Lights for Kato Buildings

[Bernard]

Pretty basic topic but I have to ask...how do you add lights to their Kato structures?
Since the buildings have a lot of interior details and floors, but no holes or mounts to add lights, and I don't want to start drilling a lot of holes all over the place in the models, what methods have you used to add your lights into the Kato buildings? Photos would be great.
Thanks.

[to2leo]

Never tried it but with so many portable, battery operated LED lights available in stores, I wonder it is a lighting solution to these hard to drill buildings? (Emotionally not physically hard to drill of course).

I got a few sets of miniature LED lights from W-mart during Canada's Boxing Day Sale last year.

Tomytec also has similar set of miniature LEDs available.

Above all this might be a good question for Quinntopia 

[cteno4]

i plan to poke around the holiday decorations this year (at the dollar store especially) to see if there are some more little interesting led lights that are battery powered. perhaps things that blink as well. these can be really quick and easy scenery effects. the little flickering led candles make great fires...

while you can buy the parts and roll your own, these little things can be fast and simple, just go at them with the wire nips to rip it down to the elements you need and go!

cheers

jeff

[inobu]

Initially I look at doing the same just have not had time, it is on the "I would like to do one day list".

You can reuse your old DC controller. Set it up as your public utility. Set the DC controller to 3 volts and lock the control knob into that position. Now that you have
your Public utility power plant all you need to do is set up your power grid. 

The Kato buildings are pretty much modular. They have a lot of gaps and tabs that allow you to wire floor to floor. You can use magnet wire and clear tape to make flexible circuit boards and use SMD LED to line the ceilings. Because the magnet wire is so thin you will not have to drill holes. Just tape it in.

Once you have the building wired all you have to do is connect it to your local grid.

Inobu

 
     

[KenS]

I haven't done it yet, and I'm sure Quinntopia can shed more light on the subject (pun intended).  But the Kato buildings I've had apart generally had a stairwell between floors (often an open shaft with no detail inside it.  You might need to put a small notch in the wall of that where it meets the next floor (if there's no gap) to get the wires into the main area of the floor, but otherwise it looks like that will be the simplest way to wire.

The new "big" Kato towers have a hole in the floor and a plastic light-pipe above that to carry light up to each floor in the building.  I'm not sure how well it would work, but it looks like they're intending this to be used with some kind of lighting kit that mounts to the base.  I can take photos of that tonight if you're interested.  And if there's a specific Kato building you'd like to see the inside of, I might have one I could open up and photograph.

The problem with battery-operated lights is turning them on and off.  You'd still need to drill a hole for a switch, unless you rig up something with a magnetic reed switch you can set from outside by placing a magnet next to or under the building.

Building lighting and detailing (furniture, signs, people) is pretty high on my to-do list, but keeps falling behind other projects.

I like Inobu's idea, but I'm planning to use 12V for my grid, and just put resistors on each LED or string of a couple of LEDs.  With that approach, you could use a 16V DC output (if your old power-pack has one) for the source.

[Bernard]

Inobu - I have set up a DC power grid from my transformer that is fixed @ 12volts. (photo)
I had a lot of bulbs from an earlier layout that I used but with new buildings I plan to switch to LEDs.
All my other structures, Pola, Kibri, Vollmer, etc, all have ports to put lights inside. The Kato structure are highly detailed inside but they never designed them to add lights to.
Would you also recommend dropping the voltage to 3v instead of 12v?

Ken - Thanks for the offer of photos, I have the older buildings which come apart in sections. I like the idea of adding strip SMD LED lights. Looks easy to apply to the structures.

Any recommended links to purchase the proper flexible SMD LED lights? (what voltage would you recommend?)
 

[inobu]

Bernard,

It depends on how in depth you are going with your utilities so to speak. You have to take a few things into consideration. Color of LED's have different voltage requirements.  Adding LED in series requires that the voltage be added together which would take you above 3V.  Some devices use different voltage levels higher than 3 volts which could limit your ability to service your layout community .

I threw out the 3V because it is the basic white LED voltage level and was showing how you could set your base voltage level. Ken's suggest the higher voltage value because it will encompass a whole gambit of devices which it the better choice. It would create a dynamic power grid.

If you have 12v set already I would keep it there. The only thing you would have to do is step down the voltage with the resistor to the LED's prescribed level. 

As far as the LED are concerned, I would get a reel of SMD LED, magnet wire and clear tape. That way you can build your own LED string how ever you want it.

I got 200 SMD LED for $17.00, magnet wire for $4.00. I think it is the the best option.     

Inobu
   

[quinntopia]

Any recommended links to purchase the proper flexible SMD LED lights? (what voltage would you recommend?)

Bernard, I would recommended nosing around ebay a bit.  But one of my first sources has been from Trainaidsa. http://www.trainaidsa.com/shop-leds.shtml.  The nice thing about their strips is that resistors are wired into the strips and ready for your 12v power supply!

When I need more in the future I'll probably buy them here: http://besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_76&products_id=629
(The first store, Trainaidsa is more expensive -besthongkong is about half the cost- but I found TrainaidsA products a good and easy way to get into all this lighting stuff (they come with connectors, etc...), maybe start with them and then branch out into cheaper suppliers but you may have to do some of your own soldering etc...).

I HIGHLY recommend you standardize your power source for building lighting....I use 12v DC wall warts (I have about 8) and find them to be perfect for lighting buildings.  If you plan on doing more than a total of 40 lights, you will probably need more another wall wart for every 40 or so (depends on the amps of both your source and your LED's, but let's not get into that math just yet!).

Case in point, for my very first LED wire, I decided to use an extra gameboy charger (5v DC), but later found 12v to be a bigger standard, however, my building is wired for 5v, and to convert it 12v requires replacing all the resistors.

LED strips are really convenient, economical and smart way to light buildings.  Unless I absolutely have to, I no longer want to wire my one LED's when I can use these!

Good luck!

[inobu]

Bernard,

Quin's right about the fexi strips for general wiring and lighting (I did not know you can cut them down), the cut able strips is the better option. For small or tight custom stuff you gotta build you own harness.

I'm going to order some of the flexi light to experiment.

Inobu

[cteno4]

btw cosmic just released a led battery unit for structures with a flat cell but want $15 for it! these are like 50 cents at most to sell! hoping there is something at the dollar store like this at xmas that could be used with little projects. just a dirt simple solution for some little odd lighting jobs.

jeff

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10133217

[Lawrence]

Anyone got an old computer kicking around at home or at work - here are a couple of links that might help you put the PSU to good use

http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/powersupply.htm

http://www.helpwithpcs.com/courses/power-supply-basics-inc-pinouts.htm

have fun   

[KenS]

I took a few photos of my Kato modular towers.

Photo 1 & 2: Kato 23-434 (available in A and B versions).  This has an elevator shaft with a wall separating it from each floor (you'd need to cut part of the wall to run wires into the floor, and cut the base, but the vertical run is easy.

Photo 3 & 4: Kato 23-432 (available in A and B versions, and the 23-435 is similar but blocks off the small windows). This one doesn't have the elevator shaft, the the area behind the small windows is blocked off from the main floor by wires (and hidden in the 23-435) and could be used for a wire run.

Photo 5 & 6: Kato 23-433 (available in A and B versions).  Normally a 6-floor building, I combined two to make this 10-floor tower. This has an elevator shaft and an interior partition wall.

Photo 7: Kato 23-431 (available in A and B versions). Although this comes in the same colors as the 23-434, it's build very differently.  Each floor is a module, and there are no separate floors, and thus no interior walls.  The roof module is actually just another floor with a cornice that clips onto it. Unfortunately the floor above the lobby is shaped differently from the others, so if you buy two, you only get two extra floors to expand the first one.

Photo 8: Here's an exploded view of Kato 23-439 (DioTown Corporate Office Building), showing the plastic light pipe (on table between floor and building) and the cut-outs in each floor for it.

I really need to get around to detailing the interior of a couple of these.  They're very visible through the windows, and furniture and lights would be quite a nice touch.

[Bernard]

Ken - Thanks for the photos. When I got my Kato buildings I was surprised to see how detailed they were inside unlike any of my other structures. They are really well made. I'm going to order a roll of the flexible LEDs from Hong Kong that Quinn posted (thanks Quinn!)

[cteno4]

remember what curt did to his!

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,3423.0.html

we expect papers on your conference room table!

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

remember what curt did to his!

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,3423.0.html

we expect papers on your conference room table!

cheers

jeff

That thread is the reason why I order the Kato buildings, there is so much detail you can add to them. They are one of he few structures you can add figures on all floors.

[quinntopia]

They're very visible through the windows, and furniture and lights would be quite a nice touch.

Furniture.  Sigh.  It kills me that they're are just no good options.  And really, once you start lighting the interiors you need to fill it up with something!  There are all sorts of models of N Scale tools, luggage, crates, boxes, benches, but....a couch? A bed? A dresser? A desk? None.  Not for Japan, not from the USA, nor from the Germans.

[cteno4]

Quin,

you can get tables and chairs from faller and also a number of the etched brass folks that are not horribly expensive.

for couches and desks you can just make them out of little bits of styrene, balsa or fun foam, paper, cardstock and paint them up. yes you will need a good lighted magnifying glass to assemble it all, but at this scale unless you are taking a really close macro shot this should give you more than you need to set a scene thats lit from the inside like this! few people about, etc. i think the mind will really fill in the details. i was amazed at what curt did on his buildings when i saw them in person. w/o lighting you only see the stuff right in front of the windows, but the outlines of the expected shapes really was enough to turn a blank building into something that the mind just went wild and filled in the blanks and said populated building!

i keep joking about the papers on the conference room table curt did, you will never seen them unless the building it opened up and you look really closely, not needed at all, curt was just having fun!

give it a shot and see what can be done with some simple shapes painted inside one of your lit floors and see what you get! i think you will be pleasantly surprise it wont take much to make a great lit scene in a building like this.

cheers

jerr

[cteno4]

quin,

i guess i poked the beast enough times and he (curt) posted some picts of the sumo museum with interior stuff. doesnt take much to make it come alive!

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,3799.0/topicseen.html

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

I got my lights from the supplier Quinn posted (thanks!) Really impressed so far. One question, what is the best way after cutting a section to then make an electrical connection to the covered feeds? (Do you use an Xacto knife to peel the plastic coating back or just solder onto the feeds?)

[cteno4]

Bernard,

yep just scratch off the varnish from the feed there. these strips usually have a soldering pad breakout area right next to where you cut them apart at every 3 leds. the perfect tool for this is the micromark mini scalpel blades that are like miniature chisels like 1/8" across (dragging it backwards), but an xacto knife tip works fine from the end, just place the blade edge along the varnish at a perpendicular and drag the blade sideways. ruins the blade fast but takes off the varnish well!

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

Quinn - I finally got to work on my layout this weekend and those LED strip lights are fantastic! I post pictures later. Did one of the Kato corner buildings and light all 8 floors......Ahhhh....it takes a lot of time. I'll have a new thread about electric connections.

Wait got the photo:

[quinntopia]

Berrnard...that building looks REALLY good!  I don't think I've ever seen that specific model lit up!  (although I have it, it was my very first high rise and the first thing I did was super glue all the floors together...whoops!).   The dark blue plastic really looks good with the lights in it!  Way to go!  Glad you like those light strips!  They really do make it easy! 

[Webskipper]

Have a gander at:

bakatronics.com

trainaidsa.com

[cteno4]

hey if you want a little tweezer probe to test your smd leds here are very cheap ones on ebay bout $3.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SMD-Test-Clip-Meter-Probe-multimeter-Tweezer-capacitor-/110572455057?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bea1c491#ht_3555wt_845

just hook it up to the proper power to light them.

you can also make your own with some pins and a pair of tweezers.

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

Finally got to work on lighting 4 kato buildings today. Had all the materials I need with the recommendations by members at the forum.

Iobou - thanks for the showing how you used the copper tape.....it's great to work with and I didn't realize with the tape there is contacts on both side!
Jeff - The electric connectors worked well, nice tight connection.
Quinn - the LED strips are bright, easy to use and never get hot.

I will post photos of what I did later in the week.

[Bernard]

As promised here are the photos of the process I used put the lights in the structures.
1) The 1st photo is the building I chose to experiment on.
2) 2nd photo is the LEDs on reel and the Copper tape.
3) 3rd photos is how you cut the LED stripes into sections. (sorry photo is out of focus:(
4) 4th photo shows the 2 solder points at each end.
5) 5th photo I cut the copper stripe in half down the middle, there is an adhesive on one side but there is contact on either side of the strip. After I solder on the 2 copper pieces I test it with a transformer to check that there is contact.
6) 6th photo has the LED in place with the copper stripes running up the inside wall of the building.
7) 7th photo before I replace the floor into the building I cement in the people inside.
8) 8th photo I cut a slot on the inside floor to run the copper stripes up the wall to connect to the next floor.
9) 9th photo here is where you see the 2 floors will meet and complete the electrical connection. I repeated the process for each floor and at the base I add the prong connection that Jeff recommended (Sorry forgot to take a photo :(

In all it does take time to do (like everything) but well worth it! The advantage is that if something needs to be checked in the future all you have to do is pull apart a single floor and it easy to access. After this I went crazy and used the LED/copper method on the entire layout.

[Bernard]

Here are more photos.

[Bernard]

Here are more photos.

[KenS]

Very nice.  I'll have to do my buildings that way.

[Bernard]

Very nice.  I'll have to do my buildings that way.

Ken - the Copper tape is wonderful with the Kato buildings since there are made in sectional floors. At any point if a section of LEDs burns out or there is a loose contact, you don't have to go through the entire building, just take apart the one floor and put in a new LED stripe.

I just did my station platforms.

[Bernard]

Here are 2 photos of the station platforms I added LED lights to. First from a distance and the second close up.

[inobu]

That is a great job Bernard. Really like seeing things come together.
Inobu

[KenS]

Bernard,
   Are you using the "white" or "warm white" LEDs?  I'd normally assume white for fluorescent lighting, but your platform lights appear to have a warmer color, and I notice quinntopia's original link was for the "warm white" ones.  That's making me think about which would be better.

[Webskipper]

Lights add realism.  Nice work!

[Bernard]

Bernard,
   Are you using the "white" or "warm white" LEDs?  I'd normally assume white for fluorescent lighting, but your platform lights appear to have a warmer color, and I notice quinntopia's original link was for the "warm white" ones.  That's making me think about which would be better.

Ken - I also went with the "warm white" LEDs and got them from an ebay seller from Hong Kong. My thinking was that it would be a softer light in the structures. 

[KenS]

After a bit of checking, the same "3528 SMD" LED strips appear to be available for less (at least for us U.S. folk) than from the original HK dealer, if you want to buy a whole 5m reel.  I found these on Amazon through Google, but Amazon's own search (by string or by vendor) doesn't find the same page, which is a bit odd. In any case, the quantity there was very limited.

I don't know if this is a temporary thing, but the seller apparently recently marked down their usual US$60 price (much less than the US$89.50 of BHK) to $45.50. You can either order through amazon (if you can find it) or apparently directly from them (same price either way):

LED Wholesalers

And they apparently have three kinds of white: a bluish "white", a natural-looking "warm white - 3100K", and a yellowish-looking "warm white - 2700K".

I found a second company, LEDLightsWorld, which also had these marked down to US$58.50 (their usual price was higher than BHKs), and they also sell in smaller quantities.

I just ordered (via Amazon) spools of "white" (which I'm planning to use for station platform lighting) and the 3100K version of "warm white", which I expect I'd use as my typical building lighting, although I may mix the two (in different buildings) depending on how it looks.  I'll let you know how the two compare, assuming I actually get them.

This was motivated by a desire to put lighting in my subway station before I reassemble the tracks above it (which makes access hard).

[Bernard]

Ken - Also get the copper tape that is if you don't have any. I got mine from Fine-Tape in New Jersey and it came within 2 days. Here is the link:
http://www.findtape.com/product329/JVCC-CFL-5CA-Copper-Foil-Tape.aspx?idx=1&tid=2&info=Copper%2bFoil%2bTape%2b%28Conductive%252fNon-Conductive%29

I got the 1/4" width and cut it in half and soldered it to the LED contact points.
I'll PM you with more details.

Here is the ebay seller I got my LED lights from, it may take longer but it's the best price I could find:
http://cgi.ebay.com/5M-500CM-3528-SMD-LED-Strip-Light-300-leds-Warm-White-/260735333109?pt=Lamps_US&hash=item3cb50972f5

[KenS]

I actually got the tape first; I found a roll of copper tape (which looks the same as yours) used for patching circuit boards at a local electronics store recently when I was looking for something else, and picked it up thinking I could use it for an under-street power bus for building lighting.  I hadn't thought of using it inside the buildings until this thread.  My only concern is amperage; I'm sure it's fine in open air for a few strings of LEDs, but sandwiched inside scenery and feeding several buildings, overheating could be a concern.  I need to do some research, and maybe some testing.

But more info is certainly of interest. I'm not sure how quickly I'll get to wiring buildings, which is where I expect to need the tape, since my iniitial project is going to be hidden lighting inside the subway station (lots of room to conceal wires). But eventually I want to light all of my buildings in both my Urban Station area and the more residential village area, and that's going to be a lot of building lighting.

[cteno4]

ken,

well if you look a the layer of copper on one of the long strings of led lights its even less than what is on foil tape like this. its also on very light plastic backing. probably fine as long as you are not trying to feed 5A over it! plus it has a large surface area to dissipate heat. so you would need to do quite a run of lights in a row to probably start worrying much about this. smarter to keep things is smaller groups anyway with multiple feeds or drops from a main power buss cable for trouble shooting.

also same tape on amazon for $12.95 with free super saver shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/JVCC-CFL-5CA-Copper-Conductive-Adhesive/dp/B000UZ8SJK/ref=sr_1_4?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1298911440&sr=1-4

looks good for building wiring, no messy snaking wires while trying to re assemble layers!

cheers

jeff

I actually got the tape first; I found a roll of copper tape (which looks the same as yours) used for patching circuit boards at a local electronics store recently when I was looking for something else, and picked it up thinking I could use it for an under-street power bus for building lighting.  I hadn't thought of using it inside the buildings until this thread.  My only concern is amperage; I'm sure it's fine in open air for a few strings of LEDs, but sandwiched inside scenery and feeding several buildings, overheating could be a concern.  I need to do some research, and maybe some testing.

But more info is certainly of interest. I'm not sure how quickly I'll get to wiring buildings, which is where I expect to need the tape, since my iniitial project is going to be hidden lighting inside the subway station (lots of room to conceal wires). But eventually I want to light all of my buildings in both my Urban Station area and the more residential village area, and that's going to be a lot of building lighting.