Kato 10-491 800 Series "Tsubame" Light Board Decoder help needed

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi, I thought I would start a new thread as the previous one with my question strayed away from my question.

Attached are pictures of the Kato 800 Series light board that I would like to attach a TCS FL4 decoder (as recommended by most folks on here).

How do I go about doing it? I am not very good at soldering so keep that in mind  

Cheers

Spiff

[CaptOblivious]

This one is easy ;)

Desolder the longer (pinkish) LED, and re-bend the leads so you can put it back in with the leads reversed. Best way to do that is to get a solder-sucker from RadioShack, heat up the solder, and use the sucker to remove it, while gently prying the LED from the board. Then straighten the leads, and solder it back in sticking straight out of the board, then bend it back into position once soldered in.

While the LED is out of the board, cut the traces (using a hobby saw or needle-file) connecting the LEDs to the brass rails (see diagram below).

Solder the decoder leads where indicated in the diagram below.

Easy-peasy!

[CaptOblivious]

After making that diagram, I can see one place to make it easier: Insert the red and black wires from the bottom of the board, through the holes in the board and the brass pickups, and then solder on the brass side, rather than trying to solder directly to the brass pickups (which is basically just asking for the brass pickups to fall off).

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks so much for your help CaptOblivious!

I am assuming that the colors in your diagram are supposed to match the decoder leads. According to the FL4 instructions black and red are for track power which matches up with diagram.

There is a blue lead but no white or yellow leads as your picture indicates.  So which leads do I need to use?

Attached is a pdf of the FL4 instructions. If it doesn't work here is the link:

http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/HO-Scale/FunctionOnly/Function%20Only.htm


Thanks

Spiff

[KenS]

Uh, it looks to me like blue-to-yellow doesn't go through the resistor.  Capt., are you sure about that layout?

[inobu]

Uh, it looks to me like blue-to-yellow doesn't go through the resistor.  Capt., are you sure about that layout?

Yeah, I think Ken caught something. It is like the other board. You have to split the LED circuit at the leg. It looks like the blue and white is transposed.

hold on let me check.....................

Yeah, Capt check the common (Blue) it should be on the other side of the resistor and the yellow and white should be attached to a leg of each cathode.  


Spiff the reason the wire color codes are not matching is the FL4 is a extra lighting function decoder. It is an add on to another decoder that already have the Y-B-W in use.
 
Inobu

  

[CaptOblivious]

I stand by my directions, which include, recall, reversing the pink LED…notice, carefully, that the two LEDs are connected at the bottom-most pad of the resistor…

Ugh, you guys are right. Bleah. I'll try that again tomorrow when I have less gin in me.

[inobu]

I think the easiest way to do the lights is apply the rule of matching the Anodes to the resistor side of the circuit. Then isolate the cathode side of the LED from each other. Isolate the pick ups and wire the Blue,white and yellow wires to the three corresponding points.  

Here is a photo chop of the image modified where the pick up have been removed, the red LED removed and flipped where the anode is aligned with the blue/resistor side of the circuit and the LED's cathode side have been isolated from each other. The board should look like this

More details...

Here you can see the three terminating points. Blue at the Top pad. White on the bottom pad and Yellow on the center point of the LED's leg.

More details...

Inobu

[CaptOblivious]

What I was trying to achieve in my haste was not requiring Spiff to find a new location to solder the red and black pickups. It's much easier when you can solder them to the lightboard, and use the existing pickup mechanisms…

[Spaceman Spiff]

Uh, it looks to me like blue-to-yellow doesn't go through the resistor.  Capt., are you sure about that layout?

Yeah, I think Ken caught something. It is like the other board. You have to split the LED circuit at the leg. It looks like the blue and white is transposed.

hold on let me check.....................

Yeah, Capt check the common (Blue) it should be on the other side of the resistor and the yellow and white should be attached to a leg of each cathode.  


Spiff the reason the wire color codes are not matching is the FL4 is a extra lighting function decoder. It is an add on to another decoder that already have the Y-B-W in use.
 
Inobu

  

Ok, so what do I do since I do not have another decoder. I only have FL4's for the end cars as they are not motorized.

Spiff

[CaptOblivious]

Use the purple and green leads on the FL4 where any of our directions reference white and yellow. It's that simple :D

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks once again for your help!

Spiff

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi again, I apologize for all the dumb questions. You guys must be getting sick of me.

Using inobu picture.

1) Where the "yellow wire" line ends there need to be a gap as indicated by a brown line. I need to remove the solder (with the new solder pump I now own  ),

2) Where indicated solder the "green" wire from the FL4 to the indicated yellow spot.

3) Attach blue to spot indicated.

4) Where indicated solder the "purple" wire from the FL4 to the indicated white spot.

5) Solder black and red decoder leads to track power.

Does the above look right?

Spiff

[Martijn Meerts]

There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers =)

What you're saying sounds about right. I've added function decoders to the cab-cars of this train as well, but I can't quite remember where I soldered what. It was one of my first installs ;)

Also, make sure you isolate the light board from the track power.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for all the replies and info.  One of the members of my local club was gracious enough to install the decoders for me on the 800 series.  :)


Spiff

[inobu]

Thanks for all the replies and info.  One of the members of my local club was gracious enough to install the decoders for me on the 800 series.  :)


Spiff

Oh, I was under the impression you were doing the install. I guess I should have followed up. It is good that you got it installed.

Practice will make it perfect.

Inobu

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I was planning on doing but it started get complicated for a newbie and a club member graciously offered to do it :)

I still have the 0 series and 100 series to screw up.  Lol

Spiff

[Webskipper]

Does this decoder fix the issue with both the headlamps and the tail lamps of the cabs always on when running a DC loco on a DCC track?

Here is Kato Japan's Custom Shop's list of Digitrax decoders and lighting kit.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.katomodels.com%2Fhobby%2Fcustomshop%2Fkakou%2Fset_kakou%2F10491_kakou.html&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Kato 800 DCC conversion list:

1- Digitrax DZ143 Z, N and HO Scale Mobile Decoder 4 function for each Cab Car

1- Digitrax DZ123 N/Z Scale Mobile Decoder 2 function for Powered Car

1- KATO N 11210 Passenger Car Light Kit, White LED (6-Pack) for the (3) Passenger Cars

[Martijn Meerts]

A DC loco on DCC track will always have all lights turned on. Obviously, installing a decoder will fix the problem, but then it's no longer a DC loco ;)


I converted my Kato 800 with a Lenz Gold for the motor car, and 2 Uhlenbrock Funktion Mini for the cab cars. I've also added lighting kits to all the cars. The cab cars require you to flip 1 of the LEDs so you get a common anode. The install isn't all that complicated really.

[CaptOblivious]

Oh geez! Katos recommendations are total overkill. The DZ125 is more than is apprpriate for the cab cars: pick up a pair of cheaper TCS FL4 function decoders instead (avoid Digitrax function decoders: no autoreversing headlights).  The DZ143 is probably fine foe the motor car (DZ125 isn't powerful enough in my experience, and could burn out), but you can get smaller decoders for the same price or cheaper. Marti likes the Lenz Silver mini+; I like the TCS M 1 or NCE ZR14.

[Martijn Meerts]

I like the Lenz Silver mini+ mainly because every store here sells it, TCS, NCE, Digitrax, etc. I'd all have to import which would make them too expensive ;)

I'd love to try some other decoders, maybe I should pick up a few different ones when visiting the States.

[CaptOblivious]

I like the Lenz Silver mini+ mainly because every store here sells it, TCS, NCE, Digitrax, etc. I'd all have to import which would make them too expensive ;)

I'd love to try some other decoders, maybe I should pick up a few different ones when visiting the States.

I don't know. I've come to the conclusion that your opinion on the Lenz decoders is thoroughly justified. If the cost is comparable, I wouldn't bother trying other brands. On the other hand, if Lenz decoders cost as much in Europe as they do in the US, then by all means give TCS and NCE a look. Not exactly feature-rich, but a solid product for the price.

[Martijn Meerts]

The silver mini's are about 30 euro, which is about 41 USD at the current rate. It's a fair price for the functionality and size of the decoder. There's plenty decoders that are cheaper though.

It'll be interesting to see whether the batch of 5 I have on order is from the new production run. If they are, they should have railcomplus as well as bipolar output for use as function decoder.

[Webskipper]

Wow another curve reconfigure my wishlist.

So Lenz is a better choice? Whats the Lenz DCC  decoder list for the 800?

Any DCC controller will talk to it right? I'm still green.

[Martijn Meerts]

Lenz is just another choice really, not necessarily the best. Lenz decoders are compatible with all dcc command stations, the nmra standard is based on the Lenz system. For all intents and purposes, Lenz invented dcc.

For an 800 series you could use 3 silver mini's. As of the latest batch, the silver mini can be used as both motor decoder and function decoder. There are cheaper function decoders available though. In Europe, a good option would be either the uhlenbrock function mini or the ESU lokpilot fx, both of those cost the same as the Lenz silver mini though. No idea about the options in the states, I'm sure digitrax, TCS, etc. have decent function decoders as well.

[Webskipper]

LenzUSA show the SilverMini+ at $36.00USD