New layout ideas?

[Martijn Meerts]

So, our current non-Japanese layout has been dismantled, and we're now looking at a bunch of track plans, sketches, pictures, and whatnot to get some ideas for a new layout. The problem is, I'm pretty empty if it comes to inspiration, so instead I figured I'd ask here what people would do layout wise if they had a certain amount of space :)

So, what would you do if you have approximately 5 x 3.5 meters for a layout? How would you lay out the table (along the walls, center of the room, etc.), what would be your main focus, etc. etc.



Personally, I want to fit in a good sized station for non-shinkansen trains in a good sized city with various skyscrapers etc. I also want to somehow get a 4 track shinkansen station in the city somewhere, close-ish to the other station. Furthermore, some track track for low floor trams like the portrams. On the other end, I'd like some less populated area's with some nice parade tracks. I'd also like some industry in there as well somehow.

So, what would you do? Track plans/track plan snippets, sketches, prototype pictures etc. would be awesome. Maybe I'll just turn this into a JNS layout, and incorporate various ideas from various people :)

[Sir Madog]

Martijn,

your question is close to being like the question "I have a big garage, now please tell me, what kind of car should I buy"

A room of that size leaves an enormous amount of options. It is big enough (assuming that the layout will be in N scale) for just any type - from an island, to a walk-in type of layout to a shelf-type layout along the walls of the room.

The basic question which needs to be answered is the type of operation you folks envision to have. Do you want to watch trains run rather than to operate the local, or vice versa, or a mixture of both?

If I had that amount of space available, I´d build a modular layout along the walls, following closely a prototype, like the Eiden or the Enoshima. I´d try to capture as much as possible of the flavor of this line and would even attempt to operate prototypical. But that´s me, others may have different ideas.

[Darklighter]

How about Tokyo Station? 

A room of that size leaves an enormous amount of options.

Not if you want to run 16-car Shinkansen.

[Martijn Meerts]

Madog: I guess it's a bit of a difficult question, obviously everyone will have different ideas. But that's exactly why I thought it'd be interesting to see what people would do if they had a dedicated, decent sized room to build a layout in :)

And while I would love to take some of the ideas presented here, and implement them into our layout, people shouldn't think about our situation, but really only what they would do, not what we should do :)


Darklighter: I still plan on building Tokyo station in some form, but that really has to be for a modular exhibition layout. The more I think of it, the more I feel Tokyo Station is actually quite boring as a model train station. Also, 5 meters is a tight fit for a station that should be able to hold 16 car shinkansen. It would fit, but you'd end up with next to no space on either end to go anywhere.

I might revise my plans somewhat, and build Tokyo Station as it was back in the days of steam. I believe the paper kit Jeff has depicts the station from around that era.

[Dani]

Just a rough idea as it comes to my mind:

* Lay along the walls with control panel and operator in the middle, this will give you more track lengths
* My "ideal" of Japanese layout (that I'm trying to apply to my "in construction" layout) must contain at least these things:
    - Big city with skyscrapers and shinkansens running between buildings, with a viaduct station for shinkansens. If it's big enough, tram and a ground floor station may be for non shinkansen.
    - Rural zone away from the city with an elevated area, trying to reproduce those Japanese forests and mountains, with some small, old, wooden sleepers track and reproducing a temple area or baths area (I think you can go for both...).

More things depends on how you enjoy a layout: Do you like goods and manoeuvres, may be a harbour? Or you prefer seeing long trains and play reproducing timetables?

I'll try to find some plans of this size in my books and scan something and post ( Can I? )

Ganbatte!!!!

Dani.

[Martijn Meerts]

Dani, feel free to post the scans, just make sure you mention which books they're from, and who wrote the book. That way you're giving credit where credit's due. (and of course, don't scan and post the entire book  )

[Hobby Dreamer]

what would you do if you have approximately 5 x 3.5 meters for a layout?

First, I'd wet myself!!!

You are such a talented guy anything you do will look amazing!  I, too, like the wall idea. If you can build a shelf you could have your high-speed passenger stuff on one level (for lengths of running) and then maybe have another shelf, above or below for a nice tram run.. The thing about N scale is that 1/2 a meter in depth is a ton of room for rail, roads, structures and scenery.

Then you have the core of the room and other walls etc to add your stations..

Also, if you do a double shelf idea you can have one rural with trees and fields (and maybe photo backdrop) and the other can be "busy". And you have your station and yards etc in the core of the room..

I'm not really "in" to a Japanese layout but too few people have a nice length to run their trains and 5 meters is nice if the train is not too long. Its a pity not to have a long run for your Japanese trains!!

Good luck
Rick

[keiman]

Thats bigger trhan the overall dimensions of our ground floor
Personal thoughts as others round the walls, that way you can have gradients fixed to the wall.
Centre Island possibly linked by BIG bridge to the track on the walls.
Island to have Terminus station and Tramway/Bus system and your city.

[Darklighter]

As layout designer Lance Mindheim wrote in his blog (http://www.shelflayouts.com/blog.htm , "Know Thyself", October 26, 2010):

Too much attention is placed on the space available for the layout.  A far more important question is, “How much energy do you have?  How much time will you realistically have to spend on the layout?  Will you be as energized two years from now when the reality of construction obstacles has set in?  Is the design something that can be brought to critical mass relatively quickly without getting bogged down during construction?

What area of modeling interests you the most?  Scenery?  Structures?  Rolling Stock?  Does the design address those interests?  Do you want to model a specific town that brings back fond memories or a longer geographic expanse?  Do you want to model a specific rail company?  Do you want to model a specific operational scheme?

Are you primarily a railfan, happy to just watch trains running through interesting scenery or are you an operator?  Are you truly interested in operations?  Really, or were just told you should be interested but really are not?

If you are interested in operations, what type?  Main line runs? Passenger trains? Locals? Yard classification?  All of the above melded into an overall transportation system?  Does the layout size and scale address those interests?

Are you interest in highly detailed scenes, general representations, or a mix?

[Hobby Dreamer]

Thanks Darklighter  for that quote..

I'd add to that: your interests are likely to evolve when material, technology or know-how  advance.

[bill937ca]

If had that space I'd go for freestanding benchwork (like a table) that allows full length trains to run across the layout on an embankment so you could view the train as a whole.  You'd need access hatches but you could also have a U shaped cut in like a bay along a coast line.

A U shaped cut like a bay would allow for interesting night scenes if you light your buildings and trains.  JR's mainline curves around a harbor in a crescent shape as it passes through Hiiroshima.  Tram lines link the three JR stations with each other and shopping areas.  That could be your urban area and if there are mountains in the background your train lines could curve around the mountains to less populated areas on the other side of the layout.

A layout of that size focused on Japan should have mountains! Most Japanese cities are located on the coast, so the cut-in bay idea would allow long panoramas and sparking effects in the dark.

Of course, because of the realities of jobs, and lives changing it probably should be built in modules or at least sections that can be bolted together as additions are made.  This also saves you from the overwhelming task feeling.

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

I am partial to the modular shelf idea for starters.

When it comes to your station. how about you build your station on a curve?  You would need a large sweeping curve (flex track or tomix 502/539 slab rail) and your platforms would need to be custom built.  It would be quite a bit of work, but you would get a large station into what would seem like a smaller space.  Then, in the large triangle of "unused space" behind the station into the corner you could place your skyscrapers.

If you did an elevated station on a curve like this, you could have some interesting views of ground level (local/freight) tracks passing under the viaduct.. or if you really wanted, use the curve to create a multilevel station (much like KenS is doing with his layout) with bullets on top and locals on the ground floor.

[Martijn Meerts]

Thanks for all the ideas so far, it's really interesting to read how people would do things :)

I hadn't thought about the shelf/double deck layout, but that's actually something I could do. On the lower floor would be the main layout, and on the upper floor I could have my mini modules set up. That'd also allow me to mount some good quality lights over the entire layout.


Darklighter, that's a really good quote, and very true. It's also a well known fact that the larger the layout, the less chance of it actually being completed :) That's why I'm also doing the mini modules though, it's a good way of doing something different once in a while.


Bill, some sort of harbor is definitely something I'm looking at as well. I still have my 1:150 Nippon Maru which needs a nice spot. The layout will definitely be in sections, something we didn't do with our previous layout, and which is the reason why we had to tear it down.


Krackel, a curved station is much more interesting than a straight station, especially when the station is big enough for longer trains. I'll likely be using all Peco track, so I can make some nice sweeping curves. The platforms themselves wouldn't be too difficult, but platform roofs would be interesting to scratch build :)

[KenS]

Well, from what I've read of your interests I don't think this would fit them, but it's probably what I would do if I had that size room: an around-the-wall tail-chaser layout for big urban trains (yeah, it's my mania). Here's a quick-and-dirty sketch using Unitrack in RailModeller.

I'd probably add a bit, but this is the core concept: a 66cm shelf around the wall, with two separate tracks, Shinkansen and Narrow Gauge. One side would be taken up with a large display yard, with the commuter line running through it, but the Shinkansen line running behind on a viaduct.  There'd be a duck-under to reach the door (or maybe the kind of "bridge" that pivots out into the room).

I figure I can fit five 16-car Shinkansen and four 11-car commuter trains, plus a pair of shorter limited express types in the yards.  There might be additional hidden storage (that's the most obvious thing to add).  The second long wall would be taken up by one huge station (8 tracks, 7 platforms).  The two end walls would have commuter stations.  I might center the commuter station on the long wall to make a larger gap between it and the right side station now that I look at the diagram.

At this reduction it's hard to tell, but the black splotches on double-track are crossovers (one in each yard and one to give both shinkansen tracks access to the shinkansen yard).

I think I'd work in a small freight branch and/or a two-track container yard while I was at it.  Maybe cluttering up the space between commuter and shinkansen on the right side.  The left-side station would be some kind of foreground urban scene, with the ground-level train station and viaduct behind it.

This is definitely more of a "railfan" (watch the trains run) layout than an operational one.  If I wanted the latter I'd probably lose the shinkansen line and put in a couple of small branch lines that come together into the main station, and a larger freight terminal. A peninsula of some kind would also work with shorter trains, although aisle space would be problematic. There's a lot you could do with that size room in N-scale.

[Martijn Meerts]

Ken, definitely allows a lot of trains to be run, especially if you add in a hidden yard somewhere.

I can't do an around the room layout actually, because part of the room will need to serve as a service station/kit building place/airbrush station/etc. :)


So far, based on what I already had in mind, and some of the input here, I'm thinking of going for a large-ish curved station on level 1 (level 0 being ground floor), a 4-track shinkansen station either on level 2, or on level 1 as well, and somehow make the shinkansen tracks part of the regular station. I'm also definitely going for a tram line.

The large station will be situated in a city, so trains will be partially out of sight al the time due to tall buildings. The buildings can also be used to hide the trains going to and from the hidden yard. I have an idea of a custom station building which would make it possible to run shinkansen on level 2 and the rest on level 1, I just worry a bit that running the shinkansen that high up would look a bit weird.

The shinkansen loop, the regular loop and the trams will probably be fully automated. The tram line is just for additional movement on the layout, whereas the other lines are to provide space for long trains to run. For manual play I'm considering some smaller freight operation, maybe a small container terminal, or maybe a loco servicing terminal that especially steamers can reach from the main line.

The new layout is definitely going to be modules, probably 80cm deep. Length will depend on what's going on there, but shouldn't exceed 150cm or so. The reason for the 80cm depth is because that way I can use the storage yard modules I've already started building with the new layout, by mounting them underneath the new modules.

I'm also going to make sure that all curves are super elevated, since that definitely looks a lot better :)

[David]

I've got some ideas for commuter lines but they mostly involve a slightly larger area (more American garage sized) and personally I'm not sure I'd like them in the end.

But one interesting idea I had that might give you some ideas is to subvert the normal reach rule - normally an around the room layout (the best use of space) can't use benchwork deeper then about 2 feet or you can't reach the back. I was thinking about room layouts that let you sit in the middle and watch everything, and how an average 12' wide room leaves a lot of wasted space in that configuration - unless you make one side much deeper then you normally should (twice as deep) and insert a narrow access corridor (24") for construction and maintenance behind it.

Now you have a layout with two main areas - narrow along the wall benchwork for a long running line (maybe with a suburban or rural appearance with a return loop at the end) and a large dense area in which you can have overlapping lines. Remember that the 40-48" deep bench means the lines don't have to run straight and parallel, they can weave and turn over themselves much like a center of the room layout only without losing the long runs of an around the room layout. Also I hate duck unders so this layout has none. It's assumed the door is somewhere near the bottom.

[Hobby Dreamer]

The 2 level design should be great!

[Darklighter]

If you want to build a multi-deck layout, I can recommend Designing and Building Multi-Deck Model Railroads by Tony Koester.

A depth of 80 cm is a lot. How are you going to support the upper lever? (I'm using shelf brackets, but I don't know if they are available in adequate sizes for your requirements.)

[Hobby Dreamer]

Nice book link!

How much weight can shelf brackets hold? Or, how heavy can track etc get on a shelf of 8 to 18 inches?

[Martijn Meerts]

Hobby Dreamer, I'm just a bit worried that having the shinkansen some 10cm above ground floor is a bit much. I wonder if there are any prototype shots of a shinkansen line being that high up from ground level in a city...


Darklighter, it's not going to be a multi-deck layout as such. I'm just planning on putting some shelves along the wall above the large layout, and use those shelves to set up my mini modules. There won't be a connection from the large layout to the "upper deck" at all.

80 cm is indeed quite a bit, and I might revise that. If I want to use the current storage yard the new modules will have to be around 80cm though, otherwise the storage yard won't fit underneath. I'm uncertain if it's possible to use the storage yard however, considering it's designed for full length trains. The 80cm isn't necessarily going to be a problem though, as I'm planning on building the modules and the legs in such a way that modules can be easily removed when they require work. A train stalling in the back isn't an issue, I can always reach those one way or another.


Since I don't have access to the new house yet, I can't really get a good view of what's possible on the room in question, so detailed planning and such is still a bit premature :)

[Martijn Meerts]

Did a quick search for some shots of elevated shinkansen tracks, came across some interesting pictures.

http://shibuya246.com/2010/10/13/shikoku-trip/

Some 4 pictures down there's a shot of a bunch of track on different levels. Not sure the upper level is a shinkansen track, but either way, it does seem they go up 2 levels.


http://shibuya246.com/2010/12/12/kyoto-view/

Lovely Kyoto pictures, and it certainly looks like that shinkansen is going up to a 2nd level.


With the track being that high up, what would be underneath the track? I've seen pictures of there being some parking space, bicycle parking space, even a small children's playground.

[Darklighter]

In Toyama the shinkansen tracks will be up to 12.3 m above ground (http://www.pref.toyama.jp/cms_sec/1506/00003011/00342161.pdf , page 5) and I guess that's not an exception.
(Btw., I once planed to model the future Toyama station as it's got lots of potential (Hokuriku Shinkansen, Hokuriku Main Line (double track, electrified), Takayama Main Line (terminus, single track, not electrified), Toyama Light Rail, Toyama Chihō Railway))

With the track being that high up, what would be underneath the track?

Google street view is your friend. ;)

[Dani]

Darklighter, it's not going to be a multi-deck layout as such. I'm just planning on putting some shelves along the wall above the large layout, and use those shelves to set up my mini modules. There won't be a connection from the large layout to the "upper deck" at all.

But think where to mount and helicoidal ramp because when you finish the layout (in 10 years aprox    ) you will want to expand it, and a second shelf level is a very good idea!!!

[Martijn Meerts]

10 years? That's a bit optimistic =)

If I'm building a station in a curve on multiple levels, and a city full of custom buildings, I really need to get me a CNC router or laser cutter.. Would prefer the laster cutter, but the price .......

[The_Ghan]

10 years? That's a bit optimistic =)

If I'm building a station in a curve on multiple levels, and a city full of custom buildings, I really need to get me a CNC router or laser cutter.. Would prefer the laster cutter, but the price .......

I'm sure Dr Evil can sell you one!

Cheers

The_Ghan

[KenS]

Hobby Dreamer, I'm just a bit worried that having the shinkansen some 10cm above ground floor is a bit much. I wonder if there are any prototype shots of a shinkansen line being that high up from ground level in a city...

10 cm is 16m.  I'm not sure of the exact height, but here are a couple of photos of the shinkansen viaduct in Kita ward on the north side of Tokyo, and it sure looks fairly high:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/54416378

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/15466896

It's high enough that it clears highway bridges that go above the lower tracks.  The tracks, for the Tohoku Shinkansen, remain elevated from around Nishi-Nippori station to north of Akabane station (a distance of about 5 miles, stopping at none of the stations it passes), where, still elevated (although much lower) they run into a hillside, tunnel under a shrine, a school, and other buildings, and come out the other side 1600 feet away, still elevated. before crossing a river.

If someone made a model railroad with a shinkansen tunneling through a small hill like that, it would probably look contrived.  But it's real.  You can find it on google maps by following the tracks noth-west from Akabane station.

[Martijn Meerts]

That's just the problem.. While something might exist and look good in prototype, it won't necessarily look good in model :)

Guess I'll have to check with some of the Tomix elevated track I have, see how it might look.

Definitely turning out a lot more difficult to come up with something interesting then I thought ;)

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, the move is complete. Still a ton of boxes to unpack and stuff to sort out and what not. However, I did go and get some accurate measurements of the new train room.

The image shows a very rough idea of the layout sections as I'm considering now.


The thin light green bar is the door. Right now I've removed it, because the hinges were damaged. Not sure I'll put it back in, it's not really necessary.
The thing light blue bar is a window. The red bar to the left of the blue bar is a heating element.

The light grey section is a helix going down several levels to the large hidden yard, which will be located under most of the length of the light green section. The top part of this section will probably be rounded off instead of square like in the sketch.

The light green section is the urban/city part of the layout. It'll stretch out further to the right, covering the helix. The idea is to have a station capable of holding full length trains. I might make it a terminal station for shinkansen and express, and a through station for rural trains. I'll need to figure this out once the track plan starts taking shape.

The blue section is the rural section with mountains and farms and rice fields, as well as some small stations and such. I'm thinking of having a raised shinkansen track going through here, and disappearing in a mountain around the top left of blue section.

The red section should be something like a large servicing terminal, maybe combined with a museum. Another option would be a container terminal or some other freight related stuff. The red section will be rounded off light the grey one.

The yellow section I'm not sure about yet.. Could be a harbor, or something like a tram service station/yard. This section will also be rounded off.

There'll be trams (probably the portrams) running though the urban section.


As for lengths, the wall at the bottom is 607cm. The one at the left is 343.5cm. All sections are 80cm deep, which is quite a lot, but everything will be modules and I'm designing the module legs in such a way that it's real easy to take a module out if needed. The grey and red section is 100cm instead of 80.

The space in the top right will be used for a small desk to install decoders, put together building kits, paint etc. Above the layout will be multiple layers of shelves, some to store all the train cases, some to put small (tram) modules on, etc.












(I have no idea where to start though   )

[KenS]

A couple of thoughts:

1. 80cm is quite deep, and modules that are removable in theory may be too much work to remove easily once wiring is in place.  I built my tables to come apart, but I've only done that once, and don't plan to do it again if I can avoid it.  My tables are 60cm (24") deep, and that's more than enough.  I'm actually coming to believe that 45cm (18") would be better, although there were good reasons for the size I used and it would be hard to get as much track into a smaller table without it looking like just track and no scenery.

2. The one thing I've come to regret is not having visible storage tracks in my design, just the (planned) under-table storage tracks with a helix like yours.  I'm considering adding on some kind of "L" side table that has a large set of storage tracks designed to look like a train yard of some kind.  You might want to think about doing something like that with your red section.

[Martijn Meerts]

Ken, the 80cm might indeed cause some issues/frustration. The way I've got the modular system in my mind though would make it a snap to remove a single module though. All wiring from 1 to the other module will be done using connectors, so it's really just a matter of unplugging the module in question, and lifting it out (in theory anyway ;))

The main reason I'm considering 80 deep, is that my storage yard is 70 deep. The reason for that is that the yard was initially designed for a modular exhibition layout that has modules of 70 deep. Rather than build 2 huge yards, I want to use the exhibition yard with this more static layout as well. In order to that, the modules above the yard need to be around 80. I might end up doing only the light green section 80 deep, and the rest 60 or so. Another reason for 80 deep though, is to make it possible for shinkansen track to do a 180 degree turn without having to resort to using smaller-than-recommended curves.

Since the yard will be able to store full length trains, there's really no room to have it visible without sacrificing a lot of space, and the way the yard will function it would look weird anyway. For the red section I'm really leaning mostly to a good sized servicing terminal + museum, so there'll be visible storage there, albeit mainly for steam. I might do a small station with 2 or 3 terminating tracks near where the red and blue sections meet. That way I can simulate (shorter) steamers pulling in, uncoupling, doing a runaround and then to go the servicing terminal.



Everything is still in general idea stage though, so I definitely appreciate all the comments I can get :)

[CaptOblivious]

I seem to be coming to this party late, but I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.

I'd do a shelf layout, and model a private railway line (none in particular, just something anonymous but recognizable) point to point. It must have enough stations to provide interesting options for realistic operation, i.e., meets between expresses and locals headed the same way, maybe some four track operation. Hankyu between Kyoto and Osaka might be a fun inspiration. Two cities at either terminus, with rural in between to get a nice mix of scenery. But the focus would be on interesting operations: Something to offer a chance for experimenting with different diamonds, computer control tied to the timetable, working to a timetable in cooperation with your dad, that kind of thing.

Anyway, that's what I'd do, in broad strokes.

[scott]

I'd do a shelf layout, and model a private railway line (none in particular, just something anonymous but recognizable) point to point. It must have enough stations to provide interesting options for realistic operation, i.e., meets between expresses and locals headed the same way, maybe some four track operation.

This sounds a lot like what I would do with the space, if the layout was done for my preferences. Maybe around the walls plus a winding around a peninsula in the middle of the room.

[cteno4]

Martijn,

if you want operations and room for scenery i would keep your 0.8m depth. the jrm modules are 0.5m deep and they are a bit limited in some areas for scenery once we got two ground lines and two viaduct lines in there and then some sidings, passing tracks, etc. it would have been nice to have a bit more room, but for a mobile layout we had to limit it at that depth to make sure they would fit thru car doors, etc. 1m is the max you can also reach back over! careful of the corners!

for a home layout it would be nice to have some extra room for scenery so stuff is not right on top of each other. bookshelf layouts are great, but they limit you to what the captain said of a simple point to point with track at a minimum and most all real estate going to scenery, you have sounded like you wanted a more complex track layout in the past with more track. its really what you want lots of track and scenery, just lots of track, or simple track and lots of scenery.

i like your idea of doing this sectional like this (assume its not modular with tracks always ending up in the same places at junctions). this is exactly what i have been planning the last 5 years for my eventual basement empire. my big worry is that if it was not able to come out easy i would be 90% done with the layout and we would move! figure something 1mx2m could easily be crated and moved. only issue then is getting a similar sized room for it to move into, but if that cant happen then maybe a couple of sections get replaces so the others can still fit and you dont start from scratch.

will be fun to watch your evolution here!

congrats on the new diggs as well!

cheers

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Capt, Scott: I'll probably do a shelf layout in addition to the main one. I have too many trains to run on a single layout, and with the main layout being so big, I need to build a modular shelf layout (mini modules) to do something else once in a while. The modules I was planning for the project party were actually the first 2 of a shelf layout idea.


Jeff, I've always like a lot of track on a layout, but slowly I'm moving more towards somewhat more believable track plans and scenery. Of course, with the space available, there'll be quite a lot of track regardless. I'm also going to run a tram through a good part of the city, so there'll be plenty of movement. The hidden yard is 22 tracks, and some tracks are divided into sections so multiple trains can be stored on 1 track. That means I can have quite a lot of trains on the tracks, so there's a lot of variation.

The layout will be in sections, not modules, so there's definitely not going to be some standard I need to stick to :) Also, I doubt I'll be moving any time soon, and if I do move there's a good chance it'll be abroad again. I'd still like to live and work in the US for a while, as well as in Japan. Might never happen, but I'm allowed to have dreams right? :)


One thing I forgot to mention, the layout will be fairly close to the floor (not sure how close yet) for various reasons, which means I can fairly easily reach the hard to get to spots, even when the sections are 80cm deep.

[cteno4]

sounds like you can get both in here with the lower layout being deep and having a lot of track but at 0.8m still room for lots of scenery to help visually take away the massive track but still give you the operations you want. then a shelf layout up higher nearer eye level with minimal track and your mini modules that focus more on detailed scenery!

what an empire!

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Jeff, yeah.. lot of possibilities in the new train room. I'm just wondering where I should put my H0 and 0 scale modules *cough* ;)


I've been thinking of a name for the layout as well, mainly for archival purposes (so I can put all designs and pictures etc. in 1 collection). The name of the street we live now has "vos" in it, which is Dutch for fox.. So I figured maybe something with kitsune could be interesting, especially since I've always liked that word.


Anyways, we've been settling in quite nicely so far. There's still a lot of boxes to be unpacked and sorted, but I really wanted to get started on the new layout as well. Even if it's only to build the frame of the hidden yard sections, and get them on some legs. I'll need to make a lot of very straight cuts, and also a lot of mitre cuts, so I'm looking at getting something like http://www.toolstop.co.uk/metabo-kgs216m-laser-slide-compound-mitre-saw-240v-2011-model-p14637 to make it easier on myself.


A potential problem with getting started though, is that I still haven't most of the new track I'll be using for the layout. I've only found some of the flex tracks, but none of the turnouts =)

[cteno4]

Anyways, we've been settling in quite nicely so far. There's still a lot of boxes to be unpacked and sorted, but I really wanted to get started on the new layout as well. Even if it's only to build the frame of the hidden yard sections, and get them on some legs. I'll need to make a lot of very straight cuts, and also a lot of mitre cuts, so I'm looking at getting something like http://www.toolstop.co.uk/metabo-kgs216m-laser-slide-compound-mitre-saw-240v-2011-model-p14637 to make it easier on myself.

compound miter saws are great for layout stuff. very versatile for small framing material, but lets you do very compound angle cuts or wider thinner stuff. probably the best bang for the buck and space for a saw. table saws are great, but require a lot more room. a mitre saw like this you can hang on the wall to keep it out of the way. beware though they are a bit like radial arm saws in that the sliding blade means watch your fingers. a laser guide really helps remind you where the blade will be going! sounds like being an old maid, but i know three very careful/skilled shop guys with various fingers missing...

A potential problem with getting started though, is that I still haven't most of the new track I'll be using for the layout. I've only found some of the flex tracks, but none of the turnouts =)

LOL im still finding stuff from the move 10 years ago! good luck!

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Yeah, once you get comfortable using a power tool, its easy to ignore/forget the safety precautions. The moderns saws have a good amount of protection, but I'll definitely be careful.

The saw has been ordered. Went with a local hardware store rather than ordering online. They had to order it, but I got a nice discount, plus it's just so much easier to return it to a local store rather than having to mail it back. Of course, one shouldn't expect to have to return it, but still :)

[Mudkip Orange]

Yeah, I'd definitely roll with 80cm modules vs 60.

How long as the wall at the top before it notches out for the door? I'm thinking I may try to throw something together in XTrakCad. Also - what track manufacturer(s) will you be using?

[Dani]

Yeah, once you get comfortable using a power tool, its easy to ignore/forget the safety precautions. The moderns saws have a good amount of protection, but I'll definitely be careful.

The saw has been ordered. Went with a local hardware store rather than ordering online. They had to order it, but I got a nice discount, plus it's just so much easier to return it to a local store rather than having to mail it back. Of course, one shouldn't expect to have to return it, but still :)

Good tool Martijn!! I also have a 1500W telescopic SAW. It's exactly the same but seems they changed the brand name. It cuts perfect angles, it's extremely precise and cuts are clean.
But I will never say enough times BE CAREFUL. It's as you mentioned, when you use it for a continuous time it's very easy to feel safe and relax....
I remember one day cutting one long piece of wood (difficult to have any problem because my hands weren't close to the saw and piece was quite heavy), just in the twinkling of an eye the wood flew away and my fingers got really close to the saw. The wood had a nail inside and the saw strength made it literally fly away. Now I always hold the wood firmly and don't relax.

It's not something to scare because it's true that it has a lot of safety, but never relax. Sometimes it's not the saw what can hurt you.

[Martijn Meerts]

Mudkip, the wall there is about 4 meters. It's actually a little longer, but I want a bit of a  margin in case I put the door back in :) For track, I'm using Peco code 55.


Dani, yeah, it's real easy to get hurt, especially with the (semi-)stationary tools like that. I used to work as a car mechanic, so I know a little about being careful, but even there I've seen plenty accidents. The one advantage is that I won't be using the saw daily, so I'll probably never be completely relaxed when using it.

[CaptOblivious]

Dani, lucky! My father did some very nasty (but thankfully, reparable) things to his hand when he took his circular saw for granted one day. Very nearly lost the whole damned thing. You'd never know to see it now, but dear god…

Yeah, once you get comfortable using a power tool, its easy to ignore/forget the safety precautions. The moderns saws have a good amount of protection, but I'll definitely be careful.

The saw has been ordered. Went with a local hardware store rather than ordering online. They had to order it, but I got a nice discount, plus it's just so much easier to return it to a local store rather than having to mail it back. Of course, one shouldn't expect to have to return it, but still :)

Good tool Martijn!! I also have a 1500W telescopic SAW. It's exactly the same but seems they changed the brand name. It cuts perfect angles, it's extremely precise and cuts are clean.
But I will never say enough times BE CAREFUL. It's as you mentioned, when you use it for a continuous time it's very easy to feel safe and relax....
I remember one day cutting one long piece of wood (difficult to have any problem because my hands weren't close to the saw and piece was quite heavy), just in the twinkling of an eye the wood flew away and my fingers got really close to the saw. The wood had a nail inside and the saw strength made it literally fly away. Now I always hold the wood firmly and don't relax.

It's not something to scare because it's true that it has a lot of safety, but never relax. Sometimes it's not the saw what can hurt you.

[Martijn Meerts]

Here's an overview with dimension, might make it easier for those wanting to give a track plan a go .. For now, I'm still aiming for 80cm depth. All numbers in centimeters.

[Mudkip Orange]

Will Peco 55 work with Japanese pizza cutters?

[Martijn Meerts]

For the most part, yes.. I don't have that many Japanese trains that have pizza cutter wheels actually.

[Bernard]

Will Peco 55 work with Japanese pizza cutters?

I have one section of my layout where I used Micro-Engineering code 55 and all of my Kato & Tomix trains have no problems with the track. Even some of my Minitrix trains are fine on code 55, which was a surprise to me.
I have to wonder how a Shinkansen at high speed would be on code 55. 

[cteno4]

I believe all of curt's layout is code 55 (i think me) and his trains run fine at speed. only issues with some derailments are things like engines with a third center bogie on points or places like road crossing where scenery comes up around the rails. i think he had worked out all these odd spots though for the most part. maybe he will chime in here after hes back from vacation.

jeff

[Dani]

Sorry for my ignorance... what is pizza cutter wheels?

I'm also using Peco code 55 (I'm in love with that track after Fleishmann and Minitrix, no experience in Kato or Tomix) and I have no problems running Minitrix (BR260), Kato EMU (Mangattan Linner, Chuo line, ...), Kato express (10-352 JR Express Series 181) or Fleishmann stream engines with tender. But I don't know if they are equipped with this "pizza cutter wheels"...   

Thanks,
Dani.

[Martijn Meerts]

Bernard, it'd be fine as long as the track is straight.. Probably also a good idea to solder them as much as possible.


Jeff, Curt's layout looked like Peco. I remember having a good look at the turnouts. Noticed they used servos as well. They're probably code 55.


Dani, "pizza cutter wheels" are wheels with huge flanges, which makes them look like pizza cutters. Mostly old trains and some of the cheaper brands have these.

[Kamiyacho]

Yes, my layout is Peco code 55.  Works well when you stay on top of the maintenance.  I run pretty much all Kato trains/locos with Kato and MA freight cars.