serenityFan - Discussion thread

[disturbman]

Thread reserved to discuss serenityFan's project and updates.

[disturbman]

Nice project serenity! I like the idea of the tram terminus and of the open market.

I think this party is going to be quite interesting. For the moment all the projects are of equal quality, interest and, for me, source of excitment. I'm really pleased with all this.

[Bernard]

Serenity - Great idea, a project that will add on to your existing layout. What material are you using on top of your WS inclines?

[serenityFan]

Thanks guys ... I'll need all the support (and the occasional nudge) to make sure I'll finish this one on time  

I got tired of all the holes on my inclines and risers, so I covered almost everything with 3 mm cork sheet, the same material which covers the entire base of my layout. I was planning on covering all risers with plester cloth, however the small section that I did came out very rough, bumpy and uneven, the unitrack won't lay flat on them. So I had to scrape them off and cover all the track section with cork.

Any suggestions for the base for my diorama? I need something thin and strong, too thick of a base and the diorama will sit too high on the layout...

Edit: the pic in the progress thread is too big, here is a more sane version ...

[disturbman]

I've seen in creative hobby shops very thin (like milimeters high) leaf of wood. Might be sturdy enough, if not some foam core boards might do the trick. I used one day some that were like 5 milimeters and it was really strong. A diorama could held on top of it. :)

[Mudkip Orange]

I've seen in creative hobby shops very thin (like milimeters high) leaf of wood. Might be sturdy enough, if not some foam core boards might do the trick. I used one day some that were like 5 milimeters and it was really strong. A diorama could held on top of it. :)

I used 5mm hardboard on Mudkip Dentetsu 1.0. I think availability is regional - it was at Lowe's in PHL, but I haven't seen it anywhere here.

[CaptOblivious]

You could use even thinner tempered high-density fiberboard from your local art supply shop (brandname "Hardbord"). I've found 1mm tempered HDF board to be really tough. It's pretty cheap too.

[Bernard]

Nice start to the project!

[Bernard]

Excellent results on weathering the track, you can do mind. 

Here is a test you can do to take the paint off the head rail before you airbrush. Take a small amount of light oil on a Q-tip and spread in on the head rail only. Airbrush the track and then wipe off the paint that got on the head rail. If you're doing a lot of weathering of track on a layout, this is a big time saver.

[serenityFan]

Thanks.

When I checked the results again this morning it looked a bit too light (orange), maybe the paint colour becomes lighter as it dries. Certainly looked better last night, although that could also just be my eyes around midnight

I must admit I originally thought this weathering business is difficult, however having tried it, is not as difficult as I thought it would be... and the difference is quite visible especially when you put is side by side with un-weathered track.
I might even do some more tests to get a darker look.

I think I did read about oiling the rail before hand,  does that also work if I'm painting using a manual paint brush (and not airbrushing)?

[Bernard]

[quote author=serenityFan link=topic=1681.msg16407#msg16407 date=1253148428

I think I did read about oiling the rail before hand,  does that also work if I'm painting using a manual paint brush (and not airbrushing)?
[/quote]
I don't know. I might not work if some of the oil got on the paint brush then none of the paint will adhere to the rails. So forget what I suggested and stick to what you're doing, it's working.

[Bernard]

Serenity - The biggest compliment I can give you is that I'm going to copy your method!
I like the effect you got and there is a wall of my layout that I've been having problems deciding on what to do with. Now I know!
What material did you use for the road.                 

[serenityFan]

Glad you liked the method 
Of course I found this method on the internet, however I can't find where I saw it. I'll post it later ...
 
As for the road in the picture, that is actually cork which will serve as bed for the flex track. The track will go along the wall, where as the actual road will be at the front of the module.

[serenityFan]

The original post where I read about my concrete-ing method, check out this link:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=33002

and look for engineerkyle... also has some pictures of his results.

On another note, I have tested ballasting a piece of flex-track (not on the module, but on a test strip). Luckily I decided to do a test-run first, as this is my first time, and the results are not what I expected.

It wasn't as dense as I hoped, I will try again and this time maybe I have to push down and compact the ballast into the space especially around the rail ties.

[Bernard]

The Tram Terminus is quite a detailed project you're doing, I didn't realize it. (I thought the demo model looked good,who makes it out of curiosity) I like how you measured the Portram with the platform. Can't wait to see the next step when it's painted.

[serenityFan]

The Tram Terminus is quite a detailed project you're doing, I didn't realize it. (I thought the demo model looked good,who makes it out of curiosity) I like how you measured the Portram with the platform. Can't wait to see the next step when it's painted.

Which demo model are you referring to? This one?

More details...

Or the other one in the link?

[disturbman]

That's heavy modeling that you are doing. Great job! To see you work like that gives more strength to actually try scratch building.

[Bernard]

The Tram Terminus is quite a detailed project you're doing, I didn't realize it. (I thought the demo model looked good,who makes it out of curiosity) I like how you measured the Portram with the platform. Can't wait to see the next step when it's painted.

Which demo model are you referring to? This one?

More details...

That's the one.

[serenityFan]

Yes, i made that one as well. That was the first iteration, and it allowed me to try different things. Like I tried several ways to make the roof section. Also it allows me to learn from mistakes. For examples the pillars are not straight because I did the holes on the roof and on the base separately. Now for the real model, I know that I need to align and create the holes on both the roof and the base together so the pillars are really straight.

All these little things are the main difficulties I encounter when scratch building. Once all these are known, it is quite straight forward to make the final model. I'll also practice painting the model on the prototype later.   

[serenityFan]

That's heavy modeling that you are doing. Great job! To see you work like that gives more strength to actually try scratch building.

yes, give it a try. I think you're not that far away from actual scratch building with the way you're using paint on tape give hour small house more texture.  taking the first step is always the most difficult. I tried to scratch-build a small hotel to sit on the top of my plaster mountain but it never got off the ground. Luckily this terminus did much better, and it gives me more confidence to built other buildings.

[disturbman]

Nice work Serenity! It's coming along nicely! 

I have one or two questions for you:
- Did you rework the end of you rails to fit them in the platforms? Meaning, did you cut away the clip system and remove the eclipse?
- What did you use to form your platform? Cork and

[Bernard]

Serenity - Your layout looks very precise and neat. If you don't mind could you show a wider photo of the layout, the bench work looks good.

[serenityFan]

Nice work Serenity! It's coming along nicely! 

I have one or two questions for you:
- Did you rework the end of you rails to fit them in the platforms? Meaning, did you cut away the clip system and remove the eclipse?
- What did you use to form your platform? Cork and

Thank disturbman ... for the end of the rails, I didn't cut the clip system, I just covered it with a layer of balsa wood.

So the first layer is 3 mm cork, this layer sits on the base and the track also sits directly on the base. I make a cut on the cork to fit the clip:

More details...

The clip now sits flush with the cork layer, so I can put the second layer (which is 2.5 mm balsa wood) on top covering the clip:

More details...

Serenity - Your layout looks very precise and neat. If you don't mind could you show a wider photo of the layout, the bench work looks good.

I haven't taken a new photo, so I'll just insert an existing photo here:

More details...

More details...

So looking at the second photo, in order from the bottom to the top I have:
Ikea table, Woodchip board, cork 3mm, the base (cardboard) for the module, another layer of cork 3mm, balsa wood 2.5mm.   

[disturbman]

Ok... so your base is balsa wood. I'm having myself a problem to find the products I need to build my platforms.

[disturbman]

Now, you see. "Don't take any pictures with your mobile phone!" should have been one of the guidelines. 

Glad that both of you are making progress. Because I'm not. I wish I could but I just can't locate the building material (foam, cork and/or styrene) I need. I can't even score blue foam boards in places like "home depot" here. I must have missed something.

[serenityFan]

Now, you see. "Don't take any pictures with your mobile phone!" should have been one of the guidelines. 

Glad that both of you are making progress. Because I'm not. I wish I could but I just can't locate the building material (foam, cork and/or styrene) I need. I can't even score blue foam boards in places like "home depot" here. I must have missed something.

I know the feeling, I can't find any blue foam board anywhere here either. Same for those pink/blue insulation foam boards that everyone seems to be using, can't find it. In the end I just use those different thick boards and foam core which I can find at a local art shop.

I am now looking at this way: the hunt for materials is part of the modelling experience. Good luck... 

[Bernard]

That's one thing we have in the USA, Home Depot or Lowe's, huge Hardware stores that cater to contractors. There is always a supply of insulation foam and lumber. I wonder if it has a lot to do with the area of the world that you live in. There might be some areas that insulation foam wouldn't be necessary.

What are you using on top of the platforms, I like the detail it adds.

[disturbman]

I found some... but very expensive in a artist/hobby supply shop. No luck so far in the hardware stores. Strange since I've seen plenty of blue foam laying around construction sites.

[stickboy]

I found some... but very expensive in a artist/hobby supply shop. No luck so far in the hardware stores. Strange since I've seen plenty of blue foam laying around construction sites.

Next time stop and ask for off-cuts. Lots get thrown away, most builders I know would be happy to let you have some. Besides, if you don't ask, you will never know!

[marknewton]

Andy, just  had a look at your in-progress thread. I'm really impressed with your tram terminus. And the fact that you're inspired by the Toyama tramway is no bad thing either.

All the best,

Mark.

[Bernard]

Enjoy the vacation, we'll miss you though!
The layout is starting to look real busy with activity, everything is coming together.
How do you like the Greenmax catenary poles? I have some Kato poles which I'm going to use on my diorama and had problems weathering them because the plastic that Kato uses doesn't adhere to paint. (I've discussed this in another thread.)
I like the Greenmax buildings you've added, and you're right not to set them in place until you find a pattern you like. Do you plan to put lights in the buildings?
The project looks great.

[disturbman]

Have a good time in NZ.

It's really starting to shape up! 

Still, I'm wondering if taller buildings (like 4/5 storey high) will not have a better effect on the perceived scenery. I mean, you have a very high wall behind the module and higher building will make the trains on the embankment disappear and reappear behind them. No need to have much them, one or two could be enough. That was just a quick thought.

[serenityFan]

Andy, just  had a look at your in-progress thread. I'm really impressed with your tram terminus. And the fact that you're inspired by the Toyama tramway is no bad thing either.

All the best,

Mark.

Thanks Mark, can't wait to see what you will come up with on your module ... 

Enjoy the vacation, we'll miss you though!
The layout is starting to look real busy with activity, everything is coming together.
How do you like the Greenmax catenary poles? I have some Kato poles which I'm going to use on my diorama and had problems weathering them because the plastic that Kato uses doesn't adhere to paint. (I've discussed this in another thread.)
I like the Greenmax buildings you've added, and you're right not to set them in place until you find a pattern you like. Do you plan to put lights in the buildings?
The project looks great.

The greenmax catenary poles are quite OK, I washed the sprue and tried 1 with and another one without primer. After 2 coats of grey tamiya paint, can't tell the difference between the two. Maybe it's just a pole, so you can't really see the advantage of using primers. On the one without primer, after the first coat you can still see the plastic bits, however a second coat pretty much covers everything.
And the buildings are actually Tomytec buildings, my greenmax buildings are still un-assembled in their original box 

Have a good time in NZ.

It's really starting to shape up! 

Still, I'm wondering if taller buildings (like 4/5 storey high) will not have a better effect on the perceived scenery. I mean, you have a very high wall behind the module and higher building will make the trains on the embankment disappear and reappear behind them. No need to have much them, one or two could be enough. That was just a quick thought.

Will definitely try different buildings later on, including taller ones. And also will definitely try install lights. However probably this will happen after the party ... for now I just want to try to make the module "look" complete

[disturbman]

Maybe it's just a pole, so you can't really see the advantage of using primers. On the one without primer, after the first coat you can still see the plastic bits, however a second coat pretty much covers everything.

I don't know why but I find this very funny!  With two coats of paints, the first one oftenly plays the role of primer.

[serenityFan]

I don't know why but I find this very funny!  With two coats of paints, the first one oftenly plays the role of primer.

I remember you said something about this on the other thread ... actually even with the primer, I still need another 2 coats of paint to get a satisfying results. 

[Bernard]

What ballast are you using and how do you like it? Your results look great!
I use WS ballast and I learn through trial and error that it tends to float if too much glue gets on it. To stop this I take a mist spray of alcohol over the ballast then with dropper apply the glue. The alcohol breaks the surface tension.

[Toni Babelony]

The alcohol breaks the surface tension.

One can also use soap for this. *serenityfan used another kind of base chemical for this* Smells much nicer :) Be careful though not to use too much, otherwise unwanted foam will pop up occasionally.

[Bernard]

The alcohol breaks the surface tension.

One can also use soap for this. *serenityfan used another kind of base chemical for this* Smells much nicer :) Be careful though not to use too much, otherwise unwanted foam will pop up occasionally.

Right. I forgot I add 3 drops of dish soap to the diluted mixture of white glue. The alcohol wets the ballasts and then lets the glue soak through.

[serenityFan]

I am using Noch Ballast Brown HO/TT scale ... because: 1. that's the only one that I already have and 2. I've actually read on one of the Japanese blogs that although using HO scale ballast is not prototypical size-wise, it may actually look better to the eye... however since I have never used N scale ballast, I cannot say which one I think looks better.

So far the I'm quite pleased with the results. When I checked this morning, the glue has set in.
There are some 'bald' patches though which I missed yesterday, so i may need to add some ballast at several spots later ...

And I did get some foam/bubbles when I used the dropper to apply the glue, which I managed to gently blow away as soon as they appeared. So far so good ... 

[disturbman]

Serenity - I was dondering, did you ballast the Finetracks too?

[serenityFan]

Serenity - I was dondering, did you ballast the Finetracks too?

No, I did the ballast only on the flex track... the plan is for the finetrack section to be covered by concrete (like tram tracks on the road). Haven't decided yet on the how 

[Bernard]

Serenity - I was dondering, did you ballast the Finetracks too?

No, I did the ballast only on the flex track... the plan is for the finetrack section to be covered by concrete (like tram tracks on the road). Haven't decided yet on the how 

Let me know on the "how" too, that's what I'm trying to figure out on my other project. 

[Bernard]

The trees look very real what you might consider is adding foliage to the branches.
Take a look at the Video Woodlandscenic has at their site but instead of using their tree forms replace it with the twigs you have.
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/FlashVideos/MakeATree.html

[CaptOblivious]

The ballasting and trees both look good, although the plaza around the platform looks sadly empty. Maybe more street vendors would help, and a little landscaping (benches, shrubberies, lamps etc, to make the space more inviting)

The flex track you are using appears to have tie sizing and spacing that is a good match for Japanese narrow gauge. What brand is it? Peco?

[disturbman]

I agree with Don here. Think to add some markings and people too and it will look great.

[quinntopia]

Uh... stupid question...where are you all seeing the pictures?    They're not in the posts, right, cause other than  a couple of photos of the tram station, I can't see all the other work that you guys are talking about. 

[Bernard]

Uh... stupid question...where are you all seeing the pictures?    They're not in the posts, right, cause other than  a couple of photos of the tram station, I can't see all the other work that you guys are talking about. 

Quinn - You have to go to the "In progress" thread to see the photos. Here it is:
http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,1682.0.html

[quinntopia]

Thanks!  I found it!  Great work Serenity! I'm inspired by the weathering you did on your tack, and your tram station is amazing!  Looking forward to following this more closely (now that I can find the photos all of you were talking about!).  :-)

[serenityFan]

Thanks Quinn...

However the whole module needs a lot more details...
So is there a kato or greenmax kit which has lanscaping details, like benches/plant boxes/water fountains maybe?
I've got some street lamps (need to paint and install them hopefully by this weekend).

[disturbman]

I don't think Greenmax has that but if I remember correctly Kato has a street detailing kit. You can also look for Ginga Model, Tsugawa Yoko and Tomitec.

Look here for some accessories: http://www.1999.co.jp/search_e.asp?Typ1_c=104&SC=169&Typ=0&sortID=0&scope=1&urikire=1&andor=&scope2=0&ItKey=accessory&SPage=1