Help: Danish Exhibition

[Martijn Meerts]

Hmm.. Quite tempting to go to that exhibition.. Not too much of a problem getting there (boat to Copenhagen, train to Århus), but I'll be moving back to the Netherlands later this year, so I might want to save the money.... Hmmmmmm ;)

[Bernard]

Brian - If you pay for Marti's transportation to the show, he can watch your layout while you go to the bathroom and maybe, just maybe even get a sandwich. 

[disturbman]

And beer! Don't forget the beers with the sandwich. It's the most important friendship sealer in this area of the word. 

[cteno4]

Brian,

here is what i was talking about in the folded figure 8, but if your table is only 110cm wide it might be tight.

http://japanrailmodelers.org/layout/newlayout/outerloop.jpg

in the center area there we have the small, tighter radius local loop that we put the smaller, mainly interurban trains on. this inner loop can either be run as a loop or as a figure 8. these are pretty complex designs and could be simplified a lot if you want something that are not just ovals

http://japanrailmodelers.org/layout/newlayout/innerlayout.jpg

you may want to spread your storage tracks out some as well around your loops. this helps you bring things in and out in different ways and spreads the train viewing out around the layout. yards tend to only let you see the outside train and the lead cars on the rest of the tracks. you especially want to put cars with interesting decorations on the cars (ie anime trains) out on sidings that are really visible as the kids love to see all the cars on these!

this all might be too much too late to try. if so i would say then just simplify where you can for the first exhibition. keep it clean and simple. the big rule i have learned to live by is be consistent. try to do every thing to about the same level and quality. if you can only do B+ work with your time/resources then do everything at B+ than the visitor will always bump you up a notch if you are consistent. if you do some at A and some at C what they usually remember is the C work even though they liked the A work and usually knock you down then for not doing all A work! not to say you cant throw a few jewels in there now and then, just dont want large glaring swings in the level or quality you do things at by trying to do too much and then not being able to follow through so well on some parts.

getting too many trains running may just overwhelm folks. this is a problem in modern exhibit design as well as public exhibits seem to be on an arms race to be bigger, flashier, louder, than the next one. just ends up over stimulating and stunning the visitor. i saw this big time at the chicago museum of science and industry where there are gobs and gobs of flashy exhibits and interactives screaming at you from all angles. when standing back in galleries and watching the visitor reactions i saw hardly any of them spending more than 10 seconds at any station/graphic/interactive before having their attention ripped away by something else. this meant hardly any message could be delivered let alone set into memory.

its nice to give folks a chance to slowly move through your exhibit and keep finding interesting things and also be able to easily focus on one train at a time running. if each line is doing something different then it give the visitor something to focus on and remember as something unique.

you also dont want to have to have all your attention trying to keep 8 lines running, as a lot of the fun is interacting with the visitors and also just watching their reactions. really try to take time to observe the visitors, its amazing what you can learn from them just by watching their reactions and you also get some of the best compensation this way. seeing the glow in a little kids eyes (or even better seeing those little kids excited eyes popping back in an adult!) is a great feeling and make it worth all the trouble you will go through to do this!

I really second Doug's comments that you really should try to get someone to join you at the show even if you have to pay some expenses or something as it could make the difference between you having a good time and going mad! even if a few different people can come for a couple of hours just to spell you for bathroom breaks and food (have them run only a couple of trains maybe if they dont know much about running trains). does the exhibition not have security at night? usually ours do and we have never had a problem of something going poof.

you want this to be a fun and rewarding experience, not something that ends up being an awful pain so see what you can do to get some help if possible. the more you enjoy doing it this time the more you will want to do it again!

cheers

jeff

ps and ahhh yes dont forget the beers...

[Bernard]

Jeff - I've been searching over the internet to come up with design ideas to help Brian, and your's are the best I've seen for this type of operation. It has the continuous running and Brian can shorten the lenght at the straight sections to accomendate his space.
Brian, I'd would have a go at it, you can always do alterations on the layout, that's the beauty of Unitrack.

Jeff - your design makes for an interesting "permanent" layout.

 

[domino]

ok guy`s

I dont quit agree with some of you , i personaly think that having as many trains running as posssible and showing the rest in the front is the way to go for a first time Japanese layout, althoug i see your point by hidding trains behinde the building and then bring then in front one by one.
I dont see the point hidding the yard if people are allowed to all around the layout(all 4 sides), actually i dont know yet if they can go around the layout, im stil waiting for the floor plan for the exhibition.
Folks, am i totally of , by having all trains in the front  and 8 trains running at one time ?

Brian

[cteno4]

Jeff - your design makes for an interesting "permanent" layout.

I cant take credit for these plans! These plans were designed by Matthew Davis of JRM for the club. He is a really talented track plan designer!

cheers,

jeff

[domino]

Hmm.. Quite tempting to go to that exhibition.. Not too much of a problem getting there (boat to Copenhagen, train to Århus), but I'll be moving back to the Netherlands later this year, so I might want to save the money.... Hmmmmmm ;)

Hey Martijn.

Your are more than welcome to stop by, beer and sandwich is on me, but boat and train ticket , your are on you own  , sorry, cant afford it.

Brian

[cteno4]

Brian,

thats totally cool, you need to do what you think is best and makes you happy first! its you putting all the effort into this, the rest of us are just armchairing it! Its good to gather others experiences, but you also need to discover what works best for you.

Do take as much time as you can and watch your audience's reactions and learn from it. best loop you can do in your design. My clients are always paying huge bucks for evaluations and i can usually give them the conclusions from half a day of observation that the $10K evaluation give them (ive done this in the sealed envelope as a test in the past and won) and usually find a lot of detailed good and bads that the evaluation misses.

best of luck and have loads of fun and take some pictures and post!

cheers

jeff

ok guy`s

I dont quit agree with some of you , i personaly think that having as many trains running as posssible and showing the rest in the front is the way to go for a first time Japanese layout, althoug i see your point by hidding trains behinde the building and then bring then in front one by one.
I dont see the point hidding the yard if people are allowed to all around the layout(all 4 sides), actually i dont know yet if they can go around the layout, im stil waiting for the floor plan for the exhibition.
Folks, am i totally of , by having all trains in the front  and 8 trains running at one time ?

Brian

[domino]

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT MY LATEST SKY SCRABER

[Darren Jeffries]

Will be nice with some detail. Looks a little like the petronas towers in malaysia.

[cteno4]

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT MY LATEST SKY SCRABER

interesting! they need a base structure to rise out of, maybe a plaza on the roof if it?

are the towers translucent plex? if so you might try printing out some grid patterns maybe dark square windows and white frames between (just thin lines), roll them up and put them inside to see if you can make a hit of interior framing for the windows. even some of the darkest most un-detailed high rises at least have some window trim/framing visible.

skyscrapers are fun to play with as there are a lot of tricks to mimic the structure w/o having to do a lot of fine detail. works really well if they are a bit in the back of the layout as they make a very dramatic backdrop and skyline!

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

It like a good movie or a show, you always let the audience see a little bit at a time, it keeps them interested and you're drawing them in. If you show them everything in one big shot, you have nothing left to offer them.

I was discussing your layout with a fellow modeller and he had a piece of interesting advice that I'll pass on to you, because you don't want to fix your layout down to the base, how about adding velcro buttons to the bottom of the Unitrack and the base, this will temporarily hold your track down at the exhibition, plus you'll know where to place your pieces of track.

[disturbman]

Side not: please people don't use capitals to write whole words or sentences. It's like you are screaming. It's very, for me, unpleasant.

[domino]

Side not: please people don't use capitals to write whole words or sentences. It's like you are screaming. It's very, for me, unpleasant.

unpleasant, how ??
it was a mistake , my caps lock was on, sorry.

Brian

[Darren Jeffries]

Side not: please people don't use capitals to write whole words or sentences. It's like you are screaming. It's very, for me, unpleasant.

unpleasant, how ??
it was a mistake , my caps lock was on, sorry.

Brian

Dont worry, these things happen. I once typed a whole long and involved email before i realised caps lock was on... i couldnt be bothered to change it then!!!

Back on topic. It would be good to add a base as Jeff suggested, also maybe create a transparent walkway between the two with some detail. Some lighing inside would then top it off nicely if you have some windows drilled.

[Darren Jeffries]

Will be nice with some detail. Looks a little like the petronas towers in malaysia.

see:

[Bernard]

Brian - One thing I did when I was deciding on which buildings I was going to use on my current layout, salvaging buildings from a previous layout, was to line them up and see how they looked in comparative size.
Then I took the buildings and put them in the area I am going to use them in the layout.
Here are the photos illustrating what I'm describing:
After seeing what they looked like, I decided that the Atlas Hexagon Building was too big for the town I was planning.
In you layout I like the 2 Atlas Buildings you have they fit in with the city scene you're planning but, now take the new double cylinder structure you have and compare it in size to your other buildings, ask yourself these 2 question, does appear to big or does it fit in? And does it draw too much attention to itself?

[domino]

Hey

 A friend of mine made this building just to see how it would look on my layout,actually i dont think it looks that much out of place, i have seen photo of many Japanese city skylines , and they do mix small and big building right next to each other, as some comments also points out.
I agree that i needs detailing,it is deliberately not transparent, he did not have the right materiel  

Brian

[domino]

It like a good movie or a show, you always let the audience see a little bit at a time, it keeps them interested and you're drawing them in. If you show them everything in one big shot, you have nothing left to offer them.

I was discussing your layout with a fellow modeller and he had a piece of interesting advice that I'll pass on to you, because you don't want to fix your layout down to the base, how about adding velcro buttons to the bottom of the Unitrack and the base, this will temporarily hold your track down at the exhibition, plus you'll know where to place your pieces of track.

Velcro, thats a great idea, i will try that.

Brian

[domino]

Hey

Im not sure what you mean" they need a base structure to rise out of, maybe a plaza on the roof if it?"

Could you explain please ?

brian

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT MY LATEST SKY SCRABER

interesting! they need a base structure to rise out of, maybe a plaza on the roof if it?

are the towers translucent plex? if so you might try printing out some grid patterns maybe dark square windows and white frames between (just thin lines), roll them up and put them inside to see if you can make a hit of interior framing for the windows. even some of the darkest most un-detailed high rises at least have some window trim/framing visible.

skyscrapers are fun to play with as there are a lot of tricks to mimic the structure w/o having to do a lot of fine detail. works really well if they are a bit in the back of the layout as they make a very dramatic backdrop and skyline!

cheers

jeff

[domino]

Hey all.

I want to thanks you all for helping me get ready to my first exhibition here in Denmark, i know that i have not commented on all quots posted here, but i have read ALL more than once, and found many useful infomation so please keep them coming.
The Exhibition coordinator is stopping by my house tommorrow for first hand look at my layout, just to see what they can expect at the show, and is very interrested in what a Japanese layout look like 

Thanks again guy`s, keep posting comments.

Brian
domino

[cteno4]

Hey

Im not sure what you mean" they need a base structure to rise out of, maybe a plaza on the roof if it?"

Could you explain please ?

brian

many multiple towers like this are surrounded by a large building(s) at the base. usually its a large area for entrance arcade/atrium to the towers. usually also has shops and restaurants for the workers. sometimes the roofs of the structure at the base between the towers has a plaza/patio on the roof of it for hanging out between the towers. you could also add large skylights this center roof area popping through for more light into the atrium below and they could become sculptural elements on the roof top plaza (turning skylights into sculptural elements above is a standard thing if people are going to be around the skylights above).

if you look at the picture of the petronas towers that darren posted you will see what im talking about. also helps integrate the towers in to the rest of the structures around it in your city and not have them stick out too much (again im a fan of not making one thing scream too loudly or it overwhelms the other elements of your exhibit and also if elements start screaming too much you get into a shouting match in your exhibit and overwhelm your audience easily) and help harmonize them some with the other buildings in your scene.

some towers rise directly out of flat plazas like the world trade center towers did, but the plaza there was large and the minimalism of those towers wanted to have them just go directly into the ground due to the unique exterior vertical lines/supports that yamasaki did.

one cool thing to try when thinking about building size and shape is to just use cardboard and tape or hot glue to whack up some simple space filling models to get an idea of how the overall mass will look where you want it and relation to other buildings you have. you can then refine to see what putting base structures below towers would look like, etc. once you have your size and shape then you can start constructing the real thing. its amazing how fast and easy it is to do and how much you can get out of it. the process can really get misty ideas in your head out and much more solid and though through. even gehry loves to use crumpled paper and masking tape to start shaping his visions (that guy thinks in 5 dimensions so im sure its hell for him to get them out of his head and express them in 3!)

if you know gehry and want a great laugh watch the first 5 minutes of this Simpsons season 16, episode 14, Seven-Beer Snitch its a hoot! A friend worked in gehry's office and it was full of crumpled up piece of paper and tape. took him a few days to realize what was going on. he feel out of his chair when i showed him the episode, hes sure someone from the office must have given groening a lot of input and gehry was a good sport and did his voice!

This can work well for scenery as well, if you want to try a hill some where then just crumple up news paper and strap it down with some masking tape. lets you keep fiddling to find the right shape and also live with it a while before going into construction. running trains through it can change your view of things sometimes or help you find a functional problem with your idea.

sorry the pontificating, i made huge numbers of exhibit and architectural models when i was young and working at the monterey bay aquarium while being designed so i learned the value of this approach big time. even the most talented of designers would at times really blow it as when an idea went into a quick 3d mock up it became apparent it just would not fly. to think of the amount of chipboard, corrugated card board, newsprint, hot glue, tape, and matte knife and xacto blades i went through, but it was all huge return on investment and an incredibly interesting process to iterate through!

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

How did your meeting go with the Exhibition coordinator?

Hey all.

I want to thanks you all for helping me get ready to my first exhibition here in Denmark, i know that i have not commented on all quots posted here, but i have read ALL more than once, and found many useful infomation so please keep them coming.
The Exhibition coordinator is stopping by my house tommorrow for first hand look at my layout, just to see what they can expect at the show, and is very interrested in what a Japanese layout look like 

Thanks again guy`s, keep posting comments.

Brian
domino

[scott]

(again im a fan of not making one thing scream too loudly or it overwhelms the other elements of your exhibit and also if elements start screaming too much you get into a shouting match in your exhibit and overwhelm your audience easily)

That noise you hear in the background is Jeff's espresso machine. 

[bc6]

ok Guy`s

I was thinking, maybe it is best to show as many Japanese trains as possible, keep in mind this is first time ever a Japanese layout is on display in Denmark, on the layout in the attached photo i can run 8 trains at the same time plus 5 trains on side track for show of, ofcourse this leave not much room for building and road system,there will be some building but not all , what do you think, let me hear your thoughts

Regards
brian
domino

domino all I can say is WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW, thats a lot of Kato track. Thats cool because I like Kato Unitrack as much as you do. Im very impressed by your layout and how its been designed. You must post video of trains running on your layout. You have more than enough space to run and store trains for sure.

[domino]

It went very well, he was very exited about my layout, he has never seen anything like it and is very exited to see how the Danish spectators`would react when they see it, as am i 

So all in all i loooks good.
Brian

How did your meeting go with the Exhibition coordinator?

Hey all.

I want to thanks you all for helping me get ready to my first exhibition here in Denmark, i know that i have not commented on all quots posted here, but i have read ALL more than once, and found many useful infomation so please keep them coming.
The Exhibition coordinator is stopping by my house tommorrow for first hand look at my layout, just to see what they can expect at the show, and is very interrested in what a Japanese layout look like 

Thanks again guy`s, keep posting comments.

Brian
domino

[domino]

Thanks for the nice words.
Will post video later today.

Brian
domino

ok Guy`s

I was thinking, maybe it is best to show as many Japanese trains as possible, keep in mind this is first time ever a Japanese layout is on display in Denmark, on the layout in the attached photo i can run 8 trains at the same time plus 5 trains on side track for show of, ofcourse this leave not much room for building and road system,there will be some building but not all , what do you think, let me hear your thoughts

Regards
brian
domino

domino all I can say is WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW, thats a lot of Kato track. Thats cool because I like Kato Unitrack as much as you do. Im very impressed by your layout and how its been designed. You must post video of trains running on your layout. You have more than enough space to run and store trains for sure.

[cteno4]

(again im a fan of not making one thing scream too loudly or it overwhelms the other elements of your exhibit and also if elements start screaming too much you get into a shouting match in your exhibit and overwhelm your audience easily)

That noise you hear in the background is Jeff's espresso machine. 

LOL funny you should say that as this morning the grinder was empty! luckily i found a pound of beans in the cabinet a client sent me! time to do a big bean run! almost a disaster! 5 years of going to grad school in berkeley made my taste buds think starbucks is weak foldgers... An office manager tried to get me fired for using a whole pot pack of restaurant coffee to make a single cup to get something that would come close to tasting like real coffee.

also funny since i had a chat with two other exhibit designers this weekend about shouting exhibits. we were all wondering why the museums cant realize they are digging their own grave by trying to heap more and louder on folks then are surprised there is declining attendance and those attending are walking away with fewer messages and details (big complaint in the museum world). the thought is shout louder and they will hear, but human nature is the opposite. talk calmly and evenly and folks will listen.

jeff

[cteno4]

It went very well, he was very exited about my layout, he has never seen anything like it and is very exited to see how the Danish spectators`would react when they see it, as am i 

So all in all i loooks good.
Brian

Brian,

thats good to hear. the important thing is to have fun too, your audience will tell if you are enjoying what you are doing and it goes a long way to their impression! do take the time to observe the spectators, its the best feed back you can get and their reactions will tell you so much! also its cool to treat this as an experiment and then keep changing as time goes on. thats the cool thing about the build on the fly type exhibits like yours, you can keep changing it to try new things and see what the audience responds best to, as well as keep the display fresh and new. enjoy!

cheers,

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

Like the layout, REALLY like your buildings (although you need to get some different colored paper/paint to differentiate the streets, lawns, etc)..

One question, after looking through your photos: METROLINK goes to Japan now? Really?

[domino]

Like the layout, REALLY like your buildings (although you need to get some different colored paper/paint to differentiate the streets, lawns, etc)..

One question, after looking through your photos: METROLINK goes to Japan now? Really?

 
No the Metrolink does not go to Japan (as far as i know), i just like the train set, so just to see it run i had to put on my Japanese layout along side with the rest, i hope that you dont mind to much

Brian
domino

[domino]

?? How do i post video here ??

brian

[alpineaustralia]

I would gather all of the buildings in one area rather than scatter them. I noticed two building at the end of the layout sitting beyond the "Petronas Towers" by themselves. I would bring them in and instead push the oil tanks out to the edge to create a separate city, industrial area and country area.

[cteno4]

?? How do i post video here ??

brian

probably the easiest way is to make yourself a youtube account and upload them there. then when you put the reference link (the one listed on the video page itself) in your message here, the forum automatically imbeds the video on the page here (or someone can click on it and it opens up the youtube page for it). youtube is probably the easiest way to get video files from your camera up onto the web w/o hassling with much else.

only drawback is (like most social sites now) they do now have rights to do what ever they want to with your content! they can sell it re-edit, whatever. while not much of a concern with video of our trains running around, it is a concern if you have any content you want to keep full rights control on or have included stock footage you have acquired rights to (this is means you dont usually have the rights to give other rights to that stock footage).

cheers,

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

i hope that you dont mind to much

Not at all. I WISH the METROLINK went to Japan - I'd go there more often!

[Shashinka]

Yeah, I got nervous about leaving my Pro-Z overnight at Rockville last year for that same exact reason. I'm hoping I have money come in so that I can place the expansion sets for this years show, though I'm really disappointed in the expansion sets.

[domino]

I would gather all of the buildings in one area rather than scatter them. I noticed two building at the end of the layout sitting beyond the "Petronas Towers" by themselves. I would bring them in and instead push the oil tanks out to the edge to create a separate city, industrial area and country area.

your right,will do.

Brian

[domino]

ok, now i think i works, my first video,take a look.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/rslk_cSscjA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/rslk_cSscjA</a>

[disturbman]

Nice vid, the center of the layout really has a good japanese vibe!

I still think that you should have a slightly more unpredictable track plan. But, hey, I'm not here to argue about that. :)

You are on on a good path here. Keep it up!

[domino]

Nice vid, the center of the layout really has a good japanese vibe!

I still think that you should have a slightly more unpredictable track plan. But, hey, I'm not here to argue about that. :)

You are on on a good path here. Keep it up!

Thanks.
I agree with you that my track plan is no super great, but my problem is if i make tracks cris crossing allround there will be no space for the kato road plates an buildings ,right ??

Brian

[domino]

Here are some new building i bought from a German guy , this man is a genious , take a look.

Brian

[disturbman]

Thanks.

You're welcome.

I agree with you that my track plan is no super great, but my problem is if i make tracks cris crossing allround there will be no space for the kato road plates an buildings, right ??

Depends. I thinks it's also possible to do achieve such a goal with little changes and adjustments. With one or two righltly place turnouts, double crossover and/or crossings you could change train of tracks very easily. :)

[Bernard]

Brian - Nice video (I have to do this for my layout)

Interesting buildings. I'd like to see them on your layout to get a perpective as to the size of them compared to your other buildings.
Also does the German man sell these structures?

[domino]

Brian - Nice video (I have to do this for my layout)

Interesting buildings. I'd like to see them on your layout to get a perpective as to the size of them compared to your other buildings.
Also does the German man sell these structures?

Thanks.

Yes he does,look here:

http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/City-Town-Moderne-Architektur-in-N__W0QQ_armrsZ1
Brian

[Bernard]

Brian - the postage is 37.00 Euro plus the cost of the building.  So the 2 buildings I see listed, the range would be $85.00 to $100.00 USD per building. Is that correct?

[domino]

Brian - the postage is 37.00 Euro plus the cost of the building.  So the 2 buildings I see listed, the range would be $85.00 to $100.00 USD per building. Is that correct?

It look right, a bit high, but i promish you the buillding are a piece of art,im diffinetly going to buy more from him, my shipping cost is ofcourse lower than yours 

Brian

[Bernard]

I think I even post his site in another thread in the forum under "Skyscrapers"
Only problem is the overseas shipping, it's over $51.00 USD

[cteno4]

Domino,

looking good! a few little ideas:

try running the trains with the longer cars (like the railstar and the Cassiopeia train) on the outer tracks that have the larger radiuses as they will look better going around the curves. then on the inner loops do the shorter freight cars and the romance train (which looks ok on short radius curves).

you might cut up some colored construction paper to lay down under some of your city and town areas to give areas of pavement or cement. very quick way of defining a street/road area.

do you have any vehicles to populate your streets? the cheap architectural cars from china are an easy and cheap way to start filling the streets with some traffic. we just place cars and trucks at each show differently. tomytec cars and trucks are also great and pretty good value, but more expensive than these cheaper cars. from 3-4 feet away they look fine though so your viewers wont notice their lack of really fine detail.

http://tinyurl.com/lt8ps2

for your street festival if you want crowds you could glue some figures to the construction paper or onto small piece of clear acetate. the cheap architectural figures you can get on ebay are great for making small crowds cheap. just have to make sure to store the little mats of figures carefully! the clear acetate can show up under some lighting conditions and especially in photographs more.

http://japanrailmodelers.org/photos/_sakura/pages/page_13.html

http://tinyurl.com/l83au9

have fun!

cheers

jeff

[Bernard]

Jeff, Aaron and the rest of the DC group I've said it before, what an impressive layout!
But Jeff, I'm very surprised at you. You failed to tell Brian about the most important item he needs on the layout.
Godzilla!