Sumida Crossing

[KenS]

You should be excited (and maybe relieved) to finally have running trains! ^^ That's a big step!

Yes to both!

Congratulatins for the 'first Run'!

Thanks.

[Bernard]

Wow, that's great news! The video shows what a busy layout scenery wise this is going to be.

[Concept Model Trains]

I really enjoyed the video Ken and look forward to more.  You will have great layout when it's complete.

[KenS]

It's been a couple of weeks, time for an update.

I had a bit of fun running trains (no new video), before I put paper and masking tape over the just-completed subway track and began getting messy on the Riverside Station scene.  That's still early days yet, but I'm hoping to have real progress by next weekend, as I'm on vacation (it's a "stay home and catch up on things" vacation, and there should be some time for railroad work in there).

But in addition I've been plugging away at the River Crossing scene, painting the foam of the hillside, and working on the roof for the subway (basically a few sheets of 2mm styrene that had to be cut to fit the foam, and then painted).  I also built the support structure for the expressway (I can't recall if I'd mentioned that before), which is 1/4" threaded rod holding up a plywood base, with 1" PVC pipe around it to make it look like a concrete post. The plywood will eventually be hidden within the real expressway.

And I've finally gotten around to my first test of a photographic backdrop, something I've been planning from "day 1", but never found time for before.

The idea is to cover some/all of my blue backdrops with photos found online (I'm sticking to ones with Creative Commons licenses that allow derivative works), which I'll enlarge, print onto letter-size sheets of paper (good photo paper) and glue to the backdrop. But first I need to test the concept, and see how a likely image looks.  The one I've used, a view from Himeji Castle isn't even of Tokyo, but I like it well enough that I'll probably end up using it for the final image. Blown up to 4-feet wide, with an effective resolution of 64 dpi, it's a bit blotchy up close, but looks pretty good from several feet away. Not perfect, but probably acceptable.

This test image was simply printed on ordinary paper using a color laser printer, and taped to the backdrop with double-sided Scotch tape. It actually looks pretty good, although I expect the tape won't stay stuck very long (my foam-core expressway has had the details I taped to it falling off since about a week after it was built). The eventual "final" image will be printed on a heavier coated stock (I'm thinking of "presentation" paper, which is coated and heavier than ordinary paper, but much lighter than "photo" paper), and will likely be printed on a photo-inkjet printer for best color rendition.

So the end result is that while the "River Crossing Scene" is a long way from done, I've banished all the pink foam from sight under a layer of paint, and all of the structures are roughed in, one way or another.  I have many, many, hours of work yet to do there, someday, but it looks fairly good (at least to me, as compared with the pink scenery I've been looking at for the past eight months; on an objective scale, I'll admit it looks pretty rough).

Photo 1: the photo backdrop of the River Crossing scene, viewed from in front of the Riverside Station scene (i.e., from about eight feet away).

Photo 2: A closer view, about four feet to the near edge

Photo 3: From the other side (notice how the vertical street in the photo leans away in both images; perspective is a funny thing)

Photo 4: The now-painted hillside, with the subway roof in place (it still needs a wall where the road goes up the hill) and the slightly less temporary expressway (final PVC pipe supports and plywood deck, temporary foam-core roadway loosely placed on deck).

Photo 5: This is the end of the Riverside Station scene where the most work has been done.  The foam holding up the Rapid/Shinkansen track (left) is painted and ready to glue down once I finish the river embankment. Another foam-core bridge has been built to serve as a placeholder, and for me to appraise how it will look before I spend time building the real one.

Photo 6: and here's the work to date on the rest.  I've added the window-screen edging to the first layer of foam, but have yet to paint it or add upper layers of foam.

[disturbman]

I quite like your photographic backdrop but, at the same time, something is bothering me. I find the perspective a bit strange and the transition between the model and the backdrop abrupt. Since this part of your layout looks a bit suburban, wouldn't it better to use a picture giving the same impression? Well. That's just an odd feeling I'm having, nothing to be concerned about. :) I hope I didn't piss on your parade.

[KenS]

All feedback is good feedback. Even if I don't agree, having a different perspective helps me refine my ideas. And sometimes I find I do agree, and just hadn't realized it.

The transition from layout to backdrop is always problematic.  The best way to do it requires more space: a hill or row of structures with a gap behind them, to define a space between foreground and background.  I'd been hoping the hill on the layout, coupled with the way the photo starts from behind some trees that surroound the castle it was taken from would help. I may try shifting the photo up to show more of the trees, as well as adding some brush.  This is going to be an even larger issue with using photo backdrops elsewhere on my layout.

The suburban/urban part is a bit harder to pin down. Tokyo has lots of mixed residential/commercial areas with two to three story buildings near larger, more urban, areas, but they aren't adjacent. One of the problems with this photo is that it lacks a band of 4-6 story buildings that could form a transitional break between such areas. I'd hoped the hillside would serve that function, and I think it does, but I see your point.

Finally, the perspective is a problem. From a distance it looks better, but from even four feet away the sharp side angle it's viewed from is not very convincing. I think that's going to be a problem for any backdrop photo used here that has strong vertical lines, which means any urban photo.

Maybe I'll look for a more suburban photo with less of a vertical componet to it and give that a try.

[SubwayHypes]

wow man this layout is kickass.   i love the expressway and river, looks alot like tokyo for sure!   and the amount of custom fab i see is astounding too, im envious. 

that video is really cool too, you incorporated the subway line in there perfectly.

and that backdrop too!  thats exactly what i want to do.  i wonder if they sell anything like that over in japan, i looked but could not find.

[KenS]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

So much of it still feels terribly unfinished to me (and it is), so I don't often step back and look at the things I have done, I just snap a photo of recent work and move on to the next problem. It's good to have someone look at it with fresh eyes and point out that there has been quite a bit of progress over the past year.

I've been in one of my periodic lulls in construction recently. Partly that's because I've been thinking about some problems I have at the end of the Riverside Station scene.  Partly it's because I've been thinking about my electric system and my desire to run DC as well as DCC on the outer loop. I've solved that, I think, with a combination of removing some DCC-based things (e.g., signals) from that loop and adding more wiring. Or at least that's the plan, I have to go do the work now (another pair of bus wires and A/B switches on my electrical control panel).  I'll post an update once that's been done.

[Bernard]

Ken - Don't you know even when you finish a layout, you never finish a layout. 
I'm still working on mine and it's been 6 or 7 years, I've lost count..... Yikes

I do run DC and DCC on my Viaduct line with DTDP switches. It works but I'm very careful when I've been away from the layout. I always test it with a DC train first just to make sure everything is set up right, then I'll go to DCC.
I know the feeling of "now what am I supposed to put in this area of the layout" quandary. Every time I look at the empty area around the viaduct section, my mind goes blank.....so then I run trains. It's a vicious cycle. 

[KenS]

Ken - Don't you know even when you finish a layout, you never finish a layout. 

Yes, but some days it feels like I'm still trying to get started. 

Every time I look at the empty area around the viaduct section, my mind goes blank.....so then I run trains. It's a vicious cycle. 

Oh, do I know that feeling!

[KenS]

It's been quite a while since my last update. Mostly that's because I've been working on electrical wiring and other uninteresting stuff. In addition to more bus wires under the layout, I wired up a panel with some ammeters to keep track of my various power supplies, as well as being a mounting point for my loconet panels, and I've got the DCC system set up and ready to run trains, once I have track connected to it. The panel also has a pair of A/B switches, to switch the two tracks of the outer loop between DC (the two Kato powerpacks) and DCC.  That gives me a place to run my DC trains, and to break in new ones before conversion.

Photos 1 & 2 show the power management panel.

Then I started what I thought would be a quick diversion to finish the subway station roof and put the outer loop tracks above it.  It was anything but quick.

Photo 3 shows the support for the front part of the subway roof.  This is a bar of 1/8 inch aluminum screwed to blocks of wood, which are glued to the table. This holds the roof (0.080-inch styrene) above the level of the cut-out windows in the front fascia. It seems pretty solid despite the 4.5-inch (110mm) span, but I've made provision for some center supports if I need them (1/4-inch brass tube disguised as concrete support columns to be mounted to the subway platform).

Photo 4 shows the back wall of the subway before painting. This will actually be hidden by an inner wall, with the notch used to contain wiring for the station lighting.  This will hold up the other side of the subway roof.

Photos 5 & 6 show the subway station with the roof (white styrene) and the front fascia on.  The roof will have a Woodland Scenics incline glued to it, and then some paint and scenic materials applied. Much of that may wait until later, but I do want to get the riser and roadbed down so I can lay the outer loop track for real.

I was also diverted by planning the grade crossing back by the large river.  I needed to get the mechanism for the crossing gates fully worked out in my head before I glue the foam down.  This is going to be two sets of double gates (entrance and exit, with separate timing) operated by a pair of Tortoise slow-motion switch machines, controlled by a DS64 stationary DCC decoder, so I can control the gates based on block occupancy detection (more Digitrax gear).

Photo 7 shows the street-level plan, and 8 shows the fine brass tubing driven through the foam (and through holes drilled in the table below) which will serve as guides for the wires lifting the gates. I have a rough idea of what the electronics will look like, and most of the parts I need. But I probably won't actually get to wiring it up for a couple of months.  I need to build the crossing gates and signals first, and other things take precedence.

I've been puttering around on the planning of the station on the commuter line, as I mentioned in my recent contest update.  That's going to move to the front burner once I get the outer loop up.  I also need to seriously start converting my trains to DCC (so far I've done one E231 with an EM13 decoder; I have many more to go, as well as quite a few trains that will be more challenging).

[Bernard]

Ken - You've really been busy! Quite an impressive control panel. I have the ability to also run DCC & DC on just one line on my layout, but nothing compared to what you've achieved. Great work!

[SubwayHypes]

damn man really impressive work being done...especially with that electric panel light years ahead of my setup.

what kind of supports are you using for your expressways?  ive been browsing local hardware stores for random things that i wont have to cut.  for example. there are certain PVC tubes that are an even 3 or 4 inches..perfect for that kind stuff.   but it looks like you just cut a 2x4 with a woodsaw at 4" increments...i might have to do that too.

also, how do you manage to print those images?   you mentioned you print is page by page then glue them up.  and you use glossy photo paper?  im probably gonna copy you haha.  i also want to implement an expressway into my layout too but you have so much more room than me lol.  nice work on your layout man im jealous.  but check out mine in a few months it should be pretty nice too!

[KenS]

what kind of supports are you using for your expressways?  ive been browsing local hardware stores for random things that i wont have to cut.  for example. there are certain PVC tubes that are an even 3 or 4 inches..perfect for that kind stuff.   but it looks like you just cut a 2x4 with a woodsaw at 4" increments...i might have to do that too.

Thanks to both of you for the kind comments.  Positive reinforcement is a good thing, expecially when things seem to never quite get finished.

The outer tube is one-inch PVC sanded with 150-grit paper (held in my hand wrapped around the tube) to remove the printing and roughen the surface, painted with off-white plastic-friendly spray paint, then with woodland scenics "concrete" paint. I cut it using a band saw, which doesn't make for square ends, but the way I'm using it that doesn't matter since it's only cosmetic and  both ends will be concealed.

The real support is quarter-inch threaded rod with nuts and washers which runs up the middle of the tube.  There is a page on my site describing it further.  You can get the rod in 1-foot lenths, but I buy long sections and cut it to length using a set of really-big bolt cutters. I had to make a lot of short rods for my viaduct station, so the bolt cutters were a worthwhile investment. You can probably get it cut to length for you at a home supply store if you only need a few cuts.

also, how do you manage to print those images?   you mentioned you print is page by page then glue them up.  and you use glossy photo paper?  im probably gonna copy you haha.  i also want to implement an expressway into my layout too but you have so much more room than me lol.  nice work on your layout man im jealous.  but check out mine in a few months it should be pretty nice too!

It's matte heavy presentation paper,  printed on a color laser printer.  I used PosteRazor on a Mac to cut the image into page-sized segments. There's a problem with that, as it appears to re-send the whole image for each page.  One of my larger images took several hours to print about 20 pages. Then I used a razor-blade photo-trimmer to remove the white borders from each.

I took the backdrop outdoors, sprayed it with some photo-safe (non-acidic) spray glue, then laid the images down with a 1/8-inch overlap (something PosteRazor will add) and rolled them flat with a 4-inch rubber roller (the kind sold in craft stores for spreading ink). I wore my painting filter mask while doing that; spray glue is nothing I want in my lungs.

It was actually pretty easy and quick work, but frankly, I'm not that thrilled with the result.  The seams are too obvious in person.  I'm thinking of trying out a print shop that will do a 48-inch poster print (it may cost around $100 for one though, so I may live with the seams).

I look forward to seeing more of you work.

[inobu]

Good work Ken,

I see what you mean about the seams. You are on the right track (pun?) though. Great progress.

As it was stated the perspective is hard to nail down. The key is to manipulate the disconnect between the brain and the eye. The brain sometimes make assumptions and overlooks certain aspects of the things we view. Viewing perspective plays its role in dictating where the brain assumes you are and links that with your eye level.  



The view angle has the viewer looking down, the clouds and the horizon angle creates a perception of a high cliff that drops off on the other side. Your brain will accept that image and move on. It's not until you apply reason that the back drop is off. The cloud formation in reference to height and distance and sun angle is off.  



This image presents a eye level perspective where we are looking across the plane and the clouds above.  

My latest revelation occurred on Delta airlines. They have in flight data on the screens, as we were landing I tried to match my N Scale viewing perspective with the altimeter. It started matching up at 400 to 300 feet. When I did the math 24 inches is 300 N Scale feet and is the typical viewing distance of our layouts. Most of our layouts are from this viewing angle and perspective.
Birds eye view



When ever you have a layout in the center of the floor/room the back drop is ruled out by the brain. It assumes that you are viewing/flying over the layout and no sky image is expected.

If the layout is against the wall the brain assumes a panoramic view and looks for the sky and horizon. The viewing distance, angle and eye level will dictate the amount of sky placed on the back drop.

Hope it add some insight. In any case your progress and work is commended for sure.

Inobu

[KenS]

You are exactly correct.  The problem is that I didn't leave space behind the track sufficient to do that, On the big curve there's room at the edges for the two small hills, and I'm hoping the addition of some vegetation will help suggest a hill that falls away on the far side. In the center that illusion is always going to be weak, as the track is about an inch from the backdrop and the road draws the eye to the edge. I do have the ability to add space there.  The backdrop can actually be set back about two inches relatively easily, and further with some work, as its only held on by carriage bolts, and a the leg frame below the table extends back two more inches. I may eventually do that if I have to.

On the Urban Station scene I should be able to line the back of the table with a row of buildings, although it may require me to change the design of the tram line.

But the Riverside Station scene is the hard one.  The back track is about an inch from the backdrop, and where it isn't, the subway tracks underneath limit my ability to suggest lower ground.  Right now I'm thinking of some kind of fence, to suggest a street or similar just out of sight, but I'm not sure how well that's going to work, and I've yet to find a wide photo with the right perspective that I can use as a backdrop behind it.

This is clearly an aspect of the design I didn't give adequate thought to when I was working out the track plan.

[inobu]

When we envision the layouts, we create mental snap shots of what we see in our minds, the problem is real life viewer pans or scans the layout, walking from scene to scene. This requires the designer to manage what and how the viewer sees things. Ken ,the basis of the layout is established the only thing you have to do is frame it up.

I remembered seeing a layout that was framed up in multiple scenes............. It took me a while but I found it. I think your best bet is to frame up the layout by placing boarders for the brain to frame the scenes. This will control the scanning nature of the eye.

Here is what I mean by framing up.   



The idea is to confine the movements of the eye and allow you to dictate what they see.


Complete site.

http://csxdixieline.blogspot.com/

[KenS]

It's been a while since I posted.  Partly because I'd posted a few updates on the station contest thread. Recent work has been wiring, more wiring, and then some more wiring. Not to mention track cleaning; it's picked up a lot of construction dirt over the summer.

But, about an hour ago, I finished checking the last wire on the outer double-track look (what I call the Rapid/Shinkansen line).  This is the one that's wired for DC or DCC (big DPDT toggle switch for each track, and a pair of Kato power packs).  And so I ran my first train (well, the first train on that loop with the real track; I'd run a loop of unitrack around the outside of the table about nine months ago, when there was no scenery, and run a few trains then, and I've had the subway loop operational since June).

These are all DC trains.  The DCC stuff should be ready to go, but my one DCC train is on the workbench while I finish adding lighting kits to it (I've got to get back to that; just a couple of cars to go, and one to fix).  After I clean up some scenery, and get the DCC train running, I'm going to try shooting some video and making another short movie.

Photo 1: After I was sure the wiring was good (lots of checks with a multimeter, and one set of crossed feeders to fix) I ran the first trains, but just to be safe in case of problems I used an old B23 and my Tomix DE10 (both are expendable now that I have a couple of Kato DE10s).  Despite some serious cleaning in the last week, there must have been dirt on the track, as they had problems in a few places, but after a few loops those went away (maybe the unijoiners just needed to settle in; I'm not feeding every section, just every four feet or so).

Photo 2: I pulled them off once I was sure of the track, and set up my 16-car M250.  Here it is running down the long straight above the subway station.

Photo 3: Hmm, that Yamanote line driver seems to have wandered onto the wrong track. 

You can't really get the sense of it from these photos, but those trains look just incredible swinging around the big curve above the "village" area.

[disturbman]

Great achievement! :)

[KenS]

Thanks.

[KenS]

It's been a long time coming, but I finally "finished" my first DCC train. This involved adding the "DCC Friendly" cab and motor decoders to a Kato Joban Line E231, installing interior lighting kits, painting the interior and adding passengers (unpainted Preiser figures painted primer gray with black heads, as mostly they're just silhouettes) and adding the decals and cab antennas.

I'm not entirely satisfied with the way it came out (too monochrome on the interior), and will probably try the cheap painted Chinese figures on my next train to make the passengers more visible and add some color.

Photo 1: The finished train, running on DCC

Photo 2: Close-up of the cab front

Photo 3: Close-up side view (note: you'll never see this level of detail from a normal viewing distance)

Photo 4: and this is what it looks like on the inside

And to give a real sense of the impact (which is subtle, but there) I made a video, which also shows off the sweeping curve part of the layout (but that's just a coincidence  ):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cLjAN1mZQwI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/cLjAN1mZQwI</a>

I am glad I painted the interior, even if it didn't come out as good as I'd hoped. The bare beige plastic was really annoying with the lighting kits installed, and at DCC voltages the LED lighting was too bright reflected off the light-colored plastic. The painted interior tones the intensity down and adds some texture from the blue seats and gray interior. But you can't really see the gray people from a normal distance when the train is moving.

[David]

I'm looking at doing this with my E127 units (and then maybe others) in the future, so this really helps show how it can look. I don't think you can notice it from outside, but if you wanted a tighter paint job on the seats, dollar store masking tape seems to work wonders (my recent layout showing me just how sharp a line you could get). The cheap, "squishy" tape instead of the firmer scotch brand name stuff was key, as the glue is very weak allowing it to be peeled off easily. I might do the same with my Hankyu set (painting the seat covers on), but for that one I need to find a lot of sitting passengers (cutting standing people might not work well because of the position of their hands).

[Bernard]

Ken - I liked what you did, now I'm curious how this would work with Shinkansen seating, where passengers are sitting side by side.
 
David - with all the work involved, is it worth making it a permanent fixture with people sitting in the train.
Meaning, a very, very small drop of CA glue.

Ooops, my mistake about the masking tape. 

[David]

I didn't mean tape for the people, the tape is for masking off the area around the seats - that way there is a nice clean line between the blue seats and the floor. Once the paint is dried the tape is removed. With the standing/sitting, it's about the fact that the standing peoples hands are often just below their hips - if you just cut standing people to make them into "sitting" people it looks like they're sitting on their hands. Either way they need to be glued down (even sitting people probably need some of their legs cut off to fit the higher floor of the model).

[KenS]

Most Shinkansen windows are pretty small.  I'd see that as more of a problem for the Limited Express trains with big windows and either side-by-side seating or seats that face observation windows.  For a Shinkansen, probably all you could see would be the head of the figure in the window seat, if that. That's reason to use the painted figures there.

And likewise, you really only see the back of seated figures from most viewing angles on the commuter train, so "sitting on their hands" wouldn't be obvious.  But that is going to be a problem for the visible-seat kinds of trains.  I may have to invest (and that's a good word, they're not cheap) in painted Preiser or similar figures there.

I did have to cut the legs off the seated figures a bit below the knees, due to the floor height. In the cab cars, I cut them off at the waist, as the floor is actually higher than the seats in some places, and only slightly lower elsewhere.

Tape, or masking film used for airbrushing, would be good to use where the front of the seat is really visible, but unless you're going to look very closely that isn't really the case with typical commuter trains. If you have steady hands you could probably just paint very carfully. I was pretty sloppy here and painted quickly without much caution, in part because I wanted to see if the mistakes were visible. Also, I didn't do a second coat of gray to fix overpainting of blue onto the floor or uprights. The idea was to see if it's worth the time to do a better job, or if this is a place that's not needed. My conclusion is that the extra work would be unnecessary.

BTW, I used Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, so I can remove and replace the figures if I decide to make a change. It seems to hold up well to moving the car around to put the roof on and put it on and off the track, although I'm going to be careful when storing that set now. But I may use superglue or plastic cement on future trains, once I find a look I like.

[CaptOblivious]

BTW, I used Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, so I can remove and replace the figures if I decide to make a change. It seems to hold up well to moving the car around to put the roof on and put it on and off the track, although I'm going to be careful when storing that set now. But I may use superglue or plastic cement on future trains, once I find a look I like.

Could you say a bit more what this glue is like? I used plain white glue (PVA glue) to attach figures inside one of my trains, and I found that the glue is a bit…brittle? The figures will detach if the train is handled the least bit roughly. So I'm looking for something else that holds better but that is non-permanent.

[cteno4]

Ill put in my 2 cents on the scenics accents glue. i like it for little things like figures that you might want to move easily later. its sort of a cross between rubber cement and pva. gives you a pretty strong bond that is a little flexible. holds up well. i have figure sets held down now for like 2 years on acetate sheets that i plop on the jrm layout and they get flexed and knocked around and still hanging in there. every once and a while one of the figures gets knocked at an angle but none knocked off yet. you can even pull them up and squish them down again to stick somewhere else, the second stick is not as hard, but for streets where its not getting knocked around its fine. in fact you can just let a little dab partially dry on their feet and then stick on a street to get a bit tackier of a bond (when the glue is wet figures can slowly lean over until it starts to set up.)

you can also pick it off if needed. i suspect it will also soak off with water, but have not tried that.

one thing is it can collect a tiny bit of dust as it does stay a tad tacky.

cheers

jeff

[David]

BTW, I used Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, so I can remove and replace the figures if I decide to make a change. It seems to hold up well to moving the car around to put the roof on and put it on and off the track, although I'm going to be careful when storing that set now. But I may use superglue or plastic cement on future trains, once I find a look I like.

Could you say a bit more what this glue is like? I used plain white glue (PVA glue) to attach figures inside one of my trains, and I found that the glue is a bit…brittle? The figures will detach if the train is handled the least bit roughly. So I'm looking for something else that holds better but that is non-permanent.

Assuming "Accent Glue" is refering to the Woodland Scenic S190 Scenic Glue (frequently referenced by WS as being used to attach "accent" pieces), then it is not like white glue in that regard. I'm going to post some kind of post-mortem on my layout construction soon or later, including a review of the products used.

The S190 glue is an interesting product. It is initially like white glue, both in color and texture (though it is more opaque, being a solid white instead of a watery white), and is applied in the same way. It dries to a very pleasing clear matte finish (rather then a white finish), even in thick quantities. Once dried it becomes rock hard (not brittle), rather then the weaker, brittle bond of white glue or the slightly elastic bond of rubber cement. I should emphasis that it dries into a very hard material - when I overfilled my wiring holes with it, resulting in one hole being sealed with a thin deposit, it took considerable effort with files and tools to penetrate and break it down. The one downside compared to rubber cement (which led me to using the cement some of the pieces of my buildings) is that it takes a while to harden, and until then it remains watery like white glue. This makes it less useful for attaching small parts, where rubber cements semi-contact glue properties are an advantage.

[David]

Ill put in my 2 cents on the scenics accents glue. i like it for little things like figures that you might want to move easily later. its sort of a cross between rubber cement and pva. gives you a pretty strong bond that is a little flexible. holds up well. i have figure sets held down now for like 2 years on acetate sheets that i plop on the jrm layout and they get flexed and knocked around and still hanging in there. every once and a while one of the figures gets knocked at an angle but none knocked off yet. you can even pull them up and squish them down again to stick somewhere else, the second stick is not as hard, but for streets where its not getting knocked around its fine. in fact you can just let a little dab partially dry on their feet and then stick on a street to get a bit tackier of a bond (when the glue is wet figures can slowly lean over until it starts to set up.)

you can also pick it off if needed. i suspect it will also soak off with water, but have not tried that.

one thing is it can collect a tiny bit of dust as it does stay a tad tacky.

cheers

jeff

What is the product number of the accent glue we're talking about? I haven't used the S190 glue in those small quantities yet (N scale foot size), but my experience so far has been of a very strong bond - or maybe that's because of how porous the materials I've used it on are. I haven't tested the bonds made on my buildings with it yet.

[Samurai_Chris]

Great job Ken!

Makes me realize just how much effort needs to go into something like this!

Chris

[KenS]

I have two jars of the glue, both 1.25 Oz with part number A198,  and both bearing 2002 copyrights on the label, but one is marked "Accent Glue" and the other is "Scenic Accents Glue". They appear to be identical, and the latter name is the one now found on their website's product list, in the Figures & Accents section, not listed with the scenery glues.  This is not the same as Scenic Glue (S190), Scenic Cement (S191), Hob-e-tac (S195) of Foam Tac Glue (ST1444).

As others have said, this doesn't act like normal white glue.  The cap contains a brush, and you brush it on as a whiteish fluid (they recommend lightly sanding the surface first), and it dries (to the extent that it dries) clear, but remains somewhat tacky so figures can be moved. For standing figures, it's best to wait until the white disappears before attaching the figure.

I'm not sure what's in it, but it looks, smells, and feels like white glue, so I expect that's the base and they just added something to keep it tacky. There are no hazmat cautions on the jar, as I expect there would be for anything solvent-based.

Chris: thanks, it is a bit of effort, but well worth it.

[cteno4]

my first bottle was the ws accent glue. my second is a 2oz bottle thats actually named sticky bond, its the scenorama brand by woodland scenics (same ws stuff they just repackage to sell for kids diorama stuff in craft stores). same stuff as the accent glue, just a bigger bottle and got to use the 50% off ac moore coupon! looks, smells and acts just like the accent glue, but with a bigger brush on the lid!

cheers

jeff

[KenS]

Just a quick note: I finally got around to assembling the video I've been shooting to show off the current state of the layout, and some of my trains:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PI280KGoQ_M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/PI280KGoQ_M</a>

[disturbman]

It's always impressive too see such long trains run. Nice roster by the way.

[Bernard]

That is one long Cargo Express! The layout looks great!

[disturbman]

Ken, I tried to reply on your website but couldn't post any answer.

Maybe you should just forget the idea of the river side station and do something totally different there. After all, I don't think that a station located on such a slope is very prototypical.

[KenS]

iWeb uses a pop-up window for comments, so if you've got any kind of pop-up blocker that will probably mess with it.  I've had the same problem replying to other people's sites, as my usual browsing machine blocks pop-ups.

I'd thought about doing something else (like some urban scenery of some kind), but if I want to keep the river there's really no room for anything else. And the track placement is dictated by the need to link to both the subway and the future helix to the storage tracks. And, while I do have the big urban station, I really want to have a second station on the commuter line.  This would all be easier if I had a larger basement. 

There is a prototype in a sense, as Ochanomizu Station has a split platform with up and down-grade tracks at one end (see the left side of this photo).  However, as you note mine would be a much more pronounced grade, and that does bug me.

Right now, with just the bare, white WS risers and inclines, the rising and descending 2% grades are very pronounced. But I think I can disguise some of that with suitable platforms (careful use of awnings may help conceal the large vertical wall immediately behind the front track). Another possibility is to make the platform on the lower track shorter, since trains interrunning to the subway could be presumed to be shorter 6-car trains, rather than the 10-car trains on the main commuter line.  I'm still not sure I like that idea though.

I've attached a side-on view to show what I'm looking at presently (somewhat rough, as I can't step far enough back to take good side-on photo to assemble a panorama evenly) as well as the station diagram.

[CaptOblivious]

I think that although the grade separation on Sumida Crossing is more pronounced than the prototype, that it would nicely represent the feel of Tokyo; it is a kind of hilly city, and there is frequently a lot going on at different levels I'm thinking now in particular of the Western side of Ueno station, where the road running beside the station drops in elevation, creating an interesting layered effect.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Tokyo&sll=38.61012,-90.255646&sspn=0.008518,0.013797&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tokyo,+Japan&ll=35.712406,139.774976&spn=0.017701,0.027595&z=15&layer=c&cbll=35.712503,139.775047&panoid=S4RyFr0RyBdlyKKs5oVT1Q&cbp=12,45.95,,0,7.1

I know it's not two platforms, but I think the current plan for Sumida Crossing nicely captures something of this multi-layered feel.

[KenS]

Thanks, Captain.  And that's a really neat street.  I'd Google Mapped around Ueno park and station before, but somehow missed it.  The underground parking garage is a nice detail too.  You can suggest quite a bit with a dark hole into a hillside and some gates and signs. And I like the little slice-of-life on the street.  Is that a bicyclist getting ticketed for something? Or are the five(!) of them just guarding the traffic cone?

I've been staring at the track a bit more, and working on the alignment of the tracks under the bridge at the far right of the scene (second photo, taken from behind).

I've also done a second panorama (hopefully more evenly; this time I used a tripod and was careful to keep most of the photos square on so the perspective isn't too screwy) with a couple of ten-car trains for size comparison (the panorama software glued a couple of the cars together so it looks more like an eight-car train, but both really were ten).

With the cars there, I can visualize the eventual station a bit better.  Still need to stare at it a bit more, but I'm getting happier with it.

[KenS]

It's been a long time since I posted a real update, mainly because not much has been happening (aside from running trains, and a bit of tinkering on the electrical system). But with the end of the year approaching I decided to make a push to get the inner oval "commuter line" operational, and that meant finishing the topography of the Riverside Station scene.

I've fallen a bit short of the goal, although I should have it working sometime in January. But for now, here's an update.

First, I decided to go with a photo backdrop that was printed as one image, rather than using the individual sheets of paper that's I'd used on the River Crossing scene last summer. In part that was because I hadn't liked the finished look, and in part because the glue (spray-on photo-safe glue) hadn't held very well on the painted surface and the paper was starting to peel in places.

My plans ran into a slight snag, as you can see in the first photo: after printing the image, I realized I'd really made a serious mistake on my dimensions (the new print is on the right, the backdrop it needs to be glued to, along with a taped up test image from last summer, is on the left). If you're curious just how this train wreck happened, I wrote it up on my site.

After a bit of panic (not to mention lurid shouting at inanimate objects) I decided that I actually liked the image, although I do have some concerns that the height may be too dominating for the scene, even for a city skyline.  So I decided to add some height to the backdrops with an extension. Photos 2 and 3 show the extension being added and painted (I used spackle to fill the slight gap between the two pieces). I won't paint the new part blue, since it's all going to be hidden anyway, but I wanted a coat or two of primer to seal the wood before I put glue on it; I want a good bond, but not a "stronger than wood" bond, just in case I decide to remove the photo and use another later. Sealing the wood means I'll use less glue, and the bond will be weaker (but I think I've solved the "too weak" problem).

To take the backdrop off, I actually disassembled part of the layout, extracting the pair of 2' x 4' tables that make up the Riverside Station scene and flipping them around so I could work from the back with the backdrops removed.  This made it much easier to plaster and paint the risers.  Photos 4 and 5 show today's state of progress; the paint is drying as I type.

Next up will be adding the foam roadbed itself, then painting it gray (with artists acrylic Gray #5, which is a good match for the Kato roadbed color).  I'll probably also do some touch-up painting on the embankment and river before I put things back together.  I also need to add similar height extensions to the Urban Station scene, which is best done before I reinstall the Riverside Station tables (that way I can take the backdrops off, but I won't have to take the Urban Station apart).

And finally, while I have the Riverside Station backdrops off, I'm going to glue on the photos.  After a bit of research, I've decided the best glue for this is a PVA type originally developed for decoupage use known as "Mod Podge", or more specifically the acid-free version of it known as "Paper Mod Podge", which was developed for scrapbooking and is reported to work well for attaching photos (coated paper) to painted wood. The other type of glue recommended for paper-to-wood is 3M 77 spray glue, but it isn't acid-free, and it's both flammable and incredibly toxic, which rules out indoor use (and it's too cold out to glue stuff even if I wanted to use it).

Once I get all that done, I still have some wiring work before I'll be running trains (and the last time I did it, the feeder cross-connects alone took me two weeks and 200' of wire, although that was both the subway plus the express loop). Realistically, it's probably going to be close to February before I can run trains on the inner loop.

[Bernard]

Ken - I find once you get trains running sometimes it hard to get back on track with the building. This past week I had planned to work on my layout but my wife came down with the flu and that put all plans on hold.
The backdrop you've done does add depth to your layout.

[KenS]

Everything always takes longer than I expect, although part of the month was spent on building one of Don's LOLboosters (which was both educational, and a lot of fun) so I guess I can blame that for the delay in getting the layout back together (still not quite there) rather than my tendency to procrastinate. 

But I finally finished the photo backdrop for my Urban Station scene, and the one for the soon-to-be-reassembled Riverside Station scene is almost done.  Here are a couple of photos of the first; the other should follow within a week.

My big problem with these is that the glossy photo is reflecting the floodlights I use for lighting the layout, causing bright spots when viewed side on.  This is a problem due to the extra height of the backdrop (the glare is coming from the part I added, so if I'd kept the photos to the original 18" height I wouldn't have this problem).  I'm going to try tinkering with the light placement to see if I can minimize this.  As you can see from the photos, this is less of a problem in close-up or angled views.

If you're curious about how I made the photo backdrops from photos I found on Flickr, I wrote that up.

Despite the glare, I'm satisfied with the results, and much happier than I was with last summer's attempt using separate pages printed via laser printer.  The photo prints weren't cheap (about $120 per 4' backdrop, although a lot of that was due to their height; shorter photos would cost less), but assuming I keep them for the life of the layout, it's not really that great an expense compared to other parts of the structure (track, for example).  I'm eventually going to re-do the River Crossing scene backdrop I did last summer with this new method.

Photo 1: a close up, with the backdrop looking rather good

Photos 2 - 4: some other views at an angle, which don't look quite as good

Photo 5: the full side-on view, showing the reflected lights

[cteno4]

Ken,

wonderful backdrop, really hard to tell at first glance where the models stop! nice write up as well on your backdrops!

cheers

jeff

[Tenorikuma]

I agree, those are pretty nice backdrops.

[KenS]

Here's a photo of the Riverside Station backdrop in nearly final position (the tables aren't back together yet, as I'm taking the time to do the wiring with them stood on edge (and clamped so they won't fall over).  I might get this all back together this weekend.  Meanwhile, the backdrop has been roughly put into its final position so I can see how it looks.

I don't think it works quite as well as the one in the Urban Station (and oddly enough, before I put them up I thought this one would work better than that one), but with suitable scenery (station, platform roofs, buildings, fences, etc) obscuring the lower edge, I think it will be okay.

Note: the wire in the second photo is six sets of bus wires. Two for DCC to allow later expansion, two for the DC/DCC tracks of the outer loop, one for DC power to various circuit boards, and one for DC power to the planned signaling system control boards. Not yet present are the circuit breaker and occupancy detector boards, which go in the open areas in the middle (one set of boards will serve 16 occupancy detectors, enough for both tables).

In the middle of wiring up the track feeders, I ran out of insulated Unijoiners earlier this week.  An emergency order to MB Klein (modeltrainstuff.com) saw a bunch shipped two-day UPS, which arrived today (I have to say I'm very happy with how quickly they ship orders; I've seen some places that would take three or four days before they shipped an expedited order, which rather misses the point).

[KenS]

After a great deal of wire-cutting, soldering, lug-crimping, and pulling of hair (not to mention going back and re-reading documentation and seeking out more), I finally have my first set of PM42 circuit breaker and BDL168 occupancy detector (with 2x RX4 transponding sensors) installed on the left of the two Riverside Station tables.  Now I just need to repeat that for the right one, and I can actually put them back together.

I remember back in December saying they'd be back together in a week or two; ah, optimism.

Anyway, here's a couple of photos of the table (PM42/BDL168/RX4 on the right half, wires and DS64 on the left) and a diagram showing how a representative RX1 sensor (one of four in an RX4 cluster) fits into the wiring.  I've written up my "lessons learned" on my site.

My spools of LED strip lights also arrived, and I plan to use them to light the Subway station as part of all of this work (which requires actually building a back wall, and putting in the platform, albeit probably a temporary one using Kato's platforms). I'm going to experiment with the normal white and warm white versions (I bought spools of each) and see how they look.

[keitaro]

Ahhhhh........

.........

.........

That's some insane wiring

This is why I do DC

I could never do that I would get frustrated and brake things haha.

Of I ever do DCC your coming to my house and wiring it 

[Kumo]

Ahhhhh........

.........

.........

That's some insane wiring

This is why I do DC

I could never do that I would get frustrated and brake things haha.

Of I ever do DCC your coming to my house and wiring it  

lol, I was thinking exactly the same!  

[scott]

I feel like an elementary-school kid who's just been handed a textbook on advanced quantum mechanics. 

[Bernard]

The wiring is very organized and neatly done.....the way Ken's organized it, it is very easy to locate a problem if and when it happens.