Japan Train Enthusiasts Tour

[mich1409]

Hi, I'm a travel wholesaler that specialises in Japan travel and am looking into making a Japan train enthusiasts tour, but make it really niche.
If you were to take this tour, which area of trains would you like the tour to focus on?

Feedback greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.

[keitaro]

I'm not interested in the newer stock. More in with the older dmu's. Also riding the d51 498 would be a bonus.

More rural limes as well.

Anyone can do the city stuff.

Of course you always have to include the Shinkansen in all travel to get to a destination to kick start the tour.

[mich1409]

Thank you Keitaro-san, will certainly keep that in mind :)

[Shashinka]

The more trains I can see, shoot, the better, the more station bentos the better as well.

[mich1409]

Oh yes, the station bentos, very important! Thank you Monorail Cat-san!

[bikkuri bahn]

I'm with Keitaro- focus on the older stuff, including soon to be retired rolling stock- even if some of the participants are not cognizant of the specifics of each type, later on (perhaps years later) the pics they take will be nice historical records- look at the numerous videos forum member Westfalen has posted on early JR 90's era trains.  There will be plenty of chances to ride and photograph the modern stuff in "positioning" moves as well as during free time in the big cities.  Another point is to choose a location that has at least two attractions to it, for example, scenic quality and unique rolling stock, or traffic volume and variety of stock, unique stock and special operations, etc.

other suggestions:
-JR freight: choose a high volume mainline (e.g. Sanyo line), or one with unique character (Yokkaichi area with d51 tanker trains, senohachi pusher locos on Sanyo line out of Hiroshima)

-local lines: 1.Kominato Rlwy in Chiba highly recommended, 2. any line with kiha 40's- an explanation of this iconic type would be valuable to tour participants, 3. Koumi line for mountains and Hybrid railcar, combined with a ride on Chuo Line local trains out of Kofu would be great, return via Nagano Shinkansen or the bus down to Yokokawa and the railway museum there 4. Obasute station switchback- schdule it so you can catch the EH200 tanker coming through

-an "operations day": focus on a busy junction where volume and diverse operating patterns can be easily observed.  

-try to squeeze an depot open day in your itinerary, if possible

-supporting documentation is a big plus and value add to a tour: background data and history, copies of "daiya" of the line visited, a commentary of a typical hour of the line/junction

[mich1409]

wow great info! Thanks Bikkuri Bahn-san! Good idea to focus on the older stuff before they retire.

[bikkuri bahn]

Let me add:
-a single track main line with relatively heavy traffic, for example the Sanin Line past Sonobe to Fukuchiyama, or even the Nara Line.  I find the operations of local trains pulling into station sidings to let ltd. expresses and other faster trains pass fascinating.  Even a double track line such as the Hanwa Line is good as it has timed overtakes (and the bonus of the iconic 103 series still in operation).

-"rail for rail", the Kansai area has more rail enthusiast interest than Kanto, and the area is a bit more compact and concentrated.  Also, any (albeit irrational) fears of radiation are moot here. Historically and touristically, Kansai wins hands down.

[keitaro]

right in my families neighbourhood heh :D

[mich1409]

yeah, agreed re: radiation fears. what about railway in kyushu? this was something i was initially going to add in the itinerary, any thoughts?

[gmat]

Would it be with family and if so, when the train buffs are shooting at stations, would a separate venue for the wives be useful? For example shopping or cultural attractions or visit interesting eating places. Would guys be open to shooting at stations in the evening?

There are also a lot of Japanese programs that do visiting local areas. You might get some interesting ideas.
Could you get or allow locals, Japanese or expats to join up when you swing near their neck of the woods?

Best wishes,
Grant

[mich1409]

Thanks Grant, I really didn't think of the children and the wives! I'll have a chat with my supplier if I can get the locals to join when we visit them. Do you mean just for the day or from that point on?

[bikkuri bahn]

what about railway in kyushu?

Others on this forum likely have been there more than me.  However, IMO it's better for the more modern rolling stock as well as for the unique JR Kyushu designs and paint schemes- JR Kyushu(unlike JR west) seems less keen on keeping older JNR era stock running or in their original paint schemes.  It does have a couple of very interesting switchback stations, one which I will visit later this month (the Okoba Loop/switchback) along with a ride on the new Shinkansen line to Kagoshima.  Moji Station is a very interesting terminal station which also has a small railway museum.  The nearby Kanmon Tunnel and AC/DC current change point is ferroquinologically significant.

[gmat]

I'm thinking that there are guys living in Japan who might be able to take some time off, especially on the weekends to travel with the tour, but also perhaps near their local area. Also perhaps we might interest Japanese members of train clubs who may want a chance to meet foreigners. Don't know anyone like that, but perhaps others might.
People who have traveled here with their wives might have a better idea if they'd prefer to split off at the station and do something different.
I guess that the problem is that to get in as many trains as possible, you're mostly riding the trains to and from someplace or waiting at a station for a connection. I did that with my weekend trip north and then west of Tokyo.

BBest wishes,
Grant

[mich1409]

Thank you Bikkuri Bahn-san, you're wealth of knowledge, truly appreciate it!

[mich1409]

Thank you Grant, yes, looking after wives and children might be a tricky thing I hadn't considered. Mingling with the locals is a great idea, I'll look into it. Thanks again!

[linkey]

I wish there was an all of the above tick box for the poll as I would be doing that! :D

[mich1409]

Hi Linkey-san, Yes, wouldn't that be ideal! BTW, when the tour is made, to show my appreciation to everyone who has answered my questions, there will be an exclusive discount for people who would like to go on the tour so all your efforts are definitely not taken for granted! Thanks so much!

[Martijn Meerts]

I just like trains in general, regardless of whether they're old, new, Japanese, or some other country. (Of course, there's designs I don't like, but hey :))

If I were to go to Japan and concentrate purely on trains, I think I'd prefer to travel through most of the country by train rather than go train spotting or sit on a particular station all day. I'd also add some days at certain places to visit some sites such as train museums, but also things like the Hiroshima memorial, 1 or more old temples and/or castles, and of course the Ghibli museum =)

Of course, for me it's a LONG flight to Japan, which means if I go I would have to stay at the very least 2 weeks, preferably 3 or 4 weeks though. Doing only train related stuff during those weeks would just be too much, hence the temples/castles/ghibli museum/etc.

[mich1409]

Thank you Martijin Meerts-san, I wasn't too sure whether some sightseeing should be included so you put my mind at ease! My initial plan is a 2 week tour with an extra week extension plan for those who want to stay so good to hear some re-assurance. Thanks again!

[westfalen]

I'm not interested in the newer stock. More in with the older dmu's. Also riding the d51 498 would be a bonus.

More rural limes as well.

Anyone can do the city stuff.

Of course you always have to include the Shinkansen in all travel to get to a destination to kick start the tour.

I'd go on a tour like this.

[Kumo]

I would also enjoy tours of the different depot, train related facilities, etc.

[westfalen]

I would also enjoy tours of the different depot, train related facilities, etc.

Yes, places individuals might not have the contacts to get into. When I was on the Trains Unlimited German tour in 2008 we visited the DB diesel shops at Cotbus, a place normally strictly off limits.

I've started a thread a while back about this years Trainaway Tours trip to Japan to give an idea what a Japanese tour could be like, they try to accomodate those who just like train travel as well as railfans but by everyone having a railpass you are free to go off on your own on days the group are doing something you would not be interested in.

I find a lot of professional railfan oriented tour operators are not interested in places without steam.

[Nick_Burman]

Mich, I have yet to visit Japan, however a friend of mine (Prof. John Kirchner from Pasadena, CA) travels to Japan regularly, including leading tour groups of US railfans. By and large, most US visitors think that Japan is Shinkansen and lookalike MU cars on suburban runs, so whatever tour you run must dispel these impressions. So I would suggest the following:

- Steam: Oigawa, Paleo Express, Mooka Railway, Aso Boy, any of these will do. By far the Oigawa is more "authentic", with locomotives hauling real old-time coaches. Plus the scenery, of course;

- Trolley cars: Try hiring a trolley car in any of the big systems for a morning or an afternoon. Most systems will not say "no" to hiring a car, although management might be a bit bemused with the offer (as it happened with John in Sapporo: "OK, we will do it, however why hire our preserved car if you can ride it any day of the week for the price of a normal ticket?" said the G.M.). The Hankai Tramway would be a sure winner if you could lay your hands on one of their big 1920's center-door cars, it would give those folks who remember the Pacific Electric "Hollywood" cars a big lump in the throat;

- Freight;

- Lines with older rolling stock, especially those whose trains still emit traditional traction sounds;

- Rural lines, after all, Japan isn't all skyscrapers and conurbations. If the line is scenic, even better;

- Museums: Saitama, Umekoji;

- Oddballs: Utsube, Hokusei and Hachioji lines (762mm gauge electrics), Kurobe Gorge Railway (ditto, with the scenery added), Tateyama Sabo (at least a visit to their op base as riding the line would be very difficult to arrange), Oigawa Ikawa Line, etc...

The modern stuff you can work into the schedule as part of going from point A to B to C.


Cheers NB

[mich1409]

Thank you Westfalen-san, yes, I've read your thread about the Trainaway Tours it was a great place to start to get some ideas. Absolutely, something exclusive would be a fantastic option. I was initially thinking of doing a 2 week tour and then 1 week optional for people who want to travel longer on Cassiopeia or Hokutosei as tickets are hard to get if you live overseas. Would that be of something interest? Having the railpass to give freedom to tourgoers is a good idea, I will keep that in mind thanks again!

[mich1409]

Thank you Kumo-san, I will definitely try to include the depot as that is what everyone is saying!

[mich1409]

Thank you Nick, I'm absolutely all about going the non-stereo typical approach, so I'm totally with you. Hiring a car is something that I haven't thought of, though its a great idea. I'll have a chat with my supplier about that. Great suggestions, thanks again! Once I've got the rough itinerary, I'll post it in a new topic to see what you guys think.

[tsubasa119]

I couldn't agree more with all the comments that everyone has made.
Definately options that average people without contacts couldn't do (Depots etc) would be a big drawcard.

Regards,
Allastair

[westfalen]

Thank you Nick, I'm absolutely all about going the non-stereo typical approach, so I'm totally with you. Hiring a car is something that I haven't thought of, though its a great idea. I'll have a chat with my supplier about that. Great suggestions, thanks again! Once I've got the rough itinerary, I'll post it in a new topic to see what you guys think.

In 1990, on a tour run by the guys who now run Trainaway Tours, we hired the party tram in the video below (starts around 5:00) in Hakodate. We stumbled upon it by accident while a small group of us were snooping around the tram sheds. When we asked what it was we were told we could hire it for 16,000 yen, luckily I had just cashed some travelers cheques at the hotel, so while they rounded up a driver we bought supplies at a nearby supermarket and phoned the rest of the group at the hotel and told them to meet us at the tram stop down the street but didn't tell them what we were doing, they got quite a surprise when we turned up in our tram with the music playing. We cruised around Hakodate's tram system until 10:30 when the driver said he had to get back to the depot before the power was switched off for the night, he even parked outside a 7-11 and liquor store at the end of one of the routes for a while so we could restock our party supplies.

I don't know if Hakodate still has the 'tram for hire' or if other cities do but it would be certainly worth asking.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/w9iJNo-SzjA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/w9iJNo-SzjA</a>

[westfalen]

Having the railpass to give freedom to tourgoers is a good idea, I will keep that in mind thanks again!

On the 1998 Trainaway Tour I announced my plan to wander off on my own one day on what was scheduled to be a free day in Tokyo and ended up with a dozen people coming with me on a Shinkansen to Niigata to ride what was left of the Niigata Kotsu and back to Tokyo via the Tadami Line and Aizu-Wakamatsu.

[Toni Babelony]

In 1990, on a tour run by the guys who now run Trainaway Tours, we hired the party tram in the video below (starts around 5:00) in Hakodate. We stumbled upon it by accident while a small group of us were snooping around the tram sheds. When we asked what it was we were told we could hire it for 16,000 yen, luckily I had just cashed some travelers cheques at the hotel, so while they rounded up a driver we bought supplies at a nearby supermarket and phoned the rest of the group at the hotel and told them to meet us at the tram stop down the street but didn't tell them what we were doing, they got quite a surprise when we turned up in our tram with the music playing. We cruised around Hakodate's tram system until 10:30 when the driver said he had to get back to the depot before the power was switched off for the night, he even parked outside a 7-11 and liquor store at the end of one of the routes for a while so we could restock our party supplies.

That's extremely cool and pretty cheap as well! I'm sure there are more of these trains/trams running around in Japan.

What I want to do on an Enthusiasts Tour is a about the same. If it's with a group, I'd like to hire a 'Beer Train', like you see on the Ichibata RR, or without a group, just ride that train like a boss and make new friends.

[mich1409]

Thank you Allastair-san! Thats absolutely something I'd be looking into.

[mich1409]

Thanks again westfalen-san! That idea is such a great idea, will certainly ask ppl in Japan if I can do that as either welcoming or farewell surprise. It would be an awesome experience for people to make friends and 16,000JPY is nothing!

[mich1409]

Thanks Toni Babelony-san! Haha Beer Train, love the name!

[Shashinka]

what about railway in kyushu?

Others on this forum likely have been there more than me.  However, IMO it's better for the more modern rolling stock as well as for the unique JR Kyushu designs and paint schemes- JR Kyushu(unlike JR west) seems less keen on keeping older JNR era stock running or in their original paint schemes.  It does have a couple of very interesting switchback stations, one which I will visit later this month (the Okoba Loop/switchback) along with a ride on the new Shinkansen line to Kagoshima.  Moji Station is a very interesting terminal station which also has a small railway museum.  The nearby Kanmon Tunnel and AC/DC current change point is ferroquinologically significant.

I'll throw my hat in to the ring when it comes to Kyushu. Their operations seem to be more like the US then Japan's. Get outside of the Fukuoka or Nagasaki and things become a lot more lax. I remember the last trip to Miyazaki, my friend was concerned that I may have a long wait along the main line for trains as they run "infrequent" Well, infrequent means every fifteen minutes. Kogoshima adds some interesting railway travels as well to one itinerary.

[mich1409]

Thank you Monorail Cat-san! Haha, yes, Japanese version of infrequency equates to anything you have to wait more than 5 min. Good to know JR Kyushu is not that much of an interest as I thought it would be. Thanks again!

[westfalen]

15 minutes between trains is positively rush hour. On my trip in November I'm planing to ride the JR Sankō Line in Western Honshu, the only departures from Miyoshi of the five daily that will get you all the way to Gōtsu are 0547, 0957 and 1700 and of those only the 0547 is a through train, the 0957 I'm planning on taking involves a 1hr43m wait at Iwami-Kawamoto, a town Wikipedia say has a population of 4,513 so Tokyo it ain't. One section in the middle of the route has a ten hour gap between trains in one direction.

I'll be heading for Miyazaki too, to do the Nichinan Line. As you might have guessed, I like getting off the beaten track.

[Toni Babelony]

15 minutes is quite frequent. I remember one time in Shinjo, Tôhoku, where I had to wait 1,5 hours for a connection to Omagari. Enough time to explore Shinjo in all it's boringness. I was on a round tour from Jinmachi (Ôu-line), Shinjo, Omagari, Kitakami, Sendai, Yamagata to Jinmachi. Took about a day, since I didn't plan properly ahead (plus it was in the time just before the massive rise of the internets).

[cteno4]

Michi san,

this sounds really interesting! i would love to do a 7-10 day intensive train tour in japan. My preference would be to travel on and see a good variety of trains, stations, regions and maybe a rail museum. im interesting in seeing a good variety rather than trying to totally do one region, line, etc and get very minute detail. if i really wanted to do something detailed i could plan that myself and i think you may find it a very small market that would want a particular detailed trip, perhaps something to do in the future once you have built up a client base.

some photography is fine, but i am in it more for the experience than waiting for a lot of perfect photos (which can take time). Would like the cost to be reasonable by staying in clean, but more inexpensive hotels or inns. i would not feel the need to stay in nicer hotels as this part of a trip would only use the hotel for sleeping, rest of the time out on trains. Same goes for food, simple, fun local food is great on a trip like this and very fast and economical compared to nice restaurants. I would probably tack on a week of my own travel/touring on one end of a rail tour like this.

the suggestion of seeing if some local train enthusiasts come along to interact for a day here or there would be wonderful!

if the tour were to begin or end in tokyo you might think of an optional day tour of train hobby shops in tokyo. its always a challenge to find them hidden away all over the place! perhaps some of a local train club might want to come along or we meet up with some of them for dinner that night at a hobby shop or restaurant with a train layout!

looking forward to what you start planning!

cheers

jeff

[Shashinka]

Same here, Michi-sama. Assuming the economy gets better. I had a 14 day itinerary planned for this year that got canned due to the exchange rate coupled with capital investment costs related to new camera gear acquisitions for work.

[westfalen]

if the tour were to begin or end in tokyo you might think of an optional day tour of train hobby shops in tokyo. its always a challenge to find them hidden away all over the place! perhaps some of a local train club might want to come along or we meet up with some of them for dinner that night at a hobby shop or restaurant with a train layout!

Trainaway Tours usually plan a day or two around Tokyo at the start of the tour to allow first timers to acclimatise to Japan and a day or two free at the end to allow members of the group to do any last minute shopping or whatever.

[mich1409]

Hi Westfalen-san, Oh yes absolutely. Whenever I travel in Kyushu, I really plan my trip as winging it is not the thing to do over there. Would love to hear what you thought of Miyazaki!

[mich1409]

Toni Babelony-san, you poor thing! Killing 1.5 hours in a place like that would be a nightmare, totally sympathize you there.

[mich1409]

Thank you Jeff! Thats really insightful. Interacting with the local train enthusiasts is a popular idea here so I might see if this is possible. Though, language could be a bit of an obstacle! Absolutely keeping the accomm & food cost down is something I will be aiming but I am trying to look for a hotel with a view of trains or stations too for photo opportunity of different angle. Train hobby shop is a great idea, perhaps this can be an optional thing on a free day. Thanks again!

[mich1409]

Monorail Cat-san, Absolutely, exchange rate has been a killer. Really does make everything seem that much more expensive! I am planning to include as much as possible in the tour to avoid too much local expenses.

[mich1409]

Thanks again westfalen-san! Having the first and last day free is absolute must, definitely. Thank you for your continuous flow of ideas.

[clem24]

And don't forget to top it all off with a train-only shopping day extravaganza where additional discounts are negotiated beforehand with all shop owners along with a servant to carry our loot back to the hotel...

[mich1409]

Thank you Clem24-san, yes, shopping day will definitely be included but exclusive discount is a great idea, thanks again!

[Martijn Meerts]

So, for when is the first annual "Mich presents: JNS Forum Japan Train Travel Extravaganza" planned? :)


I do wonder how many forum members would sign up if the trip were well planned and people had enough time to plan holidays and save up the necessary funds...

[clem24]

Oh, and wives are banned.