Yet another Woodland Scenics Scenic Ridge layout… ^_^;;

[qwertyaardvark]

I can’t take it anymore! I can no longer contain my jealousy for yall’s permanent layouts that my floor-laid Unitrack layouts simply cannot compare to…

Alas, I have literally zero experience with the model railroad tools of the trade and needing somewhere to start, I’ve had my eye on the Scenic Ridge kit for quite a while and I’ve decided to go ahead and bite the bullet sometime after new year’s. I figure if someone else pre-plans and pre-packages all the materials for a layout for me, I won’t dig myself too deep of a hole; this is mainly to keep me from modeling Tokyo Station for the first try. (I *heart* my shinkansens) :P Also, being a college student, I want/need to keep financial (and other) disasters to a minimum. On the other hand, I do intend on stepping off the beaten path and somewhat modifying the layout a bit.

As far as prototypical-ness goes, it will probably not match reality verbatim, but hopefully it won't be too terribly far, and a particular line/region won't be modeled. Since this is more like a practice layout, it will be planned with a kicks-and-giggles kind of mentality. It will set in a modern-day-ish small rural town. I will also pretend there is a rail fan trip on that given day, so there will be a C62 and “selectively compressed” shortened Tsubame car setup trailing behind it. (or to hell with it, I’ll go ahead and attach all 13 cars on there) ^_^ I may also run my EF65 and 24系25形 Blue Train cars through the region...

Other features/changes from original manual instructions:
-a given: all Japanese buildings and structures; station might be added
-simple DC system powered by Kato power pack
-code 80 Peco flex track with concrete ties
-removing the small stream and culvert
-adding rice paddies so I still have a chance to play with water-modeling products
-moving/minimizing sidings and turnouts; marking turning radii larger
-a cherry blossom park overlooking the city
-flattening the top of the mountain and placing a shrine with pagoda overlooking the park
-kits from several manufacturers (Greenmax, Kato, Tomix/Tomytec) so that I can get feel for different mfgs kits and see which one(s) I like more/hate less
-will experiment between the WS Road System versus spackle
-add catenary
-all buildings and cherry trees will be made removable for future layouts (these things are expensive! ;_; )

Pie in the sky:
-lighted buildings and trains
-signal system
-adding people/cars

Initial investments:
(any specific tools yall suggest? or ones yall think I can do without?)
-airbrush with compressor with tank
-paints, weathering powder
-set of small tools (rail snips, fine saw, file, xacto knife)
-set of small clamps to help assemble building kits
-glue for plastic models
-foam cutter
-low temp glue gun

Probably won’t start buying anything beyond the kit until after the holidays. I’m planning to start work on the buildings first to see where they can go on a initial mockup of the layout kit, finalize track/road/geographic jazz, and then work from there. Perhaps sometime during the my holiday break I’ll play with XtrkCAD and draw up what I have in mind.

Pardon the long post. ^^;; I intend on making this a place for my notes/thoughts, etc. All comments and questions gladly accepted. :)

[Mudkip Orange]

Scenic Ridge is a pretty legit starting point, the basic track plan (folded dogbone) is common to both US and Japanese models.

You might consider adding a second loop around the outside, like in the attached photo (need to be logged in to see).

That lets you run two trains at once, and provides a natural location for a railroad station.

[Bernard]

I really like the WS kits, they will teach you methods for building a layout with step-by-step photos. You can also use your Unitrack on this layout if you decide not to go with the Peco flex track. The kit measures 3'x6' and is lightweight because it's mostly styrofoam.
For this kit I don't think you will need a lot of tools. Here is what I think you will need:
Tpins to pin down the WS Risers & Inclines
Bread Knife to cut the foam boards used in the back-plates
wood sticks to spread the glue
Paint roller pan or basin to wet the hydrocal cloth.
If you use Peco flex track instead of Unitrack, you will need a soldering iron to join the rails and feeder wires.

But the best thing is that you want to get started on a layout, and I hope it all works out for you and I hope you post the progress of your layout here. 

[qwertyaardvark]

I just bought the kit today, and i must say this thing is AMAZING! Truly fascinating to see what all goes into making just the geography of a layout. ^_^

@Mudkip: just looking at the layout plans online, it seemed like it'd be difficult to put that outer loop into an already small layout (I'm not liking those 9.75" curves it calls for x_x), but upon initial toying around with track, it seems very much possible, and am strongly considering adding that outer loop. thanks for the idea! :)

@Bernard: additional tools noted :)  For sure, I will post progress here as it comes!

[Bernard]

Qwerty - Before you start, test those 9.75 radii with the trains on your roster just to make sure they can are make it. (You can do this by just making a small oval with 9.75 curves)

[qwertyaardvark]

layout-planning update:

-had thoughts about increasing the size of the layout to 4x8, but nixed the idea quickly because of the need to ensure it can moved between my rented house in atlanta, and my home in houston. 3x6 is just about the upper limit of what can fit in my "car" (SUV) comfortably.

-even with the outside loop, and after playing around with the design a bit, ive got it so that the minimum radius is a considerably more comfortable 12.4 inches (Kato curve R315), and will be adjusted to a still-comfortable 11.1 inches (Kato curve R282) if needed.

-had thoughts about perhaps just using Kato Unitrack, esp since designs were made using the Kato track template, but i felt like trying out something other than what im used to just to try out something new

-because of my greediness of wanting 7+ car + locomotive trains running on the layout, the station will be forgone, since, due to the cramped space limiting the length of the platform, it would limit the length of the train to just 3 cars and locomotive, or have a ridiculous looking layout where 8-car trains run in a 4-car station world. granted there are prototypes and car configurations i've found out there with 3 pieces of rolling stock or less, i guess im just baised to longer trains. that and the fact that i already have a 7-car basic set that i just hate to have to only run part of a set. (me and my "all or nothing" mentality)

-had thoughts about leaving access panel openings permanently open to connect to some sort of detachable yard module. continuing having said thoughts. now that i have two loops, its kinda bad that i only have one set (appropriate for this sized layout) to run, and barely enough financial prowess to get one more operational set. while i dont think i need a yard/staging area, will still keep this idea open and save as a future project.

-the one set i currently have to run is a EF65 attached to 7 24-series cars. the other set im hoping to acquire is a Kato C62 and the 7-car basic set for the Tsubame (combined, going on Yahoo auctions for a little over 200$+shipping (Japan to auction service to me))

-since im in houston for the holidays, no physical progress on the layout will done until i return to atlanta on Jan 10... almost a month :(  i still intend on purchasing important items (such as track and structures) during the holidays, but it will all be shipped to atlanta. upon returning, i expect a lot of weekly, maybe even daily, progress on the layout ^_^

-will post descriptions and pics about purchases as they are made, as well as keep some sort of Bill of Materials tab running to keep track of the damage :P

[Bernard]

qwerty - A while back I was looking at the WS kit and was wondering if it can be made to be modular and in the future add on to it? It seems that there is a small yard as part of the plan but maybe one of the track in the yard could be made for an extension.
Also if you plan to transport the 3'x6' layout will it be easy to transport that size, (not knowing what vehicle you have) or do you need to make the layout in 2 sections?

[Mudkip Orange]

-because of my greediness of wanting 7+ car + locomotive trains running on the layout, the station will be forgone, since, due to the cramped space limiting the length of the platform, it would limit the length of the train to just 3 cars and locomotive, or have a ridiculous looking layout where 8-car trains run in a 4-car station world. granted there are prototypes and car configurations i've found out there with 3 pieces of rolling stock or less, i guess im just baised to longer trains. that and the fact that i already have a 7-car basic set that i just hate to have to only run part of a set. (me and my "all or nothing" mentality)

Have you thought about a curved platform? A decent chunk of Japanese railway stations have curving platforms; Kato and Tomix's offerings are arrow-straight for ease of manufacture only.

[qwertyaardvark]

@Bernard: as mudkip suggested, i extended that yard line so that it became the outer loop to the layout. i have thought about placing some extra turnouts on this loop that are connected to a spur that simply runs off the edge of the layout for modular purposes, but im seeing, even right now, that this layout does not really fit into my grander scheme of things; it literally serves as practice for future layouts, but still has enough in it i can enjoy its roundy-rounder-ness of it. :) so, i'll save modularity for later down the line, though i probably will still add the spurs just to keep the option open.

fortunately (or unfortunately) i was passed down a Ford Expedition that could hold a theoretical (WxLxH) 4x6x3ft container with some extra space to its side, so the 3x6x2ft layout should easily be transportable in my vehicle.

@mudkip: i did consider curved stations while desperately trying to fit an 7-car-and-loco station. having a curved island station comes out a bit too short, and having platforms flank the rails causes one side to have a perfectly sized station, and then the other side to be considerably shorter than the train. it was a losing battle... ;_; even if i could get a curved island station in, i dont think i have the modeling confidence to make a proper, believable curved platform. (if there are commercial kits out there for curved platforms... then perhaps...)

[CaptOblivious]

qwerty,

I would put the station in. My layout only has a 3-car platform, but I run 8-car trains as often as I run 1-car mules. Even if it looks a little funny, it is nice to have a station so I can play at passenger operations (that is, practicing starting smoothly and stopping at just the right spot!). I say throw the station in, and to heck if the longer trains don't quite look right. Take it as an excuse to find a shorter train that you enjoy to run on occasion too.

[qwertyaardvark]

@Capt: *chuckle* i guess i would also be guilty of running trains longer than my available stations before on my floor layouts, so perhaps it wont be so bad. i still feel torn, but i still plan to purchase the rural platform kit and i'll give this idea some more thought :)

[Mudkip Orange]

@Capt: *chuckle* i guess i would also be guilty of running trains longer than my available stations before on my floor layouts, so perhaps it wont be so bad. i still feel torn, but i still plan to purchase the rural platform kit and i'll give this idea some more thought :)

On the Izukyu line, some of the local stations can only accomodate 4- or 7-car trains, but the track is used by the Odoriko (8 cars) and the Super View Odoriko (10 cars).

The same sort of arrangement exists on other private railways, although it's much less common on the JR system.

Closer to home, the Pennsylvania Railroad ran multiple trains of 10, 12, or 13 cars in length over tracks with commuter platforms designed for 6-car EMUs. A lot of these services are still operated by Amtrak, but the trains are shorter now.

[qwertyaardvark]

While waiting for christmas and birthday funds to kick in, lots of kit/material purchase research has been going on, and the following is what i've come up with. The final buying list will probably be a whittled-down version of this and most purchases will be after new year's, while more important purchases will be sought after soon. Table contains source of kit/matl, title/qty, price, and s&h. Note: s&h are only (Ebay) upper bound limits, most likely combined shipping will be taken advantage of. :)

Hit-Japan	| Kato Traditional Eaves Restaurant 450B	| 18.79	| 8.50
Hit-Japan	| Tomytec 5-story Pagoda	| 34.67	| 7.50
Hit-Japan	| Tomytec Cherry Tree (x2)	| 5.79	| 4.50
Hit-Japan	| Tomytec Bamboo Tree (several)	| 5.24	| 4.00
Hit-Japan	| Greenmax Tunnel Entrance 14-2	| 6.39	| 6.50
Hit-Japan	| Greenmax Tunnel Entrance 14-1	| 6.49	| 6.50
Hobby Search	| Tomytec Belfry/Gate	| 24.86	| uknwn
Hobby Search	| Tomytec Temple Main Building	| 24.86	| uknwn
Hobby Search	| Tomytec Farmhouse	| 8.95	| uknwn
Ace of Bicycle	| Kato Single Catenary	| 4.59	| 4.80
Ace of Bicycle	| Kato Double Catenary	| 4.59	| 4.80
Ace of Bicycle	| Kato Girder Bridge	| 7.39	| 4.80
Plaza Japan	| Greenmax Shops 47-1	| 18.80	| 8.80
Plaza Japan	| Greenmax Shops 47-2	| 18.80	| 8.80
Plaza Japan	| Greenmax Shops 47-3	| 16.70	| 8.80
Plaza Japan	| Greenmax Shops 47-6	| 16.80	| 8.80
Plaza Japan	| Tomytec Grade Crossing (x2)	| 6.80	| 4.80
Plaza Japan	| Tomytec Farmhouse D2	| 10.50	| 6.80
Plaza Japan	| Tomytec Public Bath	| 10.80	| 6.80
Plaza Japan	| Tomytec Ryokan	| 10.80	| 6.80
Plaza Japan	| Kato Traditional Eaves Shop 450A	| 18.50	| 6.80
Plaza Japan	| Kato Traditional Eaves Restaurant 451B	| 18.50	| 6.80
Don6233	| Kato Rural Station	| 44.95	| 9.95
Don6233	| Kato Rural Platform	| 59.95	| 9.95
Don6233	| Kato Rural Platform Extension	| 17.95	| 9.95
My_Atomic	| Peco RH Electrofrog #8 (several)	| 17.89	| 4.25
My_Atomic	| Peco LH Electrofrog #8 (several)	| 17.89	| 4.25
Lin's Junction	| Peco Flextrack Code 80 w/ concrete ties 25 pack	| 103.50	| incl
Model Train Stuff	| Midwest N Scale Cork Roadbed (several)	| 14.99	| 9.02

note to self: Hobby search, Lin's Junction, and Model Train Stuff are non-ebay outlets

Also, as far as tools go, recommended-by-hobby-shop-person (Hobby Town USA = my atlanta LHS) compressors w/o tank seem to run anywhere from $100-160 and airbrushes starting from $20 (extremely basic).

[qwertyaardvark]

@Mudkip: thanks for the info! something i would not have expected; i was under the impression the railroads in general only ran trains that could fit all the stations of a line. i guess that's not the case! i feel much better now knowing the prototypes do this, and now i can sleep at night with my short-platformed layout design  *goes redraws stations into layout drawing*

[Mudkip Orange]

IIRC the old South Ferry Loop terminal on New York's IRT subway (the 1 and 9 trains) only accommodated five cars. If you were in one of the trailing three you got sent back up Broadway.

[Bernard]

Really good price on the Peco track & switches. I compared them to MB Kleins and the place you're ordering from is slightly less. Since you are going to use flex track I recommend you get cork roadbed. I like Midwest products:http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/mid-3019.htm
Are you going to use switch machines on your turnouts or go manuel?
I don't know if WS supplied their brand of roadbed but I've used it and it's a light foam which I don't like because it isn't easy to work with on radii. Also you will need a good soldering iron for rail joins and feeder wires to the track.
Here is another place to look at for airbrushes and supplies, Dixie Art Supplies: http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/mid-3019.htm

[qwertyaardvark]

@Mudkip: interesting... my imaginary railroading world, where all stations are long enough to accommodate the trains that run through them, continues to crumble a la 2012 the movie...  ^^;;

@Bernard: For turnouts, i plan to just go the manual route, using some caboose industries ground throws. As far as roadbed material goes, WS does indeed sell their brand of roadbed, but I did not like the foam roadbed that came with the kit as I also found it hard to curve, so I will most likely toss it and stick with the traditional cork. And thanks for the link! I think i just found my new supplier of cork roadbed   Poor LHS... (LHS: 1. Internet: too many times to count) Looks like the only things i'll be buying from them are WS kits/materials and airbrush hardware/paints, if only for sheer convenience...

[Bernard]

If you are going the manual route with the turnouts, wait on the caboose industry ground throws. The Peco switches are great but they have a spring in them that gives a tight fit to the outside rail plus there isn't a rod for the ground throw to connect into.
If you still want to experiment with a ground throw you're probably going to have to remove the spring.

[qwertyaardvark]

If you are going the manual route with the turnouts, wait on the caboose industry ground throws.

note taken! out of curiosity, would it be too much trouble if i did want to go the ground throw route? this spring-removing, rod-adding stuff sounds like there might be more to this story to this Peco track than i thought, especially since ive never touched anything other than Unitrack. 

[Bernard]

The Atlas switch has a side rod that attaches to their side switch machine. Caboose Industries made a ground throw (a very nice one too) that you can attach to that side rod that has a hole in it. The Peco switch (which in my opinion is superior to the Atlas) uses an switch machine that attaches underneath and there is smaller side rod with no hole but I don't think it will work with the Caboose ground throw.
Here is a link to the Caboose ground throw and in the photo you can see the pin that fits into the hole on the Atlas switch rod:
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/cab-206s.htm

[qwertyaardvark]

This post will be Bill of Materials for this project and will be updated as purchases are made; this is intended for me as a reference of what future layouts may cost. Tools and other products purchased that can be used from layout to layout will be listed, and included in the grand total. Listed are date of purchase, places of purchase, product purchased, and tax/shipping costs of product.

Use of "^" will point to tax/shipping cost for bundle-bought items.
Use of parenthesis indicate products' price not at all related to the layout but bought along with material/tools that will be used on the layout; this is done to recognize bundling of layout related purchases with layout non-related purchases. Prices surrounded by parenthesis will not included in the grand total, but shipping prices will be left as is, and reader should take shipping bundling in mind while reading the shipping column.

2009-12-07	| Hobbytown USA	| Scenic Ridge	| 219.99	| 13.19
2009-12-14	| Papa Ben's Train Place	| Kato Track Planning Template	| 24.98	| 2.06
2009-12-20	| Papa Ben's Train Place	| WS Plaster Cloth 10 sq. ft	| 8.99	| 5.01
2009-12-20	| Papa Ben's Train Place	| WS Realistic Water	| 19.99	| ^
2009-12-20	| Papa Ben's Train Place	| WS Field Grass Medium Green	| 3.79	| ^
2009-12-20	| Papa Ben's Train Place	| WS Incline set, 4% grade	| 13.99	| ^
2009-12-20	| Papa Ben's Train Place	| WS Incline set, 4% grade	| 13.99	| ^
2009-12-20	| Fry's Electronics	| Tech Tron Heat Shrink Tubing 1/16"	| 1.09	| 0.27
2009-12-20	| Fry's Electronics	| Tech Tron Heat Shrink Tubing 1/16"	| 1.09	| ^
2009-12-20	| Fry's Electronics	| Tech Tron Heat Shrink Tubing 1/16"	| 1.09	| ^
2009-12-23	| takehiko0291 (Ebay)	| Tomix 8835 526 Type Add-on car	| (21.70)	| (11.28)
2009-12-23	| ace_of_bicycle (Ebay)	| Kato Catenary (Single) Qty. 2	| 9.39	| 30.00
2009-12-23	| ace_of_bicycle (Ebay)	| Kato Catenary (Double) Qty. 2	| 9.39	| ^
2009-12-23	| ace_of_bicycle (Ebay)	| Kato 186mm Single Girder Bridge	| 12.19	| ^
2009-12-23	| ace_of_bicycle (Ebay)	| Tomix 8835 526 Type Add-on Car	| (41.99)	| ^
2009-12-23	| ace_of_bicycle (Ebay)	| Tomix 8835 526 Type Add-on Car	| (41.99)	| ^
2009-12-26	| Hobby Lobby	| Model Master Sublime Green spray paint	| 5.49	| 1.32
2009-12-26	| Hobby Lobby	| Testors All purpose Dullcote spray paint	| 4.49	| ^
2009-12-26	| Hobby Lobby	| Createx Airbrush Colors Dark Brown	| 3.99	| ^
2009-12-26	| Hobby Lobby	| Testors Paint Brushes 8706	| 1.99	| ^
2010-01-03	| don6233 (Ebay)	| Kato Rural Station	| 54.90	| 14.95
2010-01-03	| don6233 (Ebay)	| Kato Rural Platform	| 72.90	| ^
2010-01-03	| don6233 (Ebay)	| Kato Rural Platform Extension	| 27.90	| ^
2010-01-03	| Lin's Junction	| 25-Piece Peco Code 80 Flex Track, Concrete Ties	| 94.50	| 9.00
2010-01-03	| Model Train Stuff	| 25-Piece Midwest N-scale Cork Roadbed	| 14.99	| 8.97
2009-12-27	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Tomix 2862 315 Type Add-on	| n/a	| (n/a)
2009-12-28	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Tomix 8511 OHANE 25-1000 Add-on	| (n/a)	| ^
2009-12-29	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Greenmax Concerete Wall C, Qty. 6	| n/a	| ^
2010-01-03	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Tomix 8509 OHANEFU 25-100 Add-on	| (n/a)	| ^
2010-01-03	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Tomix 2863 326-500 Type Add-on w/ Motor	| (n/a)	| ^
2010-01-04	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Tomix 8509 OHANEFU 25-100 Add-on	| n/a	| ^
2010-01-08	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Greenmax Stone Wall A	| n/a	| ^
2010-01-09	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Greenmax Stone Wall A	| n/a	| ^
2010-01-11	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Tomix 8510 OHANE 25-100 Add-on, Qty. 2	| n/a	| ^
2010-01-16	| Shopping Mall Japan	| Tomix 8510 OHANE 25-100 Add-on	| n/a	| ^
2010-01-08	| My Atomic Hobby Shop	| Atlas Terminal Joiners, Qty. 5	| 11.90	| 0.00
2010-01-08	| My Atomic Hobby Shop	| Atlas Insulated Joiners, Qty. 24	| 1.11	| ^
2010-01-08	| My Atomic Hobby Shop	| Atlas Rail Joiners, Qty. 48	| 2.49	| ^
2010-01-08	| My Atomic Hobby Shop	| Atlas Rerailer, Qty. 3	| 2.49	| ^
2010-01-08	| My Atomic Hobby Shop	| Peco Code 80/55 Concrete Track Ties (24)	| 1.49	| ^
2010-01-08	| My Atomic Hobby Shop	| Xuron Railroader's Tool Kit	| 37.89	| ^
2010-01-12	| Home Depot	| Furniture No-slip Rubber Feet, Qty. 8	| 5.38	| 1.86
2010-01-12	| Home Depot	| DIY Shims, Pack of 8	| 1.35	| ^
2010-01-12	| Home Depot	| 3/4" Plywood	| 16.58	| ^
2010-01-15	| Marathon Gas Station	| D size Batteries, Pack of 2	| 3.99	| .32
2010-01-15	| Sam Flax	| Heavy Black Card Stock 15"x20"	| 1.66	| 1.03
2010-01-15	| Sam Flax	| Packing Tape	| 1.39	| ^
2010-01-15	| Sam Flax	| Xacto Knife #1	| 2.58	| ^
2010-01-15	| Sam Flax	| Retractable Hobby Knife w/ Snap-off Blades	| 5.22	| ^
2010-01-15	| Sam Flax	| Xacto Blade #11, Pack of 5	| 2.02	| ^
2010-01-15	| Walmart	| Multi-temp Hot Glue Gun	| 10.97	| 2.23
2010-01-15	| Walmart	| Full-size 4" glue Sticks, Pack of 50	| 5.17	| ^
2010-01-15	| Walmart	| Toothpicks, Pack of 250	| 0.52	| ^
2010-01-15	| Walmart	| 15' Extension Cord	| 2.97	| ^
2010-01-15	| Walmart	| Lasagna Pan	| 1.97	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| Tamiya Acrylic Flat Dark Grey	| 2.30	| 4.68
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| Tamiya Acrylic Flat Red	| 2.30	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| Kato Rerailer, Qty. 2	| 2.98	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| Tamiya Acrylic Paint Thinner	| 8.00	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| Kato R249-45, Pack of 4	| 8.50	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| N/HO DC Extension Cord	| 6.98	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| WS Field Grass - Medium Green	| 3.79	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| Badger Model 250 Basic Spray Gun Set	| 30.99	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| KAto R282-45, Pack of 4	| 8.99	| ^
2010-01-16	| Hobbytown USA	| Model Masters Pipettes	| 4.79	| ^
2010-01-17	| Hobbytown USA	| WS Dark Gray Ballast w/ shaker, 32 oz.	| 10.99	| .84
2010-01-17	| Hobbytown USA	| Model Masters Deck Green, 0.5 oz.	| 2.99	| ^
2010-01-23	| Hobbytown USA	| Taklon Ultra Mini Brush #5	| 2.49	| 1.00
2010-01-23	| Hobbytown USA	| Bright Boy Track Eraser	| 6.98	| ^
2010-01-23	| Hobbytown USA	| Black Poster Paint Bottle, 8 oz.	| 1.49	| ^
2010-01-23	| Hobbytown USA	| Testors Plastic Cement, 1 oz.	| 3.29	| ^
2010-01-23	| Hobbytown USA	| Large 1" wide Brush	| 2.39	| ^
2010-01-23	| Marathon Gas Station	| Bottle of 70% Isopropyl Alcohol, 16 oz.	| 1.59	| 0.12
2010-01-30	| Hobbytown USA	| Tamiya Acrylic Flat Red	| 2.30	| .69
2010-01-30	| Hobbytown USA	| Kato 186mm Single Girder Bridge	| 9.25	| ^
2010-01-31	| Home Depot	| 1/2" 4x8' Insulation Foam Board	| 9.93	| .79
2010-01-31	| Wal-Mart	| Electrical Tape	| 1.47	| 0.20
2010-01-31	| Wal-Mart	| Masking Tape	| 0.97	| ^
2010-02-05	| Hobbytown USA	| Atlas Terminal Joiner	| 3.50	| 0.30
2010-02-05	| Hobbytown USA	| Black Poster Paint Bottle, 8 oz.	| 1.49	| ^
2010-02-07	| Hobbytown USA	| Rix Products N-scale 50' Modern Highway Overpass w/ Pier	| 13.95	| 1.68
2010-02-07	| Hobbytown USA	| Rix Products N-scale 50' Modern Overpass	| 7.99	| ^
2010-02-07	| Hobbytown USA	| Rix Products N-scale Highway Pier	| 5.99	| ^
	|	|	|	|

Grand running total: 892.47 USD

[Mudkip Orange]

Hey qwerty, if you're in the 713 check out Spring Crossing Model Trains on FM2920 (Spring-Cypress Road) just east of 45.

He only takes cash but his prices are as low/lower than most of the "discount" online hobby shops. On Kato track alone you're looking at about 30% off MSRP. Then again Spring Crossing doesn't have the awesome Chinese buffet next door like Papa Ben's does.

[qwertyaardvark]

So, I got bored of just staring/wanting/drooling at trains on the internet, so i went out to the hobby shop to buy some things to play with, namely some WS plaster cloth, field grass, realistic water, and heat shrink tubing to play around with until i can get to working on my actual layout when i return to it in January. Now what might i be doing with said materials? I thought i might as well practice this rice paddy thingy, since i'll be placing quite a few of these things on my layout.

Now, I did read the WS version of how to put blades of grass, and frankly i dont trust it. I don't feel like holding little bundles of grass until the scenic cement dries. Bump that. So, i decided to come up with a process that will allow me to make rice-plant "modules" that i can place into holes i make in my layout. At roughly a little over a minute to make just one, and the estimated hundreds i'll need to make, i figure i can save this tedious task for breaks between classes, etc. and put them all into a little bag for me to place on a layout later.

So far, the process goes along this:
1) take field grass
2) fold it in half
3) insert into a 1/2 inch piece of heat shrink tubing
4) shrink the tubing with heat
5) trim the heat shrink tubing to about 1/4 inch, trim the grass to 1/2 inch past the tubing
6) smash the grass on table top so the individual stems of grass go outward a bit --> first pic is the end result up to this step
7) make a hole where you want to place the blade of grass
8) place rice plant module into hole --> right side of second pic
9) pour realistic water around the rice plant making sure that the scenic water only touches the base of the module
10) Done! ... or so i thought --> left side second pic of the end result

Unfortunately, this realistic water (which runs awfully fast like real water; putting this on uneven surfaces must be a pain), also seems to have the capillary action and hydrogen bonding of water and undoes the spreading i worked to achieve. Any thoughts/comments are welcome as I plan to keep working on this. First, solving the problem of keeping the stems apart, and then finding ways to paint the grass a bright lush green b/c the current color offerings by WS are few and unsatisfactory for my purpose. Definitely looking for an alternate material to use, but haven't found/can't think of anything else to use. There were some "farm field" sheets made in japan, but they weren't quite what i was hoping for. For now, i'll stick with the field grass. After solving the problems, I'll find way to mass produce these little suckers. yay my inner mechanical engineer wanting to mechanize everything~~

[qwertyaardvark]

Hey qwerty, if you're in the 713 check out Spring Crossing Model Trains on FM2920 (Spring-Cypress Road) just east of 45.

He only takes cash but his prices are as low/lower than most of the "discount" online hobby shops. On Kato track alone you're looking at about 30% off MSRP. Then again Spring Crossing doesn't have the awesome Chinese buffet next door like Papa Ben's does.

o0o0o0o... I will have to check this place out. Despite the fact i live in the southwest suburbs and the trip taking an hour one way, I definitely think it'd be worth it! anything for model trains! thanks for the tip! ^_^ Do you live in the Houston area?

[Mudkip Orange]

University of Screwston baby, Cullen Boulevard is where we ride 26s and sip that purple stuff.

[qwertyaardvark]

University of Screwston baby, Cullen Boulevard is where we ride 26s and sip that purple stuff.

lol~ sippin' the purple stuff~~ mmm delicious~~

[qwertyaardvark]

As i haven't posted any sort of track plan yet, here it is. Not too terribly different than what mudkip posted earlier, just drawn with the Kato track template; drawn to scale to make sure everything fits. The red '1' indicates where i will use double width tunnels and the '2' indicates where single width tunnels will be used. Buildings haven't been placed on yet since i plan on not using the bases provided and so the space they'll take up will depend on what custom sized lot i give them.

I figure there will be some modifications as soon as get a chance to physically fiddle with flex track and buildings later in January. I may reduce the radii on drawing by another 33+mm (minimum radius would still be a comfortable 11.1") and move the figure-8 portion farther away from the station to allow 1) a proper depth rock-face on the left side and 2) continue my attempts to lengthen the station, though i am okay with it being shorter than the trains i plan on running.

[disturbman]

Great thread! Love to see (read about) your progress.

Seing your shoping list I was thinking, maybe you should give Sankei's building kit a try. They are not plastic but they are great cardboard models. It's a nice change. I really like the end result and I think that, if I could, I would just build those instead of enjoying myself with the hassle involved with painting those damn plain plastic kits.

[qwertyaardvark]

Seing your shoping list I was thinking, maybe you should give Sankei's building kit a try.

I did notice the paper kits while i was shopping and admittedly my first reaction was "oh... must be flat and have no texture", but upon repeatedly seeing said paper kits and looking at examples of completed buildings, I must say their presentation must be growing on me; looks like they can hold their own against plastic models or they are simply awesome to look at through the camera lens. I guess I'll go ahead and buy a few of them when i make my order with hobby search later this january. Thanks for the idea~ 

[disturbman]

You're welcome and, in fact, I think they have a bit more texture and detailing than the plastic ones. But you really to think things through when you build them.

[Mudkip Orange]

Nice job squeezing it all in. I'd consider decreasing the minimum radius on the inside to 282mm - as it is you're going to have a lot of vertical concrete walls! Then again urban Japanese railroading is full of vertical concrete walls so it all depends on what you're goin' for.

You've probably read this elsewhere but definitely test-fit your track when you lay it all out *before* you start gluing down the Woodland Scenics inclines...

[qwertyaardvark]

Nice job squeezing it all in. I'd consider decreasing the minimum radius on the inside to 282mm - as it is you're going to have a lot of vertical concrete walls! Then again urban Japanese railroading is full of vertical concrete walls so it all depends on what you're goin' for.

I do plan on shrinking the figure-8 portion to allow for more believable walls/rock faces, namely concrete reinforcement walls or similar at an angle roughly 60 degrees from the horizontal. Probably will go about this with smaller radii and taking off the straight pieces on the ends of the '8'.

You've probably read this elsewhere but definitely test-fit your track when you lay it all out *before* you start gluing down the Woodland Scenics inclines...

Measure once, cut twice! 

[qwertyaardvark]

So my experimentation with rice fields continues...

For starters, I'm was beginning to doubt the feasibility of this particular decoration to my layout, but i guess at the end of the day, i figure what's to modeling if not for the challenges and stepping up to solving them; No pain, no gain, I suppose. With that being said, i'm almost entirely sure this decoration, for sure to be a painfully long tiring endeavor, will either end up well or end poorly. I'm hoping for the former. :)

Finally got around to visiting Hobby Lobby to get some paint to play around with the few rice plant modules that i made and below are some results with, not an airbush, but a simple aerosol can paint. I will retest this procedure proper once I have acquired an airbrush when I return to Atlanta in mid-Jan. Paints used were Model Master No. 28117 Sublime Green (aerosol can) and Createx Airbrush colors Dark Brown (applied with a normal brush).

In the first picture, you get a good close up of the individual modules on scrap foam they were painted upon. One of my first concerns is the fact that small drops of paint accumulate on the individual stems, which I dont want the paint to do. I did expect this to happen as I was using a spray can to apply paint and, relatively to airbrushes, applies paint in a very thick fashion. Any attempts to rub the paint down caused the stems to clump together. While my hopes are that the airbrush keeps this to a minimum, the paint did do its job of acting as a shell that (for the modules i did not try to touch) gave the stems some stiffness and kept the stems in a spread out fashion.

In the second picture, you see the modules planted into a small mound in a small test rice field made from some scrap foam pieces and covered with some WS plaster cloth (one layer only). I simply punctured the surface with some precision screw drivers to poke thru the plaster. I noted that the plaster was fairly easy to puncture so I'm sure the standard two-layer plaster cloth called for by WS will not be a problem when i get to my drill bit set and dremel, which are also in Atlanta.  I also noted to myself to ensure in the future that the module be pushed far enough so that the heat-shrink tube is no longer visible.

In the third picture, you see a wider view of the modules in the test rice field and the first layer of WS Realistic water that I have added. Seeing how the instructions say that you shouldnt do more than 1/8" depth at a time, raising the modules will only serve to waste more Realistic Water than i'd like. So the mound I made for modules will now become the walls to the rice paddy and the modules will placed directly onto the layout. Upon building more layers of Realistic Water sometime tomorrow, I will see for sure that the paint holds the spread-out shape of the rice plant modules.

Also, looking at the rice plants, it dawned upon me to find out what the heights of real rice plants are and what I've made. The ones I'm showing you are a bit too tall, since they come out to 5' n-scale tall when they tend to only reach about 4' tall. Plus, that's the height when the rice plants are fully mature and have leaves, something this field grass doesn't model well. With the field grass, I probably would be forced to model younger rice plants that's not much more than 2' tall. Will definitely look further into rice plant growth as well as rice planting techniques, to get details like row spacing, plant spacing within rows, irrigation, etc. for a more realistic looking rice paddy.

The closest to finding someone else doing what i'm hoping to acheive is here. I'm curious as to what he uses, but just scanning the post, it doesnt mention what material/procedure he uses.

[Bernard]

That was an interesting link you found on the Rice paddys and it looks like you are on a roll with yours. WS water is very expensive in my opinion and tried using other methods to offset the cost, but so far the WS water has the best results.

[qwertyaardvark]

Thanks Bernard! ^_^

Attached photo is the final result of the test rice paddy.

Progress on the test rice paddy though is going slowly as I'm finding the realistic water is not liking the cold and, by my own fault, having been poured a little over the 1/8" recommends depth. Despite some slow curing, I've gone as far as placing a third layer and the water surface has finally reached the bottoms of the rice plants. Fortunately, the modules appear to holding their fanned-out shape. The realistic water did manage to climb up the stems and pull them inward a bit, but the mishap is minimal the realistic water climbs to no more than 1/4" above the water surface.

So, for my purposes, paint sufficiently applied on the WS Field Grass is enough to keep the grass from being consumed by the Realistic Water and I get to have my, at least in my opinion, satisfactory looking rice plants. Based on the test rice paddy, I plan to space the rice modules along a row about 3/8" to 5/16" apart, and placing the rows roughly 1/2" apart. After making and painting at least 100 of said modules, they will be stored on plain insulated foam with the aforementioned spacing to ensure it looks right and any final adjustments in spacing will be made on the layout itself.

As far as the Realistic Water goes, I'm fairly happy with it since the rice field reference pictures I have looked at always have still, flat water in them. I haven't decide whether I will model the water as clear or murky, as I have seen examples of both. Experiments on what shade of brown to use on bottom of rice paddy, adding a murky look to the water, etc. will be continued upon my return to Atlanta next week. Does anyone have any advice for modeling murky water?

Update on rest of layout: Purchases on major components of the layout have been made. In the mail are 25-piece box of cork, 25-piece box of Peco Code 80 concrete tie flex track, rural station, rural platform and rural platform extension set, Kato girder bridge, Kato pantographs for double and single track, Greenmax concrete retaining wall sheets, and other non-layout related stuff (completed my 16-car 500 shinkansen, now needing Tomix 2864 for completing 16-car 300 shinkansen, and now only needing five OHANE 25-100 for my 15-car Hayabusa/Fuji 24 Series 25 Type Blue train). Further purchases of layout buildings, scenery, accessories will be considered being made as soon as next week, though no later than late January.

[Bernard]

The best thing about WS Realistic water is that it add a thickness (I just don't like the cost )
As for Murky water I'm going to let other members advice you on that one.

There is one thing I see in your order that you are using the Kato Bridges with Peco flex track. That is exactly what I did on my layout. It is very easy to attack the 2 different tracks and you have 2 choices. First choice is to remove the Kato snap together rail joiners and replace them with standard joiners, which is what I did.
Or choice number 2, get a Kato Conversion track that has snap joiners on one end and standard joiners on the other: http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KAT-20045&CartID=2
But either way is very simple.

[qwertyaardvark]

@Bernard - I was wondering, and I have no idea if this was/is/will be prototypical, but I was planning on going a bit rogue and (carefully) tearing out the track on the bridge and replacing it with the Peco track running through bridge. My reasoning for this is continuity; I didn't want concrete ties everywhere and then sudden transition to wooden ties. I also realize this may be a very rash decision, especially since i havent taken a good look at how the track is placed on the bridge, but if it is indeed too difficult, then I'll prolly with the first option you gave me, and remove the unijoiners and add the standard joiners.

[Bernard]

There are a couple of options you can do. I believe Peco makes flex track with concrete ties also check and see if the Kato bridges offer you the option of wooden or concrete ties. Or Walthers makes a single track bridge that you have to build:http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/933-3820.htm
Personally I like the kato bridges. They look great and you'll have no problems with them.

[Mudkip Orange]

A lot of modern rail systems with use concrete ties for straight track and "bathtub bridges" (troughs filled with ballast), but use wood ties for other types of bridges, switches, and other pieces of track that are subject to additional stress/flexure.

For instance if you're still in Houston you can drive over to the Metrorail service facility off Fannin just south of 610... concrete ties everywhere except switches, which are wood.

Alternately if you check out the Northeast Corridor you'll find lots of concrete ties, on the ballasted track, but ALWAYS wood on the oldschool truss and deck girder bridges.

[qwertyaardvark]

Personally I like the kato bridges. They look great and you'll have no problems with them.

A lot of modern rail systems with use concrete ties for straight track and "bathtub bridges" (troughs filled with ballast), but use wood ties for other types of bridges, switches, and other pieces of track that are subject to additional stress/flexure.

I suppose I would be lying if I said that I didnt notice that nearly all train bridges ive seen used wooden ties (only in a few reference photos have i seen rail bolted what looks to be directly to the bridge) so perhaps I'll just stick with what most prototypes do and keep the Kato wooden ties that come with the girder bridge. Thanks for yall's opinions and observations :)

[Bernard]

After reading Mudkip's post about wooden and concrete ties I realized I should have known better. They been re-doing the rails on the LIRR and that is exactly what they look like, a mixture of both ties. I see this everyday in my commute.

[qwertyaardvark]

Update: Return to Atlanta!!

Now that I am finally back in Atlanta I can finally begin work on my layout. I got in around Sunday, and have been busy ever since with the start of classes and rearranging my room (including building a loft of my and a roommate's bed) and, at last, I have no class on Friday and a holiday on Monday, giving me a full four days to get started on the layout! *much happiness* Since arriving, alot of the stuff I have ordered over the christmas/new year's holiday have arrived. A lot of the items are for the early stages of the layout, such as track, joiners, wiring, track cutters.

Tonight I intend to prep the 3'x6' board i got from Home Depot by adding some rubber feet and laying on the first pieces of foam foundation for the layout. Tomorrow, I will begin to draw in the track plan and add the foam risers. If all goes well, plaster will be added to the risers, and cork roadbed and track will be laid. This is about as far as I think I will make it for the weekend since it sounds like a reasonable amount of time and I'm betting there will be kinks to work out that im not expecting since im completely new to this.

Pictures will be taken every step of the way and will be posted, hopefully, sometime around Monday night when I hope to finish laying the track.

Beginning this weekend, I'll either forever be a fan of model railroading or forever be afraid of it. Wish me luck. ^^;;

[Bernard]

You'll have fun with it and take your time with it, don't rush. In most cases you can always fix any mistakes that you might (and I said might) make. 

[qwertyaardvark]

Having reached the beginning of the ballasting step, I now know why several of yall hate ballasting... 

Needless to say, I have been enthusiastically working on my layout in hopes of getting it completed before class workloads really starts eating up my time (around late March thru early May). I have completed laying track that will be hidden by the tunnel and have begun to ballast said track. Despite instructions saying to ballast only several inches around the tunnel entrances, I've decide to ballast all the track just as practice, and very glad I did as I've found several tricks aiding me to put down some satisfactory ballast. Unfortunately, I have not received my Greenmax tunnel entrances (by my own fault; I didnt buy them >_<), so those will come in around next or next next week. So any work on tunnel building, and consequently the layout, will be put on hold as soon as i finish ballasting.

Until the tunnel entrances come in focus will shift to the rural station bldg., platform, and platform extension that I have in my possession. This week will be geared towards learning and honing techniques related to airbrushing. I recently bought a very simple single-action Badger beginner's airbrush that will primarily be used (or rather can only be used) for coating or non-detail stuff. (i.e. killing the plastic shine off the kits). Work on the rice plant modules may also be continued as time allows.

And now, an ungodly amount of pictures!
183 - 3'x6' 3/4" board bought and cut at Homedepot
184 - Rubber feet added to the underside
186 - Detail of the attached rubber feet
187 - Styrofoam base (included with kit) added. plans on styrofoam ignored
189 - Using Unitrack and Kato re-railer/spacing guide, drew in my own plan on the styrofoam
194 - Risers being added. Blue border along the front shows where one side of station platform will go; will accommodate 6 blue train cars + 1 EF65
200 - Because i had two tracks running on one riser width, and said two tracks changed height differently than the other, I needed-half size risers. Before
201 - After

[qwertyaardvark]

198 - Method: pushing the riser's through wire foam cutter held at half-width height
203 - Example of half-width piece being used
207 - Used along the back side of the layout; being prepped for hot glue gun attachment to layout
208 - End of half-width incline
213 - Checking clearance of passenger car in trench
215 - Finished adding risers. Back view
216 - Front view
217 - Checking clearances

[qwertyaardvark]

219 - Side view of back end of layout
229 - Plastering of risers that will covered by mountain
232 - Roadbed placed on plastered risers
234 - Inside-mountain intersection detail
241 - Track added (pictured drying w/ foam nails holding them down)
246 - ballasting, top view. I've found it easiest to do the center first, glue, let it dry and then work on the flanks.
247 - ballasting, angled view

[Bernard]

Wow, you did a lot in a short amount of time!!
I really like the look of the Peco track w/concrete ties. How did you like using the WS foam roadbed? I used it on a diorama and wasn't wild about it because of how it bends in curves but yours looks very good. You're going to find that when you apply the ballast with white glue, it is going to hold the track in place solidly.
I look forward to your next update!

[qwertyaardvark]

@Bernard: Having 4 solid days to work on a layout does wonders! 

As far as the WS foam roadbed goes, I too wasn't too impressed with it at first because of the same reason that it didn't curve well, but back then I also didnt realize there was a slight perforation in middle of the road bed that would aid me in splitting it in half just like cork and to curve it as easily as cork. After that, the tipping point of switching from the cork to foam roadbed was simply the cleanliness of the tapers on the sides. The cork had very rough tapers and in some part the tapers wasn't apparent. The foam was very cleanly cut and, as other railroaders say, "provided a clean ballast profile". As far as sound goes, I can't tell a difference between the two (comparing my layout and an in-store LHS layout).

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the foam roadbed. For future purposes, I would use the foam for mainline/branch purposes for neatness factor, and when ballast profile doesnt count, like in stations or yards, then I'll use the cork instead.

[Bernard]

What I like about the cork roadbed is that there is weight to it, the WS roadbeds are very lite. The weight really helps when splitting the cork when forming a curve.

[Mudkip Orange]

One of the things I do like about cork is that it's halfway decent looking without ballast. The WS is all shiny, so it really doesn't look right unless you ballast the whole thing.

One of the things I DON'T like about cork is the way little bits break off and create a bunch of dust and debris. The WS stuff is smooth, chunks don't fall off randomly.