Train Otaku Misbehavior

[bill937ca]

In recent weeks frenzied tetsudo otaku have been getting out of hand in Japan.  I haven't seen discussion of this in the English language media yet, but there have been articles in the Japanese media. There have been incidents of photographers roaming onto the tracks and refusing to move even when requested by railway staff. The police have to be called to restore order. Anti-social railfan behavior is being attributed to the ease of timely information available on the internet and digital photography.  Between digital cameras, cellphone cameras and other devices just about anybody these days has a camera.


http://m.mippin.com/mip/prev/singlestory.jsp?&sid=108666929

Japanese language stories:

http://fnn.fujitv.co.jp/news/headlines/articles/CONN00172339.html

http://osaka.yomiuri.co.jp/news/20100223-OYO1T00481.htm?from=top

Searching for railway fan in Japanese in Google brings up 17 related articles under the Yomiuri article linked above.

http://news.google.com/news/story?um=1&hl=ja&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=%E9%89%84%E9%81%93%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%B3&ndsp=20&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dlbaMHM_LaQO_YMdQqDTT6apwVv2M&ei=2jGFS4OKLs6zlwfP1dDqAQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=4&ved=0CB8QqgIwAw

Mod note: Topic Split. Not directly related to OP.

[scott]

the obvious safety concerns to passengers and staff of running over so many otaku.

Never mind the slight inconvenience to the flattened geeks themselves.... 

[Shashinka]

In recent weeks frenzied tetsudo otaku have been getting out of hand in Japan.  I haven't seen discussion of this in the English language media yet, but there have been articles in the Japanese media. There have been incidents of photographers roaming onto the tracks and refusing to move even when requested by railway staff. The police have to be called to restore order. Anti-social railfan behavior is being attributed to the ease of timely information available on the internet and digital photography.  Between digital cameras, cellphone cameras and other devices just about anybody these days has a camera.


http://m.mippin.com/mip/prev/singlestory.jsp?&sid=108666929

Japanese language stories:

http://fnn.fujitv.co.jp/news/headlines/articles/CONN00172339.html

http://osaka.yomiuri.co.jp/news/20100223-OYO1T00481.htm?from=top

Searching for railway fan in Japanese in Google brings up 17 related articles under the Yomiuri article linked above.

http://news.google.com/news/story?um=1&hl=ja&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=%E9%89%84%E9%81%93%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%B3&ndsp=20&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dlbaMHM_LaQO_YMdQqDTT6apwVv2M&ei=2jGFS4OKLs6zlwfP1dDqAQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=4&ved=0CB8QqgIwAw

Unlike here in the states NS train crews see a railfan on their own property, they call NS police to arrest them as railway photography is now not only a crime, but a threat to homeland security.

Joking aside. I have to admit, I ran in to a group of railfans at Omiya back in March of 2008 and was amazed by the lack of any etiquette held by them. I was also amazed by the average age of the railfans resent being in their teens, with a few college age. Very few were my age or older. And most of them seem to have tossed out any traditional rules of society out the window. I saw photogs just shoving each other out of the way for a picture of EF66-11. I hadn't seen anything like that her in the states among fans.

[Mudkip Orange]

so you think I could make some money as a bodyguard for densha otaku?

Hey kids... watch out for Shinji, he's got a baka gaijin...

[scott]

You could probably make more money as a bodyguard for green-car passengers.

[Shashinka]

so you think I could make some money as a bodyguard for densha otaku?

Hey kids... watch out for Shinji, he's got a baka gaijin...

Shinji Araki, otaku, eva pilot, kid with daddy issues. Not the best choice to protect my 20# bag of cat food yet alone green car passengers, or tetsudo otaku, trackside.

[bill937ca]

Unlike here in the states NS train crews see a railfan on their own property, they call NS police to arrest them as railway photography is now not only a crime, but a threat to homeland security.

Joking aside. I have to admit, I ran in to a group of railfans at Omiya back in March of 2008 and was amazed by the lack of any etiquette held by them. I was also amazed by the average age of the railfans resent being in their teens, with a few college age. Very few were my age or older. And most of them seem to have tossed out any traditional rules of society out the window. I saw photogs just shoving each other out of the way for a picture of EF66-11. I hadn't seen anything like that her in the states among fans.

Just NS?  What about Amtrak, MBTA and others I can't think of right now?

The police were called in Osaka and apparently those railfans will be charged.  Not good in a land with no automatic bail.  They may get to rot for the full 23 days without being charged.

I've also noticed that many of the web-site collections of railway photos have a teen-aged "manager." This may also be why these sites can vanish into thin air overnight.  When the domain registration comes up for renewal, they don't have the means to renew it.  By comparison, many You Tube accounts are held by people in their 30s and 40s.

[Mudkip Orange]

so you think I could make some money as a bodyguard for densha otaku?

Hey kids... watch out for Shinji, he's got a baka gaijin...

Shinji Araki, otaku, eva pilot, kid with daddy issues. Not the best choice to protect my 20# bag of cat food yet alone green car passengers, or tetsudo otaku, trackside.

Well that's the point. Shinji = wormy kid who gets beat up. Shinji + baka gaijin = wormy kid who is now unapproachable.

[Shashinka]

Unlike here in the states NS train crews see a railfan on their own property, they call NS police to arrest them as railway photography is now not only a crime, but a threat to homeland security.

Joking aside. I have to admit, I ran in to a group of railfans at Omiya back in March of 2008 and was amazed by the lack of any etiquette held by them. I was also amazed by the average age of the railfans resent being in their teens, with a few college age. Very few were my age or older. And most of them seem to have tossed out any traditional rules of society out the window. I saw photogs just shoving each other out of the way for a picture of EF66-11. I hadn't seen anything like that her in the states among fans.

Just NS?  What about Amtrak, MBTA and others I can't think of right now?

The only issues I've ever had with Amtrak have been at Washington DC's Union Terminal, but along the corridor, I have yet to have any issues with them, nor had I any problems at Amtrak's Penn Station in Pittsburgh or Baltimore.

I don't shooting Boston so I know nothing of MBTA.

[Shashinka]

The police were called in Osaka and apparently those railfans will be charged.  Not good in a land with no automatic bail.  They may get to rot for the full 23 days without being charged.

I've also noticed that many of the web-site collections of railway photos have a teen-aged "manager." This may also be why these sites can vanish into thin air overnight.  When the domain registration comes up for renewal, they don't have the means to renew it.  By comparison, many You Tube accounts are held by people in their 30s and 40s.

That doesn't surprise me at all. I don't particularly like dealing with teen railfans in N. America, and I doubt dealing with them in Japan would be any better. Sadly, I leave in a month for a railfan trip to Osaka in a month, and hate to think about the railfan blow back as a result of a few bonehead kids.

[westfalen]

Unlike here in the states NS train crews see a railfan on their own property, they call NS police to arrest them as railway photography is now not only a crime, but a threat to homeland security.

Joking aside. I have to admit, I ran in to a group of railfans at Omiya back in March of 2008 and was amazed by the lack of any etiquette held by them. I was also amazed by the average age of the railfans resent being in their teens, with a few college age. Very few were my age or older. And most of them seem to have tossed out any traditional rules of society out the window. I saw photogs just shoving each other out of the way for a picture of EF66-11. I hadn't seen anything like that her in the states among fans.

Just NS?  What about Amtrak, MBTA and others I can't think of right now?

The only issues I've ever had with Amtrak have been at Washington DC's Union Terminal, but along the corridor, I have yet to have any issues with them, nor had I any problems at Amtrak's Penn Station in Pittsburgh or Baltimore.

I don't shooting Boston so I know nothing of MBTA.

A friend and I were escorted from the platform by Amtrak Police at Washington one afternoon in 2000, after almost two hours filming I got a shock when the switcher crew we had been filming all afternoon pulled their engine up beside me and said the cops were talking to my friend and would probably be coming to get me too. We saw no signs saying we shouldn't be where we were and were staying within the safety lines, but one of the cops pointed to a no trespassing sign across the yard that I almost needed binoculars to see, let alone read, so they took our details and walked us off the platform.

Here in Brisbane a lot of train crews report photographers because it usually means graffiti vandals taking pictures of their work. Being a railfan myself I usually know one when I see one and don't report them, unless they are trespassing.

I hope railfanning in Japan doesn't get like most western countries because of these idiots. Hopefully the law making an example of a few will knock some sense into the rest.

[Shashinka]

Yeah, the cops are pricks at Union in DC, same with Penn in NYC, but otherwise Amtrak doesn't bother ya along the NEC or along the freight lines.

[bill937ca]

JR bracing for chaos this weekend.


Train buffs causing headache / JR braces for scrum keen to catch glimpse of loved trains' last runs

The Yomiuri Shimbun

Hundreds of rail enthusiasts are expected to flock to JR Ueno Station in Tokyo on Friday to catch a glimpse of two iconic trains that will be making their final runs, giving East Japan Railway Co. a headache over how to ensure their safety.

The Hokuriku, a limited express with sleeping berths, nicknamed "Blue Train" due to its color, and the Noto, a night express, have run between Kanazawa Station and Ueno Station for more than 50 years.

"Tori-tetsu"--rail fans with a passion for taking photos of trains--have been making a pilgrimage to Ueno Station since mid-February to take snaps of the trains. Up to 200 train buffs have gathered on weekdays, and the figure reached 800 Saturday, the final weekend run before the service finishes.

But Friday is expected to see an even bigger number of tori-tetsu crowd the platform, which does not have safety barriers like the Shinkansen bullet train platforms.

When the Hokuriku pulled into the No. 13 platform of Ueno Station at 10:45 p.m. Saturday, hundreds of train fans, undaunted by the cold rainy weather were waiting with cameras in hand. The flashes of their cameras lit up the platform.

Security guards on the platform tried to retain a sense of order by yelling out, "Don't step forward!" and "Don't run!" However, their warnings fell on deaf ears as the avid fans ran up and down the narrow platform to photograph the train while it sat at the platform for about 15 minutes.

Some even leaned over the edge of the platform to take photos, despite warnings from the overwhelmed security guards.

There was more of the same when the Noto pulled into the platform after the Hokuriku left.

The number of tori-tetsu has been increasing in recent years.

When the Asakaze and the Sakura finished their services in 2005, about 1,000 fans gathered at the station. About 2,000 saw the Ginga make its last run in 2008, and about 3,000 were on hand when the Fuji and the Hayabusa retired in spring last year. These trains were all Blue Trains.

The overexuberance of train buffs has caused problems in the past. In February, trains in Osaka and Shiga prefectures were delayed after some people hopped down onto the tracks, apparently to take photos of trains, including one decked out with Japanese-style seats and tables.

When the 500 series Shinkansen bullet train finished its service between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka stations on the Tokaido-Sanyo Shinkansen lines on Feb. 28, about 1,500 fans gathered at JR Tokyo Station. The jostling for position caused a few tempers to fray. Shouts of "Don't push!" and "Watch out!" erupted on the platform.

JR East has deployed about 10 security guards since Feb. 27 to keep the crowds at Ueno Station under control, and plans to have 40 staff and security guards on hand Friday night.

Catching a glimpse of the Hokuriku, which started operating in 1950, and the Noto, which started in 1959 and returned after a brief suspension, is enough to send a wave of nostalgia over many train fans. As such, a big turnout is expected Friday, although just how big is anyone's guess.

"We can't predict how many people will turn up," a JR East official said.

Keigo Kato, 18, a third-year high school student from Sagamihara, Kanagawa Prefecture, who visited Ueno Station on Saturday night, hopes that Friday evening will not descend into chaos.

"Rail fans can judge instantly by looking at a photo whether the photographer was courteous and didn't encroach into a dangerous area," Kato said. "I hope the train buffs will take photos while being considerate of others, thinking 'We all can enjoy watching trains' rather than only selfishly worrying about whether they can get a good shot."
(Mar. 9, 2010)

[bikkuri bahn]

'We all can enjoy watching trains' rather than only selfishly worrying about whether they can get a good shot."

Fact is, you cannot get a good shot at these circuses (I know, I've been to a few- was bemused enough to give up taking pictures of trains and started photographing the rabid fans).  The smart fans either take the pix several weeks or months before the end- like the rail magazines do, or if you really need to get a shot of the last train, set up a shot at an intermediate station or lineside (safely).   You can tell a good number of the foamers are there more for the novelty of the event rather than getting a quality shot- they usually tote cheapie compact cameras or cellphone cameras (yuck!).

The media here has been all over this, with coverage almost every day on TV news programs, especially this week with the lead up to the big timetable change Mar. 13.  Usually one of the TV announcers/commentators is a fan, so the tone is quite balanced, though stern towards some of the nutters who ruin things for others or compromise safety.

[Mudkip Orange]

Do the Noto and Hokuriku currently use the Hokuetsu Express Hokuhoku line?

I ask because Wikipedia says they both use the "Shinetsu Main Line and the Hokuriku Main Line," but the Shinetsu Main Line was severed in 1997 between Kuruizawa and Yokokawa with the opening of the Nagano Shinkansen. Hokuetsu Express (which also opened the same year) seems like the most legit alternate route.

[Shashinka]

'We all can enjoy watching trains' rather than only selfishly worrying about whether they can get a good shot."

Fact is, you cannot get a good shot at these circuses (I know, I've been to a few- was bemused enough to give up taking pictures of trains and started photographing the rabid fans).  The smart fans either take the pix several weeks or months before the end- like the rail magazines do, or if you really need to get a shot of the last train, set up a shot at an intermediate station or lineside (safely).   You can tell a good number of the foamers are there more for the novelty of the event rather than getting a quality shot- they usually tote cheapie compact cameras or cellphone cameras (yuck!).

The media here has been all over this, with coverage almost every day on TV news programs, especially this week with the lead up to the big timetable change Mar. 13.  Usually one of the TV announcers/commentators is a fan, so the tone is quite balanced, though stern towards some of the nutters who ruin things for others or compromise safety.

I am really amazed by the number of foamers these days and the age. Ten years ago, I would never see anyone under the age of forty track-side. Now it seems the age has dropped. And in Japan I noticed that the railfan danger warning signs always portray what looks like a teen with a camera. For myself, I am glad I will be looking a bit more like the pro rather than the average rabid fanboy.

[bikkuri bahn]

Ten years ago, I would never see anyone under the age of forty track-side. Now it seems the age has dropped. And in Japan I noticed that the railfan danger warning signs always portray what looks like a teen with a camera.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case, and it's sad b/c otherwise it's good to see new blood in the hobby and I'm a supporter of young people in general as I work with them everyday.  But seeing recent coverage of these events, it's usually the teens and even younger fans hanging over platforms and blocking sightlines.  One incident that was broadcast on national TV this Sunday was at Omiya, where young fans were shouting at a uniformed platform staff worker doing his job to get out of the way, telling him he was "KY", short for "kuuki yomenai", or in English, "you're clueless".   Amazingly, the worker kneeled.  Now, if he had been an old Kokutetsu (JNR) veteran, he probably would have chewed out those fans, or even called railway police to eject them.

[bikkuri bahn]

Do the Noto and Hokuriku currently use the Hokuetsu Express Hokuhoku line?

No, they run on the Joetsu Line to Nagaoka, where they reverse, and run on the Shinetsu Line along the Sea of Japan to Naoetsu, then continuing on the Hokuriku Main Line towards Toyama and Kanazawa.

[Shashinka]

Ten years ago, I would never see anyone under the age of forty track-side. Now it seems the age has dropped. And in Japan I noticed that the railfan danger warning signs always portray what looks like a teen with a camera.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case, and it's sad b/c otherwise it's good to see new blood in the hobby and I'm a supporter of young people in general as I work with them everyday.  But seeing recent coverage of these events, it's usually the teens and even younger fans hanging over platforms and blocking sightlines.  One incident that was broadcast on national TV this Sunday was at Omiya, where young fans were shouting at a uniformed platform staff worker doing his job to get out of the way, telling him he was "KY", short for "kuuki yomenai", or in English, "you're clueless".   Amazingly, the worker kneeled.  Now, if he had been an old Kokutetsu (JNR) veteran, he probably would have chewed out those fans, or even called railway police to eject them.

It is almost baffling that anyone would behave that way even in modern Japanese society, yet along the railfan geeks.

[bikkuri bahn]

It is almost baffling that anyone would behave that way even in modern Japanese society, yet along the railfan geeks.

Crowds tend to take on a life of their own, and in this case intensified by ferroequinological fervor...

[Claude_Dreyfus]

In the UK, so-called 'Anti-terror' legislation mean that some members of the station staff and police (in particular British Transport Police (BTP)) can get also stasi-like when it comes to railway photography, especially at the major stations.

A point that is often debated in the UK railway fraternity, however here it is not against the law for someone to photograph a train; nor as I was informed by an officious station-staff member a few years ago, against railway bye-laws.

The issue became so contenious a little while ago that it was even raised by an MP in our Parliament!

That said, there have always been the idiots. The laws of trespass are odd in the UK, I believe you can only be prosecuted for trespass on defence or railway property...anything else is classified as obstruction. The least you can expect is a £200.00 fine...the worst is 750v DC coursing through your veins which, invariably, proves fatal. Despite all this, the number of people you see, especially during railtours and the like, that go wandering about over tracks is quite amazing.

With photographers, I have encountered some astonishing behaviour...passengers being yelled at by trainspotters because they have wandered into their photo-shots is not unknown.

[Shashinka]

In the states a lot of that is is more out of fear of litigation on behalf of the trespasser than it is out of fear of terrorism. Terrorism is a good wrapper to use for anyone trespassing on property. In this case, railfans within the RoW or on a platform of a station without a ticket.

For the most part, I seldom have had a person walk in to my shot, though I will admit if they do, I rework the comp to include said such intrusion. Usually when the person here the camera they tend to quickly realize that they walked in to a sight line and quickly leave when they realize they too are being photographed.

[westfalen]

Ten years ago, I would never see anyone under the age of forty track-side. Now it seems the age has dropped. And in Japan I noticed that the railfan danger warning signs always portray what looks like a teen with a camera.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case, and it's sad b/c otherwise it's good to see new blood in the hobby and I'm a supporter of young people in general as I work with them everyday.  But seeing recent coverage of these events, it's usually the teens and even younger fans hanging over platforms and blocking sightlines.  One incident that was broadcast on national TV this Sunday was at Omiya, where young fans were shouting at a uniformed platform staff worker doing his job to get out of the way, telling him he was "KY", short for "kuuki yomenai", or in English, "you're clueless".   Amazingly, the worker kneeled.  Now, if he had been an old Kokutetsu (JNR) veteran, he probably would have chewed out those fans, or even called railway police to eject them.

Your last point rings true, railway staff these days are taught to be nice to everyone no matter what they are doing, if an old hand tries to actually do something about a situation he is put through the wringer by management who haven't got a clue how the railway runs and risks losing his job because they are scared out of their wits over possible litigation. They usually find it easier to totally ban something that to work out a solution.

At least these Japanese teenagers are not looking to their counterparts in most other countries for role models and covering the trains with graffiti or throwing rocks at passing trains and placing junk on the track.

[bill937ca]

Railfans on the main stream media again. This time a six minute video from FNN tv including the last Series 113 newspaper train. Look how thick the crowds are!!!!!

http://www.fnn-news.com/news/headlines/articles/CONN00173437.html

[Bernard]

What I like about the video Bill posted is that it shows the degree of popularity of rail fanning in Japan. There are a lot of posts on N. American train forums what the next train Kato should produce. I don't get the feeling that these people realize that to Kato, the N. American prototypes are secondary to the Japanese trains. The video show exactly where Kato's main market is, in my opinion.

Railfans on the main stream media again. This time a six minute video from FNN tv including the last Series 113 newspaper train. Look how thick the crowds are!!!!!

http://www.fnn-news.com/news/headlines/articles/CONN00173437.html

[disturbman]

And to be sure of that, just look at Kato schedule. They will soon release a 2009 version of the Noto Overnight express. Train which had its last run today if I'm not mistaking.

[Toni Babelony]

Railfans on the main stream media again. This time a six minute video from FNN tv including the last Series 113 newspaper train. Look how thick the crowds are!!!!!

http://www.fnn-news.com/news/headlines/articles/CONN00173437.html

Thanks for the link. It doesn't put the railfans in such a bad position as most articles in this thread do. It explains more the phenomenom itself, with all funny trends surrounding it and the problems that occur with the more stupid members of the community.

[Mudkip Orange]

Do the Noto and Hokuriku currently use the Hokuetsu Express Hokuhoku line?

No, they run on the Joetsu Line to Nagaoka, where they reverse, and run on the Shinetsu Line along the Sea of Japan to Naoetsu, then continuing on the Hokuriku Main Line towards Toyama and Kanazawa.

Wow, what an incredibly circuitous route. Not *entirely* surprised this one's going the way of the dodo.

[bikkuri bahn]

Railfans on the main stream media again. This time a six minute video from FNN tv including the last Series 113 newspaper train. Look how thick the crowds are!!!!!

http://www.fnn-news.com/news/headlines/articles/CONN00173437.html

Thanks for the link. It doesn't put the railfans in such a bad position as most articles in this thread do. It explains more the phenomenom itself, with all funny trends surrounding it and the problems that occur with the more stupid members of the community.

Yes, in general media reports have been quite balanced, and while noting the bad behavior of a minority of fans, have not resorted to the shrill knee jerk reportage style of say, a British tabloid.  On a morning news program today there was a 10 minute feature on a groups of railfans that had gathered in Kanazawa to take simultaneous pictures of the Noto and Hokuriku trains, so as to string them together to make a pan shot of a complete train consist.  It was a segment free of any toffish condescension or schoolboy ridicule of "trainspotting", just reportage of a group of people pursuing their hobby peaceably and safely.  It helps that quite a few media reporters, commentators, and editors are railfans themselves, and the railway system is viewed with pride by the general population, so admiration or love of trains is not seen as abnormal.  In addition, a degree of obsession with a subject or eccentricity is tolerated in Japanese society, as long as it doesn't disrupt safety or harmony.

[marknewton]

Yes, in general media reports have been quite balanced, and while noting the bad behavior of a minority of fans, have not resorted to the shrill knee jerk reportage style of say, a British tabloid...It helps that quite a few media reporters, commentators, and editors are railfans themselves...

It also helps that the Japanese media are not owned by Rupert Murdoch, or shrill knee-jerk reportage is exactly what you'd get.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Shashinka]

Yes, in general media reports have been quite balanced, and while noting the bad behavior of a minority of fans, have not resorted to the shrill knee jerk reportage style of say, a British tabloid...It helps that quite a few media reporters, commentators, and editors are railfans themselves...

It also helps that the Japanese media are not owned by Rupert Murdoch, or shrill knee-jerk reportage is exactly what you'd get.

Cheers,

Mark.

Or by the extreme left anti--Semitic ramblings of Ted Turner either.

[marknewton]

We don't hear from Turner or CNN here in Australia, so I have no opinion of him.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Mudkip Orange]

Ted Turner: protect the environment or I will f***ing kill you!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YdaxV1O5GBA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/YdaxV1O5GBA</a>