Light Rail coming to Honolulu

[gmat]

I've recently started paying attention to this. Might be of some interest to some.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/114169184.html

For earlier articles from the Honolulu Star Advertiser:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/about/Star-Advertiser_Search_Results.html?cx=partner-pub-9695435974299667%3Au66wqtuct3j&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=honolulu+rail+system+&sa.x=35&sa.y=6&sa=Go&siteurl=www.staradvertiser.com%2Fnews%2Fbreaking%2F114169184.html

I think that it will be over budget, expensive to use, and not reach important areas, but it will be better in the long run than present bus/car system. It should have been done when it was first proposed in the 60s, when the Federal Government had more money to help out.

Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu_High-Capacity_Transit_Corridor_Project

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Update:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110119_Rail_gets_OK_to_break_ground.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[Nick_Burman]

Update:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110119_Rail_gets_OK_to_break_ground.html

Best wishes,
Grant

I wonder if the trains will have space for surfboards...

Cheers NB

[gmat]

Going the wrong direction unless they are going to Waikiki Beach, I guess.

Another item on the fight to fund it with the new Congress:


http://www.khon2.com/news/local/story/Will-Republican-House-Fund-Honolulu-Rail-Project/kzvNFqc87EqSMm0d1Drsog.cspx

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

There has been a debate about the merits of an elevated versus ground rail system as well as a steel wheel on steel rail versus maglev system.
One article:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20101227_not_too_late_for_oahu_mag_lev_rail.html

Some thoughts if gas goes up to $5.00 a gallon in 2012:

http://www.examiner.com/transportation-in-honolulu/5-a-gallon-of-gas

Link to the Honolulu Rail Transit Homepage, also showing a map of the proposed line:

http://www.honolulutransit.org/

From Yes2rail with a sketch of a proposed Pearl Highlands station. (or Pearl City/Highlands)  Also information on OTEC, using ocean temperature differentials to generate electricity to power the rail system.

http://yes2rail.blogspot.com/2010/11/pbn-sees-future-with-rail-and-ocean.html

Another page from Yes2rail. Sketch of the station next to Leeward Community College:

http://yes2rail.blogspot.com/2010/07/design-contract-awarded-for-three-rail.html

Excerpts from a FTA study of the Honolulu Rail Transit coming in on budget, from Honolulutraffic. Graphs and numbers, but it seems that it will most likely be under 9.3 Billion, but the effects of the new Republican controlled House is unclear:
Article:
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/ten-percent-chance-honolulu-rail-costs-will-go-over-9-3-billion

From FTA report:
http://www.honolulutraffic.com/FTA_cost_probabilities.pdf

Map with proposed extensions. Hu Hu is Hawaiian and roughly translates to getting angry or bothered. Ohana is your family and maybe like your friendly neighborhood.

http://www.gorailgo.org/benefits-of-mass-transit.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Earlier overview from LightRailNow, dated Feb.2010:

http://www.lightrailnow.org/news/n_hon_2010-02a.htm

From Honolulu Rail Transit, transit station designs:

http://www.movingusforward.net/archives/270

From the TransportPolitic, dated Jan. 2010. Some interesting information on the benefits of an elevated system versus a cheaper ground based system. Includes information on the population densities of Southern Oahu Island:

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/11/its-governor-lingle-versus-mayor-hannemann-on-honolulu-rail-project/

From :Lehighvalleylive.com, on "Have the Bridges to Nowhere Killed Our Will to Think Big?," and why things aren't getting done:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/today/index.ssf/2010/10/have_the_bridges_to_nowhere_ki.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[Mudkip Orange]

Oahu always seemed ideal for rail transit, since it's small, population is either sparse or densely packed, and oh yeah IT'S A FREAKING ISLAND so even car ownership doesn't yield the mobility and freedom that it does in the continental US.

That said, would someone please explain to me what the benefit is of building a fully grade-separated rail system but only using short, "light rail" sized trains and platforms?

[gmat]

I would suspect that it might be that it will be easier to upgrade the trains and extend the platforms in the future, but it would be extremely difficult to fund such a system now. Building light rail sized platforms may face problems in expanding capacity in the future. Another possibility is that they are squeezing every last bit of benefit for the construction industry.
One problem was that when the State was trying to get the mass transit system started in the 70s, the City had a minority Republican Mayor but the State was largely Democratic. As the system would have been run by the City, it would have put power in the hands of the Mayor. By the time that it had changed, the Federal money had largely dried up or was tied into a Republican Administration. Unless it connected with Defense projects, Hawaii has often been the odd man out. At the same time, there was a huge fight between pro and anti H-3 Highway groups. It survived as it also happens to run from Pearl Harbor to the Marine base at Kaneohe Bay, facilitating movement of troops and equipment to the Navy base, which was the genesis of that highway.
Others might have a better information.
Best wishes,
Grant

[brill27mcb]

Oahu always seemed ideal for rail transit, since it's small, population is either sparse or densely packed, and oh yeah IT'S A FREAKING ISLAND so even car ownership doesn't yield the mobility and freedom that it does in the continental US.

That said, would someone please explain to me what the benefit is of building a fully grade-separated rail system but only using short, "light rail" sized trains and platforms?

There are many benefits. First, it's an affordable foot-in-the-door. Second, if you design it to be upgradable in train and platform length, it's a "pre-metro." Third, if you run light rail (or metro), especially on a dedicated line (non-interchange railroad, non-Federal Railroad Administration), with the same staffing costs you can run frequent services with one-man "operators" instead of infrequent heavier trains with an engineer, a conductor, etc. The best service is the kind where you don't need a schedule because it is so frequent. You can also get the service closer into the downtown, even on the streets.

There was a hypothetical analysis done here in the Philadelphia area by a consultant friend of mine, applying U.S. federal "new start" requirements to SEPTA's existing regional rail commuter lines. Almost all of them would fail to meet "new start" requirements, based on their actual ridership levels. For the same staff cost, or less, a more attractive "light rail" version of them could provide service every 20 minutes off-peak, versus a single hourly full-size, two-car train with crew of three.

Rich K.

[gmat]

Editorial from the Honolulu Star Advertiser on the need for community involvement in planning the stations:

Rail reality requires public input
http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110120_Rail_reality_requires_public_input.html


brill27mcb, do you mean to say that the system adopted by Hawaii with a regular rail system with light rail tracks and platform would be better or that a sole light rail system would be better? Sorry it wasn't clear to me. Appreciate your input.
Best wishes,
Grant

[bikkuri bahn]

I think brill meant the latter (exclusively light rail).  First of all, I don't think reviving freight rail on Oahu is a feasible idea, given the size of the island.  Secondly, having a railroad style line, you are subject to all sorts of onerous FRA regulations.  By having exclusively light rail, and extensive elevated portions of track, you are freed from restrictive regulations that would hamper operations as well as acquisistion of efficient and affordable rolling stock, in addition to the improved frequencies (or ability to expand) as brill mentioned.

[gmat]

Thanks for the clarification, bikkuribahn. Does that mean that Hawaii is overspending on the transit system?
Best wishes,
Grant

[bikkuri bahn]

Thanks for the clarification, bikkuribahn. Does that mean that Hawaii is overspending on the transit system?
Best wishes,
Grant

I don't know about overspending, being unfamiliar with this project, but I've read that infrastructure projects in the U.S. tend to be extremely expensive, even more so than in Japan.  Something to do with bidding processes, unions, and contractor behavior.

[gmat]

Possibly with the dearth of investment in infrastructure for the past 30 40 years and the recent outflow of jobs, public projects might shoulder a greater share of providing patronage/revenue/wages for politicians, companies and workers. In Hawaii, the Federal/State Government was and probably still is one of the two main pillars of the economy. Sugar/Pineapple is a ghost of its former self.
Not very well versed on the subject either.
Best wishes,
Grant

[Mudkip Orange]

Philly is an odd duck because you have all these legacy rail systems that have enough ridership to stave off abandonment, but not enough ridership to justify/amortize the cost of any significant improvement. Some of the SEPTA regional rail lines - Cynwyd, Chestnut Hill East, Chestnut Hill West - couldn't even be justified as a light rail line if you were starting from scratch.

Come up with your innovative Philly transit idea - connect the P&W to the Market-Frankford, build the Swampoodle connection, restart your favorite trolley route - and a bit of time spent in Excel can tell you why it doesn't pencil out.

Of course the flipside to operating such a static, historical system is that the few improvements that -would- make sense - extending a spur off the P&W or the PRR Main Line to KoP, for instance - will probably never happen either. Same holds true for the roads (prediction: in 2040, the Schuylkill is still two lanes with crap shoulders). It's a dying city, but it has such a storied and glorious history that it'll never be able to take the steps that are necessary to adjust, like Detroit is doing.

Oahu always seemed ideal for rail transit, since it's small, population is either sparse or densely packed, and oh yeah IT'S A FREAKING ISLAND so even car ownership doesn't yield the mobility and freedom that it does in the continental US.

That said, would someone please explain to me what the benefit is of building a fully grade-separated rail system but only using short, "light rail" sized trains and platforms?

There are many benefits. First, it's an affordable foot-in-the-door. Second, if you design it to be upgradable in train and platform length, it's a "pre-metro." Third, if you run light rail (or metro), especially on a dedicated line (non-interchange railroad, non-Federal Railroad Administration), with the same staffing costs you can run frequent services with one-man "operators" instead of infrequent heavier trains with an engineer, a conductor, etc. The best service is the kind where you don't need a schedule because it is so frequent. You can also get the service closer into the downtown, even on the streets.

There was a hypothetical analysis done here in the Philadelphia area by a consultant friend of mine, applying U.S. federal "new start" requirements to SEPTA's existing regional rail commuter lines. Almost all of them would fail to meet "new start" requirements, based on their actual ridership levels. For the same staff cost, or less, a more attractive "light rail" version of them could provide service every 20 minutes off-peak, versus a single hourly full-size, two-car train with crew of three.

Rich K.

[gmat]

Some support for the project from a Republican House member:

Key Republican in U.S. House backs Honolulu's rail project
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/114337849.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Some recent news:

Council approves permit for city's rail project
Not much interesting here.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/114690019.html


From TransportPolitic:
Is Elevated Acceptable?

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/19/is-elevated-acceptable/

It compares the elevated versus a ground rail system. It also notes that the elevated rail permits automated cars.

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

A powerful new 10-member panel to oversee and operate rail will be determined by July

http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110130_Next_Stop_Rail_transit_authority.html

Readers comments are interesting.
How is it in other areas?
Grant

[gmat]

Politics as usual.

'Former Gov. Ben Cayetano led several groups in blasting Honolulu's rail plans.'

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110201_Cayetano_leads_anti-rail_charge.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[bikkuri bahn]

Readers comments are interesting.
How is it in other areas?

The level of commentary is better than the usual- you don't see so much of the knee-jerk "boondoggle" teabaggeresque stuff common on mainland comment threads.  It's sad, but infrastructure projects, especially transit and rail ones, in particular, are so hyper-politicized in the United States.  It seems to me that it is the result of bigger powers behind the scenes battling to keep the status quo, auto-centric suburban model (big oil, numerous conservative groups) versus groups trying to prepare for the peak oil scenario, and giving people choices in transport. Thank God I live in Japan, at least transportation-wise.

[gmat]

Thank you for your comments, BikkuriBahn.


Brief article on Hawaiian Burial site Lawsuit:
Lawsuit claims rail endangers burial sites
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110202_Lawsuit_claims_rail_endangers_burial_sites.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[Mudkip Orange]

Said the same thing about the H3 when they tried to build that.

Dig 'em up.

[gmat]

Moving fast in Honolulu.
"Rail ready to break ground"

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110212_rail_ready_to_break_ground.html

From Hawaii News Now, with a short video news segment, with some computer animation that has a segment of the rail running.

Groundbreaking set for city's controversial rail project
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=14017530


Grant

[gmat]

Part of the 1.3 billion Transit Projects Fund.
Obama budget seeks $250M for Oahu rail:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110215_Obama_budget_seeks_250M_for_Oahu_rail.html

Grant

[bikkuri bahn]

Part of the 1.3 billion Transit Projects Fund.
Obama budget seeks $250M for Oahu rail:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110215_Obama_budget_seeks_250M_for_Oahu_rail.html

Grant

Punahou kid does good...

[Mudkip Orange]

Part of the 1.3 billion Transit Projects Fund.
Obama budget seeks $250M for Oahu rail:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110215_Obama_budget_seeks_250M_for_Oahu_rail.html

Grant

Punahou kid does good...

Chi-town/Illinois lucked out in the High Speed Rail draw already.

$100 million for H-town North, can't really argue with that...

[gmat]

Updated Financial plan prepared by the city:

City readies plan on rail transit finances
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110216_City_readies_plan_on_rail_transit_finances.html

And on a connecting note:

Hawaii leads nation as gas prices hit 28-month high
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/116341419.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Some interesting discussion on using the rail to develop areas on Oahu.

While economic growth potential exists at the future sites of rail stations, few projects are taking advantage of it
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110220_If_they_build_it_will_developers_come.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Small blurb on Ground Breaking ceremonies with comments including rants.

Officials break ground today on rail transit project
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Officials_break_ground_today_on_rail_transit_project.html


To moderators;
Why did you rejoin the thread? Like the 253 Kinugawa thread, this was getting long.

Best wishes,
Grant

[disturbman]

To moderators;
Why did you rejoin the thread? Like the 253 Kinugawa thread, this was getting long.

Because it's not a reason enough to create a new thread. There is no point having different threads dedicated to that very same subject. No thread can be too long and multiplying threads on the subject is actually making the access to informations more difficult. I know very long (+1000 posts) threads that are very functional and successful. :)

[gmat]

OK, Thanks.
But the photobucket intensive thread like the Kinugawa one takes a while to upload. That's all.
 
Best wishes,
Grant

[disturbman]

It's a bit different with photo only threads. They do get heavy when you document a whole train exterior and interior. Here it's different. It's pure news, discussions and article collection.

The Transport Politic made a post on Honolulu's project: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/02/22/rapid-transit-closer-to-realization-as-honolulus-rail-project-breaks-ground/

extract:

With mountains to the north and the Pacific Ocean to the south, there is little room for the city to expand, so the only place it can go is up. The “Manhattanization” of downtown and nearby Waikiki over the past few decades is representative of this trend. And transit is a popular way to get around — The Bus, the local transit agency, carries 236,000 daily riders, and the city has a transit work commute share of more than 10%, which is the highest of any major city without rail in the United States and about the same as the City of Portland.

236,000 daily riders?! That's quite good compared to the size of Honolulu (375,000 residents).

[Mudkip Orange]

236,000 daily riders?! That's quite good compared to the size of Honolulu (375,000 residents).

All US transit ridership is calculated using unlinked boarding rides.

So for instance, if I take two buses to get to my destination, and two buses home, I count as four "riders."

[Shashinka]

OK, Thanks.
But the photobucket intensive thread like the Kinugawa one takes a while to upload. That's all.
 
Best wishes,
Grant

To answer that question, when pictures are hosted on the JNS Forums, it only shows thumbnails which are small and load fast. When you click on them, the image enlarges.

[gmat]

Shashinka, I guess that I should look for that function at Photobucket and use that. I wanted to show the photos in the best size available which is why I've been doing it the other way. I'll see if it helps.

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

New article about the ground breaking ceremony:

A ceremony marks the start of Honolulu's rail transit system
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110223_Its_a_go.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

News article about Ansaldo Honolulu, a consortium of Ansaldo Breda and Ansaldo STS, that is getting the contract to build and operate the rail cars.


Photos and drawings of the proposed rail cars included. Neat, but too bad they aren't Japanese, as it might be hard to model them in N gauge.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110322_Have_a_seat.html

Bombardier Transportation from Canada and a consortium lead by Sumitomo Corporation also placed bids.

Best wishes,
Grant

[Shashinka]

I cringe at the thoguht of seeing more Breda built cars in service anywhere with the history of service reliability most TA's claim to have with the Italian builder. Aside from Shaker Height's, I can't think of a single TA who has a current fleet who will accept a bid from them. Metro Magazine had reported Breda had planned to suspend bidding in the US because TA's were "overly sensitive toward their product's quality"

[keitaro]

couldn't be as terrible as the trains we have in sydney.

They drip water on your head in winter and have broken air con in summer :)

While not sure I swear they go slower than they can cause they like derailing.

i have been unfortunate enough to be on 2 derails before not bad ones but it's damn annoying heh.

[bikkuri bahn]

I cringe at the thoguht of seeing more Breda built cars in service anywhere with the history of service reliability most TA's claim to have with the Italian builder. Aside from Shaker Height's, I can't think of a single TA who has a current fleet who will accept a bid from them. Metro Magazine had reported Breda had planned to suspend bidding in the US because TA's were "overly sensitive toward their product's quality"

My feelings also.  Breda has a terrible reputation.  Apparently they have a cushy relationship with the unions, at least in Los Angeles...

[gmat]

Some of the concerns raised above are mentioned in the latest article below:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110323_Rail_car_makers_record_spotty.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[Shashinka]

Some companies as a whole have these issues. I can still recall the issues ABB use to have in the 90's with delivery schedules. Then there's the whole SEPTA Red Arrow/Norristown debacle to which I defer to Mudkip as his home turf.

[Mudkip Orange]

Then there's the whole SEPTA Red Arrow/Norristown debacle to which I defer to Mudkip as his home turf.

Hey, even if you pin 100% of the issues with the N5s on ABB, SEPTA still owns everything that happened with the M-4s. "Fool me once..."

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/eKgPY1adc0A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/eKgPY1adc0A</a>

[gmat]

Burial sites another problem for Honolulu Rail.

Old graves are expected to be found in the town section of the transit route
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110327_212_dig_sites_dot_rail_leg.html

Something like this affected our family in Honolulu. When I was young, every year in August, we visited a cemetary in Aiea, near Pearl Harbor. It was small, old and run down. One year when we showed up, the whole cemetary was gone. The land was used as part of the off ramp for the new H-2 highway. It was pretty distressing. It turned out that information had been published in the newspapers, but we hadn't caught it. We never recoverd the remains.

Best wishes,
Grant

[Mudkip Orange]

Did they at least exhume the bodies?

I know when they redid 75 north of Dallas they ran into issues because the original 75 was built right over the top of what had been a negro cemetery. As part of the reconstruction they exhumed and relocated all of the graves so the rebuilt/widened freeway no longer disturbs the dead.

[gmat]

Yes, they exhumed the bodies and I guess cremated the reemains. I think that the ashes might have been disposed of by the time my family had asked about them.

Sumitomo Group challenges the award. Let the games begin:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110330_Rail_pact_faces_challenge.html

Besst wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

The selection of Ansaldo continues to generate waves:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110404_Cities_frustrated_by_rail_car_maker.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Short article that both of the losing bidders are protesting the decision. The reader's comments are interesting.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110412_2_bidders_protest_citys_rail_decision.html

If you far enough into the reader's comments, shibai is a local japanese word meaning being coy with the facts.

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Longer article about the protests filed by the other two bidders against the awarding of the contract to Ansaldo Honolulu.

Losing bidders might delay rail project
Two companies have filed protests with the city over a transit contract won by Ansaldo Honolulu

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110419_Losing_bidders_might_delay_rail_project.html

Best wishes,
Grant

[gmat]

Star Advertiser OpEd on the need for a rail expert on the Board of Directors of the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation.
Any volunteers?
http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110424__Oahus_rail_panel_needs_technical_expert_aboard.html

Best wishes,
Grant