inobu
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« on: November 03, 2010, 05:57:44 pm » |
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You may have seen my posts querying portal images and the original reply about building one. I did not like what was out there so I decided to try my hand at it. This is what I got. These are double track portals based on Unitrack width 57mm. There are 2 types Cap and w/o cap. It will be plastic/urethane. Dimensions are inner tunnel clearance width 59.88 mm or 2.3 inches height 44.13 mm or 1.76 inches Length 146.75 mm or 5.7 inches This is based off the images I found on line and pretty much to scale. it has a walk way up to and through with the ability to add tunnel depth in 53mm increments (extra cost). I have a friend that runs LHS and wants to carry a few. I going to run a small batch of 20 or so. I am getting the prototype CNCed as we speak and will post the actual images of them when its done. My question is. Anyone interested in getting some as I will make more if need be. I'm not sure of the price but will know when the prototype is done. Let me know if you are interested. Inobu |
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« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 05:59:30 pm by inobu »
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CaptOblivious
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 06:30:28 pm » |
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I'm not a German modeler, so I can't say that I'm interested, but this is very nice work Inobu! Also, if you have capabilities for similar projects, I'm willing to bet more than a few of us here can think of ways for you to spend your time and money… :D
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inobu
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 06:41:30 pm » |
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I'm not a German modeler, so I can't say that I'm interested, but this is very nice work Inobu! Also, if you have capabilities for similar projects, I'm willing to bet more than a few of us here can think of ways for you to spend your time and money… :D
I bet you can no no, I know you can and will if I'm not careful. Inobu |
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Bernard
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 06:51:46 pm » |
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I really like them. They have that modern look that would go well with a Shinkansen layout.
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inobu
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010, 08:59:48 pm » |
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I got the bases of the portal done. I know it looks like soap  but it is an ABS prototype. I got a Woodland scenic portal that looked great until I opened the box. I though wow it looks good! too bad it cracked in two!!! With that I can see that they are too delicate and will break in an instant. I'm going to build something really durable. I would like your opinions on something. I can build the tunnel walls as a solid piece ready to go or as a kit where the wall has to be glued together. Which would you prefer and why? You can see in the image the holes on the top base. The tunnel walls will seat in the holes and will butt against each other end to end. They can also extend the depth of the tunnel if you want. Inobu |
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« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 09:04:56 pm by inobu »
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Bernard
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 01:30:04 am » |
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Inobu - That is one of the problems with plaster, it easily breaks. The one good aspect of it is that you can trim and shape it..... just never drop it.
For marketing purposes, having it in 2 pieces would be easier to package than one solid piece. (and smaller to ship)
Also by having it in 2 pieces if you need to make the tunnel wider all you have to do is add a strip in the middle.
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cteno4
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2010, 06:06:41 am » |
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Inobu,
great work. i think a two part casting on the tunnel would be fine as its got quite a bit of meat on it. probably would do fine as a single casting for the tunnel as its pretty beefie around the top there. those ws portals were probably pretty thin at the top and why they cracked so easily.
looking forward to these! im starting to noodle on my layout plans and its looking like several double viaduct shinkansen tunnels in the plan!
cheers
jeff
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omar
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2010, 05:57:07 pm » |
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I am interested. I have a 16 car 700 series and 2 TGV, and Eurostar...
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inobu
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2010, 04:26:03 am » |
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Ok, I got the first article and its ok, I have a few issues I want to address but over all its good. I have extensions that can be added to the tunnels depth, it brings a added perspective for the viewer. This is only the mouth. The walk way supposed to be proportioned but the size is deceiving hard to gauge.. Check out the video below. Look at the people at the top and the guy walking down to the left. I think I got it right. I mixed a few of the other portals features to create something different. Elevated walkway with ramp.
<![CDATA[<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qWu4yDgfW34" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/qWu4yDgfW34</a>]]>Inobu |
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« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 04:29:44 am by inobu »
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Bernard
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2010, 04:14:32 pm » |
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These look great! The plastic that you're using looks very sturdy unlike the WS plaster that easily break.
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inobu
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2010, 05:38:08 pm » |
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Now I see what is kinda bother me. I think I might have over designed the tunnel. Tunnels are mostly tight and cramped with limited spacing. I think I have too much walkway. I need to eliminate the inside partition of the walkway and reduce the width. What do you think? Inobu |
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brill27mcb
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2010, 05:49:07 pm » |
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Now I see what is kinda bother me. I think I might have over designed the tunnel. Tunnels are mostly tight and cramped with limited spacing. I think I have too much walkway. I need to eliminate the inside partition of the walkway and reduce the width. What do you think? Inobu A lot of modern high-speed tunnel entrances are designed to widen out toward the opening, to mitigate the creation of air shock waves when a train enters or leaves the portal. If you do narrow the walkway, consider making the track width opening wide enough for either Tomix or Kato double track... Rich K. |
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« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 05:57:34 pm by brill27mcb »
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cteno4
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2010, 05:54:09 pm » |
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Inobu,
wow nice! thats a hunk of resin!
yes i think you are right the walkways do look like too much and probably are not there on a lot of tunnels to that extent.
also i think the tunnel wall may be a bit too thick, at least visually the feel a bit heavy now in the real thing. your prototype photo with the sound skirt looks like it tapers back to a thinner tunnel wall than the model w/o it currently does. the model looks to be something between 3-4' thick. are these kind of portals that thick on the tunnel walls?
also wonder perhaps making just the portal that goes down to like roadbed height and stops. then have the footings/walkway/ramp sections be separate or perhaps optional pieces as needed. i could see wanting and in cases needing to modify this section over the tunnel arch/portal itself and this is the difficult thing to build.
really is a great model, think you will be able to sell some of these! nice work!
cheers
jeff
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inobu
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2010, 06:20:14 pm » |
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Jeff, Yep, I'm seeing the same thing and keeping going back and forth. I spec everything out and I don't know if it is what we are accustom to see verses what it really is. 160 verses 150 scale verses perception. Look at the video and the guy is standing beside the tunnel wall. It look a lot thicker than he is, which is like you said 3' to 4'. The measurement of the wall is .283" thick which is 3.7 nscale feet. Which is about right. I think it is the width if the walkway and the elevation of the tunnel making it a platform that is throwing everything off. It is a two piece design but the walkway is like a platform instead of a walkway. What you are saying make sense. I'm going to make the changes. I'm building these as sturdy pieces so they can be used over and over. It may cost more but they will out last the plaster and the guarantee that plaster has "it will break". Inobu Jeff I'm designing cost saving measure where I can. Here is the base. |
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« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 06:30:03 pm by inobu »
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inobu
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2010, 06:43:14 pm » |
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Rich, Jeff, Bernard, Don and every one else I'm going to keep the inner width of the tunnel the same but reduce and lower the walkway height and width. I'm going to lower the walkway platform and give it a more ground level look, I want to establish the clearance like the image above. Inobu Thanks for every ones input. |
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cteno4
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2010, 06:46:55 pm » |
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Inobu, you are right it does appear to be like 3' thick there in the video, but i wonder if thats more due to the sonic flair there on this one as that throws perspective all off. your model is the straight out version and i wonder if those are more like 18"-24" thick like the tunnel walls would be. from most tunnel construction i have seen they use precast pieces that look to be around 18" thick, but not sure if they thicken them at the portals or not. here are some picts http://www.town.sotogahama.lg.jp/blog/log/eid179.htmlhttp://gazoo.com/g-blog/toudo21/72594/Article.aspxhttp://fxvs.blog123.fc2.com/blog-entry-6.htmlhttp://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/hmntas/diary/201003180000/some of the entrances also look like they are add-ons to the tunnel face itself and since its not supporting much its pretty thin. only there for acoustic and maybe some debris/snow shielding for the tunnel entrance from the hillside. i think you are also right about something of perceived scale at 1/150 vs 1/1. also maybe color as i only noticed the thickness when you showed picts of the cast and i went back to your drawings as i didnt remember them being as thick, but they were, just it was in a gray, so maybe painted this will change some... really nice casting work! again, fantastic work! cheers jeff |
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inobu
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2010, 08:36:22 pm » |
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ok, Here is the comparison and I see what's going on. "
<![CDATA[<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ANB-yZIJP6o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ANB-yZIJP6o</a>]]>"  I got too much tunnel width and walkway height. I have to create a ICE version and a separate JR version, you cannot mix the two. Back to the drawing board. Inobu |
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inobu
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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2010, 01:05:48 am » |
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I have been racking my brains out wondering how I could have gotten so far off. I started pulling all the data and images I used and go over the requirements . It basis of this portal is from the Irlahülltunne. The requirements I had were to place the walkway in a fashion that would allow it to be raised or modeled at ground level. The builder would add ballast around the base and slope it away from the track giving it a ground level appearance if desired or could slightly raise the base and give it a curb visual.  Did a mock up with the concrete track to see the curb visual and it is different. It funny how much of a difference it makes even with the units. It is really hard to tell what really works without actually building the scenery. I think I better do that before I make any changes. Inobu |
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Bernard
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« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2010, 02:27:10 am » |
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Inobu - I really like the casting that you're doing, I think you should try making a test diorama of it with scenery around it to see how it looks. What I particularly like is the perspective of depth that you give with the length of the tube. Take a look at this early thread started some time ago by one of our members, you might find it interesting: http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,42.msg518.html#msg518 |
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Bernard
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2010, 02:37:24 pm » |
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I don't know of any manufacturer that makes the type of portal you've designed. I think what he used was a PC pipe for his tunnel.
In a diorama I made I had to take a WS double portable and alter it t make it look like a Japanese tunnel portal. Your design is the design!
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cteno4
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« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2010, 07:03:38 pm » |
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Inobu,
dont get discouraged, it was a fantastic first attempt! its a complex enough thing (especially with you casting it!) to hit it on the very first pass!
ive been noodling on trying some with PVC pipe as bernard mentioned and chopping it up with the band saw to see what some ideas would look like.
cheers
jeff
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Webskipper
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« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2010, 05:07:48 am » |
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I would be interested in a pair of portals for Kato Double track. It's a modern look.
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inobu
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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2011, 09:17:15 pm » |
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Tired of the unfinished projects and I have a little time so I'm back on the portal project. I have been unsuccessful in finding actual elevation drawings for the Wahnscheid-Dickheck or like. I did not like the first version. I'm going to try it again. (takes a lot of time). The drawings makes it easier but I can't find any. I did find drawing of a us portal but its huge. 12"x8"x5. Real world dim 183' x 112'x73'. Here is the link is anyone is interested. http://www.calhsr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/TM-2.4.6-Tunnel-Portal-Facilities-R0-100621.pdfI'm not sure what they are building but it is a 3 story facility with venting system. It looks like it will be a bit much for the typical layout. Not sure which way to go. Kinda want a universal HSR portal that will work for all modeling regions. Inobu I really like this one but no dimension data.  Inobu |
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« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 09:19:22 pm by inobu »
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Bernard
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2011, 09:46:00 pm » |
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Glad to see you're back on the Tunnel portable project, you were getting good results.
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Webskipper
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2011, 06:19:49 am » |
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Still can't find the Faller 272582 Ice/Road Tunnel Portal in stock. Due August.
Dimensions 125x170x100mm.
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« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 06:25:29 am by Webskipper »
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inobu
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2011, 08:22:07 am » |
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I see what you mean 7"x5"x4". I guess it is in the ball park. I'm working on a deck for the via duct to connect to. I'm going to try the Nanbuyama. lets see how it goes. Inobu |
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« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 08:24:16 am by inobu »
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inobu
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« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2011, 06:10:12 am » |
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OK, I omitted the plate that way you can place the portal where ever you want. It is as wide as the Viaduct station platform and the tunnel portal is 212 mm. (1 panel short of the via duct track). The block wall 102 mm 83.37 mm tall and 238 wide. Inside tunnel is 65.93 mm tall and 91.61 mm wide. Here is a shorter tunnel. Let me know if you see anything that need changing? I don't mind any type of comments. Going to do a paper cutout to make sure that the size is proportional to the track and train. Inobu |
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 06:17:40 am by inobu »
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inobu
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2011, 09:59:19 pm » |
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I did a really quick paper mock up and the size seems to be good. I have a viaduct that leads into the tunnel. It is the same width as the viaduct station plate. It is hard to gauge the width of the walkway. I wish I had the dimension then there would be no question. The height is the same level as the poles so that looks about right. Look at how deceiving the size factor is, it is so hard to over come. See the concrete studs sticking upfrom the slab and then look at the little windows.  Now look at the guy walking by the stud. LOL really throws you for a loop.  The paper mock ups are the way to go first. I should have done that the last time. Inobu |
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disturbman
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2011, 10:33:51 pm » |
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It looks slightly over-sized to me but it also looks pretty good. Maybe you shouldn't try to be accurate height wise but to produce something that looks good to your eye. Nobody would be able to see a 1 or 2 mm differences.
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Curently in Berlin, dreaming of going back to Japan. |
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inobu
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« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2011, 10:45:39 pm » |
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It looks slightly over-sized to me but it also looks pretty good. Maybe you shouldn't try to be accurate height wise but to produce something that looks good to your eye. Nobody would be able to see a 1 or 2 mm differences.
OK, Do you think the same width of the cantenary poles? I'm going to scale it down to that. Inobu |
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Webskipper
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« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2011, 01:20:39 am » |
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Looks great!
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inobu
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« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2011, 01:23:37 am » |
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Looks great!
Thanks, I put it to the side for a minute got caught up in the controller test. I will do another paper mockup with more detail. Inobu |
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Webskipper
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« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2011, 07:49:47 pm » |
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I'm looking to incorporate these portals into my Ntrak modules to break the monotony between scenes.
Maybe a 1 inch thick border with the portal flanges pointing inwards.
Maybe the Faller portals will work after some cutting.
Let me know when you are ready for production :)
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inobu
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« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2011, 01:46:58 am » |
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ok, Here is the first article of the portal. I used 6lb foam it might be a little too porous. I'm hoping that the coating will close it up and leave a little texture to it , we'll see. I have to cut the underside and then extract it. That will be a challenge I hope I can get it without incident. Inobu |
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Bernard
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« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2011, 02:20:32 am » |
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It's a nice design...I'm hoping you can fix the air bubble problem.
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keitaro
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« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2011, 03:43:14 am » |
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looking nice. Would be interested in this one day when I build next layout. Can't wait to see some finished shots in the future! Good luck!  |
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dreaming of a bigger layout
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linkey
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« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2011, 06:28:01 am » |
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That is really amazing sofar Inobu, can't wait to see how this goes for the final product as it would be very handy to have in a layout. as I feel that there isn't that much of tunnel portals that are designed for shinkansen/ICE trains. Keep it up and best of luck.
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SJ Brennan-Dunn
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inobu
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« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2011, 07:06:51 am » |
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ok, Here is the first cut article. I think I will try a sectional component it looks to be the better solution. Still have to address the size issue and this foam is too light, need denser foam to create more detail. over all it ok for the first round. I will start on the next one. Inobu |
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cteno4
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« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2011, 07:39:52 am » |
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Inobu,
i am in awe of how fast you can whip this stuff out and do such fantastic casting!
something changed in the shape though from your circular paper prototype and this casting, what was caused this? to be honest i liked the nice circular design, but your casting is superb!!!
cheers
jeff
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Webskipper
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« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2011, 02:21:08 am » |
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Looks like the prototype to me.
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Webskipper
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« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2011, 03:51:22 am » |
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Are there 3 track, high speed Portals?
The Faller 272582 and the Noch 34840 are both around 105mm wide each.
Need to contain 3 Unitracks that will span 125mm. Ntrak standards.
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