Installing a DCC Decoder for Motor

[Bernard]

I decided to show how I installed a Lenz decoder in to my Kato 500 Nozomi Shinkansen and I'll do it step by step. It's fairly easy and I recommend a 15 watt soldering iron and alligator clips or forceps. The first photo is the complete motor car and the second photo show the top and bottom pieces apart from the chassis.

[Bernard]

The 3rd photo shows the underside of the chassis where if you look closely you will see 2 plastic clasps near the motor, you will have to squeeze them in order to get the upper plate off from the chassis.

The 4th photo is the 2 terminals you will have to solder coming form the motor, the yellow wire and the gray.

[Bernard]

The 5th photo shows the soldering point of the Black wire to the front end of the brass pick up shoe. Remember that the Black & Gray wires are connected on the same side and the Orange & Yellow wires on the opposite sides.

The 6th photo show how to isolate the connection form the brass pick up shoe from the 2 terminal points from the motor. I use Kapton isolating tape and all I do is wrap it once around the brass strip where there would be a connection to the 2 motor terminals. I also use a little of the tape to make sure the strip stays in place.

The last photo show the motor car opened with the decoder installed with the pin that keeps the motor terminals locked down in place. I didn't cut or remove the 3 wires for controlling the lights, just in case in the future I want to put this decoder into another train.

Well I hope this helps and it really is fairly easy.

[CaptOblivious]

Very nice! Did you just recently do this install? How has it run since installation? What decoder did you use? Headlights coming soon?  ;)

[Bernard]

Capt,
I did this install a few months ago I will do another photo step by step because I don't like the way the photo of "Kapton" tape looks on the brass strips. It runs beautifully, I haven't had any problems with it at all. I've ordered the digitrax TF-4 decoders for the Head & tailights and they should be coming soon. Maybe this weekend I'll do the install on them and show the steps using the guide you gave earlier.

[hbr245b]

I've just performed an install using the above instructions. My first ever time soldering anything! Took me longer to put the coach back together than to perform the actual install.

Many thanks for the help!

[Bernard]

Great to hear that! The best part is now that you did your first one the next will be easier. For me personally, I find the Kato's the easiest to install decoders. I hope to show an install with a Tomix train next later on. Can you post some photos of the train if you don't mind.

Martijn, you have said that the Kato cargo train is a little tricky to install a decoder. Do you also have photos?
Thanks

[Martijn Meerts]

Bernard, I don't think I have any readily available, but I can take a few. The M250 is in need of half an hour worth on the roller bench thingy anyway ;) The decoder install itself is fine, you just put it inside the container of the powered car with the motor, the problem is (as always ;)) the lighting to the cab =)


As for decoder installs, I've noticed that locomotives are often much more difficult than shinkansen, EMU's and DMU's. Not only is there much less space in a loco, but the power pickup from the wheels is usually done through the frame. The frame is divided in 2 parts and electrically isolated from each other. It's easy enough to isolate the motor from this frame, but soldering onto the frame is difficult to do. I'm not sure what type of metal the frame is made of, but your average soldering iron/pen and leaded tin won't do much good. I'm still experimenting with soldering on the frame, and I know there's people who've managed with a 40 watt soldering iron. Most of the latest loco's I've tried to convert had this type of split-frame construction.

I'm actually having some issues adding a Selectrix decoder to a Tomix EF510 loco. The loco is my father's, and he runs Selectrix rather than DCC. But we've already destroyed 2 decoders. The first one after 2.5-3 weeks of running just fine, the 2nd after only 15 minutes or so. Not sure what's causing it, I did the install exactly the same as my Tomix EF65-1000 (which also has a Selectrix/DCC decoder due to space limitations), and the EF65 seems to be running fine.

[hbr245b]

Here's a picture of the motor coach of my 500 - I used a Digitrax DZ123.

It's rather difficult to see but the black & red wires are soldered to the wheel pickups (underneath the red decoder pouch). The grey & orange wires are soldered to the motor connectors.

On the left you may be able to see the LED light. This is not controlled by the decoder.

Now I've seen how "easy" it is to install the motor decoder, my attention will turn to the lights in the end cars. For now though, I'm feeling quite pleased with myself.

I couldn't have done it without the forum!

[CaptOblivious]

Excellent work! Congratulations, and welcome to the delightful world of soldering! It really does get easier with only a couple of installs under your belt. Just in case you missed it, I'll plug my site now: I have a pictorial guide on my website on installing DCC for the lights in the end cars. http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/  ;)

[Martijn Meerts]

Looking good ;)

If it comes to soldering, the best tips I can give is to invest in a decent soldering iron with a sharp tip and low wattage. Even better is a soldering station that allows you to control the heat (either analog or digital). Other than that, practice a lot, and the soldering itself will become real easy =)

[Martijn Meerts]

And here's a few pictures of my M250 install (and a bonus at the end ;))


This is the M250, for those who haven't seen it yet ;)





This is a closeup of the wire(s) going from the container to the cab. I've painted them grey, and while you can clearly see the wire on the picture, in reality it's not that bad. I had to cut away a bit of plastic to allow the wires to fit. The other option is to lead the wires down alongside the driveshaft, but you need to glue the wire down in that case to make sure it won't ever get caught up in the driveshaft.





The decoder fits nicely inside the container. Grey and orange go to the motor which is right underneith the decoder. Red and black go to the power pickup strips which are right below the plastic frame. White, yellow and blue go to the cab, where blue is common return, and white and yellow are direction dependent lights (white headlights, red taillights thing)





With the cab removed you can see where the white, yellow and blue wires go. I flipped the white LED to make sure both the white and red LED have a common anode. The biggest problem here was that the etched copper tracks on the circuit board were very flimsy, and they had a tendency to come off the actual board. I had to glue them back in place here and there.





Same as the previous, but a top-down view.







As for the bonus, the following is a Lenz Gold Mini decoder in a Kiha02 railbus. The issue here is that there is limited space, plus that the railbus has direction dependent light, meaning it has both white and red LED's on both ends. If you look closely, you can see a very thin copper wire, that one connects the correct LED's on both ends ;) It actually works like this, but the problem is that light spills into the cab and out the sides, so I need to work a bit on the black isolation tape. If you want fiddly decoder installs though, those railbusses are probably a good candidate. Best thing is, I have 6 of them, all of which need a decoder .... The railbus is an entire 6.5cm long btw =)

[Bernard]

hbr245b,
How was the programming after the install was done and what system do you use?

Martijn - Your work is amazing! I looks like the train came with the decoder already installed, I can't see a drop of solder and all the wires are evenly cut. Thanks for posting the photos!

[acousticco]

Martijn, I can't believe you got a decoder into one of those tiny railbusses!  Is there still enough room inside for the weight?  I would be worried it wouldn't run as well without it.

-Cody

[Martijn Meerts]

Bernard, thanks =) Some of the installs are quite okay. As mentioned in another thread, I generally de-solder the wires from the decoder, and solder the wires to wherever they should go first. Then I cut the wires to length and re-solder them to the decoder. It takes a bit of practice, but with a good soldering iron it's very doable. The biggest problem is usually the blue wire on the Lenz Gold Mini's, since that one's connected to a tiny diode.



Cody, as it is now, there's no room for the weight anymore unfortunately. I'm still working on the railbus, trying to figure out what to do with it. It doesn't run very well now (although that might be partially due to dirt, dust and cat hairs ;)), and I can't fit in one of those Power1 modules by Lenz (basically just a capacitor that stores a few seconds worth of power.) I need to do some more experimenting here.

Some of the options would be to try and fit the decoder on top of the weight, or cut a piece out of the weight so that it'll fit on top of the decoder. Another option would be to just glue some lead on the underside of the shell.

[hbr245b]

I'm using a Digitrax Zephyr.

To be honest the programming is a bit of a nightmare. I'm certain that my programming track is correctly connected but cannot read or write any values to the Nozomi (can't read or write to any other decoders either).

I was able to program the Nozomi on the "main" (and other decoders) but the problem is that I have set the id of the decoder to an unknown value so it's currently out of commission! I cannot reset the decoder as the programming track won't work. Catch 22.

I have seen a tip to use 1K Ohm 1/4-Watt resistor on the programming track. Trip to RadioShack later today. Otherwise will be contacting Digitrax tomorrow.

[Bernard]

hbr245b,
I'm using the Lenz 100 system and when I first set up my tracks, I made a block for programming but I was having problems. I called Tony @ Tony's train exchange and he told me to make a separate track (or spur) just for programming, away from the main line. Then he said, use "16 gauge wire" connected directly to that track. I took his advice but instead I took a piece of track, mounted it on a block of wood, solder 16 gauge wire to it and program the trains there. I've never had a problem since.

[CaptOblivious]

I'm using a Digitrax Zephyr.

To be honest the programming is a bit of a nightmare. I'm certain that my programming track is correctly connected but cannot read or write any values to the Nozomi (can't read or write to any other decoders either).

I was able to program the Nozomi on the "main" (and other decoders) but the problem is that I have set the id of the decoder to an unknown value so it's currently out of commission! I cannot reset the decoder as the programming track won't work. Catch 22.

I have seen a tip to use 1K Ohm 1/4-Watt resistor on the programming track. Trip to RadioShack later today. Otherwise will be contacting Digitrax tomorrow.

Greetings fellow Zephyr user! I know you said you are certain the programming track is connected properly, but I once had similar problems and thought the same. Notice that the leads for the programming track on the Zephyr unit are split by the ground lead:

trk+ trk- prg+ grn prg- jmp1 jmp2

or something very similar to that. My programming track was wired one to a programming lead, the other to the ground, which ended up quietly frying my decoders somehow.

That said, if you are right, and it really is correct, this is a major issue, and you are right to call Digitrax at this point...I hope it turns out well for you!

[hbr245b]

I doubled checked the wiring (again!) after reading your message and I'm 100% certain that it's correct.

I contacted Digitrax support via email yesterday (Sunday) and had a response by 9.45 EDT on Monday. Very impressed so far.

My email included details that when I placed the Nozomi 500 on the programming track, the interior lights lit up. I questioned whether this was normal behaviour.

Digitrax are having me send the Zephyr back to them for repair.

[CaptOblivious]

That is not normal behavior. The programming track does not provide power, except during the transmission of a CV value...which is just that brief period after you press cv-wr. Oh my! Digitrax tech support are really good, as is their customer service generally, so I expect things will turn out well!

[alpineaustralia]

I just bought a Kato 500 series on ebay which was described as "New in Box" and had not been converted to DCC.
I received it today and saw that someone had installed a decoder in the motor carriage. When I oped her up, this was the sight that I saw....


Martijn, Capt O, you have some stiff competition for the world's best decoder install! 

[CaptOblivious]

My decoder installs are crap, I make no claim to their quality  ;) —although I am fastidious about my solder-work, at least. I'm not sure I can say the same about this one  :-\. What is that free-floating blob of solder? What's up with the red wire? Maybe the pictures are deceiving, but that really doesn't look like very good solder-work at all. I don't want to unnecessarily worry you though. It does run at least?

EDIT: My sarcasm detectors are defective today! Forgive me  :D Can it be fixed? Removed at least? Did you at least get a good price?

[Bernard]

alpineaustrailia,
Wow, I don't know how some people can have the nerve to do something like that. What if you planned on running it DC and not DCC?

Wait a minute, looking at the photo again, did the seller cut the brass terminals coming from the motor when they installed the decoder? Good luck with whatever you decide to do and keep us posted on what happens with it.

[alpineaustralia]

The fact is I dont know if it works at all.
It didnt work when I put it on the tracks and addressed the commands to Loco 3 (ie. the default address).
I will try addresses 5, 50 and 500 given that it is 500 series shinkansen.
In the meantime, I am waiting for the ebay seller to get back to me with the address aswell as how she hopes to redress the situation.
I paid about 60% of the current retail price for a new one. But for this "discount", I will have to uninstall the decoder, clean a lot of crap off the wheels (this train has never ever been cleaned) and try to locate a replacement pantograph   - all of these defects were not consistent  with the "New in Box" Grade 9 description of the train.
I have so far bought all of my train stuff on ebay and so far this is the first real disappointment.

I'll keep you posted guys. 

[Martijn Meerts]

I think I'll give up installing decoders, because obviously I'm nowhere near as good as the person who installed that 500 series one ;)

I know that Tomix is very good with spare parts, so I'd expect Kato to be no different. I needed a replacement bogie not that long ago, after a coupling had broken off. I got a new one, free of charge, within 4 weeks time.

I think I posted some 800 series install shots, also a Kato. That one and the 500 series install are very similar, so you could have a look there. Not saying that how I installed it is the best way, but it works ;)

[hbr245b]

That is not normal behavior. The programming track does not provide power, except during the transmission of a CV value...which is just that brief period after you press cv-wr. Oh my! Digitrax tech support are really good, as is their customer service generally, so I expect things will turn out well!

I've just had an email from Digitrax that my Zephyr is on its way back. They've had it for well over a month! And of course, it's guaranteed NOT to arrive before the weekend. Still, I just ordered a Kato E4 from MB Klein so maybe that will arrive before the weekend!

[CaptOblivious]

That is not normal behavior. The programming track does not provide power, except during the transmission of a CV value...which is just that brief period after you press cv-wr. Oh my! Digitrax tech support are really good, as is their customer service generally, so I expect things will turn out well!

I've just had an email from Digitrax that my Zephyr is on its way back. They've had it for well over a month! And of course, it's guaranteed NOT to arrive before the weekend. Still, I just ordered a Kato E4 from MB Klein so maybe that will arrive before the weekend!

Excellent! Let us know how it goes. I love that Kato E4, just got one myself...

[alpineaustralia]

I have a Kato E4 with the plug n' play Kato decoders (29-351, 29-352 and 29-353) and I couldnt be happier.
I am not sure whether they (as a cominbation work) better than the Digitrax decoders or whether it is just that I seem to install the digitrax decoders in older trains (ie Kato TGV and Tomix 300). 

[Martijn Meerts]

As far as I know, the Kato decoders are simplified versions of Digitrax decoders. Digitrax designed the circuit board and the programming etc, but Kato manufactures them.

[alpineaustralia]

Vourdan har du det Martijn
I guess then it must be that I am installing the digitrax decoders in older trains (ie Kato TGV and Tomix 300).   

[Martijn Meerts]

I know that Kato and Digitrax have some sort of an agreement. Digitrax also makes a lot of drop-in decoder boards for American prototype Kato locomotives.

As for Digitrax having designed the Kato decoders, I got that from someone on a mailing list when Kato first announced the decoders.

But, it seems that decoders aren't always the same. For example, you can have 2 decoders of the same brand and same type, build them into 2 trains of the same brand and same type, and they can still show quite a difference in running characteristics. That's a reason why I'm slightly hesitant to convert my 0 and 100 series Tomix shinkansen, as they each have 2 motorized cars.

[alpineaustralia]

Hey guys. I finally settled with the ebay seller that sold me the dud Kato 500 shinkansen.
She was actually quite good to deal with and I believe that she didnt know what she was selling
I got a $45 credit so the train cost me $70 (+postage).
Now to cleaning the wheels and installing a new decoder. I have ordered a few DZ143s.
Can anyone recommend anything to clean wheels?

On another note, I used WD-40 on the bogie of an old E1 shinkansen which squeaked like crazy and laboured to move. Mate, it worked a treat and is now super quiet and flies around the track. I can certainly recommend it.

[CaptOblivious]

Hey guys. I finally settled with the ebay seller that sold me the dud Kato 500 shinkansen.
She was actually quite good to deal with and I believe that she didnt know what she was selling
I got a $45 credit so the train cost me $70 (+postage).
Now to cleaning the wheels and installing a new decoder. I have ordered a few DZ143s.
Can anyone recommend anything to clean wheels?

That is great news! What a good deal, even with the bum install. If you're going to do a thorough cleaning, I remove the bogies, disassemble, and clean the wheels individually with cotton swabs dipped in isopropyl alcohol. Tedious, but effective, and works on non-powered cars too.

On another note, I used WD-40 on the bogie of an old E1 shinkansen which squeaked like crazy and laboured to move. Mate, it worked a treat and is now super quiet and flies around the track. I can certainly recommend it.

Just remember that WD-40 is a solvent—which is why it's so good at removing squeaks, it just powers things clean—and not a lubricant, so you should apply lubricant after doing this.

[hbr245b]

Excellent! Let us know how it goes. I love that Kato E4, just got one myself...

Got the Zephyr back from Digitrax. Programming track now works fine.

I did however manage to fry the decoder in my Kato 500 while fitting interior LED lights :-( Back to square one now.

The Kato E4 also arrived and it's great so far. I had a Kato 29-351 decoder on hand and it installed easily. Where's a good source in  the USA of 29-352 & 29-353 decoders?

[alpineaustralia]

For 29-252 and 29-353 try:

http://www.modeltrainwarehouse.com

Recently, they had them in stock for a while but dont know if they still have them.

[alpineaustralia]

[Just remember that WD-40 is a solvent—which is why it's so good at removing squeaks, it just powers things clean—and not a lubricant, so you should apply lubricant after doing this.][/quote]

Thans for the tip on the isopropyl alcohol. I know that someone recently recommended a US product for lubricating the motor bushes etc. Can anyone recommend a generic product that I can buy in Oz? The post won't send liquids etc through the post. 

[Bernard]

hbr245b - That is great news about your Zephyr system. I have found that Digitrax has an excellent customer support.
Now, the decoder that you fried was it a Digitrax decoder like the DZ125 or DZ123 or any other Digitrax decoders? Digitrax has an excellent return policy if it's solely one of their decoders.
Unfortunately as CaptO found out they don't support the Kato decoders. Here is the Digitrax link but you probably know this from the Zephyr repair.

http://www.digitrax.com/warranty3.php

aplineaustralia - you'll lucky you got an honest ebay seller and got a really good deal on the 500 Shinkansen! Is it working after you re-installed the decoder? I'm going to start a new topic on lubricants, I just went through a similar experience.

[alpineaustralia]

What was your experience Bernard?

[Bernard]

I not only fried one DZ123 decoder a couple of months ago but two. I saw the return policy and said, what do I have to lose. So I returned them with all the all the information that was required. A couple of weeks latter two DZ123 decoders arrive at my door, no questions asked. I've heard from other modelers that Digitrax's customer service is excellent.

I'll see again if it's excellent, you got it, I got a defective DZ125 decoder this time.

[Martijn Meerts]

I know Lenz has a similar policy. If a decoder stops working you can send it back for a replacement (at least, in Europe you can.) I haven't tried this myself, even though I did burn my first decoder. The shipping, handling and import taxes would cost about as much as a new decoder...

I think quite a few decoder manufacturers do it actually, they hardly loose any money on it, since decoders are dirt cheap to manufacture.

[alpineaustralia]

Bernard, you said that you just went through a similar experience to my ebay experience. What happened? Was it the dud decoders?

I just sent back to Digitrax a Dz125 because the motor functions didnt work. I now realise that infact I just may not have isolated the notor properly. Oops! Hopefully, they wont charge for my......oversight.

[alpineaustralia]

Got to love Digitrax. They sent back a brand new Dz125 in place of my old one. Charged me $17 but then again they could have told me wasnt covered by waranty and charged me the full retail price. For customer service they get an A+.

[alpineaustralia]

"That is great news! What a good deal, even with the bum install. If you're going to do a thorough cleaning, I remove the bogies, disassemble, and clean the wheels individually with cotton swabs dipped in isopropyl alcohol. Tedious, but effective, and works on non-powered cars too."

Capt - cleaned the bogies as suggest with iso propyl alcohol. Not only does it cut throughtb the grime (where does the grime come from?) but the wheels actually look brand spanking new. The change in performance is noticeable. Great tip Capt and thanks greatly. 

[CaptOblivious]

Capt - cleaned the bogies as suggest with iso propyl alcohol. Not only does it cut throughtb the grime (where does the grime come from?) but the wheels actually look brand spanking new. The change in performance is noticeable. Great tip Capt and thanks greatly.

I wonder too where that gunk comes from. I guess it's just floating around in the air...? Dunno. Anyway, you're welcome! I learned the alcohol thing when I was a system admin: It's the easiest way to clean grimy computer mice! A little experimentation over the years revealed that it's really good for cleaning lots of things that pick up mysterious grime.

[Martijn Meerts]

The grime is a combination of oil residue and mostly human skin particles ;)

The oil residue can be either from locomotives that have recently been oiled/greased, or they're leftovers from the manufacturing process. A lot of cleaning liquids are also not cleaning liquids as all, but rather conductive oils, which means that trains will run after "cleaning" the track, but it'll also attract far more dust.

[alpineaustralia]

mostly skin particles huh? that's truly disgusting because that stuff was caked on pretty hard on that 500.
BTW has anyone used the Tomix or Atlas cleaning car?
Can anyone suggest or recommend it?

How do you drive it - do you need a DCC loco as well as a decoder in the cleaning car etc ?
 

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, skin particles are one of the major components of dust ;)

The Tomix cleaning car is quite good if it comes to the vacuum cleaner part. I haven't extensively tested the other options. I did a quick run with the grinding pads, and they definitely picked up a lot of dirt.

You can run it without decoder, but it'll run at max speed all the time. The problem with that is not only the noise, but it'll also overheat. There's a protection circuit in there which shuts down the motor if it starts overheating. Set it aside for a while, and you can use it again for a few minutes. Adding a decoder is quite easy though. It does need a locomotive as well, as the motor inside the cleaning car is only used for the vacuum and grinding/polishing discs.

[hbr245b]

I returned my fried DZ123 decoder back to Digitrax and received a new one in the post a couple of weeks later. Top marks for Digitrax!

[Bernard]

Digitrax has one of the best customer service support systems. You think you're going to get a lot of "red tape" and you don't. You only hope most manufactures are like Digitrax when it comes to returns. I also got a new DZ123 decoder in the mail after sending back a fried one. No questions asked.

Oh, I think Digitrax is phasing out the DZ123 decoder and replacing it was a DZ125 model. It's "new and improved" which also means 5 bucks more. ::) (Whenever I hear that phrase, "new & improved" in any ad, I always wonder what were manufacturers selling us before, "old and crummy" ;D)

[alpineaustralia]

Matey - I have installed both the DZ123 and the DZ125 and the only difference is that they seem to have shaved off a little of the length bit otherwise the new and improved is lost on me. In fact, I have made a habit of searching for the DZ123 because retailers seem to be dumping them to clear old stock as cheap as US$15 while the DZ125 seems to be going for about US $22 to 25.

Agree on your comments re Digitrax.  The only thing I would say it that they seem to me (based on my extremely limited experience) to fry very quickly. It seems we have all returned them after accidentally frying them despite the decoders having a mechanism that shuts them down when there is a short.

I am only conjecturing, but that may be why we are seeing such largess from them.