Track Planning

[cteno4]

few months back i started fiddling with some ideas for a small tram layout. was thinking something small and portable, an urban street scene and not few like a loop if i could. double tracking would be nice, but would require more room so i settled on single track and a folded figure 8 to mix things up. basically gives me three blocks of buildings and a odd maybe park scene with a diagonal cut off. for now i have put it aside, but it keeps calling me... too many projects too little time!

cheers

jeff

[Concept Model Trains]

Insert Quote
few months back i started fiddling with some ideas for a small tram layout. was thinking something small and portable, an urban street scene and not few like a loop if i could. double tracking would be nice, but would require more room so i settled on single track and a folded figure 8 to mix things up. basically gives me three blocks of buildings and a odd maybe park scene with a diagonal cut off. for now i have put it aside, but it keeps calling me... too many projects too little time!

There are some good ideas in your layout design.  The use of three city blocks is most appealing.  It has given me so me new directions to explore! 

[cteno4]

cool, glad it stimulated some neurons! i wanted to keep it simple to one track and small, but not a loop, and use the super mini radius track to keep the streets smaller. the double track sections may be larger 4 lane streets and the single track ones only 2 lane and narrow and maybe the one shorter single track a narrow tram right of way only. the fun thing about the folded figure 8 is that the train kind of doges around the layout more unpredictably. this works better with lots of things in the way of seeing the whole track plan well on the layout so some taller buildings in the center will really help.

only problem is that on the double track section the tram runs the same direction down both tracks on that strip...

other idea would be to not connect the loop but do some corkscrewing like this with a reversing circuit! with the ru21 you could have sensors all over and have it loop or reverse! could also do texas joe's reversing system with the trains dioded so that two trams could be run on the same track with one going one direction while the other is parked in the siding, then when reversed the other tram runs in the opposite direction while the other is parked in the other siding. very cool trick.

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

I really like Jeff's track plan. At second look you can actually break it up into 4 city block areas and folded figure 8, it gives the impression that the tram will have changed direction.
What dimensions did you have in mind for the track plan? How is your RU2-1 unit working out?

[Mudkip Orange]

few months back i started fiddling with some ideas for a small tram layout. was thinking something small and portable, an urban street scene and not few like a loop if i could. double tracking would be nice, but would require more room so i settled on single track and a folded figure 8 to mix things up. basically gives me three blocks of buildings and a odd maybe park scene with a diagonal cut off. for now i have put it aside, but it keeps calling me... too many projects too little time!

cheers

jeff

Now that's a Linn Westcott plan if I ever saw one.

You ever thought about picking up this book? Or maybe this one?

[cteno4]

i think i have thumbed through the 101 plans book. should pick some up to look through for my own layouts! just no time right now! the 101 does look interesting.

cheers

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

101 is great because it's an ANCIENT book, all the plans are from the "spaghetti bowl" era of model railroading, many are from the 40s or even 30s.

Of course the "spaghetti bowl" is perfect for Japanese prototype layouts, much more so then the "single track that goes around the walls" that all the layouts in Model Railroader seem to have gone for the past 10 years.

Two things on most of the 101 trackplans you need to modify/delete for Japanese operation. The first is there is an abundance of short freight spurs. This is cool if you're modeling JNR circa 1935 but for modern Japan it doesn't work. The other thing is that almost all of the 101 plans are designed for steam-era modeling, and so they are VERY heavy on return loops. Of course Japan has probably the least proportion of return loops of any country ever, even the streetcars are double ended.

If you cut the return loops out of a Linn Westcott plan a lot of times you'll free up enough space to add another continuous-run option for EVEN MOAR spaghetti bowl goodness. Plus if you grab one of the "medium" sized layouts (say 6x12 feet) it is very easy to reduce it to a 4x8 with broad curves in N, and you can delete the "access holes" that were so common in 30's/40's track plans (replace them with shinto temples or something)

[Mudkip Orange]

Here's an example of some frankensteining I did on a Linn Westcott plan. First I scanned it and pasted into AutoCAD, scaled the image so Linn's "broad curves" (30" in HO) were set to 381mm (largest Kato singletrack size). That's the first pic.

Then I took the track and squished it together in a couple different iterations (picture two).

Eventually I got it down to a 4x8, with an extra 1x8 addon if you want a big yard to display your trains in. The yard tracks are long enough to hold a good mix of 8-car, 10-car, 12-car commuter trains. This is the third pic.

[Mudkip Orange]

I'm just gonna keep posting track plans in here and wait for the moderators to split off another thread.

Did I mention I love spaghetti bowls? This one I designed for two 4x8s, then I took out the stations to "condense" it to 6x8 and then a single 4x8.

[Mudkip Orange]

Here's some more spaghetti for a 4x8

[Mudkip Orange]

Here's a flat layout that replaces the spaghetti with extensive yardage. In this one you've chopped off the corners of a 4x8 to make a 4x10.

This one is entirely Unitrack.

[Mudkip Orange]

Another flat Unitrack layout, this one fits on two cheap Ikea desks.

It creates a makeshift spiral curve by using the 414/381mm "easement" curves with the new 282/315mm superelevated curves.

[Mudkip Orange]

Here's another Ikea/Unitrack layout, but for three desks instead of two.

This has two "reversing loops" that take a train from the outside track to the inside or vice versa, preserving two-way double track operation. With DCC you could run several trains on multiple routes this way, taking care to make sure there were no T-bone collisions at the level crossings.

[Mudkip Orange]

And here's another 3-desk layout, with the maximum amount of yard tracks that I could possibly cram in.

Basically this would be good for the modeler who wants an entire layout based on Shinagawa Yard, or perhaps someone who has jummamit's rolling stock collection but only a corner of a room to put it in.

[cteno4]

LOL there is room for 5 buildings here one in each corner!

basically a display for all your trains!

jeff

[to2leo]

And here's another 3-desk layout, with the maximum amount of yard tracks that I could possibly cram in.

Basically this would be good for the modeler who wants an entire layout based on Shinagawa Yard, or perhaps someone who has jummamit's rolling stock collection but only a corner of a room to put it in.

This one is looking like my existing layout which I am proposing to turn into 3 levels for existing 2.

Upperlevel: Viaduct portion of the double mainline, a Kato viaduct station and a terminal to fit 7-8 trains.
Mid-level: 'Ground' portion of the double mainline, a Kato Overhead suburban station and a terminal to fit 7-8 trains.
Ground level: Mostly underground on the inside portion, Unitram on the outside portion and train storage.

[Bernard]

Mudkip - Here is a request, how about some small space layout plans?

[Lawrence]

Mudkip - Here is a request, how about some small space layout plans?

Might be able to help you out here Bernard, although these are all based on USA themes, they should give food for thought, http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm#topopage

If you download Atlas' Right Track software (free download at http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm ) you can save all the layouts and play about with them to your hearts' content 

[Mudkip Orange]

Might be able to help you out here Bernard, although these are all based on USA themes, they should give food for thought, http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm#topopage

What an excellent site!

[Mudkip Orange]

Mudkip - Here is a request, how about some small space layout plans?

Is 2 1/2' by 5 1/2' small enough?

This one squeezes a folded dogbone around a doubletrack figure-8. The figure-8 has reasonable grades (3%), but to get the dogbone to work without level crossings it needs to go as steep as 5% in places. Of course with a larger layout you could reduce this... but I've found that my E531s seem to negotiate 5% grades without too much difficulty.

[westfalen]

The out of print Kato 25-012 Kato Collection of Layout Plans has lots of interesting plans for smaller layouts.

[David]

The out of print Kato 25-012 Kato Collection of Layout Plans has lots of interesting plans for smaller layouts.

A couple of the plans are on the Kato uk site. Any ideas on how to get a copy or other terms to search with (ISBN?)

[scott]

I'd like to try the opposite of a spaghetti bowl--lots of straight-line distance. I'm thinking an along-the-walls point-to-point layout in an abandoned airport terminal.... 

[Toni Babelony]

And don't forget this legendary website for track plans! http://carendt.us/

[CaptOblivious]

I'd like to try the opposite of a spaghetti bowl--lots of straight-line distance. I'm thinking an along-the-walls point-to-point layout in an abandoned airport terminal.... 

That could be really awesome. Seriously, I'd pay to see something like that (if it was well done). I imagine when I have space for a real layout that I would aim for something like that so I could fit a full-length station. Just at home, not an airport :P

[Mudkip Orange]

And don't forget this legendary website for track plans! http://carendt.us/

Sector plates annoy the !@#$% out of me. I have trains that can turn around in 486mm, no need to just run them back and forth, back and forth.

[westfalen]

The out of print Kato 25-012 Kato Collection of Layout Plans has lots of interesting plans for smaller layouts.

A couple of the plans are on the Kato uk site. Any ideas on how to get a copy or other terms to search with (ISBN?)

Can't see an ISBN number and none of the online dealers seem to have it. I got mine a year or so ago at a local hobby shop that has a lot of Japanese stuff but they only had one copy.

[David]

The out of print Kato 25-012 Kato Collection of Layout Plans has lots of interesting plans for smaller layouts.

A couple of the plans are on the Kato uk site. Any ideas on how to get a copy or other terms to search with (ISBN?)

Can't see an ISBN number and none of the online dealers seem to have it. I got mine a year or so ago at a local hobby shop that has a lot of Japanese stuff but they only had one copy.

There is supposed to be a section with track plans for Kato's double track plate system - if you have the book handy could you tell me how many pages or plans are in that section?

[scott]

That could be really awesome. Seriously, I'd pay to see something like that (if it was well done). I imagine when I have space for a real layout that I would aim for something like that so I could fit a full-length station. Just at home, not an airport :P

I really tried to do something like this, but we just wouldn't have room without emptying out the basement. Plus I bowed to the necessity of having loops when you have a kid. But eventually...

And yeah--a full-length station would be great.

[westfalen]

The out of print Kato 25-012 Kato Collection of Layout Plans has lots of interesting plans for smaller layouts.

A couple of the plans are on the Kato uk site. Any ideas on how to get a copy or other terms to search with (ISBN?)

Can't see an ISBN number and none of the online dealers seem to have it. I got mine a year or so ago at a local hobby shop that has a lot of Japanese stuff but they only had one copy.

There is supposed to be a section with track plans for Kato's double track plate system - if you have the book handy could you tell me how many pages or plans are in that section?

Just about to head off to work, but a rough count shows 14 pages with 6 plans, though one of those is just a basic oval.

[Toni Babelony]

Sector plates annoy the !@#$% out of me. I have trains that can turn around in 486mm, no need to just run them back and forth, back and forth.

True, they are a pain, but it's a must when you don't have trains that can make such turns (like I do) and want to operate in a realistic way. For me it's not interesting to watch trains chasing their tail, but to have them interact. In the end it's of course also possible to plan a layout way ahead to later connect it to a run-around loop, like you see with large-scale (O, 1, etc.) on exhibitions. It's all according to taste.

[Toni Babelony]

A track plan I thought of during class. Inspired by a plan I saw a few years ago in a booklet. Probably quite similar, but adapted for the use of TOMIX FineTrack. Maybe a good idea for me to work with, as the length of the trip is long, a time-tabled plan is possible due to point-to-point operation, enough switching-action, several settings possible, etc. etc. I'm a genius.

Also note that during one trip the train stops at at least 4 stations, which are in fact only 2. Of course fiddling with the tracks is possible and a more neat alignment will be needed in the curves. For that purpose the new 18mm and 33mm pieces are available More passing loops could be added as well, but that could make the layout look clogged.

Curves are 280mm, 317mm and 541mm. Maximum train length should be about a 3/4-car MU, a 3-car hauled train or a 7/8-car hauled freight train.

Made in RailModeller. An unregistered version, as I'd like to try the program for now. Taking screenshots are a great solution for this barrier. :3

[bill937ca]

I came across an interesting track plan in the Kato book yesterday.  Its half a figure eight with two sets of stub tracks at the other end.  The upper set has three stub tracks and the lower set two stub tracks. The track crossing is a bridge. It would work for those with limited space.

[Mudkip Orange]

Maximum train length should be about a 3/4-car MU, a 3-car hauled train or a 7/8-car hauled freight train.

...but no continuous running! WHat is this, an AMerican-prototype layout?

[Toni Babelony]

...but no continuous running! WHat is this, an AMerican-prototype layout?

It's based on a German layout I saw once in a book about small layouts. I think it was published by Alba Verlag (Alba Publishing) in the early nineties. Maybe I have it at home, maybe I once rented it from the city library, I don't remember quite well. I'll take a look at it when I'm home, as there are dozens more great ideas in that book, including the setting of a mainline crossing and terminus station on a double-tracked compressed-eight-shaped layout. Might be really interesting for those modelling urban landscapes

Also, take a look at small UK-based layouts. Those are mostly end-to-end operated.

[Mossberg]

It's based on a German layout I saw once in a book about small layouts. I think it was published by Alba Verlag (Alba Publishing) in the early nineties.

It looks very much like a layout in the book "Modellbahn gleispläne" published by Alba Verlag (first edition 1981 and current 12 edition 2008). I don't think there is an english translation of that book. But the title for the track plan is "Schnell gebaut fur langen Spielspass" ("Quickly built for long gameplay").

/Magnus M

[Mudkip Orange]

Also, take a look at small UK-based layouts. Those are mostly end-to-end operated.

Just one more reason I model Japan  :

[Toni Babelony]

It looks very much like a layout in the book "Modellbahn gleispläne" published by Alba Verlag (first edition 1981 and current 12 edition 2008). I don't think there is an english translation of that book. But the title for the track plan is "Schnell gebaut fur langen Spielspass" ("Quickly built for long gameplay").

Yes, that's probably the one. It was also translated into Dutch. I thought I owned that one, but appearantly it was rented from the local library all too often. Maybe it's available at the local model train store here, as I'm going there today to buy a shitload of fireworks (a bit of a strange place to buy firecrackers, no?).

[Mudkip Orange]

At some point in the last few months I figured out how to get XtrakCAD to do what I want it to.

12" radius, Peco medium turnouts:

[Mudkip Orange]

12" radius, Peco mediums (and larger), 4x8 cut down to 3' so you can reach across it:



This is basically the "granite gorge and northern" but with all the industrial stuff deleted in favor of Kansai-style passenger operations.

[Bernard]

Muddy - I like your designs....one question on the Kansai layout the tunnel underpass is 1'.5" to the center for access?

[The_Ghan]

Mudkip,

I'm not sure about the grades you've got planned but it looks like a pretty steep climb east for the track going under the bridge at the top left corner of the first image in order to make it to those points.

Cheers,

The_Ghan

[Mudkip Orange]

Muddy - I like your designs....one question on the Kansai layout the tunnel underpass is 1'.5" to the center for access?

Not quite sure about the question. If you're asking "how do I access the long tunnel," well... I'd just lay the entire thing with rerailer tracks, end to end.

it looks like a pretty steep climb east for the track going under the bridge at the top left corner of the first image in order to make it to those points.

There is 48" inches of track length between the two bridges, which is enough for a 4% grade assuming 2" clearance. The dead-end spur that runs off the left side of the board is steeper, since the track has to descend with the mainline until the end of the switch, then transition back to a steep enough upgrade to clear the mainline at the 2nd level.

[Mudkip Orange]

Simplified version of the above layout, for 4x6' vs. 4x8'. Still 12" rad and Peco Mediums. More of a focus on rural/suburban services.

[KenS]

That's a nice track plan.

After looking at it a bit, it feels a bit "heavy" on the track.  Have you considered hiding either or both the far left outer track or the left-to-right track immediately below the road circle in tunnels?  That might help it look more "rural".

[scott]

I'd just lay the entire thing with rerailer tracks, end to end.

Ah, the brute force approach. I like it! 

[Sir Madog]

I am not sure what to think of that plan. There is still a lot of track, and the trains seem to go everywhere but nowhere. This is the typical spaghetti bowl track plan, the favorite plan of the 1950´s and 1960´s.

OK, if you just want to watch trains circle around, not OK, if you want to go into operations or "realistic" scenery. There is one more issue - actual space requirement. If you consider a minimum of 2 ft. aisle along 3 sides of it, the footprint is 6´ by 12´ - that´s a lot of real estate. If you have that much space available, there are certainly better ways to use it.

I don´t mean to be discouraging, but a layout is always quite an investment, which needs to be well considered.

[Webskipper]

The best reverser I have used so far is the Bakatronics AAR3 with the optional Current Detector to add as many intermediate stations as you want. It is not light dependent and the braking feature doesn't seem harsh on my Kato Trams as the Circuitron.

http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=753

Basically, the Tram will run between two points. Adding in the Current Detector to an isolated section of track will allow stops inbetween those two points. The isolated ares must be a little longer than the Tram.

In the case of the Kato Unitram Tracks, the Kato Tram stops within one 124mm track because it is about the same length.  Now, when you use a longer piece of track like the Unitram Curves you get a random stop effect because the Tram starts braking the moment it enters the isolated track.

This is what I have done and the Tram looks like it is stopping in between the crosswalks for the pedestrians. It will completely stop at a different point each time so there isn't an absolute predictable point. The sucky part is that since it's DC the Tram lights turn off when stopped.

Extremely labor intensive to convert these to DCC.

[cteno4]

another great auto reverser is the minatronics RU-21. it uses optical sensors mounted in the road bed so no need to do any track isolation where you want a tram to stop, just drill a 1/8" hole between the tracks and pop in a $1 sensor between the ties. the ru21 does both auto reversing and gives you 5 stop points as well. it also provides power so no throttle needed. even has a acceleration/deceleration so not hard stops. other little tricks you can do with it as well. you can use it w/o the auto reversing and just have it go on a loop with just stops as well (perfect for unitram loops).

full thread on it is here

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,1255.0.html

cheers

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

Have you considered hiding either or both the far left outer track or the left-to-right track immediately below the road circle in tunnels?  That might help it look more "rural".

I dislike long tunnels (another staple of the midcentury track planning Madog references), partly because of the operational issues (derailments), partly because there is the question of why you're spending all this money on trains and track only to hide them under some fake grass material.

But if one is to hide tracks on a multi-level "spaghetti bowl" such as this, I think the way to do it is to run them in subway underneath streets, with the streets made of lift-out styrene sections to allow you to access trains. In the plan below the entire roundabout could be a single lift-out piece, with access to both tracks underneath.