Non-self-centering Momentary Switches?

[scott]

A while back I bought a bunch of momentary toggle switches, so that I could make line-map/control panels where the toggle would indicate the turnout's location and position. (Despite the fact that I've never wired anything before...) But when the switches arrived, I realized that they return to center rather than staying at one side or the other (as our Kato switch controllers do).

Is there such a thing as a non-centering momentary toggle, and if so, how do I find them?

[CaptOblivious]

I went hunting for such a beast once and returned empty handed :( I would very much like to know too!

[cteno4]

I have seen these on old equipment, but never in the switch catalogs at all, so its a real specialty thing!

if you are firing the kato turnouts i would suggest you use cheap spdt micro switches and the bcd circuit to do your control panel. it will give you led indicators if you want along with yard ladders and even memory if you want. also it is a capacitance discharge so its very nice on your turnouts. momentary switches like these can be rough on them if you dont just tap them with power. costs a few bucks per turn out to do the circuits, but pretty easy and cheaper than burning a turnout out and having to try to rip it out to replace it (that can be a mess in some places!).

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,1260.0.html

cheers

jeff

[scott]

Thanks--I had forgotten about that thread (sorry about that!).  Do you still have his address for getting copies of the diagram?

[quinntopia]

Scott,

I use the method Jeff mentions.  I don't want to put his address in a post, but if you PM me I'll send it to you, or you can reach him on the Kato Unitrack Group on Yahoo.  Ray / George is the man you want....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KatoUnitrack/message/6226

FYI ---- here's my new control panel...replacing 7 of Big Blue Kato Switches!  What an improvement! :-)

[Mudkip Orange]

You wanna send your blue Kato switches this way?

[scott]

Jerry--that looks really nice. Are the turnout settings indicated by light color? I'm wondering if there's some way to use arrows or something that will make it really clear to a 7-year old (and his slower-on-the-uptake father....).

I'll contact the designer and see what he sends--I've been meaning to do this for a while.

[CaptOblivious]

Jerry--that looks really nice. Are the turnout settings indicated by light color? I'm wondering if there's some way to use arrows or something that will make it really clear to a 7-year old (and his slower-on-the-uptake father....).

I'll contact the designer and see what he sends--I've been meaning to do this for a while.

You could make little silhouettes to place over the LED lens in the shape of an arrow :D

[cteno4]

the BCD circuit lets you use two leds where one lights up to indicated that the point is switched that way. this way you put two lights at each turnout point on the diverging tracks on your diagram and the direction is indicated with the lighted track as well as the switch position. i think you can also do push button momentariness in place of the dpdt, but its different wiring.

the other option is to use bi colored leds so it shows red/green.

for your kid design i would think having the 2 leds would be the best option to make it clear which track the train was going to go onto.

cheers

jeff

[scott]

Yup--I'm glad to hear that's an option. I've e-mailed off for the diagram....

[quinntopia]

Mudkip Orange :

You wanna send your blue Kato switches this way?

Well, I've already donated them to a good cause...turns out one of my daughters little friends told her dad about my layout, so now he's got the bug!  Anyway...I donated the blue switches to him....I'm working on converting more folks in my neighborhood to the N scale religion you could say (however, whether they go with the Japanese, American, or European denominations is up to them, or become a 'universalist' like me....   )

Scott

Jerry--that looks really nice. Are the turnout settings indicated by light color? I'm wondering if there's some way to use arrows or something that will make it really clear to a 7-year old (and his slower-on-the-uptake father....).

Yes, 'green' is 'straight' through for the main, while 'red' is for diverging.  But as Jeff mentions, totally possible to wire up two LED's - one on each 'leg' - to indicate direction.  Not sure how good you are with electrical schematics, but Ray (the author) is good at support if you have any questions, but happy to help here too if you need any suggestions.

[scott]

Thanks--I'm pretty much clueless, so I'm sure I'll have questions...

[scott]

OK, Ray sent me the diagram, and it looks like I have a lot of learning to do.

In the meantime--here's a half-baked idea: Anybody know if you could use a 5-position rotary switch to operate Kato turnouts? If positions 2 and 4 were "on" but you just passed by them on the way to 1 or 5, would that send power for long enough to complete the direction change? I know you'd have to be very careful not to leave the switch on 2 or 4 to avoid burning out the turnout motor.

Not that I know how to do this, but maybe positions 1 and 5 could send the power to LEDs that both show turnout direction and assure you that the switch is position correctly.

[CaptOblivious]

Believe it or not, for just one turnout, I don't think the rotary switch will end ujp any less complex than Ray's circuit.

[cteno4]

Scott

a slip and leaving the rotary switch in position to keep the circuit live to the turnout could easily poof your turnout coils. figuring how much fun it would be to pull out a point in the middle of your layout for repair you can see why treating them nicely might be good.

the bcd circuit is pretty easy to do the simple one with just wiring the components onto a simple screw terminal strip. once you figure it out then its simple cloning.

I have talked to ray about the idea of a simple little pc board to make the circuit easier to assemble, but he actually thinks that may make it harder, especially if you want to do any modifications to the circuits. im thinking maybe a happy medium of just using a simple breadboard pc board (its just pc board with a grid of holes and you poke your wires through them and then solder them together on the other side, not to leads on the circuit board)

anyhow IMHO if you are going to do anything past the big blues i think the bcd gives you all the versatility of doing lights, different switch alternatives, cascades, etc as well as giving you the perfect discharge to flip the switch well and safe.

cheers

jeff

[scott]

Ah, well, another half-baked idea collapses. 

I have to admit, electronics is one of the many areas requiring practical skills that I am totally ignorant of. The most complex circuit I've ever made was a battery, two wires, a light bulb, and some tape. :-/   So I'll probably try to do the BCD circuit eventually, but I'll need to back up a step (or more...) to the basics first.

Are there photographs of a completed circuit out there, or are they too spread out to be photographable.

[cteno4]

Scott,

this looks hard, but once you get the hang of it its not so bad and once you do it and it works you  will feel really good!

i think ray may have some photos. in the next month when i get a second ill see if i can dig up the parts i had for my test one and try and work on a little set of pictures to walk folks thru it. i want to play with some simple ways of wiring it up. using a simple terminal strip (the strip with a line of screw downs on it) works well as ray points out and only requires you insert the leads to the components into the screw terminals and screw it down. just have to make sure any of the exposed wire leads dont get short circuited.

sorry im just still crazy busy with travel, work, personal life, and jrm stuff the next few weeks.

cheers

jeff

[scott]

Thanks, Jeff--I appreciate the help, but don't worry about this--I didn't expect anybody to add to their stress level. :-)

[quinntopia]

Scott, personal message me, or get my email address from my blog, and I can help you out with some photos.  My circuit's a bit different than the one in the instructions as I use two LED's but its easy to cut down to one.

[scott]

Thanks, Jerry--I'd actually prefer having two separate LEDs, to graphically indicate direction, so that works out  well.