Camera Car

[bc6]

Hey Guys, I have one of those micro cameras used as a Nanny Cam doing nothing but collecting dust  I was thinking about getting a Series 700 Shinkasen and stuffing my micro wireless cam in the shell of it. Im curious does anyone know where I can get more info on the Tomix Rail-Cam or something similar to it maybe a home grown project or something. Come to think of it an Inspection car would be nice but not my Dr. Yellow lol.

[Shashinka]

The person I know who has done two of them is not on here. JEff, might have some insight as well as we have one that runs on the JRM layout. Actually two of them.

We have a tan version of the Ocean Arrow that the club runs that has a camera in it. The other camera is a camera mounted on a flatcar, which works better. The scratch built one is better because it runs off of an internal power supply, a small button battery.

The TOMIX one runs off of track power, so as a result the picture sorta sucks. I suspect that if we had all-wheel pickup it might be better, but as the result of the single car pickup the pictures goes in and out of static everytime it his dirty track. It's pretty annoying.

One thing I will not is that it might be tough to get a camera small enough that will have an angle of view tight enough for a shinkansen window. The TOMIX we use vignettes despite it being through an large ob-window at the front of the train.

[cteno4]

As aaron said one of our jrm members has mounted one of the smaller japanese systems (not the tomix system) in an ocean arrow. i have one of these cameras as well and have not yet mounted it in a car. the options are limited even with the smaller cameras as the camera lens is usually in the middle of the camera so you need a lower window for it to line up well. a 700 would be tough i think.

the other little remote cameras you can find around cheap (ie the nanny cams) are usually a tad too big to fit into an N scale frame. over the last few years i have picked up a few of them to fiddle with and none have really been an easy match and why i ended up ordering one of the small japanese ones with ken. the unit also takes track power to charge its battery so you can keep it charged while running.

all these systems have the problem of a fair amount of picture flicker. it helps to get the antenna in to the center of the layout, but still there is some flicker that will always be there. many folks have had this problem with the rail cams.

one other option to get some train flicks, while not live, would be to try and adapt one of the tiny USB pen cameras. the ones that i looked at might fit w/in an N scale frame, but you may have to remove the standard size USB plug and move to a micro usb plug. i have not torn one apart to see if the pc board width is the same as the standard USB connector, but that would be my guess on this. also camera itself is usually soldered directly to the pc board so this could be a problem as on the pen cameras the camera is mounted at an right angle to the pc board.

the tomix system seems to have very little flicker in it form the videos i have seen and is probably the best around, but expensive. it uses the cl system for power and sends the video signal back across the tracks, probably why it has a clean signal.

cheers

jeff

[bill937ca]

Japanese language pages on the Tomix system.  Select Report #29, Vol 1 and Vol 2.

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/menu/tomix_n_menu.htm

[Shashinka]

the tomix system seems to have very little flicker in it form the videos i have seen and is probably the best around, but expensive. it uses the cl system for power and sends the video signal back across the tracks, probably why it has a clean signal.

All assuming your track is clean of course 

[Webskipper]

Which camera systems have you used successfully on which cars?

Saw the Tomix system for $450 and knew there had to be a better way to transmit live video at a show.

I can care less about the end result of how the camera car looks whether it is built on a doublestack or a modified Express Train.

[KenS]

None, but I'm really interested in the answers you get.  This is something I want to do.

[David]

The Tomix system is really old technology and all but requires that everything else touching the track be Tomix to allow the video over rails signal.

I'm sure that you could put a miniature wifi/wireless camera in a regular car. The main challenge would be power. It would either need to be battery powered (which might require a second tethered car) or somehow charge off the rails. If it's off the rails, you'd need DCC since DC would provide less power the slower then train went.

One possible power source would be a super capacitor - these are the solid state 'batteries' used in those "charge for 30 seconds, run for 5 minutes" mini RC models. Compared to chemical batteries these trade off charge retention and single cell voltage for an order of magnitude higher charge/discharge capability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_double-layer_capacitor

Expect to find a lot of semi-not safe for work types websites if you go looking for inexpensive CCD micro cameras.

Edit: I should add one cavet, I assume you want something that transmits live video like the Tomix system. If you only want to record a drivers eye view the model airplane industry has already driven the development of a number of very small self powered cameras that can record for 1-2 hours onto flash memory.

[KenS]

Could you point to some of those airplane cameras?  For my purposes, video to flash for later replay would be sufficient, although I'd like to have real-time if I can find it.

I know it can be done, as I've seen a few postings about these, but the only one I managed track down was from a supplier who had gone out of business.

[cteno4]

Ken,

lots of little spy camera/recorders you can get for as little as $10 that actually take pretty decent quality video. just wire them to flat car and run around if you only want to get video of the layout. there are scads of them out there now days, just have to make sure it will fit on the car and around the layout well. most are just basically pin hole lenses, nothing special. many either have a usb plug on one end (just about the width of an n scale car) to charge and either internal storage chip have a or have use a micro sd card for storage. i picked up a little cigarette lighter one for like $8 from deal extreme to play with, not bad video for $8 to play with.

the micro rf cameras are around for n scale. another jrm member and i have the micro japanese cameras from rf system lab that makes endoscopes. they were about $100 and had a small nmhi battery that is charged from the track power, so you can get some camera time when the train is stopped. looks like the company has stopped making them though.

hard part is getting the parts miniaturized to fit well into n scale trains if you want it totally hidden. i have a few micro cameras ive picked up cheap over the years to play with. some have bit more substantial lenses are that are hard to fit into the front of a train with a clear view. others have a pc board that is just a couple of mm too wide to fit in a regular train. unfortunately the cameras are usually integrated onto the pc board. while you could try and separate them, its a bit of a chore and might introduce some issues into the system. even the little usb spy cameras all use a USB male connector on one end of the pc board so that sort of sets the size of the board which is just a tad wide to fit inside a car. again you could rip it up to do a micro connector.

i have not looked at the fancier rc units, but the simpler ones i have seen again are just a tad large to fit w/in a car body, but should work on a camera car. most r/c planes dont have the space limits of an n scale car body, but more weight restriction.

the main systems that you can get for train cameras are battery powered with like 30-60 minutes range. of course you can usually fit more cells into a car as well and theres a great range of nimh and lithium cells out there now days.

its going to be hard to get a really clean rf signal from the layout, lots of things that can cause the interference and the transmission power is pretty low. the videos of the tomix cameras seemed to have very very clean signals by transmitting over the tracks. but as others have mentioned you need to be all tomix to make sure it works right!

good news is this is something getting better and better all the time. cell phone camera lenses are getting quite good and hopefully make their way into these little camera systems that can be put in trains!

thing im into now with the cameras is to place them on interesting places on the layout and then have those on some screens so you can see the view from an n scale person's POV as the train goes by. want to mount a camera in the new jrm shinkansen station im working on so you can see the trains go thru the station. have to work out what the best placement will be though.

btw, there are some plans out there on the web to make interesting follow the rails pan mechanisms for train cameras. makes for much nicer views on the curves instead of the whiplash views you usually get from a 60-80' car on tight radiuses!

cheers

jeff

[Kumo]

Last week I saw a camera Märklin ICE. It comes with screen-glasses.



I don't know the resolution of the camera but I must say driving an HO train with the feeling you are actually inside with those glasses on your nose must be nice!

[Webskipper]

Many of these pin hole coin sized cams I see are really 19mm wide. How wide are the cams you used?

Panning mechanism? Like an active headlamp?  Probably can use the vertical electrical posts off some of the material trucks or the coupler to physically pan the camera. Use a low profile chassis like an articulated car with some foam sponge for shock absorption. The cam must have some insulation from shock.

[cteno4]

basically used a physical arm to the front truck to swing and aim the camera to the center of the track ahead instead of the tangent line with the car body.

quick look around i cant find it, but here is one where he tried mounting the camera on the truck out in front of the car.

http://www.mymrq.com/myMRQ/Aspfiles/DetailPage.asp?Xfer_Code=40001550&CatCode=R

btw while looking around i found one guy that has a camera that he had to point upwards and used a mirror to get the ahead view, neat.

http://www.glenvigus.com/wordpress/2010/03/n-scale-camera-car/

cheers

jeff

[cteno4]

Last week I saw a camera Märklin ICE. It comes with screen-glasses.

I don't know the resolution of the camera but I must say driving an HO train with the feeling you are actually inside with those glasses on your nose must be nice!

cool idea for train immersion! those glasses are getting cheaper and cheaper!

there are companies in japan that have portable 'party' layouts you can rent and they have a separate train cab area where you only have the controller and train cam on a flat screen to run the train from! kids get to take turn running the train from the cab view only.

train cams on the jrm layout are a very big hit. probably the worst problem we have with 'fingers' though as folks (yes many adults included) love to try to wiggle their fingers in front of the camera. only problem is as they are wiggling they are usually looking at the screen and not where there fingers are in relationship to the layout and trains. even though the train is bearing down on them there seems to be a disconnect in the brain that its about to run into their fingers! definitely some odd neuro pathway that flips like this...

cheers

jeff

[Kumo]

Last week I saw a camera Märklin ICE. It comes with screen-glasses.

I don't know the resolution of the camera but I must say driving an HO train with the feeling you are actually inside with those glasses on your nose must be nice!

there are companies in japan that have portable 'party' layouts you can rent and they have a separate train cab area where you only have the controller and train cam on a flat screen to run the train from! kids get to take turn running the train from the cab view only.

I've seen such a thing in Hikone. Now I regret that I didn't ask to try.


Train Shop in Hikone by loriskumo, on Flickr
(if you look closely, you will see Totoro waiting on the platform! ^_^)

They were really nice people and when I told them I had a Tomix Shinkansen, the lady ran in the shop, picked a box of Tomytec houses and they offered it to me. I didn't even buy anything, I just looked in this shop.

[clem24]

A lot of the cams that you guys are referring to like the pen spy cams don't transmit in real time, do they? I've done lots of searching and it's hard to find something small AND transmits through RF at the same time. Most just save to onboard memory, which makes them slightly useless. I have one that looks sort of like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wireless-Spy-Nanny-Mini-Micro-Camera-FULL-SYSTEM-/390120901957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad5048d45

It's small enough to fit on a flat car, and with some mods, I am sure I can fit it into a Shinkansen body (but not willing to sacrifice any of my Shinkansen in my roster right now hehehe). It does run off a 9V battery, so I'd need to find some alternative power. The rechargeable battery with track charging is an AMAZING idea. I've love to see some links for that system.

Also in one of my old Japanese model mags, there was an advert for a wireless cam system from some company, can't remember their name, but I do know that they web address doesn't work and Google searches turn up nothing, so I can only assume they've gone out of business. Might even be the same system that's been referred to in this thread.

[cteno4]

Clem,

yep right if you dont want real time you can use those pen/lighter/etc spy cameras that record to a micro SD card. you will get a bit better resolution and none of the interference, so if you are looking for just good video of the layout from a train POV then those are the easier and better way to go.

if you want real time you need something like the little nanny cam you linked. most of the systems out there are based on basically this little camera system. i would not be surprised if many used the same components! i have 3 cheap ones here an they are all nearly identical once you pull it down to the camera board. these will work fine on a flat car, but they are just a tad to large to mount inside say a commuter car. the pc board is just a tad too wide and the ccd/lens is mounted to the center of the pc board and looks to be tough to separate.

im sure there are smaller ones out there in the spy cam world that are rf broadcasters, but the price will go up! rf also eats up the battery faster to do the transmission and the cleaner the transmission the stronger the signal would need to be and thus more power needed. it does help if you can locate the receiver in the center of your layout for better reception. we need to do this with the jrm systems and then just run a long video cable over to the table where the monitor usually is.

the one i think you may have seen advertised is the RF Lab units that ken and i have that does the track recharging. its a nice little unit, but unfortunately they dont make it anymore and the page is gone for the old link i had for it. RF Lab did a bunch of tiny cameras for endoscopes and other medical devices and had this one unit for a while. i think someone there was a hobbyist and tried to see if they could branch out. didnt seem to last more than about 6 months and then no more word from them doing hobby cameras. was nice as they seemed to be a quality camera company and use to doing more specialized circuits for the needs of the system.

to charge form the track you might be able to use a little voltage limiter charging circuit, dealextreme.com has some, but most i think are based on 3-5v range for rechargeable flashlight systems. most of the cheap spy cams work on 9v, but i expect they just do that to have a small battery and probably drop the voltage down pretty fast to 3-5v. sure something could be designed to do this. i have always wanted to play more with the cam systems, but just have not gotten around to it yet and i figure its one of those things that will get better and cheaper with time!

cheers

jeff

[bigford]

there is a guy named Peter Wisniewski on the atlas board that installed a cam in a p42
its in the kato gallery here are 2 pics
http://www.katousa.com/gallery/albums/Peter-Wisniewski/aak.sized.jpg
http://www.katousa.com/gallery/albums/Peter-Wisniewski/aab.sized.jpg

[cteno4]

thanks bigford. hmm wonder what camera he is using?! looks just the right size. guessing he is using track power with a voltage limiter, great with DCC!

cheers

jeff

[Webskipper]

This should help feed the fire.

http://www.katousa.com/gallery/Peter-Wisniewski/aao?full=1

[clem24]

Holy smokes that thing's amazing!!! But let's see some real footage hehehe. Also the P42 is quite a bit narrower than any JR rolling stock that I have! So then maybe something like an EF65 would make a good camera car (after some good deal of hacking). I've got a TON of Japanese Kato locos that I'd be more than willing to experiment on hehehe.

What would you guys recommend for hacking the metal? Probably just a Dremel?

[David]

There has been a camera car thread over at the other forum, and I think the definitive post has been made. Check out the prototype this camera is mounted in.

http://n-spoor.nl/bouwtips/videowagen/traincam-flyer.pdf

[Martijn Meerts]

Seems this is the camera set in question.. A bit pricey, but still quite interesting :)

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=4335

[David]

Tony's trains appears to have carried it at one time for $169, however some comments on their site show the parts where difficult to get

http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/traincam.htm

This is the maker, it would seem they actually build their stuff for medical which is a much bigger market then support some cranky old people who constantly complain about not having free replacements.

http://www.rfamerica.com/

[Tenorikuma]

I was never interested in train cameras until I read this thread, and now I think controlling a model train with a computer monitor and cab view like a first-person video game would be the awesomest thing ever.

[KenS]

Seems this is the camera set in question.. A bit pricey, but still quite interesting :)

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=4335

Note that that's the PAL version (for Europe). Those of us in the States would need to use the NTSC version:

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=1793

From the text on the site, this seems to be a preorder rather than an in-stock item, and the photos match some of those on Tony's Trains for the RF Systems camera (including the receiver, which is RF's "Morse type S" model), which makes me wonder how likely it is to show up.  It's interesting that it is illustrated with a Japanese EMU in some of the photos.

And just to confuse things, it's listed as "In Stock" on this page.

Does anyone have experience with DCC Trains as a merchant?  Are they likely to list something as in-stock if it isn't?

If real, that's the same camera that received many very good reviews a few years ago. But I thought they'd stopped making it, and I can't find any mention on RF's English or Japanese web sites beyond a historical note that they made a "train camera" once.

[cteno4]

rfamerica looks to be the oversea site for the japanese rf labs were we got our cams from a few years back. they usually do medical systems. they did have the trains cams on their site for maybe 6 months then pulled and did not see them anymore. perhaps they are just doing some custom small runs for the other sites that have them. the dcc cam one looks just like the rf lab system and same feature sets.

btw dcc trains price is twice what we paid for it from japan thru rflabs.

cheers

jeff

[clem24]

There has been a camera car thread over at the other forum, and I think the definitive post has been made. Check out the prototype this camera is mounted in.

http://n-spoor.nl/bouwtips/videowagen/traincam-flyer.pdf

This looks exactly like the one I saw in the ad in RM Models.

[Shashinka]

I know I'll get a royal bitch slap for suggesting this, but I'd rather the camera be off centered to give a more appropriate angle that better resembles what the motorman sees. I have never operated any train, or tram, OR rode in any such where the motorman, or engineer, fireman sat top dead center of the gauge.

[cteno4]

OK next time your down the guys in the club can bitch slap you around for the comment! remind us a the next lunch or cherry blossom festival.

would be doable, just not completely hidden in a train shell. unless you can find one of the ultra mini cameras and hook it into the system. even thought he lens and ccd on some of these looks to be pretty tiny, most are built onto the center of a small circuit board, thus hard to mount off center. you could do it on a car with proper counter balancing, hanging out over the edge.

for a recording camera the little flash video camera i have might fit over on the drivers side. problem is right now the thin direction is the wrong orientation for this. i have not torn this one open yet to see if it could be rotated 90 degrees easily. wont get the live feed...

given time these will be better, smaller, cheaper!

cheers

jeff

I know I'll get a royal bitch slap for suggesting this, but I'd rather the camera be off centered to give a more appropriate angle that better resembles what the motorman sees. I have never operated any train, or tram, OR rode in any such where the motorman, or engineer, fireman sat top dead center of the gauge.

[Shashinka]

Well, they can make a camera small enough to fit up a man urethra, i cant see why one can't shift a camera over 5mm to the left for perspective control.

[cteno4]

true, but they are really expensive! RF systems has a bunch of tiny cameras for endoscopes and to put in capsules to do full digestive track trips! they even have ones that can reorient and crawl upstream when needed from external control as well as take a couple of tiny biopsies!

better and cheaper will eventually rule here!

jeff

[cteno4]

ok i tested the cigarette lighter cam and unfortunately the flat side is the horizon (meant to lay on the table to use as a spy cam) so would not work up against the side of a train. i then decided to tear it open the ccd is actually tiny, a cube about 3mm square! its attached to the mother board via a very short flexible pc connector, but unfortunately its a very short one. its about a 20 pin connector. there is a small plug for it, but not sure how this sucker comes apart and finding the equivalent one may be tough.

oh well it was worth opening up to see.

cheers

jeff

[cteno4]

sorry must have hiccuped here...

[clem24]

I know I'll get a royal bitch slap for suggesting this, but I'd rather the camera be off centered to give a more appropriate angle that better resembles what the motorman sees. I have never operated any train, or tram, OR rode in any such where the motorman, or engineer, fireman sat top dead center of the gauge.

Well LOL dude you could always project the image onto a huge 100" screen and then just stand off to the side... That would be the right solution...

[cteno4]

Well LOL dude you could always project the image onto a huge 100" screen and then just stand off to the side... That would be the right solution...

Clem then he will want to side cameras and two 42" screens to the left and right to get full view VR!

jeff

[Shashinka]

as the beaver said to the lumber jack, "dam straight."

[clem24]

Clem then he will want to side cameras and two 42" screens to the left and right to get full view VR!

You know, this is the stupidest idea ever until I thought of the fact that this would work fantastic in HO scale!!! I mean the gap in the screen would even look like the break in the middle of a prototypical windscreen! LOL I love it!

Except for one problem - the cameras will each see a different perspective and when put side by side, would probably give you a big headache due to parallax issues hahaha but dude you're on the right track! Or heck, you know, putting 2 cameras side by side means the potential to drive in 3D LOL

[Webskipper]

Still waiting on my Bic Cameras.  Going to have fun with this one.

Now just how can you watch through your iPhone/iPad?

[cteno4]

well live that would take some work as you would need to feed the video into a streaming video setup to then watch on your iphone, ipad, etc live.

the little recorder cameras spit out avi files that you can read with transfer and then move to your mobile devices.

cheers

jeff

[keitaro]

i wonder if these things will be getting smaller anytime soon.

http://ajoka.com/thumbcorder.htm

i think they would be great to do as you could you a yamanote line for example to give the feeling of a passenger looking out the side and through the driver compartment.

also you can edit video afterwards with out poor rf signal.

I saw one the other week with a twist top lens to rotate for right angle but now i can't find it :(

[cteno4]

kitaro,

the dvr guys are down to like 12mm in diameter in the little pen cameras for under $20. basically the same as the little lighter cam earlier in this thread

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2GB-HD-MINI-DVR-Audio-Video-Camera-Recorder-Spy-Pen-720x480-avi-1280x960-jpg-/200680084944?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D280783496540%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5361933742436311277#ht_2327wt_977

the rf units are down to like 10mm in cross section

http://www.ebay.com/itm/tiny-cam-Smallest-8-Channel-2-4GHz-Mini-SPY-Wireless-Hidden-Pinhole-A-V-Camera-/120837223798?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2275b576

ive got this one and want to experiment more with it.

problem with these is mainly trying to lengthen the leads on the ccd so you could bend it 90 degrees to look out a side window. the flex cable on the rf unit or the lighter unit are not quite long enough to point it to the side w.o some modification. the lens rotation doesnt get you the side view unfortunately.

the rf labs system i have has the camera in a tiny box about 10mm cube so it can point sideways.

could probably use one of the larger rf cameras that are not small enough to fit inside a car and just mount them on a flat car with a window frame in front of the lens pointing sideways. would not look pretty but could get your video.

cheers

jeff

[keitaro]

this is interesting http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-808-Car-Key-Fob-Micro-16-Camera-Real-1280x720-HD-H-264-Codec-Cam-1-4-CMOS-/320816551954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab2281812

if only it was a bit less wide if you could take the cover off and had it on its side you could maybe fit in some models?

you might be able to do both

[cteno4]

These are a bit too long to fit sideways. Folks have used them for forward looking cameras but they are too wide to fit w.in a car.

There are also pen DVD cameras that shoot out the side of the pen, but still a problem for shooting out the side as the video would be vertical.

More and more of these will show up!

After seeing the out the side YouTube video I now want to try and extend the lighter cam, they are only $9 ea

Jeff

[keitaro]

These are a bit too long to fit sideways. Folks have used them for forward looking cameras but they are too wide to fit w.in a car.

There are also pen DVD cameras that shoot out the side of the pen, but still a problem for shooting out the side as the video would be vertical.

More and more of these will show up!

After seeing the out the side YouTube video I now want to try and extend the lighter cam, they are only $9 ea

Jeff

thats what got me looking.

maybe that pen dvd could be modified to turn the lens on it's side?

[cteno4]

Most of these have flexible ribbon connectors between the CCDs and the main boards but they are pretty short and would be hard pressed to be able to do a 90 degree horizontal bend (90 or even 180 vertically would be no problem). See the picture earlier in this thread, every camera I've opened up has pretty much the same basic layout Will need the ribbon cable extended with sections of short wire.

Jeff

[Webskipper]

Micromark has a 9v Battery eliminator: Remember a 9V battery is not affected by track power losses.
http://www.micromark.com/Battery-Eliminator-for-Micro-Camera,8370.html


This is the 5.8GHz spy camera I am looking into with a DVR:
https://www.dynaspy.com/mini-5-8ghz-wireless-color-spy-camera-new

10 x 10 x 30 mm (0.4 x 0.4 x 1.2 in)

[cteno4]

Need to get a circuit to take variable track power to charge 6v of rechargeable batteries. This is how the rf labs camera works so the camera keeps going when stopped a while w.o dcc.

Will be interesting to hear how the 5.8ghz system works with the tHe interference. The size/form factor looks the 2.8ghz ones. I tore one of those apart to try mounting inside a car, but unfortunately the pc board was a little over 1mm too wide to fit inside the car and the ccd was soldered to the back side of the pc board, so it couldn't be easily extended to get the pc board in.

Cheers

Jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

A problem with the camera's that several people seem to overlook, not notice, or maybe just don't care about, is the resolution. For example, the mentioned Thumbcorder specifies: AVI Video Format, H263 352x288 up to 15 FPS .. 352x288 at 15fps? That's terrible ;)

The cheap ones are nice to experiment with, but obviously the image quality won't be the best. It would be nice to fit a fairly decent 720p dvr in a train for high quality recordings, and have another car with some rf system. The rf system is a bit sensitive to interference though, so better to wait for a wifi version ;)

[clem24]

The cheap ones are nice to experiment with, but obviously the image quality won't be the best. It would be nice to fit a fairly decent 720p dvr in a train for high quality recordings, and have another car with some rf system. The rf system is a bit sensitive to interference though, so better to wait for a wifi version ;)

I too am waiting for something HD which is why I was so disappointed Kato decided to release, in 2011, an RF system with composite video out. I can't even remember the last time I even used a composite lead for anything.

My dad just bought one of these to mount to his full size RC Heli:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150727708202

It's supposedly the smallest 720p spy cam out there, but it's still a bit too too big for N scale use. Would probably fit in HO rolling stock though! At $40 USD, it's cheap enough to try, though my dad said it's supposedly pretty good quality judging from people's experiences of RC forums.