Tomix E1 Decoder install

[Bernard]

Okay I am in Upstate NY (where my layout is) and can FINALLY work on it!! A couple of things I plan to do are finish installing the head & tail light decoder on my 500 which CaptO & Martijn have shown detailed photos of how to do it. But first, I installed a Digitrax DZ125 decoder in a Tomix E!. I don't know why but I find the Kato trains easier to install  decoders than Tomix, I think in part that katos are basically all the same whereas Tomix trains can vary from train to train. Okay lets get on with the install:
Photo #1
Here is the E! opened up. You'll have to take off the passenger seats off in order to get to the motor and the brass stripes that connect the truck pick ups to the motor.

Photo #2
Here is a close up of the motor. Notice the resistor that is connected to the motor for DC control. (This is what Alpineaustralia was talking about) Since we can regulate the speed through the decoder we don't need the resistor. Remove it.
Next I mark the brass strips with a marker to indicate the points that the motor touches the strips.

[Bernard]

Photo #3
Show how I insulate the brass strip from the motor. I use "Katpon" tape. It comes in a yellow roll, is transparent, and 1 roll will last a lifetime. I wrap it around the brass strip and trim it.

Photo #4
Show the completed insulated strips reinstalled in the passenger cradle.

Photo #5
I drilled small holes to pass the decoder wires to be soldered on onto the brass pickup points. I used alligator clips to hold the wires in place and slid the brass out of their slots.

[Bernard]

Photo #6
Now I will solder the decoder wires onto the points of the motor. Remember Grey is on the same side as the Black truck pick up -- Orange is the same side as the Red truck pick up.

Photo #7
After I've soldered the motor wires, I cut two small slits on the rubber insulation and replace it on the chassis. (I do this after I solder so not to melt the rubber). I put the seats back in the passenger carriage and that hides the wires to the truck pick ups.

[Bernard]

Photo #8
The finished E1 with decoder. Also I recommend, if it is a used train, since you will have it apart, oil all the motor and all the gears.
If you have problems do what I plan to do next time, mail the train to Martijn ;D

[Martijn Meerts]

Bernard, that looks like an excellent install. Decoder isn't visible, and wires are neat and tidy. I have no experience yet with Tomix shinkansen installs, but this one at least looks fairly similar to Kato's 800.

I have 3 Tomix shinkansen, but they're all special editions, so I haven't tried converting them yet, although I eventually will =)

If you have problems do what I plan to do next time, mail the train to Martijn ;D

Oy! When were you gonna tell me that? ;) Seriously though, if it wasn't so expensive to mail stuff abroad, I would gladly do decoder installs for people.

[CaptOblivious]

Photo #2
Here is a close up of the motor. Notice the resistor that is connected to the motor for DC control. (This is what Alpineaustralia was talking about) Since we can regulate the speed through the decoder we don't need the resistor. Remove it.
Next I mark the brass strips with a marker to indicate the points that the motor touches the strips.

That's not a resistor, but a capacitor. It doesn't regulate speed, but rather acts as an electronic fly-wheel, supplying the motor with juice during momentary interruptions, as would result from dirty track. Nevertheless, you are right to remove it.

[CaptOblivious]

Very nice! Good illustrations of what you did. It is super helpful to have some photos of a Tomix install! Let us know how it runs! Will you also do the headlights?

[alpineaustralia]

That is almost the same install that I did except:

(a) I soldlered the red and black wires to the brass strips underneath floor (because on the 300 there are no seats to hide the wires) - that is just above the pick ups and forward slightly;

(b) I covered the pick ups with a thin strip of rubber to isolated them from the strips.

As for the capacitor, this connects to both pick ups and so I cannot even imagine how it could be left on the train since it permanently causes a short.  The only option that might be available might be to install it in series but I am not sure I am keen to fiund out whether it works.
I have blown 3 decoders so far and sucessfully installed 3. Batting a 50% average at the moment.
 

[Martijn Meerts]

A typical motor is actually always shorted in a way ;)

The capacitor can be left in, but as mentioned, the same functionality is built in to pretty much every decoder currently available.

[alpineaustralia]

Bernard

Did you ever get a response to your query re decoder installs on trainboard.com (ie http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=105936)?

[Bernard]

No I didn't. When it comes to installing decoders on Japanese prototype trains, I have found that this forum is a better source for information. You and I have found out that Tomix trains for the most part are not easy to install decoders since the configuration is different from model to model, whereas Kato is very consistent.

[alpineaustralia]

Im certain it has something to do with the types of motors. More powerful perhaps but with a greater inital current required to get them starting to rotate and with a greater propensity to stall. I cant help but wonder about the capacitors that come with them and which we remove before installing the decoder.

[Bernard]

It could be but sometimes its the design of the interior of the train. I have the Tomix Nagoya 7000 Panorama and it has been a nightmare to install a decoder. Part of the problem is that it uses the chassis to one of the bushings on the underside for current. To isolate it from the chassis with kapton tape is easy but to attach a wire is difficult because it raises the motor slightly. When I get Upstate NY I'll post a photo of the inside of the train and ask for suggestions on what to do. Here is a photo of the train I'm describing.
Oh, and it also has a capacitor on it's circuit board.

[alpineaustralia]

Yes ...the mysterious capacitor.
I reckon that is what it is. A tomix motor needs that boost to overcome its initial resistance and resistance at lower speeds.  Bloody things.
I have developed a bit of a Tomix phobia and wont even consider buying anymore!

[Bernard]

You're not the only one with that phobia. I was temped to put a bid in on the Kyushu Railway DMU kiha-71 on ebay until I saw it was made by Tomix.

[alpineaustralia]

I have a brand new tomix Keihan Tohoku commuter set which I am waiting to either ebay myself or list for sale in the classifieds here once I get enought other stuff to sell. I am not even going to try to fit a decoder. Bugger it !

[Martijn Meerts]

Hmm.. I have quite a few Tomix sets...

Having installed quite a few decoders in quite a few brands though, I just can't see any reason at all why decoders in a Tomix set should give any problems.

I have a Tomix DD51 with a decoder, and that one's been running just fine.

I also have a Tomix railbus with a decoder. It doesn't drive too well, but that's because it's so awfully light ;)

Lastly, I have a Tomix EF510, which has already seen 2 decoders and 1 motor go bad. Truth be told though, they all went bad running on my fathers' layout, which, at the time, did have some problematic wiring which probably caused several other decoders to shut down.

[alpineaustralia]

Martijn
I am perplexed as to why Bernard and I have troubles with them.
I noticed though that when you guys talk about installing decoders in Tomix trains, you talk about freight trains
Do you have any Tomix shinkansen? a 300 series, Dr Yellow  or E1?
If so, could you please open one up and show us exaclty how you installed your decoder, what brand of decoder etc etc.
I propose to study it to the last detail and see if there is still a problem.

Bernard - lets see if we cant make these bloody things work !

Kato dont make 300s, Dr Yellows and Railstars and so I dont want to leave a stone unturned before writing them off.

[Martijn Meerts]

I have several Tomix shinkansen and other multiple units, but I haven't installed anything in them yet. I could give one a shot, but I don't even have space to put up an oval to test the install for longer periods of time :/

[Bernard]

Alpine - Alright I with you. I have 3 of my Tomix trains working but my 4th has already blown 2 decoders. What I probably will do in a future thread, when I get Upstate, I'll take apart that train and post photos and pick apart the members here to see what I need to do to get it to work.

Here's again and back by popular demand is that cute little Tomix train the Nayoya 7000! Which I affectionately call, "The Decoder Fizzler"