Sankei Paper Kits

[cteno4]

Its a Woody Joe 1/150 5 story pagoda wooden model at Horyuji Temple. you may have seen his larger castle models in the recent hobby show pictures. i think they are only out for a short period as i have not seen these two

very nice. not too hard to assemble if you want to have just the wooden model. would be a bit more work to try an paint up well. they are meant to be very clean wooden display models, not necessarily layout models, in addition to the pagoda i have a Horyuji Kondou inner temple building as well (similar to the larger tomytec one) that i might part with as well. looked like fun models to maybe put out in the living room, but not sure when i will get to them so rather some one have fun with them...

[scott]

Now this one is funny:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10117293

[cteno4]

LOL that is a hoot! wonder what sparked that production?

scott, looks like you have been converted to a sankei lurker!

jeff

[rankodd]

Now this one is funny:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10117293

- This product is non-scale hotel.
HO, N, Z Scale and enjoy both.
- Size: 48 × 48 × 20mm

It's a Hotel! Honest! :)
How confused does a machine translator have to get to confuse Hotel and Flying Saucer. (All bets are off if the translator is hosted in Las Vegas, though...)

[scott]

scott, looks like you have been converted to a sankei lurker!

It seems like they always have something new popping up on the HS site... 

[cteno4]

Actually i think these guys are pretty smart. once you get a building system worked out for layering, then its pretty straight forward to lay these plans out in CAD and do very rapid prototyping cutting them out on the laser cutter, so their development cost are very low and revision turn around really rapid. this means someone could be spitting a new design out like once a week (which it seems like they are doing)

then production is also dirt simple as you just need a few laser cutters cranking these out. i bet you could buy a few of them for the cost of just one buildings die set if done in plastic! plus you can just make a small run really easily to test to see if it sells. if its a big hit then just job out a larger run or buy more cutters. Materials are dirt cheap in bulk im sure for good high density chip board they use.

packaging is dirt simple as well just using acetate pockets that they just heat seal a hang flap in the top and then the pieces pocket below with product picture folded over them (to protect the bottom edge/corners of the parts some as well!) with the barcode on the back and then the adhesive flap to seal it up on the bottom.

really is a low cost production system that lets you do design new product fast and cheap and do low runs at relatively low costs compared to doing plastic models!

Plus they hit the papercraft/origami spot with the japanese market as well.

always figured this would be the way to do T gauge structures really fast as they would require even less layering to get enough detail to look interesting.

cheers

jeff

[marknewton]

LOL that is a hoot! wonder what sparked that production?

Someone at Sankei is a fan of George Adamski? 

Mark.

[cteno4]

LOL that is a hoot! wonder what sparked that production?

Someone at Sankei is a fan of George Adamski? 

Mark.

OMG mark you just brought back a lot of neurons from the 70s when i had a short spell of interest in UFOs when i was a kid! project blue book flash backs happening...

cheers

jeff

[Toni Babelony]

"Someone from ancient times influenced Sankei. Someone from out of this world" - E. von Däniken

[cteno4]

no no no chariots of the gods!!! aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh

jeff

[disturbman]

ok who is going to step up and try this one?!

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10092427

Well, that doesn't seem harder to tackle than their JR Nara Station model. But, for the price, I won't try one of these lightly.

[marknewton]

OMG mark you just brought back a lot of neurons from the 70s when i had a short spell of interest in UFOs when i was a kid! project blue book flash backs happening...

Hahaha!  Jeff, I went through that exact same phase, at the exact same time! Woowoo!

Cheers,

Mark.

[clem24]

Anyone else pre-order Mei and Satsuki's house? Now I just need to find some miniature Totoro's for a neat little scene..! It's one expensive kit bit I am sure it'll be worth it. Plus I'd also think a nice part of that is going towards paying the licensing fees.

[Martijn Meerts]

Anyone else pre-order Mei and Satsuki's house? Now I just need to find some miniature Totoro's for a neat little scene..! It's one expensive kit bit I am sure it'll be worth it. Plus I'd also think a nice part of that is going towards paying the licensing fees.

pre-ordered it the very day they put it up for pre-ordering =)

[cteno4]

Just occurred to me, I wonder when Sankei will get the idea to make modular walls so folks can kitbash their own structures. easier to cut up than plastic buildings are! they could offer a very wide selection though as they have not production set up costs or minimum run numbers and can experiment to see what sells. also they can quickly develop all the templates from their current models in a snap! distribution is the nightmare here with a wide selection of parts though, not sure if distributors or especially dealers will want to carry a huge selection of these. but they could put more parts in a single card so you could easily cut them out to what you need as well to cut down on the variety needed to be supplied.

cheers

jeff

[WuZhuiQiu]

Partially thanks to this thread, I've ordered some HO-scale Sankei building kits. However, I'm already thinking about how to modify them, by using a textured material for thatch, and a moulded (or scratchbuilt-and-cast) material for tiles.

Any ideas about how to model in-scale thatch?

Also, there used to be a small Japanese manufacturer of scale sheets of traditional-style tile roofing (hongawarabuki, as opposed to Edo-era sangawarabuki), but I think that he has stopped selling - is anybody here aware of another source? I could try cutting plastic tubing and casting my own in resin, but...
 
Finally, what's the consensus here on varnishing paper or card model buildings?

Thanks!

[ShinCanadaSen]

Has anyone built their Mei and Satsuki's house yet? It doesn't look too complicated, but I dare not take it out with my son around (he's 3 and loves to scrunch up paper!!!!)

[marknewton]

there used to be a small Japanese manufacturer of scale sheets of traditional-style tile roofing (hongawarabuki, as opposed to Edo-era sangawarabuki), but I think that he has stopped selling - is anybody here aware of another source? I could try cutting plastic tubing and casting my own in resin, but...

Are these the tile sheets you mean?

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10138125

I've got some on order, so I can't comment yet on how effective they are.

Cheers,

Mark.

[cteno4]

man, wish they would do those in n scale. the roof ridge is the really nasty part! nice sets in ho!

cheers

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Has anyone built their Mei and Satsuki's house yet? It doesn't look too complicated, but I dare not take it out with my son around (he's 3 and loves to scrunch up paper!!!!)

I've been sorely tempted to put mine together, but I really need to take measurements of every single part and make a digital 3d model of it for future use/reference :)

[marknewton]

Any ideas about how to model in-scale thatch?

I've never considered doing it, but I know of some blokes who have, very effectively!

http://www.elmetimages.co.uk/photo_7299055.html

Many of the buildings on the Pendon layout have thatched roofs that look superb, so whatever method is described in this book is probably worth learning.

Finally, what's the consensus here on varnishing paper or card model buildings?

I don't think there is one. If you live somewhere humid, varnishing/lacquering single-layer card models definitely helps to prevent warping. But I doubt it will be necessary with the Sankei kits, as they are made from a material that is more like very fine chipboard, and they are made up of a a number of laminations.

Cheers,

Mark.

[scott]

man, wish they would do those in n scale. the roof ridge is the really nasty part!

Seriously--I've been puzzling over how to scratch-build a ridged, tiled roof, and so far have gotten nowhere.

It looks like Green Max sells section of roof tiles, but without the ridge.

[cteno4]

man, wish they would do those in n scale. the roof ridge is the really nasty part!

Seriously--I've been puzzling over how to scratch-build a ridged, tiled roof, and so far have gotten nowhere.

It looks like Green Max sells section of roof tiles, but without the ridge.

i got stuck on this as well with that one tomytec that was missing a small section of roof. i tried carving up some green max tile strips to try and make a ridge but that did not work. even thought of trying to use wire insulation bits or bits of styrene tubing to make ridge tiles but that would not be as uniform as the rest an laying n scale tiles is a bit of carving angels on the heads of pins, but i have been know to do that... ;-p

cheers

jeff

[cteno4]

IMPORTANT TIP!!

with sankai kits make sure to write in light pencil on the back sides of pieces the number of the pieces. many of the wall sections they use to layer their walls up to make them thicker and create corner dado joints are almost the same size and easy to mix up once you cut them out of their piece. also good to pre assemble as much as possible w/o glue to make sure you have the right formation, then just do some light pencil marks again to remind you of the orientations when glueing. first one i did (the little police station, pretty simple) i just winged it and found a few times i flipped a piece as i glued it and did not realize it until pressed into place! no insert tab A into slot B or nice little dimples to get your orientations!

I also learned to scan the instructions and blow them up as they are tiny and minimal so hard to look at quick and you do need to do some thinking while looking at them... would be good if they just posted the pdfs of the instructions on their site! btw rick this is a great use for the ipad, just dont superglue a part to the ipad...

cheers

jeff

[clem24]

I also learned to scan the instructions and blow them up as they are tiny and minimal so hard to look at quick and you do need to do some thinking while looking at them...

Nah that's just old age... Even I have noticed huge loss in dexterity with my fingers and end up fumbling and dropping many, many tiny parts.

[cteno4]

I also learned to scan the instructions and blow them up as they are tiny and minimal so hard to look at quick and you do need to do some thinking while looking at them...

Nah that's just old age... Even I have noticed huge loss in dexterity with my fingers and end up fumbling and dropping many, many tiny parts.

no the dexterity is still there for me, eyes gone a little bit, but glasses and magnifying lamp more than make up for that on the fine work if needed. its the sankei directions, on the police station the whole instruction sheet was 0.75" x 1.5", no kidding! larger structures are a bit better at like 4" x 10", but still small for something that you do need to look at more than the usual plastic model kit as part orientation is not marked or no tabs or dimples, or ridges to lock parts in place! wall ends usually need to be aligned by like 1mm offsets to create the dado joints for the wall corners so you do need to beware and thinking of these while assembling/gluing!

cheers

jeff

[marknewton]

Some useful tips there, thanks for sharing them Jeff.

On the subject of ridge tiles, I saw an interesting thread on another forum. The bloke there scratchbuilt his this way:

"So they are home made with plasticard rods and strips. First method is to take a 2.5 or 3 mm rod and remove half with a file (I haven't found half round rods in my favorite shops) Second method is to take a 2.5 or 3 mm tube and slice it in two parts using a good scalpel. Small strips are bent to shape then glued at regular intervals."





Fiddly, I agree, but very effective looking.

Cheers,

Mark.

[WuZhuiQiu]

@marknewton: Thanks for the links!

The HO tile sheet looks a bit like hongawarabuki in the photograph, although the drawing implies that it  may be sangawarabuki instead.

Sangawarabuki:
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10138126a/20/1

The older design of tile roof (hongawarabuki) entailed separate convex and concave tiles (covertiles and pantiles), while the newer design (sangawarabuki) uses tiles that each incorporate both convex and concave portions.

Once your order arrives, could you please let us know which type of tile is represented?

Yes, that thatched roofing looks very effective, although I fear that it may involve the use of the legendary "plumber's felt" that used to be available in the UK, but not in North America.

[cteno4]

Mark,

nice! thanks! close to what i have on the roof i was trying to patch. problem is i would probably need to do all the ridges the same then!

i opted to just tear a hole in the roof, put in some framing and am working on having it under repair!

cheers

jeff

[marknewton]

WuZhuiQiu, I'll let you know as soon as the package arrives. I think you're right about the Pendon thatched roofs, I now recall seeing mention somewhere that they were made using plumber's hemp. I've actually used this material to make clumps of long grass. It's still available here in Australia if that's of any use to you. Makes me wonder whether you could substitute the sort of stuff that is sold as long grass by Woodland Scenics and the like?

Cheers,

Mark.

[marknewton]

i opted to just tear a hole in the roof, put in some framing and am working on having it under repair!

Clever - I like your style! 

Cheers,

Mark.

[WuZhuiQiu]

I checked my old e-mail messages, and here is some information about the product that I had been looking for:

*日本瓦 **KJ-0269*
   200×250ミリ
   1/50　1枚入
   \1,575 (税込)

Unfortunately, Ayano at Hiruma Model Craft ( http://hiruma-modelcraft.com [?]) had confirmed in 2006 that it was already out of production...

It has been used in models such as these:

http://www.oshiromodelterrain.co.uk/jp/japanese.html

[marknewton]

Some nice modelling there. The HO tiles represent sangawarabuki, and they're rather nice mouldings. Once I finish mucking around with my Enoden car kitbash, I'll try them out on a Sankei structure.

Cheers,

Mark.

[WuZhuiQiu]

Some nice modelling there.

Yes, it is - I'm going to be ordering some as scenery for a 4th Kawanakajima game.

The HO tiles represent sangawarabuki, and they're rather nice mouldings. Once I finish mucking around with my Enoden car kitbash, I'll try them out on a Sankei structure.

Cheers,

Mark.

Thanks for that detail! I suppose that I may have to scratch-build, then.

[clem24]

Wowzers!!! Arrggggh they're killing me!!

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10143817

[rankodd]

Wowzers!!! Arrggggh they're killing me!!

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10143817

That's a nice looking kit, but a little too European for my layout.

Edit: ACK! Just noticed the price! $50+ for a 9cmx9cmx7.2cm kit. 

[bikkuri bahn]

Wowzers!!! Arrggggh they're killing me!!

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10143817

That's a nice looking kit, but a little too European for my layout.

Edit: ACK! Just noticed the price! $50+ for a 9cmx9cmx7.2cm kit. 

That's because it's a model of the bakery seen in the Miyazaki Hayao Movie "Kiki's Delivery Service", which has a pseudo-European setting.  Good movie, by the way, with a nice scene of a train hauled by a cab unit in the EE or EMD style.

[keitaro]

bit of trivia but that kiki's building can be found in tasmania as can alot of ghibli stuff in australia.

i bought some of these kits can't wait to get my hands on one.

[rankodd]

Wowzers!!! Arrggggh they're killing me!!

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10143817

That's a nice looking kit, but a little too European for my layout.

Edit: ACK! Just noticed the price! $50+ for a 9cmx9cmx7.2cm kit. 

That's because it's a model of the bakery seen in the Miyazaki Hayao Movie "Kiki's Delivery Service", which has a pseudo-European setting.  Good movie, by the way, with a nice scene of a train hauled by a cab unit in the EE or EMD style.

Yeah - I loved that film. I was tempted to get it just because it was Kiki's bakery, but at that price I'll be passing on it twice. Gotta wonder what the license fees were on that - it's at least twice the price of their other N-Scale kits. The other Miyazaki house (From Totoro) is 4300+ yen as well. Ouch!

[clem24]

To be fair, given the complexity of these kits compared to their normal kits, I don't think the price is completely out of line. It's probably Y500 - Y1,000 overpriced but like you say, it has to cover the cost of licensing. Anyway I am very very very very tempted by this. I wonder where I can find a mini Kiki and Jiji...

[rankodd]

To be fair, given the complexity of these kits compared to their normal kits, I don't think the price is completely out of line. It's probably Y500 - Y1,000 overpriced but like you say, it has to cover the cost of licensing. Anyway I am very very very very tempted by this. I wonder where I can find a mini Kiki and Jiji...

To be fair, an N-scale Jiji would have to be around 2mm long. :)

OTOH, I'd love to be able to get N-scale anime figures. Closest thing available are the Fujimoto Maid Girls (With Nekomimi! http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10090758), but it's not the same. There were some To Heart figures a while back, but they're utterly unavailable now.

[Kumo]

To be fair, an N-scale Jiji would have to be around 2mm long. :)

After seeing cranes (bird not construction things lol), chairs and all the pictures from Kamiyacho, I feel like anything is possible! :-)

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I have been seriously considering soem of these for my small terminus layout. My only reservation is how they will cope in the wide ranging temperature of my shed. It is dry in there, but gets cold in the winter, and rather hot in the summer.

That said, I could always make them removable...

[keitaro]

just put this http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10134821 and http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10111783 these together no pics tonight can't be bothered.

will post tommorow though if i have time

i know the temple is 1/220 for z scale but i needed it to be small it's actually still pretty good next to some people i have so not too fussed

[keitaro]

pics

one thing i'd like to mention is once you glue a piece make sure you're doing it right u will see why in the pic below

[Dani]

Hello,

But reading "paper kit" scares a little bit... seems with much less durability than a plastic one...

What is your impression? How long will these kits last? Same than plastic ones? Do you spray them with a varnish or similar when finished?

Thanks,

Dani.

[cteno4]

Dani,

the Sankei kits are not "paper" but a high density chipboard that is laser cut.  this stuff is pretty stiff to begin with and then the sankei (and many of the higher quality laser cut kits) design is to layer 2-4 layers of this chipboard for each wall. this layering gives you added details around openings (doors, windows) with some relief and also color contrasts. this significantly stiffens them up a lot. laminating layers does a lot to help stop warping and give you stiffening w/o making a super thick wall.

if your train environment goes through large cycles of humidity you might get some warping. this is always up for some debate. some feel they never see warping in their chipboard structures, some think they see a lot.

in any case you can try to avoid this by stiffening the interior of these buildings more using some sheet styrene and strips of either styrene or bass wood you can get at the hobby shop. running some strips along the walls at a couple of spots can stiffen things a lot. some folks cut out a chunk of sheet styrene just a tad smaller than the wall and cut out the opening holes a bit larger and glue this to the back of the holes. this can entail a bit of work though, but its nothing that has to be super exact, but you then need to start to think about if white is ok inside your building or not and if it needs to be painted before installation. you probably dont want to paint chipboard as you are asking it to warp and potentially swell some. best to use markers if you ever need to do some color touch up here or there.

even styrene warps with time. i frequently have to bend tomytec bases and walls straight before assembly as they have warped (probably from temperature i would guess or something not quite right with injection moulding process).

some do hit their paper kits with light coats of dull coat, but you have to be careful if you seal only one side of a material that can suck up water or it will warp as only one side then can exchange water with the air, so would probably be best to also do the interior as well. also you need to coat it lightly and not soak the building or you could cause some warping there from the varnish itself. layers of light misting of the structure would be the way.

one other thing to watch out for is your glue. white glue does work well on these kits, but too much of it can soak in and potentially swell or warp edges. so far i have used solvent based wood model airplane glue and thick CA glue in assemblies, but am planning on trying white glues but will use the thick 'tacky' white glues you can get at the craft stores. these have less water and are much stickier and dry faster. nice thing about these glues that they are pretty stiff when dry so fillets behind corner joints will help add support and layers between wall layers will also help stiffen things.

ive had a few smaller sankei kits ive built sitting around now for a year or so and they have not warped with no extra structural support or varnish. as i start building kits ill see how well the walls seem to do once assembled to see if i think they need more stiffening. you can always come back later and add stiffening if you dont totally glue the building in place.

cheers

jeff

[John P Boogerd]

Well, I'm going to order some Sankei kits in HO - thanks to this thread I now know that these aren't really paper kits and how to assemble them - thanks everyone!

[Mr Frosty]

Is white PVA glue the preferred adhesive for these kits?
Previously when making paper models, I have used Tissue Cement used for model aircraft and Aliphatic Resin, but the latter is a penetrating glue.

[cteno4]

yep ive used pva on them fine. i usually use the "tacky" white glue you get at the craft store (one brand name is arleenes but there are lots out there). they seem to just be thicker than standard white glue and thus a bit stickier so thing hold themselves in place better and the glue does not spread as much or penetrate into the chipboard too much. also it can give you a good fillet of glue to strengthen things in corners, etc. it also dries faster.

ive also used wood model cement and even thick super glue as well, but im now liking the tacky white pva glue the best. seems to be the least messy, less prone to issues of penetration and discoloration, and not smelly. also super cheap!

some little spring clamp forceps also help to hold things while drying.

one thing, make sure to lightly number your parts in pencil on the back sides as once cut up it can be hard to tell which part should go where and some walls have multiple layers with pieces that can be really close in size.

there is something really zen about building these kits over plastic models...

cheers

jeff