So you want to try Tomix FineTrack?

[NORM]

We've used Kato track on our Japanese exhibition layouts for some years now and have no problems with it.  We've also used Tomix track on my wife's German N gauge layout, again with no problems.

NORM.

[GrahamH]

I have the Tomix turntable. I bought it in Japan about 5 years ago and I have been very pleased with it.
Graham H

[disturbman]

Does someone here knows how the new Cant Rail (the wide rails) from Tomix works? Do you really need a transition piece between a curved and a straight?

[CaptOblivious]

Does someone here knows how the new Cant Rail (the wide rails) from Tomix works? Do you really need a transition piece between a curved and a straight?

Good question. I really want to buy some, but I just don't have the justification for it right now—the curves are too wide to fit on my desk!

[disturbman]

True. We will know for sure in a few weeks. I ordered today enough curves - and just in case, the so called "approach track" - to form a (very big) oval.

Answer in a month or so.

[CaptOblivious]

I suspect that you could use regular FineTrack curves as approaches, but it would be twisted slightly, and might look funny. I'm that you could just attach the canted curves to the regular straights, but that it would look really funny.

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

In regards to this new wide PC stuff.. is it compatible with the regular fine track?  I would sure assume so.. but I haven't seen anything say that yes it is.  The plastic trackbed looks to be twice as wide as the regular fine track.. which makes me think it will look very strange if you match the two together without ballasting the whole thing to hide the difference in the trackbed widths..

Then again.. maybe this is just me.. but I wish tomix/kato would sell turnouts in something other than the wooden ties.  I think it looks really off having high-speed concrete slab rail (or concrete ties) and smack in the middle is this wooden tie double crossover.  I know.. I know.. it's probably not profitable for them to make 3 different roadbeds for turnouts.. but dang I wish they would..

The idea of a single track elevated curve is fantastic.. but like the Captain said.. the curves are too big a radius for my shelf layout..

[disturbman]

That's exactly my reasoning. Both type of tracks can connect with one other. The real funky part is the superelevated stuff. I'm guessing you can't connected to everything... or maybe you can but at your own risk. Doing that will certainly lead to horrible crashing sound.

As for myself, I don't really care for the wide radii, the difference in width and ties... I'll be using this with my floor layout. Having a nice superelevated curve has no price in my opinion. 

[CaptOblivious]

The two systems use identical connectors, so you can freely mix regular FineTrack (and older Tomix tracks) with the wide PC track. But the difference in ballasting will make them look a little odd together…

hey hey,

In regards to this new wide PC stuff.. is it compatible with the regular fine track?  I would sure assume so.. but I haven't seen anything say that yes it is.  The plastic trackbed looks to be twice as wide as the regular fine track.. which makes me think it will look very strange if you match the two together without ballasting the whole thing to hide the difference in the trackbed widths..

Then again.. maybe this is just me.. but I wish tomix/kato would sell turnouts in something other than the wooden ties.  I think it looks really off having high-speed concrete slab rail (or concrete ties) and smack in the middle is this wooden tie double crossover.  I know.. I know.. it's probably not profitable for them to make 3 different roadbeds for turnouts.. but dang I wish they would..

The idea of a single track elevated curve is fantastic.. but like the Captain said.. the curves are too big a radius for my shelf layout..

[bill937ca]

hey hey,

In regards to this new wide PC stuff.. is it compatible with the regular fine track?  I would sure assume so.. but I haven't seen anything say that yes it is.  The plastic trackbed looks to be twice as wide as the regular fine track.. which makes me think it will look very strange if you match the two together without ballasting the whole thing to hide the difference in the trackbed widths..

There are several ways you could around this by making the transition on either side of a station, a tunnel or an overpass or even just a level crossing.

[CaptOblivious]

Tomix has a new page up with some nice pictures and description of the system:

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/menu/tomix_3_3.htm

Interesting tidbits:

It is 100% compatible with regular FineTrack—even the canted pieces, if you needed to do something odd!

The wide parts apparently come off, to give it a profile very close to regular FineTrack. I presume that this is to help with placing stations close enough to the track.

[disturbman]

Thanks Don, the page is great.

Today I add a motor to one of my turnouts. It was simple and painless. Incredible! I certainly wasn't thinking it could be a so easy process.

[wasunka]

Kato likes 66mm track centers for their platforms. 

Joe

Wow awsome informative topic! Thanks a lot this has helped me out perfectly! I really want the DX ;D. If it possible to link kato stations to tomix finetrack btw?

Thanks! That's why were here.  ;D

The Kato platforms will fit only if you are handy with scratchbuilding techniques. Tomix stations are designed to sit between tracks with centers 55.5mm apart. Kato stations are designed to sit between tracks with centers...I forget, a different distance apart. Further apart, I think, so Kato platforms are wider than would fit Tomix track. This of course only applies to island platforms; wing platforms, or whatever they're called, that sit outside the track will fit regardless.

[wasunka]

I am building a TTrak module with two industrial sidings, and am using the Tomix track to give the sidings a different appearance from the main lines.  The module is 620mm long (2x in TTrak units.)  I really do like the Tomix track.  It will get used more around here.

A bit of cutting was necessary to get the Kato crossing to fit and keep the 33mm spacing.  The Kato 'Snap Track' adapter was made for the Tomix.  It fits together easily, as easily as two Tomix or two Kato pieces.
More details have been posted in the Kato Unitrack and TTrak Yahoo groups.  Soon, I'll set up a test loop and play with the switching. 

This is one of a set of 8 to 10 new modules, all with a somewhat dense city theme.  It may not be pure Japanese, but then I've only seen the Narita International area, and that was 15+ years ago.  Target date for all is April, 2010.
A feature on them will be a Tomix tram loop.  It will occupy a lower level, beneath an elevated station.  That scene will be 1860mm long in a pair of 930mm sections, for portability.

Joe

[wasunka]

Kato wants 66m spacing for their platforms.

Joe

Wow awsome informative topic! Thanks a lot this has helped me out perfectly! I really want the DX ;D. If it possible to link kato stations to tomix finetrack btw?

Thanks! That's why were here.  ;D

The Kato platforms will fit only if you are handy with scratchbuilding techniques. Tomix stations are designed to sit between tracks with centers 55.5mm apart. Kato stations are designed to sit between tracks with centers...I forget, a different distance apart. Further apart, I think, so Kato platforms are wider than would fit Tomix track. This of course only applies to island platforms; wing platforms, or whatever they're called, that sit outside the track will fit regardless.

[CaptOblivious]

Kato likes 66mm track centers for their platforms. 

Joe, thanks that's useful information to know! How wide is Unitrack? FineTrack is 18.5mm wide, allowing for platforms 37mm wide (at 55.5mm center-to-center spacing).

[David]

Kato likes 66mm track centers for their platforms. 

Joe, thanks that's useful information to know! How wide is Unitrack? FineTrack is 18.5mm wide, allowing for platforms 37mm wide (at 55.5mm center-to-center spacing).

Unitrack is 25mm wide.

[CaptOblivious]

Kato likes 66mm track centers for their platforms. 

Joe, thanks that's useful information to know! How wide is Unitrack? FineTrack is 18.5mm wide, allowing for platforms 37mm wide (at 55.5mm center-to-center spacing).

Unitrack is 25mm wide.

Which makes Kato island platforms 41mm wide. Just a hair too wide for FineTrack, but perhaps the ambitious modeler could rectify that…

[Shashinka]

Kato likes 66mm track centers for their platforms. 

Joe, thanks that's useful information to know! How wide is Unitrack? FineTrack is 18.5mm wide, allowing for platforms 37mm wide (at 55.5mm center-to-center spacing).

Unitrack is 25mm wide.

Which makes Kato island platforms 41mm wide. Just a hair too wide for FineTrack, but perhaps the ambitious modeler could rectify that…

More ambitious than I am.

[to2leo]

I have 2 questions about Tomix turnouts. 
1) What do I need to get to control Tomix's 3 ways turnout? Does it offer smart power routing like Kato Unitrack? Are they reliable?

2)  How do I connect Tomix turnout switch with existing Kato transformer and/or turnout switch?

[bill937ca]

2)  How do I connect Tomix turnout switch with existing Kato transformer and/or turnout switch?

I've never heard of a provision for this.  I believe this is quite intentional by the manufacturers.  Just another little Japanese monopoly.

[to2leo]

Oh, so I need to get a Tomix transformer just to make it work 

What about the turnout switch?

[bill937ca]

I have 2 questions about Tomix turnouts.  
1) What do I need to get to control Tomix's 3 ways turnout? Does it offer smart power routing like Kato Unitrack? Are they reliable?

You could use the Tomix 5533 (which allows multiple plugs for switch controls) plus individual switch controls for each point which you plug into the 5533. That is how the double crossover is controlled.

There is a 5536 with three plugs.  This may be new. I'm not sure how the third switch would be controlled with the 5536.

5533

http://www.samuraiexp.com/T_trucks/T5533.html

5536

http://www.samuraiexp.com/T_trucks/T5536.html

5531  standard single switch control .

http://www.samuraiexp.com/T_trucks/T5531.html

Edit: The three way only has two cords so you could probably just use two 5531s and it would not be that much different than two switches back to back.  For each point you either choose straight or into the point direction.

[to2leo]

Thanks Bill!  Now I get it.

BTW you link has let me to another question.  Samurai Express was one of my fav ebay sellers.  Do you know it he still selling any products?  Are you  a member to his current online shop?

The prices look very very good!

[bill937ca]

Thanks Bill!  Now I get it.

BTW you link has let me to another question.  Samurai Express was one of my fav ebay sellers.  Do you know it he still selling any products?  Are you  a member to his current online shop?

The prices look very very good!

I've never purchased from Samurai Express, so I really dont' know.  But I have heard of other people who have purchased from him and are happy.  If I'm not mistaken he operates a hobby shop and his ebay was extra items.

[Mudkip Orange]

Bumping this thread just because 177140103 is one of the greatest youtube users of all time.

[Mudkip Orange]

Oh wait, it was already stickied. D'oh!

[disturbman]

I received last week some Cant tracks. Very nice, the super elevation is very smooth and nice. I love to see the train tilt on the curves. There is indeed no problem to connect different type of tracks and the difference of track bed doesn't bother me at all. I allmost don't see it. I need to add that you really need those curvy transition pieces. A normal curve is 45° and a transition is 22.5°. To make a full 180° curve you need two transition pieces and 3 normal curves. If you run Finetrack you need to buy those they really are great.

Now, I have to find what I need to elevate a part of my floor layout.

I also received to Y-turnouts. They are very awesome but maybe a bit tricky and instable. I got 1 derailment since I got them, 1 in 3 or 4 hour of use. that's not a lot but still, it could be a warning... and I still don't know what happened. Maybe it was just my train couplers. Maybe it was the turnouts... or a devilish plan they decided to put in action during a run...

[bill937ca]

I also received to Y-turnouts. They are very awesome but maybe a bit tricky and instable. I got 1 derailment since I got them, 1 in 3 or 4 hour of use. that's not a lot but still, it could be a warning... and I still don't know what happened. Maybe it was just my train couplers. Maybe it was the turnouts... or a devilish plan they decided to put in action during a run...

I've used those for a couple of years and other than one train I've had very few problems. It's only a 15 degree curve. I love how the trains look as they go through the Y switch.

[disturbman]

Nice to hear. I was still not abble to reproduce the crash. Which happened after like 15 continuous loops.

I love how the trains look as they go through the Y switch.

Me too. They look more than ever like a snake. I love to watch them go through. It brings each time a big smile on my face.

[David]

I've got a question about Tomix points (switches). They all seem to have this odd oval piece with two black marks sticking off the switch - what is the function of this? Is it a manual throw switch or part of the electrical switch? Can it be removed? (honestly it looks ugly, I initially used Kato over US track because their switches hid the model specific mechanics).

[Martijn Meerts]

That's a little detail for a manual throw lever. You can just remove it, since even if you want the little additional detail, you'll still need to take the bit off the turnout and put it back on slightly differently (see the pictures in the manual.)

[David]

In course of investigating what I could do in the way of a small diorama layout I ordered some FineTrack, specifically this mini rail set (oval of R177 and R140), along with R103 curve and a power extension cable which I chopped up to create a Kato<->Tomix adapter cable.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10045806

While everything I tested got through the R177, R140 caused partial or full derailment for everything but some Bachmann 0-6-0 locos. With R140 impassable it also made the R140 switches I'd need for a mini rail layout useless. Still it was a chance to see what FineTrack was in the flesh, and here are some of my personal thoughts:

The track connector is in two pieces (rail and ballast). The rail connector looks a bit more complex then the cheap scrap of metal you get with Atlas sectional track - there is almost a second little layer folded into it, creating a tight connection. I'd give it a longer useful life then regular rail joiners, though personally I think it would wear out if taken apart and put back together frequently unlike the self healing Unijoiner.

The actual fit between the track pieces is excellent - it's pretty painless to connect or dismantle, and it joins much closer/tighter then Unitrack. While the rail was not perfectly smooth as one commenter suggested, it was closer and had none of the flex of a Unitrack connection. It was possible to pick up the entire loop from one point and hold it without joints bending under the tracks weight.

The tie detail is very nice - the ties stand out much more then they do with Unitrack. One downside is that the Finetrack follows the same pattern of most sectional track by having pre-drilled holes for inserting nails. I personally dislike this as the (scale wise) giant holes distract from the apperance.

There are also gaps in the ballast just under the rails where the power supply connects - from a distance these are invisible, but up close the gap is rather odd looking. The power connector itself connects very reliabily, but is very visible (they've tried to disguise the big box portion by making it look like a piece of trackside equipment). However the part under the rails is very noticable (it is that brass color and reflective), I'd personally want to hide it somewhere like a tunnel.

The ballast coloring and detail is also very nice, a bit darker then Unitrack though I think it also manages to look a bit less plastic (that may be size related too). The only minus was that even in my one package I noticed rather extreme color variation - I had a curve meeting a straight, with a very sudden change from dark to light ballast. Either it is made with that wild variation at the factory, or the plastic is very sensitive to sunlight.

While the ballast size difference between Unitrack and Finetrack is seamingly small, 25mm vs. 18mm, in person there is a huge difference in size. Unitrack is huge compared to the minimalist Finetrack.

Both Unitrack and Finetrack use different connectors, however I found it very easy to splice a Kato extension cable to a Tomix extension cable, allowing me to use a Kato power pack (this could also be used for Kato switches, and with the remaining pieces a reverse connector could be made for attaching Tomix power to Kato rail)

Overall if I didn't already have a large investment in Unitrack I would consider using Finetrack for it's high quality, and may do so in future for a seperate layout. The more compact size and the very tight fit impressed me.

[bill937ca]

I find Mini Fine Track and Super Mini Fine Track is used mostly for trams(anywhere) and has a huge market for B Train Shorty layouts in Japan.

[bill937ca]

There are also gaps in the ballast just under the rails where the power supply connects - from a distance these are invisible, but up close the gap is rather odd looking. The power connector itself connects very reliabily, but is very visible (they've tried to disguise the big box portion by making it look like a piece of trackside equipment). However the part under the rails is very noticable (it is that brass color and reflective), I'd personally want to hide it somewhere like a tunnel.

Those DC feeder installation mouths look huge but when you are working on the layout they can be surprisingly hard to locate.  Tomix now has under track DC feeders for the Wide PC Rail.  The under track DC feeder installation mouth also allows you to change the polarity depending on the side the feeder is inserted from.  A double track layout can be run from a single power pack, but both trains run at approximately the same speed.  Even with that you can still have some further control over the trains with power routing switches

[Toni Babelony]

Ah, that's good to know. I've just ordered an Enoden 1000 Series and C140 curves :)

[stevenh]

...While the ballast size difference between Unitrack and Finetrack is seamingly small, 25mm vs. 18mm, in person there is a huge difference in size. Unitrack is huge compared to the minimalist Finetrack...

I've just recently been toying with a small layout and realised that there had always been an issue with the Tomix Finetrack... the ballast is, although very nice, too high. So I sunk the track (around 6-10mm) into the foam base and intend on adding my own ballast to smoothen it out. The effect is already paying off and adds a much more realistic look to the layout.

[Jes]

I've just recently been toying with a small layout and realised that there had always been an issue with the Tomix Finetrack... the ballast is, although very nice, too high. So I sunk the track (around 6-10mm) into the foam base and intend on adding my own ballast to smoothen it out. The effect is already paying off and adds a much more realistic look to the layout.

That's exacly what I did to enhance the appearance of my Tomix track.
See the difference between ballasted and unballasted track here.

[CaptOblivious]

That's a very interesting solution to improving the looks!

[quinntopia]

Reading through this thread, there's a lot of questions about compatibility, so I thought I'd share my own experience.  I started 'dabbling' with a Tomix Finetrack (I used to be 100% Unitrack) given that they were the first to market with super-elevated curves and have the tightest radii curves for trams available.  I'm currently using Unitrack, Atlas, Minitrix and Fleischmann Profitrack on my layout given that they all have distinct benefits or features that no else has (e.g. pre-ballasted flex track from Fleischmann, extra Minitrix track from a starter set, the aforementioned unique items from Tomix...etc...).  So far, they all work well together, the only challenge being that the different ballast, or lack thereof, will require a lot of scenic work to make it all look consistent (and you'll need to add roadbed and work on some of the connectors a bit for matching some of the track together, but this is fairly easy to do).

I found a fascinating site with some of the most detailed data on just about every available producer of N Gauge track from around the world (unfortuantely, its in German).  
http://www.spur-n.com/nschienen.html  
Well worth a look just for the "N gauge" geek-out feeling you'll get!

[wasunka]

I've just recently been toying with a small layout and realised that there had always been an issue with the Tomix Finetrack... the ballast is, although very nice, too high. So I sunk the track (around 6-10mm) into the foam base and intend on adding my own ballast to smoothen it out. The effect is already paying off and adds a much more realistic look to the layout.

That's exacly what I did to enhance the appearance of my Tomix track.
See the difference between ballasted and unballasted track here.

Very useful, thanks.  I jumped over there and subscribed to your blog. 

[kmcsjr]

So who's run what on the 177 and possibly 144 radii? I'm thinking about a fleiscmann 0-4-0 pulling short 2 axle cars up to Kato commuter sets. I guess I will order some and try it. I wil also look up mr 177140103.

[Martijn Meerts]

Fleischmann are generally designed to be able to handle their own smallest radius curve, and since recently also the minitrix smallest radius curve (around 190mm I believe). They might be able to handle C177, but I don't think they could handle C140. There's just not enough clearance for the wheels to move sideways.

[KenS]

So who's run what on the 177 and possibly 144 radii? I'm thinking about a fleiscmann 0-4-0 pulling short 2 axle cars up to Kato commuter sets. I guess I will order some and try it. I wil also look up mr 177140103.

In addition to trams, a surprising number of Japanese trains will negotiate 177mm, and according to the site linked below Tomix's E231 will even negotiate 140mm (although Kato's E231 can't handle even 177mm). Much depends on the couplers (note that the passenger trains depicted at the top of the second page appear to be equiped with Rapido couplers).

The first link below (trams) was posted back on the first page of this thread by someone else; I found the second page (other trains) when I followed it:

http://joshinweb.jp/hobby/minirail1.html?ACK=TOKU

http://joshinweb.jp/hobby/minirail2.html?ACK=TOKU

Note, the "o" after the heading indicates that it works.  The "x" indicates some kind of failure (derailment or just cars binding against each other) and the triangle seems to indicate success (perhaps conditional success; the translations were a bit confusing).

My only personal experience is with Modemo's articulated Setagaya trams, which can negotiate 140mm without trouble (the page claims they can negotiate 103mm, although I've read elsewhere that as least some articulated trams have problems with 103mm curves).

[bill937ca]

Here's a new video showing the use of Tomix Attachable Ballast kit for P541-15 switches so they match up with Wide PC track sections.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Mq5dt_siQJw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Mq5dt_siQJw</a>

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10126691

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10126699

http://www.youtube.com/user/177140103#p/a/u/1/0vDUxzy_Law

[Barobutt]

Maybe I'm stupid but I just can't find anywhere the exact height of tomix track.  Does a side view diagram with dimensions exist anywhere?  How many mm to the top of the ballast? how many mm to the top of the rails?

I"m trying to purchase a good thickness of sintra for my town that will most closely match the exact height of tomix track, as well as something to lay under my atlas track to exactly bring it up to level with the tomix track since it has build-in roadbed.

Anyone have any numbers for me, or a diagram?

[bill937ca]

Maybe I'm stupid but I just can't find anywhere the exact height of tomix track.  Does a side view diagram with dimensions exist anywhere?  How many mm to the top of the ballast? how many mm to the top of the rails?

I"m trying to purchase a good thickness of sintra for my town that will most closely match the exact height of tomix track, as well as something to lay under my atlas track to exactly bring it up to level with the tomix track since it has build-in roadbed.

Anyone have any numbers for me, or a diagram?

It's Code 80 and there's more information here. Much more information on Japan Model Railways web site, but you will have to translate the page with Google Translate or similar.

[Barobutt]

No one who owns this tomix track could perhaps measure how thick the track is for me?  I'm surprised this info isn't anywhere online in english.  Pages and pages of info on how the track curves and the history of the company but not a single vertical measurement.  Anyone want to quick grab their calipers and help me out?

[keiman]

will see if I can find the vernier and a bit of track somewhere to measure for you.
Tomix Track:
from bottom of trackbed to top of rail  6.15mm
from bottom of trackbed to top of sleeper 4.00mm
top of rail to ballast 3.7mm
depth of sleeper 1.05mm
Kato Track
from bottom of trackbed to top of rail   7.22mm
from bottom of trackbed to top of sleeper 4.75mm
top of rail to ballast 2.52mm
depth of sleeper  0.71mm


reason for edit added measurements

[Barobutt]

The german guide I read translated that the bottom of the ballast to the top of rail-ballast is 6mm but I drew that, and with code 80 track, which I learned is 2mm tall, would make the track 8mm tall and it looked wayyyy too thick.  SO thinking this is just a mistranslation I drew the track at 18mm wide and 6mm tall including the rails and it looks better, although still a bit taller than it appears in pictures.



Is this diagram correct?  I don't want to go out and buy a bunch of material and find out I got the wrong thickness :(

EDIT
keiman thank you you're my hero!!  Thanks for the edit!  So if I make the base for my town 6mm thick it'll be perfect.