Godzilla Sidings

[kevinrandell]

First attempt at a layout design. I want something to fit 900mm X 1800mm max, double main line, some storage and options for a town scene and elevated countryside with tunnels.

At the present I have only the N700 starter with the M1 track and a decent godzilla.

Any options or suggestions,

Cheers,
Kev

[quinntopia]

Hi Kevin!  Two suggestions...is there any way for you to break up the oval so its not so geometrically correct?  Even though the space you have is pretty well optimized for operations, a standard oval loop can get repetitive....even the slightest curve on one of your straight areas will make it a lot more interesting for....its especially cool to see train sets like the N700 go through very slight curves.

As for godzilla, I think you got the right idea!  I'm still waiting on an N scale version of some "Counter Xenomorph Self Defense Force Japan" vehicles!

[kevinrandell]

How about this? I have tried various times to mix up the curves but have had trouble trying to get things to line up...

[Bernard]

Kevin - First off I really like your Avatar...and knowing the nature of the forum I'm surprised no one else thought of it sooner. You scooped everyone.
I like Quinn suggestion it changes the pattern of the layout, but I have a few questions.
What type of scene do you want to model on the layout? (City, town, rural, etc.) I'm asking this so in advance you can plan where you want to put it. (If you're going to use Godzilla I don't think it will have the same impact if he was attacking a rice field rather than a city....but then who knows maybe he's become a Vegan )
Next, you have the N700, is that the 3 car set and if so do you plan on getting additional cars for it? If so, you might want to position the lower yard so that you can extend the track further out to accommodate a larger train in the future.
How many trains do you plan on running on it at one time?

What is always nice to have in a layout is hidden sections where you don't see the train all the time. Trees can block can do this, a tunnel, buildings, etc.
I do like your plan, it has a lot of action in it and you can run multiple trains. 

[kevinrandell]

Bernard,

On the right hand side next to the bridges I plan to have 2 tunnel entrances. I will raise the track going into and out of the tunnels. I will cut a river section under the bridges into a small lake. On top of the tunnel / hills I will try and make a small temple scene, with some more rural components at the base of the mountain / around the lake. To the left of the inner siding I intend to make it more of a town landscape similar to the outskirts of Tokyo where I live. I am not trying to really replicate a region and just what to create something that looks strongly Japanese in character.

The hidden elements will be provided by the tunnels and possibly some high buildings in the middle top part of the loops.

I just picked up the 10-007 starter set and do not intend to expand to the full size. My next purchase will likely be a freight option and hopefully one of the "painted trains". I am also currently looking for a Micro Ace Doraemon train in the second hand shops around Tokyo at the moment.

I would like to run 2 trains at the same time. If this is the case do I have to put insulated joiners somewhere on the circuit?


Cheers,
Kev

[KenS]

I would like to run 2 trains at the same time. If this is the case do I have to put insulated joiners somewhere on the circuit?

No, if you plan carefully. My first layout was a big double loop with a small freight yard/siding, and I could run three trains (one in the yard), with three power packs but no insulated joiners.

From the part numbers on the diagram you're using Unitrack. The double-crossover is your only connection between the inner and outer loops, and it insulates the two lines from each other, so you can run a train on each loop if you have two power packs.

The #6 switches are also insulated (on one rail, the inner, but that's all it takes), so you can park a train in a siding and throw the switch away from it and it won't get power, then throw it back (once the other train is in a siding) to power it, without needing fancy block controls.

If you have only one power connection to each loop, put it on the left end, so power will feed into the switches (the double-crossover gaps the track along the line, so power is going to flow across the top of the diagram).  Think of power flow with power-routing switches like train flow, it follows the direction a train can move.

I'd actually use a splitter and connect each power pack to one loop in two places, top and bottom, for improved reliability, but you don't have to do that.  I've run a larger loop with one connection. And if you do it, place the connections for the outer loop both to the left of the switches for the siding at the right end, that way you can use the two switches to isolate the inside arc of the outer loop from the outside, with only one powered at a time, to allow two trains to take turns.

If you wanted to run two trains on one of the loops, then you'd need to get fancier with insulators and selector switches.

[cteno4]

Kevin,

Glad you are jumping into this, will be great fun and you started right with a godzilla for it!

I agree with Bernard that having a little extra wiggle there will help it not feel like a race track with the sheer 180 coming back. the mountain in one corer is a great way to break up the race track feeling as well and could even extend it further along the back side to hide more track as with a small layout like this sometimes you end up with the whole table covered in track... hard to have your cake and eat it too!

only downside to this is that the S curve it creates can at time be a problem for longer trains. there is a small section of straight in the middle of the S, but not sure if its enough to break the S curve problem. we have found that 128 between the large radius double viaduct curves seems to eliminate most of the S curve problems and makes the wiggle look a bit more graceful.

will warn you on the kato n700 that when it gets longer it can be a bit of a finicky train. its by far the worst 16 car train on the jrm layout. i think its the high coupler they have in the diaphragms that may lift the wheels some, not sure, but its not been a great runner in the 16 car formation as the tomix n700, kato 700, tomix and kato 500, kato 0, tomix 100 are. most of those will go for hours w/o a problem. realize you probably wont be running a 16 car config on this layout, and we have not experimented with a shorter kato n700 to see if it runs fine at like 6 or 8 cars, only played with the 16 car config.

have fun and its great you are in tokyo for this hobby!

cheers

jeff

[kevinrandell]

Almost ready to get started. Holidays start in 2 weeks and I have 2 months to build / start my layout. "Godzilla Sidings" is going to become "Godzilla Ridge". WS Scenic ridge appears to be a good cheap starting point for a new layout and provide the materials needed for practice. I have taken aboard much inspiration from qwertyaardvark's layout.

There is a bit of the roundy-round feeling for the main loop, but I will break this up with changes of elevation, the tunnel system and variation / hiding in terrain and buildings. This should provide a variety of viewing angles. I am also trying to optimise my track purchases, using Kato packs with a minmum of extra packets. The number of turnouts and sidings has been reduced to allow for more pockets of scenic elements.

Cheers,
Kev

[cteno4]

Kev,

this looks grand! its a nice improvement with the inner folded figure 8, it will make it fun with the tunnels trying to figure out where the train is going to go and come out! you got a lot in in the 3x6 space!

with all the elevation and tunnel entrances you should have lots of nice views like you mention as well.

thanks for the godzilla roar! i have that one on my 5" goji, nice to have it on the computer i think it might be the beep sound for a while!

cheers

jeff

[KenS]

That's looks like a design that will give you a lot of fun, and I don't think it's going to feel like a simple tail-chasing oval.  Between the hidden curve at the left, and the fact that trains on the inner loop don't simply run from front to back, it should "feel" like there's more there than just an oval.

One suggestion I'd make: right now, the "station area" has no place for a platform (unlesses there's a couple of inches on the front not shown).  If you move the crossover to the right rear, you'd have room to open out the space between the two main tracks at the front with R481 curves, making room for an island platform.

That does put the crossover on a grade, which isn't perfect, but I'd consider it acceptable. And you'd need to shorten the siding, which might be more of a problem, depending on what you want to use it for.

[IST]

Maybe I would try to add plus one siding. It will be useful when you increase your train fleet.

OFF
Could you please give me a hint where can I buy Godzilla figure? It would be funny to put it on my layout sometimes.

[cteno4]

Ist

moved godzilla info over to the godzilla thread, getting long OT:

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,506.0.html

cheers

jeff

[bill937ca]

You are going to start showing up goji searches along with Tomytec bus collection, Jeff!!   

[cteno4]

if only tomytec did a goji! ;-p actually you see in this picture i do combine my interests...

jeff

[Shashinka]

The doc said no more oil tankers or Micky D's. It's bad for his cholesterol.

[IST]

Thanks Jeff, your links are very useful. Now I should choose one on the eBay.

[cteno4]

IST

you are most welcome. unfortunately ebay seems the best route, there are gojis out there in speciality shops and such but usually come at a premium price. lurking ebay as the best route for something reasonably priced. first 15" goji i got a few years back was like $25 shipped, then later was able to get a backup for less than $10 when one popped up cheap. might be a bit more of a challenge in Hungary, but i expect there are a number floating around europe! is godzilla big in europe?

cheers

jeff

[IST]

eBay would be the best solution as I did not find any Godzilla figure in the biggest Hungarian hobby shops.
There is no hype about Godzilla here. I think lot of people heard of it, some of them have already sean movies with Godzilla also, but I do not think that there is a fan base or something like this.
I am afraid we started to go offtopic here. :-)

[kevinrandell]

Last few mods. To fit in the platforms I have to widen the spacing, I think that I have the geometry and spacing right. This means that I lose the siding. Any ideas if i can have a siding anywhere that would fit?

WRT to the godzillas, they are in wide abundance here in Tokyo. Apart from the speciality shops like Mandrake in Nakano, hey pop up regularly in discount shops. Mine is a half size (25m high to scale) that cost Y200 from the local flea market. There is a guy at the market who always have a table full of variuos sizes...

Cheers,
Kev

[kevinrandell]

Finally started putting something together after picking up Scenic Ridge at Tam Tam.

I shortened the overall length slightly so I have some edge on my layout. Next I will place the risers and check the slopes and elevations and all electrical connections and switches.

It is stinking hot here in Tokyo and the hobby room has no a/c so I have a small work window in the morning and evening...

[kevinrandell]

Skipping a few steps it is now a working layout...
Only had one small hiccup, after much testing the train still got stuck in the tunnel, once the plaster was put on of course.

Now for painting, flocking, ballasting, trees, roads, buildings...

[Bernard]

Kevin - really nice layout, I like that the train changes directions and disappears into tunnels.

[Mudkip Orange]

Kevin - really nice layout

Agreed, I am a big folded dogbone proponent and many of my track plans also fall into this basic outline.

One suggestion, in your last track plan you have both an island platform -and- a side platform with station building. You might consider deleting one of these platforms to make room for a siding - either delete the side platform and have a siding that branches off from the right side inner loop and follows the figure eight, or delete the island platform and have a pocket track.

[Mudkip Orange]

Like this maybe.

[KenS]

I like the red track proposal.  With the right scenery, you could probably make it look like a separate-but-nearby station serving passengers interchanging to another line. This presumes you also want to run some smaller trains.

I'm not so sure about the blue.  You gain some operational variation, but lose the "big station" feel of that area.  If you want to model primarily a small town served by short trains that would work. But since the original starting point was an N700, I don't think that would "feel" right.  You would lose the Shinkanen Station feel by downsizing the station.

[kevinrandell]

I really liked the red line idea as a siding, as I lost my sidings going into the current design. But as I already have the Suburban station and platform sets courtesy of a gift it will stay as is for the time being.

I am trying to make my flat areas really flat at the moment for buildings. The plaster cloth and join marks for the foam underneath show through a bit to create uneven surfaces. I have some http://www.scalescenes.com tarmac to cover the built up areas and kato ballast (flecked the same way as the unitrack) to fill in other areas.

[kevinrandell]

Putting together my Tomix and Kato buildings to test place around the layout.

Starting to add ballast around the track.

Built a stairway up to the temple.

Washed the rocks...

[Mudkip Orange]

Pretty cool how quickly this is coming together.

[keitaro]

just have a quick question in 3rd pic the tracks seem very close togther is this just perception of the shot ?

just look alot closer than the standard is all

btw looking great I'm about to thet to that stage just needs this stupid sal to arrive.

[kevinrandell]

The tracks go from separation to fit the platform to effectively a double track so the spacing decreases quite a bit around the top corner.

I have finished ballasting, just need to vacuum up the loose bits and probably give the track a bit of a cleanup for any odd bits of grit or glue.

I have also given the plaster a wash with WS earth colour. I wish I had smeared the ends of the plaster cloth more to get a better blend, the edges show up a bit unsightly. The wash gives a surprisingly nice finish prior to the application of the flock and foliage.

The WS scenic cement does not seem to give a nice mist when spraying, but can be a bit globby. Has anyone else had a better experience with this?

Pictures to come...

Cheers,
Kev

[Martijn Meerts]

I have also given the plaster a wash with WS earth colour. I wish I had smeared the ends of the plaster cloth more to get a better blend, the edges show up a bit unsightly. The wash gives a surprisingly nice finish prior to the application of the flock and foliage.

The WS scenic cement does not seem to give a nice mist when spraying, but can be a bit globby. Has anyone else had a better experience with this?

Pictures to come...

Cheers,
Kev

What I tend to do after adding plaster cloth, is mix up some plaster and go over the entire part I just added plaster cloth to. I find that plaster cloth (or at least, the variant I use) just don't have enough plaster to get a smooth finish. The layer I add is really only just enough to hide the cloth pattern, and as an added benefit you get a little more rock-like structure. Of course for parts that will be covered with flock and foliage, it doesn't matter if the cloth pattern is visible.

I tried the WS scenic cement and scenic sprayer once. It was included in some starter kit I bought from WS. I pretty much immediately tossed the sprayer in the trash, it's a piece of junk ... I also tried a small sprayer which creates a much finer mist, but because the white glue/water mixture isn't as liquid as water, it got tiring after a while. For now I went back to the good 'ol eye dropper. I have some other things I need to try, including using a very sticky type of wall primer paint, which seems to work really well.

[kevinrandell]

I gave the whole lot a wash with WS Earth Colour and plaster clothed the sides. I got about 1/3 of the way through an initial coat of WS blended turf before I ran out of scenic cement. 

I plan to come back later to tidy up the gray areas where the station and town will fit in. I haven't quit worked out the format for the ground to the left of the bridge above the station. I was thinking of one of the Tomytec town collections...

[Mudkip Orange]

With that color palette it almost looks like West Texas or New Mexico. I half expect to see the Southwest Chief rollin' through.

How do you get the little sparse bits of turf to stick to the side of the vertical walls, as in the last picture? I would assume any glue that can hold those to the side would cause the entire wall to get blanketed in turf...

[kevinrandell]

The colour scheme will change a lot as I develop the layout. This initial base is just to get a coverage so I am not running the trains through a snowfield of plaster. On the sides I have just sprayed first with scenic cement and flyspecked some flock. Some of the steeper sections will get some retaining walls built out of some material I got from Tokyu Hands.

[lordwinslow2]

Wow this is coming along nicely.  Good job.

Winslow

[Bernard]

Kevin - Do you work in a very neat and tidy fashion... wish I did. 
Is that a "dust pan" that is on your layout?
You are getting very realistic results with your scenery, great work!

[kevinrandell]

Everything is in storage boxes and toolboxes and I clean up after each stage. The setup is in the tatami mat room (our guest room) and I have to be ready to move at short notice. The layout also has to spend time sideways against the wall when we have visitors...


Cheers,
Kev

[kevinrandell]

As my work has closed during the current crisis I have some extra time up my hand, so ...

I have given the whole layout a dust of WS Blended and Accent turfs. Next step some medium cover, then clump-foliage and trees. I also touched up some of the ballast that got a little overgrown in the process.

To be honest I am not a great fan of some of the Japanese layouts that cover the hills with clump foliage into a solid mass. (Although it does actually look like the scenery out of the train window and has a good look at about 3 feet.) So my layout will have a more irregular look to ground cover and trees. Anyway I can always keep adding more layers as I go along, but at each stage I like it to look sort of OK.

Cheers,
Kev

[keitaro]

I'm not much of a clump man either I wanted to deck my layout with real trees and wanted to go with decked out pine mountain however my layout for now needs to be placed into storage when not in use and risks too much damage to trees if I were to do that all the time.

So I had to go down that path.

looking good though

[kevinrandell]

Another week ... another layer.

Added low shrubs and trees and painted the side boards. Next time I think I will have less hills and more town.

Even though I taped over the track I still had to give a thorough clean, there are still a few sticky spots. The points don't operate perfectly now as well, some grit and bits into the mechanisms and on the edge of the rails. I am working carefully to get clean again.

Next in line...
1) add detail and stickers to station and platform
2) detail the station area including fences and road markings
3) build a small town at the base of temple
4) add a Torii and railings for the steps to the temple
5) add some more buildings and features around the pagoda
6) find some spare cash to build the main town in the centre of the loop

Cheers,
Kev

[KenS]

I really like the look of the hill area. The blend of colors and sizes looks good, and conveys an impression of an area left to the wild.  I think it will make a nice counterpoint to the town once you have one.

[kevinrandell]

A few different angles showing the resident fauna of the area.

I currently working out the stickers for the Kato Station 23-211 and Signal Tower 23-215. Some of the stickers for station I am a bit unsure about, even looking at the box instructions. The Signal Tower is more confusing. Does anyone have some shots of the stickers in place?

I am after some good looking fence to block off the area around the station, I am thinking of using this http://cgi.ebay.com/Net-Fence-Green-1-150-N-scale-Casco-YP-302-/120695501181 fence, what do you think or are there better recommendations?


Cheers,
Kev

[bill937ca]

Usually stations have low fences around them.  The Casco fence looks like something around a factory.
Tsugawa and Greenmax offer railway barriers (Greenmax has two versions-concrete or recycled railway ties. A third choice is Kato 23-223, but it doesn't seem to be available right now.

Your hills could even be even greener.  Here's a selection of You Tube videos with freight and passenger trains in lush green scenery.  Japan has a rainy season in late Spring and early Summer.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/i-HyKNKgej0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/i-HyKNKgej0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OzSKRa0a84k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/OzSKRa0a84k</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1mmFnZFMOaU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/1mmFnZFMOaU</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/88tBvrWMvg4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/88tBvrWMvg4</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/pUeMDhATRTA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/pUeMDhATRTA</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BWN0qHuWSwU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/BWN0qHuWSwU</a>