Modemo Hiroshima 5000 pictures release

[to2leo]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but this is the updated version of the tram.

It looks like Modemo will be using the tried and true motor technology.  So no mini motor like Kato's.

Having said that, it looks like the motor is in the second compartment so aside from the weight from 1st (front), 3rd and 5th (back) car, one can see thru at least in one compartment.

http://www.hasegawa-model.co.jp/modemo-new.html

[David]

Any idea if this will have working/directional lights yet?

[bill937ca]

For some reason I'm passing on this one.

[cteno4]

much nicer looking than the hodie! a lot less expensive as well!!!

aww come on bill you gotta have one! they look really nice snaking around tight curves! the feel very realistic as a street tram.

cheers

jeff

[to2leo]

Bill I am surprised you are not biting it too.  If it is proved to be reliable, imagine going thru a S-Curve with that thing.

David, I think the logo on the Modemo website does state it has directional lights.

I have pre-ordered one from HWJ but am secretly hoping that Kato with release one with its latest Unitram motor design.

[Shashinka]

Surprised to hear Bill pass on it too. Ten again, I'm not one much for those 5 segment centipede trams.

[stevenh]

Can't wait ... can't wait :)

Bad Google Translation(tm):

Point /
Reproduce every detail - the sculptural precision
5001 - Printed second car (second car can be changed by the transfer sheet)
Tail Lights - Headlights
• With flywheel mechanism
Stickers with / transfer sheet (can reproduce all the organization 12 second car)

A flywheel should lead to some smooooooth running.

[KenS]

That's a sweet train.  The only reason I didn't order one is that I don't really have a suitable line for it to run on, and it's outside my nominal zone of "around Tokyo" (which is how I keep from buying every neat model).  But oh, so tempting...

[bill937ca]

Bill I am surprised you are not biting it too.  If it is proved to be reliable, imagine going thru a S-Curve with that thing.

Modern low floor LRVs have no soul.  The windows don't open. There's no whiniing gears nor a thumping compressor, so I pass.

But I have got an European tram project under way using almost all Japanese tram supplies. But alas I am waiting for items, now delayed items from Japan.  Should have something to post about late March.  These days I'm just relaxing.

[bikkuri bahn]

Modern low floor LRVs have no soul.  The windows don't open. There's no whiniing gears nor a thumping compressor, so I pass.

Kinda like my dislike of the the modern inverter EMUs.  You'd like Sapporo's streetcars, apart from a few inverter types, the rest are old-fashioned types, with old-fashioned sound.  I always take them to get to the library on the weekends.  This video is of the stretch around the library, which is the southern end of the simple u-shaped route.  Note compressor thump near the end around 3:50:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4cV8tzNZ3BE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/4cV8tzNZ3BE</a>

[bill937ca]

Yeah, you'd gotta love the compressor thump!  Thanks BB! 

[cteno4]

Modern low floor LRVs have no soul.  The windows don't open. There's no whiniing gears nor a thumping compressor, so I pass.

Kinda like my dislike of the the modern inverter EMUs.  You'd like Sapporo's streetcars, apart from a few inverter types, the rest are old-fashioned types, with old-fashioned sound.  I always take them to get to the library on the weekends.  This video is of the stretch around the library, which is the southern end of the simple u-shaped route.  Note compressor thump near the end around 3:50:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4cV8tzNZ3BE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/4cV8tzNZ3BE</a>

would it be wonderful to have a web cam on a tram! or even just a recording from the day before thats streamed the next day! amazing what the audio brings into this kind of video/scene.

jeff

[to2leo]

Hey Bill or others,
Did anyone get this one from Bachmann?
How well does it run?

[bill937ca]

Not yet. Its only been out a short time. I probably will get one eventually.

Hey Bill or others,
Did anyone get this one from Bachmann?
How well does it run?

[David]

Hey Bill or others,
Did anyone get this one from Bachmann?
How well does it run?

Running seems fine according to spookshow
http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/loco/bachwitt.html

However he's an American prototype modeler, so stuff like directional lighting is usually outside his radar and gets little mention, so the review doesn't specify if the decoder does anything special with the rear lights like the TCS M4T streetcar decoder, which attaches braking to a function key so that the rear lights work like the prototype (applying brakes slows the car and turns on the rear lights).

High resolution front and back pictures here
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Bachmann-N-Trolley-p/bac-84651.htm

I wonder if there will ever be a day someone does a nice CLRV model in n scale (there has been a museum quality very limited run in HO). It's taller then the Witt car so plenty of room for a mechanism, and the design is 70s modern with lots of smooth edges making it easier to translate into a believable plastic model. Of course only one city runs them... The ICTS Mk1 (Scarborough RT) is another prototype that would nice in N scale before its gone: the cars are short, it's a 4 car formation, and it runs on fairly sharp curves meaning you could make a fairly realistic compressed copy of the Scarobrough RT line on an L shaped layout.

[bill937ca]

Just for the record the prototype of this car is a Baltimore United Railways (later Baltimore Transit 6000) built in 1930.  

http://www.btco.net/Vehicles/Witt/

Bachmann likes to build a single prototype and paint it in numerous color schemes, whether authentic or not.

A minor nitpick.  A car of that era should have the TTC monogram logo rather than the Keystone logo.

[Hobby Dreamer]

The Modemo looks great but does lack something - sort of looks like a string of cargo containers. Although not Japanese the Peter Witt looks great but its very tough to get figures and vehicles for the era. But a PCC may be around the corner and they are still being used in some cities. Bachmann is finally uping the ante from toys to scale models.

The big plus is that N.A. collectors will want track! So we may see some more variety. Hopefully from Tomix or Kato....

The Japanese trams seem to be selling well but you don't see that many layouts other than the Kato starter set. Hopefully the demand for trams will translate to turnouts for tram track!

Rick

[bill937ca]

One issue to note with the Bachmann Peter Witt.  I'm not sure if it can take Kato Unitram or Tomix curves out of the box unmodified.  US streetcar models are notorious for only running on train track radius.

Articles on modifying the HO version:

http://www.trolleyville.com/tv/school/lesson6_7/index.htm

http://www.trolleyville.com/tv/school/lesson5_4/index.htm

[to2leo]

Okay I am buying the TTC one.  Will let you know in a month how does it perform.

[Ben]

Hi all! Long time lurker, first time poster...

I can confirm that the Bachmann Peter Witt will take 140 mm curves - though any smaller might be a bit squeaky...

[Bernard]

ben - Welcome to the forum!

[to2leo]

welcome Ben, thanks for letting us know!

[bill937ca]

Rick, this is O gauge operating off the overhead with DCC.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/rgYnJZdhi1s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/rgYnJZdhi1s</a>

[to2leo]

I remembered this set!  I saw it at Doors Open at the Greenwood Yard in Toronto 2 years ago.  I wish they come in N Scale but the market is too limited.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Rick, this is O gauge operating off the overhead with DCC.

Thanks Bill, I "believe" the shells are made in Russia, and if so I ordered one 2-3 years ago and am waiting for them to make a Toronto version again, as these are hand-made/custom made. One can get a display case for these with some modest scenery and that was the plan.

A TTC (Toronto) version is available at some sites (3rd party retailers) but is way over-priced for me.

Trams have been a sub-culture of the model train hobby because either the trams or the track has not been available or not of a certain quality. Or its custom made, limited availability etc.

The N-scale stuff from Japan is beyond my dreams.

[to2leo]

Alright as promised, here are the pics for the Bachmann's N Scale Peter Witt.

I ordered it exactly 2 weeks ago so shipping from US to Canada is still the same.

I am completely amazed at the number of many separately added details on this little streetcar. The bars, cow catcher, window cage really add details to this already unique model.

It is DCC included with non-directional headlight.  The engine runs very smoothly and can handle slow speed with ease.

One thing I need to comment is how tiny this model is when compared to rest of the N gauge tram/streetcar models...I guess it is the 1/150 to 1/160 ratio again...

As a person who felt burned by previous Bachmann offerings...Acela, Alaska McKinnley Explorer, I can honestly stand behind this latest Bachmann model.  I hope Bachmann will revamp the PCC next!

Here are the pics:
The streetcar is accompanied by Bachmann PCC, Kato, Modemo and Brawa for a comparison.

[brill27mcb]

Alright as promised, here are the pics for the Bachmann's N Scale Peter Witt.

...It is DDC included with non-directional headlight...

On mine, the rear headlight is directional and the front stays on in both directions of travel. That may be true of the prototype car (don'r know), or maybe they just borrowed a decoder circuit design for U.S. steam engines. They often kept the front headlight on when reversing, sometimes dimmed down. I don't use DCC myself, but I wonder if DCC programming can change how the front headlight works.

Mine also makes more running noise than I expected.

Rich K.

[bill937ca]

One thing I need to comment is how tiny this model is when compared to rest of the N gauge tram/streetcar models...I guess it is the 1/150 to 1/160 ratio again...

As a person who felt burned by previous Bachmann offerings...Acela, Alaska McKinnley Explorer, I can honestly stand behind this latest Bachmann model.  I hope Bachmann will revamp the PCC next!

The Peter Witt should be bigger than the Japanese cars.  Trams in Japan are as short as 36 feet, most are about 39 feet.  North American cars usually were about 44-45 feet long.  But it might not be to scale, but its hard to compare against articulated cars. The Bachmann PCC is definitely over scale.

Note the prototype car is a Baltimore car and Baltimore was a wide gauge system: 5' 4".

Next from Bachmann is a single truck Birney, first in HO, then O, then N.

The PCC colors were reissued last year.  Don't think it will be re-done for several years.

[to2leo]

Does anyone who pre-ordered the LRV from HW Japan find a way to order from another source? I am desperate to know 

[Hobby Dreamer]

Thanks to2leo  for posting those pics...

When you compare the MoMo trams to the Portram the latter look a bit large but I don't know the prototype sizes. Could the Portrams be over-sized?

I'd be very surprised not to see PCCs in N scale later this year. Why? Two companies have released new HO scale versions and one has 2 variants IIRC; and they seem to be selling!

All Bachmann has to do is develop a new shell for the PCC (and maybe a bit of adjusting inside to fit the Witt guts) to have a winner... Who is going to buy their current PCC versus the PWs?

If it was not for Kato/Tomix I'd be all over the Peter Witts. To be honest, I would look into casting PCC shells to fit over Tomix drives! (And that aint a bad idea!)

Thanks
Rick

[cteno4]

Does anyone who pre-ordered the LRV from HW Japan find a way to order from another source? I am desperate to know 

leo,

im in the same boat and emailed hw specifically about this, being willing to prepay so it would just need shipping, but they replied that just no one will be left to ship overseas after next weekend.

not sure you can do a reservation elsewhere at this point, its due out in april and hs has the reservation closed. hw use to close reservations earlier than hs. you could try writing popendetta or rainbowten to see if its not too late.

modemo has sold out very fast in the past, but i expect that this new style lrv will be produced in pretty good quantities. most recent modemo models are currently still in stock, but many of them are just version differences, not a brand new model like this.

put a wait list request in at hs as well and that will give you early warning of when they hit the shelves.

cheers

jeff

[Barobutt]

I'm VERY new to N scale trams, but THIS tram is my dream tram.  I've been looking for a modern snake-like tram like this for ages, I bet it will love my tight 4" corners.  The only problem is... how do I buy it??  I can't find it on ebay or plaza japan...  I'd be ok settling for a kato portram but this tram is my dream!  Does anyone know how long snakey trams handle steep grades ?  They obviously have a lot of side to side flexibity (yaw) but how is there up/down (pitch) flexibility between segments?  I'd hate for this to bottom out or derail at the top/bottom of a steep ramp.

[cteno4]

Barobutt,

its not out yet. due in april. reservations are closed, but hopefully will be out in quantity for a while. you can put in a waiting list email request for when it does hit the shelves.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10131951

i expect it should run fine, modemo is a very quality manufacturer. the older hodei version of the hiroshima greenmover functions fine and its a cruder mechanism than i think the modemo will be.

cheers

jeff

[bill937ca]

I'm VERY new to N scale trams, but THIS tram is my dream tram.  I've been looking for a modern snake-like tram like this for ages, I bet it will love my tight 4" corners.  The only problem is... how do I buy it??  I can't find it on ebay or plaza japan...  I'd be ok settling for a kato portram but this tram is my dream!  Does anyone know how long snakey trams handle steep grades ?  They obviously have a lot of side to side flexibity (yaw) but how is there up/down (pitch) flexibility between segments?  I'd hate for this to bottom out or derail at the top/bottom of a steep ramp.

Generally longer articulated light rail trams are limited to grades of 5%. The existence of grades beyond 5% is a major issue on legacy systems.

[Barobutt]

Is this is actual N scale practise, or are you talking only about prototype situations?

[bill937ca]

Is this is actual N scale practise, or are you talking only about prototype situations?

That is prototype practice.

[disturbman]

Where? Because from what I know (and I've acted as transit journalist for a time), modern tram/caterpilars can climb grades higher than their ancestors. It's not uncommon for them to be used on grades steeper than 5%. The only problem is traction.

[bill937ca]

Bombardier raised this issue at Toronto.  It wanted a legacy system modified to accommodate off the shelf light rail cars. In the end Bombardier will modify its design for Toronto's operating conditions.  Curve radius is also an issue. See pages 3, 17, and  18.  Melbourne has had to rebuild curves at some intersections post delivery, in-spite of what they were told by the suppliers.

The degree of low-floor 70% versus 100% also is a factor.  With 100% low floor (which Toronto specified) there is very little space for motors and electrical components commonly found under the car have to be relocated to the roof. Low floor also means smaller wheels.

In general, places with extremely steep grades (over 10%) like Pittsburgh and Lisbon have operated special cars with extra brakes on the hilly routes. Regular rolling stock is restricted from operating on those routes.

Many lines are entirely new, so they are not necessarily the best example of can or can't be done. Some only seem to do what the consultants suggest.

[bill937ca]

Does anyone who pre-ordered the LRV from HW Japan find a way to order from another source? I am desperate to know  

Modemo does do direct sales, but they do not seem to be set up for overseas sales.  

Meanwhile the NT127 is still on Modemo's new release page.

[Barobutt]

Double post sorry

[Barobutt]

I'd be running this probably on wide-tram mini-curved track but I found a picture of a tram that probably has a wider over-hang on turns than this one.



Is it just me or is there way too big of spacing between the tracks?  Looks like you could have a lane of traffic in the centre safely.  How narrow could I space my tracks and still run the Modemo 5000 tram safely?

[bill937ca]

I'd be running this probably on wide-tram mini-curved track but I found a picture of a tram that probably has a wider over-hang on turns than this one.

Is it just me or is there way too big of spacing between the tracks?  Looks like you could have a lane of traffic in the centre safely.  How narrow could I space my tracks and still run the Modemo 5000 tram safely?

A Modemo Tokyu tram like that can handle the 177mm and 140mm curves, but not the 103mm curves unless the drives have been changed recently by Modemo.  You can find those articulated trams at HS or Plaza Japan in various color schemes.

Tomix's standard track centre is 37mm which is wide for trams.  You can place a divider or island between the tracks.  The other alternative is Kato, but there only is double track, no crossovers (although they were promised a couple of years ago) and no switches in paved track.

[Barobutt]

I know the Tokyu tram would have trouble with the 103 curves, that's why I'm interested in the tram this thread is about.  I'm trying to confirm that the Modemo Hiroshima 5000 could handle a 4.05" radius curve.  It was my hope that it's many small segments would handle a tight curve better than the 2 long segments of the tram picture I linked.

But if worst comes to worst, the kato portram has been confirmed to have no problem with 103mm curves if I recall, correct?

[cteno4]

Barobutt,

i expect it will as my hodei model will navigate the 103 with no problems, but probably safest to wait and see once it hits the streets to be sure.

cheers

jeff

[Barobutt]

Are there any segmented modern trams like this currently on the market, or is the only option waiting for this one to come out?  I've never bought any model trains from Japan or a Japanese manufacturer, I'm extremely new to this part of the hobby.

[brill27mcb]

As Jeff mentioned, there was an earlier version of the Hiroshima "Green Mover" made in N gauge by Hoedl Linie 8 of Germany. They made a number of variations of this Siemens Combino articulated tram design, including 3 and 5-section units painted for Nagasaki, Ulm and Erfurt (Germany) and one or two others. They are now out of manufacture for a few years, and do not turn up very often second-hand. The photo with my name here shows the nose of a Hoedl Green Mover on the left, and the 3-section Nagasaki is on the right. The Modemo version should be a good one!

That photo you found is also one of mine, from the Tomix / EasyTrolley website listed in my signature line below. It shows one of the many Tokyu "Setagaya Line" articulated trams sold by Modemo. Study the EasyTrolley photo gallery and layout sections on the website for many ideas for tram layouts.

I use the Tomix street track system because it was the first on the market, still offers the most flexibility for tram layout design, and is far cheaper than the Kato Unitram (where you are paying for wide boulevards and urban real estate, as well as track). I have no problem with the wide track spacing of Tomix and just live with it. Bill has posted many examples on this forum of actual tram lines in Japan and Europe that have similar spacing. Remember that it is made to represent narrow gauge, compared to "standard gauge" North American light rail systems.

Rich K.

[to2leo]

Hi everyone,
Thank you for the suggestions as to where to buy the Modemo Tram.  I am seriously planning to get it from Rakuten but I will do a wait and see approach.

Here are the latest photos released recently in a Kobe show, with thanks to N Gauge Info.
http://ngi.blog.eonet.jp/photos/20110319_modemo/

My slight worry is the effectiveness of the compartments with wheels holding the two without.  From the pictures, it looks like the whole tram gives you a 'wobbly' impression.

Also, the motor and weight seemed to block off much of the big windows except compartment 4.  I guess I am spoiled with Kato's Unitram mini motor.

[stevenh]

It still looks great... just needs a metal pantograph.
Meanwhile, the middle bogie is off the rails, could contribute to it's wobbly-ness... but yes, it doesn't look too stable.

[cteno4]

hmm the Hodei definitely does not have the vertical sag that the modemo seems to have... bit bummed if this is has this much vertical play. might just be due to the middle bogie off the rails...

the hodei is very stable with the three bogies, works on my torture track of 103mm r tomix track doing a full two connected 360 loop backs.

cheers

jeff

[to2leo]

Good news!  Rainbow Ten accepted my request to pre-order the Modemo Hiroshima 5000 via their BBS line!  Yes, I am back in line for the model!!!

Thanks Bill 

[3106] Re:[3105] Hasegawa NT123 availability Posted by ：Nao Date of Post：2011/03/30(Wed) 17:36 [Reply]

    > Hi Nao,
    > I am wondering if I can pre-order or order the upcoming Hasegawa NT123 N gauge Hiroshima Electric Railway Type 5000 "GREEN"?

    Yes it's no problem we can take your order.



[3105] Hasegawa NT123 availability Posted by ：Leo W Date of Post：2011/03/29(Tue) 05:39 [Reply]

    Hi Nao,
    I am wondering if I can pre-order or order the upcoming Hasegawa NT123 N gauge Hiroshima Electric Railway Type 5000 "GREEN"?

    Thanks beforehand.