled in them for the gates that would have been in place in the Edo period, and you can then imagine these giant wooden gates with guard towers along the walls (the walls really do date back that far, or further).  People don't usually think of Tokyo as a historical city and most of it isn't, but that actually makes places like the Imperial Palace that much more interesting, because right smack in the middle of this ultra-modern city, there's this huge area that's barely been touched in the last 400 years.  And you can totally see how the grounds were laid out to keep invaders at bay, with these twisty little roads covered by multiple walls and gates, and high ground where archers could just rain down arrows onto any invaders below.  And you can walk those same paths and just imagine how it must have been.

[Martijn Meerts]

Spacecadet, it's the same with all the castles in Europe, there's quite a few of them that are many hundred years old. Also, walking around in Rome is pretty impressive, and visiting the Colosseum and then imaging all the emperors and gladiators that have been there.. Well, it's just really hard to imagine :)