Finally... a plan!

[Darren Jeffries]

So guys, finally i have an initial plan in mind. Kato track plan 615 is going to be the basis for my layout. It will be somewhat modified to include a local tram loop and also a storage yard.

I plan to initially lay it down as a temporary layout until i am completely happy, then will work to draw up more realistic and detailed scenery plans...

Here is where i need your help... how can i adapt this plan so I can run a storage yard off. I want 12 roads in the yard and the building i am going to house this in is 20'1 ft by 10'1 ft.

Also I do wonder if the measurements given on the plan are for the baseboard area and not the whole track area which is a little smaller.

So peeps.... thoughts?

[ChrisV]

Nice ideas there.
Looks something to what I am doing at the moment.

Keep us posted

[disturbman]

Nice plan, pack with action. I'm not sure where you are going to have room for a city or even a tram loop here but, okay. The same goes for the 12 tracks yard. This is huge!!! Maybe you can fit him on the left where everything is empty. Maybe you can even split him in two yards. There is allready some storage tracks (5 I think) in the midle of the layout and two near the main station.

[disturbman]

Yeah, maybe you should take of the tracks and the yard in the middle of the layout and put him, the yard, on the left side.

[Darren Jeffries]

My plan was to take out the storage yards in the middle, making a unbroken loop. Also the storage yards near the station on the far right of the plan can come out. I will have 9 feet or so of space on the end of the layout that i can accomodate a storage yard in, but I am trying to figure out how to spur off the two distinct loops into a storage yard (which will be hidden by a Hill/Mountain.)

As I said, I am only using this plan as a basis and with the storage tracks gone from the middle of the layout, there should be plenty of room for a city scene.

One thought i had was to have the tram track running from the far bottom to the centre station so I can connect with a Faller cable car kit i plan to put in the mountain.

[Darren Jeffries]

Here's a VERY crude idea of what i plan... sorry for the bad drawing using paint!!!!

As you can see, this leaves lots of space for a city scene and room to think about a tram line... not sure if a loop will work, maybe end to end across the front?

[Shashinka]

Whoa, that;'s a lot of Unitrack to that plan.

[Darren Jeffries]

Whoa, that;'s a lot of Unitrack to that plan.

It is... and i figured from going through Hobbysearch that its £900 minimum. However If i can replace some of the less visible stuff with finescale, it should be less.

[Bernard]

Congratulations on getting the "real estate" to start your dream layout!
I do have a couple of questions:

1) What are the dimensions of this layout for benchwork?
2) Will this layout be "free standing" or built up against a wall?

Third question since I just saw your last post,
Is money a factor for track since there is a lot of Unitrack involved.
Why I ask this is you might save yourself some money if you go to Peco Flex track instead. The sections are longer, it looks fantastic and they make bullet proof turnouts. Plus you have the added bonus I don't have, it's made in England and it will be easy for you to get.

[disturbman]

You want to break the "Shinkansen" loop with a spur going to the yard? Is that even remotely possible on a viaduc?

I'm still thinking "out loud"... I don't know the pieces but maybe you can spur it from the station connecting the outer track's turnout with another turnout leading toward the yard. But that's very crude and I'm sure not prototypical at all.

Usually HST yard are situated on the ground, not far away from normal train yard and near big stations. Maybe then you should think about of a way of joining the two stations, the shinkanse one and the not shinkansen one, in a bigger one.

:)

[Darren Jeffries]

Congratulations on getting the "real estate" to start your dream layout!
I do have a couple of questions:

1) What are the dimensions of this layout for benchwork?
2) Will this layout be "free standing" or built up against a wall?

Bernard, I figure the benchwork is 11.5ft by nearly 8ft with the layout slightly smaller. The "hobby shed" is 20x10 so should be just big enough to walk around it, so freestanding. Come to think of it, thats going to be tight. May need to rethink the shed to a 20x12.

You want to break the "Shinkansen" loop with a spur going to the yard? Is that even remotely possible on a viaduc?

I'm still thinking "out loud"... I don't know the pieces but maybe you can spur it from the station connecting the outer track's turnout with another turnout leading toward the yard. But that's very crude and I'm sure not prototypical at all.

Usually HST yard are situated on the ground, not far away from normal train yard and near big stations. Maybe then you should think about of a way of joining the two stations, the shinkanse one and the not shinkansen one, in a bigger one.

:)

Vince, Maybe joining the two stations to make one big station is a good idea... got me thinking. That would allow for a hidden spur inside the mountain. I dont plan to have a shinkansen yard as part of the visual element of the layout, and will be more of a hidden fiddleyard.

[Bernard]

Bernard, I figure the benchwork is 11.5ft by nearly 8ft with the layout slightly smaller. The "hobby shed" is 20x10 so should be just big enough to walk around it, so freestanding.

Darren - One rule of thumb is not to make a layout more than 4ft in width if it's free standing, 3ft if it's against a wall.  It really becomes a pain when you start laying track and working on scenery, you are constantly walking around the benchwork trying to reach areas and with an 8ft wideth it might be very difficult. I'm basing this on my first layout, it was a constant pain, and that was a 16'x5' rectangle free standing, I was constantly on a step stood.
I'm basing this from the plan that the benchwork will be a rectangle.  Is the original plan based on the 11.5' x 8'?

[Darren Jeffries]

hmmm... food for thought. Back to the drawing board... well i'll stick with 20x10 and see what i can come up with.

[disturbman]

Darren, what Bernard says is true but if you have a whole shed for yourself and your layout then you will be able to make it a "around the walls".

[scott]

I can't believe I'm about to say this about a layout with £900 worth of Unitrack, but--it looks like it could use some more track. :)

If you have trains long enough to fill that large station, then you only have about 2-3 train-lengths of track before they're back in the station again. If the elevated line ran farther toward the edges of the table, you might get some more running time.

That said, Bernard's idea is worth thinking about, too--a 3-foot-deep layout around the walls of a 20x10 shed would leave you a four-foot walkway in the middle. But you might need some narrower spots for turnarounds.

Anyway--I don't mean to sound critical--it looks like a lot of fun!

[Darren Jeffries]

Guys,

This is the shed... gives more idea of where the tracks would end in relation to the doors.

http://www.cdiscount.co.uk/Product/zoom.aspx?ProductId=183873

[disturbman]

You could really make it an "around the walls" layout with breakable trackage along the doors so you can enter and have a complete loop when they are closed. 

At the far end, far from the doors, you put the core of the layout. The city, the tram loop and the station will be there and you use the other walls for the loop and maybe a suburban station.

Yeah, I'm stopping right here. Other wise I will go to far from what you had in mind... What? I've allready done that. Sorry. 

[scott]

Darren--

This is a really crude drawing, I know, but -- here's a comparison of a three-foot-deep "along the walls" setup in that shed, versus the table layout in the track plan above (shown in dashed lines). The 3-foot depth should be enough for 180-degree turns at the ends with the 15"/16.5"-radius double track.

[Tenorikuma]

I can't believe I'm about to say this about a layout with £900 worth of Unitrack, but--it looks like it could use some more track. :)

How much do you pay for track? The total given on that sheet is about $300 worth.

[Darren Jeffries]

I can't believe I'm about to say this about a layout with £900 worth of Unitrack, but--it looks like it could use some more track. :)

How much do you pay for track? The total given on that sheet is about $300 worth.

Even if those prices on the sheet were accurate (which they are not as hobby search are a little cheaper) the cost would be:

248,441 Japanese Yen = 1,561.92 British Pound

So.... if you can tell me where to get that amount of track for $300, i'll jump at the chance!!!!!

[Darren Jeffries]

Darren--

This is a really crude drawing, I know, but -- here's a comparison of a three-foot-deep "along the walls" setup in that shed, versus the table layout in the track plan above (shown in dashed lines). The 3-foot depth should be enough for 180-degree turns at the ends with the 15"/16.5"-radius double track.

Scott, thanks for this, I would even consider helixing down to a storage yard to save space for the layout.

[disturbman]

Helixing?! Now, that's a good idea if you can do it.

[Tenorikuma]

248,441 Japanese Yen = 1,561.92 British Pound

So.... if you can tell me where to get that amount of track for $300, i'll jump at the chance!!!!!

My mistake, I was looking at the wrong number! 

[Darren Jeffries]

248,441 Japanese Yen = 1,561.92 British Pound

So.... if you can tell me where to get that amount of track for $300, i'll jump at the chance!!!!!

My mistake, I was looking at the wrong number! 

Doh! I was getting my hopes up there that you could get me a deal! ;-)

[Shashinka]

LOL, too many currency conversions going on.

[Darren Jeffries]

Ok, well heres a rather crude plan of the benchwork... yes i have no cad skills (or software!)

The plan for the shed had to be revised to 20x8. This still allows  for 2 feet of walkway between the benches.

The green is supposed to represent a hilly area where i can hide some spurs off to a helix downward to a lower storage yard. So in total end to end it gives me 48 feet of track run and looping would obviously double that.

Now to work out a track plan... I want (yes thanks vince) a multi line local/shinkansen station... thought maybe have a double level station.

A tram line from somewhere into the city to the hill to link up with a cable car system is a must too. I want to include a fairly densely packed city side and a more rural side.

[disturbman]

So it seems that the mountain should be used as a divider between the two sides of your layout, city and rural... Or should the city build at the foot of the mountain... The idea of the mountain, the city and the cable car reminds me a lot of Hakodate.

[scott]

The plan for the shed had to be revised to 20x8. This still allows  for 2 feet of walkway between the benches.

You could curve the outer edges of the benchwork inward in a spot or two, to make passing places for bipeds. :)

[Bernard]

Darren - Is the Landlord, aka the wife, giving you the whole shed? If so I would do some serious advance planning.
I wouldn't use the entire shed for just the layout, consider using an area along the wall for your work bench, this will be a vital element for you layout and you probably be doing most of your work here.
I would do a wall mounted layout with angle brackets coming off the wall this will give you easy access to the wiring underneath plus storage.
Think also about a "free form" style bench work with curves using a facia board, this material easily bends and I would use it on the corners of your shed so that they curve and the corners aren't angular. With this type of layout you can do beautiful backdrops to enhance your scenery. (Clouds, distant structures, etc.)
I would start checking out prices of wood at your local lumber yard, and put together a list of materials you will need for your bench work, wood can be expensive.

Best of luck you must be excited!

[disturbman]

Oky, I'm still plyaing with the idea of a big loop using a duck under or some other device. I'm conviced that it will help you greatly.

In black: the Shinkansen line
In grey: the local lines
In pink: the tram
The big blue/white thing being the stations.

Then you can really work on everything, maybe loose the upper right spur to accomodate some work place or others.

[Darren Jeffries]

Bernard,

Yes I have got the whole shed, it is going to be purpose bought just for my hobbies. I will have some high shelves in there too for my model aircraft.

I wont need any workbench space because as you can see from the pics, I have two other sheds. The new shed will go onto the side of the double door shed you see in the picture. The smaller shed houses the tools (Household tools, lawnmower etc... ) the double door shed at the moment has got my unstarted model kits and some general junk... the junk needs getting rid of anyway so one half of that is going to be my workbench area for all my modelmaking.

Vince, I was inspired by the memories of Nagano... i remember seeing some cable cars and skiiers... but this mountain is going to be fairly green...

The idea is to use the mountain to split the layout as you say. Also to hide the spur to a helix down. I will try and utilise Bernards removable mountaintop technique as well.

Scott... I did think of almost splitting the rural side in two leaving enough support only for a bridge but actually i might use that idea for a removable section as vince has suggested....

Great ideas guys....

[Martijn Meerts]

So, you're really Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson then? ;)

[disturbman]

Some ressources for the helix.

[disturbman]

Some ressource for the removable thingie or other device, a dropdown gate.

[disturbman]

And maybe you should think to transform your shed(s) into that. 

[Shashinka]

Darren, how's the weather going to affect things as the layout won't be in a client controlled location? I know out little layout at the railroad and the track likes to do all sorts of funky things between summer and winter plus the humidity and lack thereof?

[Bernard]

Darren - Any Updates on the layout?