dcc for kato portram?

[nik_n_dad]

Hello.

Now that the Kato Portrams are easier to find, we are thinking of getting some.  Has anyone looked at installing a decoder in this little guy?  I don't have a problem frosting the widows to hide an ugly decoder- just wasn't sure if it was even possible.

thanks

[CaptOblivious]

In another thread here, somone said they understood that the two motors were 6V beasts. You should carefully examine the circuitry to determine if thatvis so, and how Kato dealt with it. Are they in series? This would allow the use of the usual 12V supply. In series? Then the 12V supply has to be dropped to 6V somhow...but how is it done? Can you use that circuit in your vinstall, or rig a different method? Currently all open questions.

[bill937ca]

As for the windows (which may be the least of your problems) these cars have window blinds like many Japanese trains.

http://www.hirolrt.com/romendensya/raito/0600/0602.html

[Martijn Meerts]

It should be quite doable to install a decoder in the trams. The motors probably don't require a lot of power, so you can hook both motor up to the same motor output. You should look for a decoder which allows you to set the maximum voltage/maximum sped, most decoders can do that.

I believe it was mentioned the motors are 3 volt motors btw.

[CaptOblivious]

I thinkm relying on the decoder for voltage control is a bad idea. Most (all?) Decoders use pulse width modulation to achieve lower voltages. So at 25% max, the decoder isn't putting out 3V, but pulses of 12V at a 25% duty cycle. We need to know if the motors can withstand this. I'm betting not. Better to use a 1W resistor to control voltage to the motor, or best yet, whatever circuit Kato is using to solve drop 12V DC o the 3V the motors want.

[to2leo]

Yike it is situation like this that scare the heck out of me into getting DCC.  Though I am looking forward to see someone who will make the first jump.  As always, I will post it here if I found out who had successfully done it.

[westfalen]

Yike it is situation like this that scare the heck out of me into getting DCC.  Though I am looking forward to see someone who will make the first jump.  As always, I will post it here if I found out who had successfully done it.

I too am waiting for someone with better electronics knowledge and more courage than me to try first. I was hoping Kato would have made some provision for DCC, maybe it even stumped them.

It would be interesting though, DCC would allow you to have trams lined up bumper to bumper down the street waiting for a turn to get through the stop lights. It would really add realism if you had to keep an eye on the tram in front of you. 

[Martijn Meerts]

I thinkm relying on the decoder for voltage control is a bad idea. Most (all?) Decoders use pulse width modulation to achieve lower voltages. So at 25% max, the decoder isn't putting out 3V, but pulses of 12V at a 25% duty cycle. We need to know if the motors can withstand this. I'm betting not. Better to use a 1W resistor to control voltage to the motor, or best yet, whatever circuit Kato is using to solve drop 12V DC o the 3V the motors want.

Good point, I doubt 3 volt motors would like getting 12 volt spikes the whole time. But it should be quite possible to just use the existing circuitry.

I don't have the Kato version of the Portram, so I can't check it out. I have to say though, that Unitram stuff looks amazing and is quite tempting. On the other hand, Tomix will be coming out with more of their tram track accessory kits soon-ish it seems...

[CaptOblivious]

Yeah, the Kato Portram really does look like an amazing piece, but neither will I be getting one any time soon. Any train moneys already have about a dozen higher priority targets.

[IST]

It would be interesting though, DCC would allow you to have trams lined up bumper to bumper down the street waiting for a turn to get through the stop lights. It would really add realism if you had to keep an eye on the tram in front of you. 

And it would be great to see the inner lights at that time, when the trams are waiting for passangers...
I am dreaming about building a tram network with lot of switches and different routes which are running based on a timetable and controlled by a PC.

[to2leo]

I often ask why can't the model railroad industry just decide on a standard application slot for DCC so that it will be as simple as getting the a standard 'lego' piece to plug in place?

Also, I wonder if any PC simulation game (Transport Tycoon, Railroad Tycoons...) can be used to control a layout out run by PC?

[Martijn Meerts]

I often ask why can't the model railroad industry just decide on a standard application slot for DCC so that it will be as simple as getting the a standard 'lego' piece to plug in place?

Also, I wonder if any PC simulation game (Transport Tycoon, Railroad Tycoons...) can be used to control a layout out run by PC?

there are various standard NEM plugs. A small 6-pin one for small decoders, a 21-pin for large sound decoders etc. However, those are mainly used by European brands. Doubt the Japanese brands will use such a standard, especially considering they're not actively working on DCC

[IST]

I often ask why can't the model railroad industry just decide on a standard application slot for DCC so that it will be as simple as getting the a standard 'lego' piece to plug in place?

I think in the past the 6 pin model was enough to control the train and lights, but new functions invented... (different sounds, door opening, pantograph, etc.)

[westfalen]

While searching for a decoder to fit my new Kato EF510-500 I came across this.

http://www.snjpn.com/ngdcc/de28/de28TLRKj.htm

I'm ordering one to give it a try.

[CaptOblivious]

NGDCC does it again. Very interesting. The guy behind the company (forget his name) is very friendly and his English is good.  I don't recall that he would sell his products outside of Japan, though, so please let us know if you figure out how to order from him!

[Martijn Meerts]

I seem to remember reading before that he doesn't ship outside of Japan as well ...

Those function decoders especially are interesting. Because they're not insanely expensive (the single function decoder is around 12 USD a piece if you buy 20), it might actually be doable installing them in a full 16-car shinkansen for example, so you can turn the interior lighting on/off for the entire train.

[westfalen]

NGDCC does it again. Very interesting. The guy behind the company (forget his name) is very friendly and his English is good.  I don't recall that he would sell his products outside of Japan, though, so please let us know if you figure out how to order from him!

To save duplicating it here, refer to my thread on the EF510.
http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,3230.msg32157.html#msg32157
Will keep all informed of progress.

[inobu]

David posted a good links showing the Portram disassembled.

I don't know if this has been posted, but it can provide some insight into the Portram mechanism.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn221/raylue/RailModel/KATO%20PORTRAM%20TLR/

It's from an 009 board (narrow gauge using N scale track), where the bogies are being seen as a possible replacement for the old Kato pocket line power unit for making very small locomotives and critters (albet a lot more expensive, even if you can get two from one Portram) along side the newest Pro-Hobby mini chasis.

[westfalen]

My package of decoders arrived from NGDCC today. I'll do my EF65 and EF510 first to work up a bit of courage before I pick out one of my Portrams as a guinea pig to try the Portram decoder.

[Webskipper]

So has anyone found a sure fire way to add DCC to the Kato Trams?

[westfalen]

So has anyone found a sure fire way to add DCC to the Kato Trams?

I still haven't tried out my Portram decoder, other projects have pushed my tram modules down the priority list.

[Webskipper]

Looks like NGDCC got a hold of a White Kato Centram and converted it to DCC.

Any hints on a decoder choice?

http://www.ncn-t.net/tsuda-railway/centram9001.htm

[CaptOblivious]

Looks like NGDCC got ahold of a White Kato Centram and converted it to DCC.

Any hints on a decoder choice?

http://www.ncn-t.net/tsuda-railway/centram9001.htm

That looks like one of NGDCC's own decoders…this one to be precise:
http://www.snjpn.com/ngdcc/de28/de28TLRKj.htm

[Webskipper]

Don- I was referring to choices for us (TCS, Digutrax, NCE, Lenz, etc)

[CaptOblivious]

Don- I was referring to choices for us (TCS, Digutrax, NCE, Lenz, etc)

I see! That would be the empty set right now, I think, given the Portram's unique electronics...

[westfalen]

Looks like NGDCC got ahold of a White Kato Centram and converted it to DCC.

Any hints on a decoder choice?

http://www.ncn-t.net/tsuda-railway/centram9001.htm

Thanks for finding this, I will have to have a go at installing my NGDCC decoder (actually two decoders) in a portram now I have a good pictorial 'how to' on it. I've got NGDCC decoders in my DE10, EF510 and new mechanism EF65, they seem to be good decoders and are designed to fit the locos they are meant for. You have to solder on your own SMD LED's but that gives you the advantage of picking the colour you want and NGDCC will also sell you them if you want.