Help: Danish Exhibition

[domino]

Hey guy`s.

For the first time EVER , a Japanese layout is on display in a Danish Modelrailroad Exhibition in august this year. http://www.dmju.dk/udstilling_2009.pdf  

Yes you guest it, it is going to be my layout, they called me yesterday and invited me to show all my japanese trains/layout ect.
Needless to say i was thrilled and allso nervous, my layout is not that big and is far from complete, althoug i have expanded it some more with more trains/buildings/scenery/cars/busses/trees  ect, the photo in my photoalbum is not updated with the latest item on my layout,yet.

So i need some help from you guy`s, WHAT can i do to make my layout look "full" or bigger or more japanese or something you have in mind, all ideas are more than welcome, i have 2 month to improve it.


Thanks
domino
brian

[disturbman]

First, show us recent photos (with the newest additions) of your layout. ;)

[Bernard]

Brian - That is fantastic! Congratulations from my experience it is rare that a Japanese designed layout is asked to be apart of Model RR exhibition. You have a great opportunity to be totally different from the other displays. I suggest you take a look at some of the layouts here in either Personal Projects or in the Blogs.  

But first (that is if you haven't already and I just missed it) Post the progress on what you've done on your layout so far so members can see what you're doing and offer suggestions.
This way we can get an idea of what you are modeling (City of Country scene, a Tram line or a Shinkansen line, etc.)

You must be thrilled!

[domino]

First, show us recent photos (with the newest additions) of your layout. ;)

Yes i will, im going to put all together next week , i hope on wedensday i have some photo for you to make some comments.

Brian

[domino]

Brian - That is fantastic! Congratulations from my experience it is rare that a Japanese designed layout is asked to be apart of Model RR exhibition. You have a great opportunity to be totally different from the other displays. I suggest you take a look at some of the layouts here in either Personal Projects or in the Blogs. 

But first (that is if you haven't already and I just missed it) Post the progress on what you've done on your layout so far so members can see what you're doing and offer suggestions.
This way we can get an idea of what you are modeling (City of Country scene, a Tram line or a Shinkansen line, etc.)

You must be thrilled!

yes , im thrilled and really looking forward to show something completely diffrent in a Exhibition in Denmark , will be very interresting to hear what the Danish Model railroader will say to the all Japanese layout, i almost can wait for it  

You can see my layout as it look right now here http://bmptrains.myphotoalbum.com/  , i have much more stuff now that is not in the photo, some time next week i will post new photo of ALL i have on my layout.

Brian

[Bernard]

One major thing you have to consider from the start is "How are you going to transport the layout to the Exhibition?"
This is where Doug, the members of the Washington, DC club and Sonic 883, might be able to offer you suggestions. (I have a permanent layout)
I took a look at the photo and it looks to be a busy city scene. It's a nice design that shows off your fleet, and offers continuous running which people will take an interest in.
 What are the dimensions of the layout and can you take your base and break it into sections, this is for transport. As Doug has said, 2 months is plenty of time. Also are you planning on adding ballast and ground cover to the layout? If you are, you will have to mount the Unitrack to the board which is easy. I will give you the next steps I would do if you are going to mount the track.

[alpineaustralia]

Congratulations Mate.
Doug, as the only one of us who has really exhibited a major work on a continous basis, you're assistance will be greatly valued.

[domino]

One major thing you have to consider from the start is "How are you going to transport the layout to the Exhibition?"
This is where Doug, the members of the Washington, DC club and Sonic 883, might be able to offer you suggestions. (I have a permanent layout)
I took a look at the photo and it looks to be a busy city scene. It's a nice design that shows off your fleet, and offers continuous running which people will take an interest in.
 What are the dimensions of the layout and can you take your base and break it into sections, this is for transport. As Doug has said, 2 months is plenty of time. Also are you planning on adding ballast and ground cover to the layout? If you are, you will have to mount the Unitrack to the board which is easy. I will give you the next steps I would do if you are going to mount the track.

Hey

Yes , i want a modern city look , with high rise building, but also some Japanese stile , i have some high rise and Japanese building right now , but havent have time to put up my layout to see all new building on it yet.
My house is not big enough to have it the layout up all the time, so i have 4 plates each 110x110 cm that i put together, so my total layout is 110x440 cm.Nothing is mounted on the plates so everytime is put it together i have to build everything from bottem and up, i actually like that, everytime some different.
Tuesday i start putting all together, so on Wedensday i should have some new photo of everything i have for my layout.
Im quit sure that the 4 plates and all the boxes with my building/trains ect can fit in my car when i have to tranport it to the exhibition.

Brian
Domino

[Bernard]

Alright I agree with Alpine, the members in the DC club, Sonic883 and Doug have a lot of experience in this area of traveling with a layout.  They can probably tell you the best and fastest why that you can set up at the exhibition and really show off your layout.

They will probably also give you a few tips on what they have found out from experience what interests most audience members at an exhibition.

I know this is important to you and I don't want to give you any misinformation so I'm going to defer to these guys. I look forward to reading their suggestions.

[Tenorikuma]

I presume you're going to do more scenery on your layout. Japanese cities have a lot of greenery and more flowering bushes and trees than European cities (I think), so try to work those in.

I'd say, just go all out with Japanese products to the extent your budget allows. Japanese road signs, vehicles, etc. It looks like you're doing great with those city road modules. Consider adding Japanese billboards and other advertisements. These are everywhere in Japan.

[domino]

Alright I agree with Alpine, the members in the DC club, Sonic883 and Doug have a lot of experience in this area of traveling with a layout.  They can probably tell you the best and fastest why that you can set up at the exhibition and really show off your layout.

They will probably also give you a few tips on what they have found out from experience what interests most audience members at an exhibition.

I know this is important to you and I don't want to give you any misinformation so I'm going to defer to these guys. I look forward to reading their suggestions.

thanks.

hope that they see this topic and give some advise.

domino
brian

[domino]

I presume you're going to do more scenery on your layout. Japanese cities have a lot of greenery and more flowering bushes and trees than European cities (I think), so try to work those in.

I'd say, just go all out with Japanese products to the extent your budget allows. Japanese road signs, vehicles, etc. It looks like you're doing great with those city road modules. Consider adding Japanese billboards and other advertisements. These are everywhere in Japan.

Great.
Where can i find these billboard and japanese signs ??

domino

[alpineaustralia]

Alright I agree with Alpine, the members in the DC club, Sonic883 and Doug have a lot of experience in this area of traveling with a layout.  

Yes, sorry about not mentioning the other guys. Absolutely no disrespect intended. It is just that as Doug is from my home town, I have seen his exhibition first hand a few times and it is the one that naturally springs to mind as an award winning exhibition that you could work towards.

I agree with Tenorikuma. I havent created a layout yet, mine is still in its embryonic stages. However, logically thinking about it, it seems to me that  you will need:

• People doing normal everyday sorts of things (both on the station platforms and on the streets)
  cars, taxis, buses, bicycles etc on the streets.

• Fill up empty the gaps between things (eg a road plate and a station) with trees, shrubs etc

• Kato, Greenmax and Tomix make street furnture (eg billboards, traffic lights, street signs, etc.

• Kato make playground and public car park and public toilet set that fits in well with the station street set that you already have (Kato 23-418)

• Dont be afraid to mix traditional buildings with more modern ones -that is typically Japanese.

• If you cant find billboards, you can cut out from a Japanese magazine small photos, logos, brand names and advertisements and stick then on the sides of buildings or can go onto the internet and print in rduced size actual advertisements.

Overall, you need as much clutter as possible. With land at a premium in Japan, no land is wasted and there always seems to be something (whether a building, electricty pole, street sign or advertising sign or whatever) there.  The city needs to be as busy as possible.
 

[Tenorikuma]

Alpine Australia has a good way of putting it. Clutter and efficient use of space is key to making a city look Japanese. Every building has several shops on the first floor, billboards on the roof, and a row of vending machines along the sidewalk. A collection of 20-30 potted plants is also commonplace in front of buildings, often spilling across the sidewalk (and I'm not quite sure how to model this yet). No space is too small or oddly shaped to fit some kind of structure or parking lot, and there are plenty of pay-parking lots with room for only 3 or 4 cars. You also find small temples and shrines everywhere — by train tracks, tucked between skyscrapers, up on a hill, etc.

[domino]

Alright I agree with Alpine, the members in the DC club, Sonic883 and Doug have a lot of experience in this area of traveling with a layout. 

Yes, sorry about not mentioning the other guys. Absolutely no disrespect intended. It is just that as Doug is from my home town, I have seen his exhibition first hand a few times and it is the one that naturally springs to mind as an award winning exhibition that you could work towards.

I agree with Tenorikuma. I havent created a layout yet, mine is still in its embryonic stages. However, logically thinking about it, it seems to me that  you will need:

• People doing normal everyday sorts of things (both on the station platforms and on the streets)
  cars, taxis, buses, bicycles etc on the streets.

• Fill up empty the gaps between things (eg a road plate and a station) with trees, shrubs etc

• Kato, Greenmax and Tomix make street furnture (eg billboards, traffic lights, street signs, etc.

• Kato make playground and public car park and public toilet set that fits in well with the station street set that you already have (Kato 23-418)

• Dont be afraid to mix traditional buildings with more modern ones -that is typically Japanese.

• If you cant find billboards, you can cut out from a Japanese magazine small photos, logos, brand names and advertisements and stick then on the sides of buildings or can go onto the internet and print in rduced size actual advertisements.

Overall, you need as much clutter as possible. With land at a premium in Japan, no land is wasted and there always seems to be something (whether a building, electricty pole, street sign or advertising sign or whatever) there.  The city needs to be as busy as possible.

Hey
all

Many thanks for your response, keep them coming.

Does other than Tomytec and Greenmax make Shrine`s and Pagoda`s ??(keep in mind that im not that good with paint and glue )
I have 6 High Rise buildings and Pagoda in the mail, so things are looking up.
Have Japanese signs but not ready yet, does anybody have a all Japanese magazine they want to send to Denmark, so i can get more Japanese adverts to cut out, i pay for it and shipping ofcourse??

Brian

[Bernard]

But back to the topic. (I know I was going to not going to post but I just thought of this and it could be helpful.)

I see you want this to be a layout that you can change around and you don't want the track fixed to the base. One suggestion then is after you set up the layout the way you want it on the board w/buildings, streets, track, etc. I would mark out the layout on the base with either tape or a marking pen, this way when you need to set it up at the exhibition, you will know exactly where everything will go and there will be no guess work.
If you have people on the layout you most likely will have to glue them down.

[domino]

But back to the topic. (I know I was going to not going to post but I just thought of this and it could be helpful.)

I see you want this to be a layout that you can change around and you don't want the track fixed to the base. One suggestion then is after you set up the layout the way you want it on the board w/buildings, streets, track, etc. I would mark out the layout on the base with either tape or a marking pen, this way when you need to set it up at the exhibition, you will know exactly where everything will go and there will be no guess work.
If you have people on the layout you most likely will have to glue them down.

Hey

Marking on the plate , thats is a great idea, i will do that.
About the people, i was thinking maybe i can glue i small piece of transparent hard plastic to the feet to make it stand by it self , like on attached photo ??
What do you think about that ??


Brian

[domino]

see

[Welshbloke]

Another possible way of doing it - drill small holes in the baseplates, and similar ones up through figures. Then glue a bit of brass wire into the figure. This will plug into the baseplate and hold them upright without needing a visible plastic base for each figure

[Bernard]

Another possible way of doing it - drill small holes in the baseplates, and similar ones up through figures. Then glue a bit of brass wire into the figure. This will plug into the baseplate and hold them upright without needing a visible plastic base for each figure

This is an interesting idea, I know an animator that does a process with figures where there are rods on each the figures feet and drills holes in the base that the figures path will be. (but that's another story)

This would also work for cars that have functional wheels and you don't want them to roll off the layout.
But you will need a very fine drill to do this, and a pin/rod to match the size of the hole you will drill. 

The marking process is what I used to lay down my track plan onto my bench work.
Brian, since you like to have the flexibility to change you layout from time to time, don't use something that would permanently mark your base plate. How about removable tape to mark out where your track, structures, streets, etc. will go. Then I would number the bottom of my buildings to a corresponding number on the base so as to not mix up your buildings. Some buildings might have the same base dimensions as others, this might prevent you from mixing them up at final re-assembly. Just a thought.

[Shashinka]

Sorry, been out most of the weekend, and when I'm on, I'm doing a bit of Wiki work.I haven't read up on this thread so I don't know who has said what and when.

I'll grab Jeff who pretty much does most all of the leg work for the JRM. He's probably the man for the job to help ya out on this subject, domino. We (the JRM) do between 4 and 6 shows a year. (including outdoors and non-train shows)

[cteno4]

Domino,

Hey sounds like you are in for some fun! you are starting the same way Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC (JRM) did. we wanted to display japanese trains at trains shows and other venues. to do this we decided to do the more japanese rr approach than doing a more us ntrak or sectional layout. we wanted to show how easy it was to just throw together unitrak, buildings and such and make a functional layout, they build it on the fly approach. this is similar to what a lot of folks in japan do, not having a lot of space to set up a large permanent layout, many folks do what you do at home, setting up a layout on table tops or on the floor (one of the propertied reasons unitrak is so hardy so it can be used on tatami mats) for a temporary layout. when doing this you cant do really detailed scenery, but end up doing a more perceived scenery.

The downside of this approach is that you end up having literally thousands of parts to transport and keep track of as well as a big setup and tear down time. it can be really labor intensive, but you have the flexibility to change your layout when you want to! also a great demonstration to the public what they can do just snapping track together and showing them they dont have to get into doing a large permanent layout to do something very fun.

ill just outline some of what we did with the jrm layout to give you some ideas and reasoning we went through.

Laout Base
for jrm's layout we created a base structure of 2' x 4' modules. They are 1" thick foam that are framed in 1" x 2" wood. these are very light weight and sturdy. these connect together with plywood strip plates and the whole thing sits on top of plastic, foldup saw horses. the final 9 modules set up is 14' long x 4' wide (~4.2m x 1.3m) and has a 2' x 8' yard that comes off one end.

Setup
Make sure to do a dry run of your set up to figure out how much time it will take you. extra hands that are familiar with what you are doing helps a lot! also bring lots of extra track and wiring parts as well as a good toolkit, something always breaks or turns up missing and you usually have to do a little dance at a setup, but its easy if you are prepared. depending on how hard your plan is and how many folks are helping you to put your track together you may want to have good printouts of your track plans. with jrm we found it hard to keep trying to do the track plan from printouts and eventually went to printing out the track plan life sized and glueing it down onto the module surfaces. this made it a lot easier to put the track together with a mix of folks snapping track together. to make it easier (our ground loops are pretty complex and use a lot of different types of track) to find the track needed wen setting up we put the track from each 2'x4' module area into its own box. we found this a lot easier than sorting all the track back into individual bags all of the same kind. we just store the track in big flat game boxes (like 1' w x 2' l x 1" h) in chunks of 3-4 pieces of track clipped together (as big as will fit in the box). this makes it pretty quick to clip the 5-15 sections of track w/in a module pretty quickly. this was probably the biggest thing in speeding up the assembly of the layout and makes it easier for folks to help that have not done setup before.

Wiring
This is a challenge for a temporary layout. how you get your power feeds and point wiring back to your control space is tough. if you run them on top of your layout then they are visible and also can cause track problems where they go under tracks. you can run it under the modules, but if you use the kato wiring connectors you have to poke pretty big holes through your subsurface. we ended up snipping off the big kato connectors and making micro connectors by using the pins (male and female) that go into old serial cable connectors. these are tiny, like 1.5cm long and 2mm in diameter. after crimping and soldering the wire to the pin we then just put heat shrink over the outside to protect it from shorting (male pins we just leave the male part sticking out of the heat shrink, the female we we cover totally in heat shrink). these little plugs can then slip through a hole not much larger than the wires themselves!

Layout Design
Matthew Davis did our layout design for the jrm layouts. it went through maybe 3 revisions over the first year or so before we decided to lock the design down. when we did this we then did the printout of the layout on the module surface to make the setup easier. main points are to make something that has a bit of complexity to it so that folks are surprised and kept guessing some if possible where the trains are running. having sidings scattered around also is great to show off a lot of trains and make it easy to change out trains a lot. here is a bit of what we did with jrm and why we did things

plans and photos here: http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/layout.html

we have two ground loops. both of these are pretty complex. the outer loop covers most of the 4' x 14' layout area. its a folded figure 8 which is helps as folks dont quite know where the train is going all the time and it takes quite a while for a train to do the full circuit of the outer loop. we run the longer trains and freight mostly on this loop. it has some nice straightaways that things like the m250 container trains look great on. the inner loop is w/in the center of the folded figure 8 of the outer loop. the inner loop is both an oval loop and a figure 8, it can be switched to either. on the inner loop we run shorter interurban and local trains usually due to the tighter radius track there.

both the inner and outer loops have a lot of sidings scattered around them. this makes it great to display a lot of trains and bring out lots of different trains to run. the Public usually likes seeing more different kinds of trains rather than longer ones. this is the real benefit of japanese trains with all their variety. its the main thing that really captures the public's eye. kids love to ask to have a particular train run and they love it when you ask them to choose and bring that one out for them.

the viaduct loop is a double viaduct loop that we run primarily shinkansens on. its a dogbone shape which helps not make it look too much like a slot car going round and round, but it does introduce some S curves that some trains do not like. if you do do an S curve then if you can put a 184 section in the middle of it, it can really help. also putting a 184 between points and curves also helps as a few shinkansens can pick a point (derail on the point) coming out of a curve. the viaduct is at a 5 degree skew to the ground level tracks which helps again break up the scene and not make things look like a bunch of concentric loops. we have two stations, one 9' long with passing tracks that can hold 4 16 car shinkansens, and the other shorter one that has a double crossover on it that can be used to move trains from the inner to the outer viaduct loops. we have a large 9 track yard on the 8' extension that comes off the outer viaduct line on one end of the layout.

Scenery
with perceived you just try to set the scenes with simple and clean scenery items instead of trying to do hyper detail. trying to transport detailed scenery items for a layout that completely comes apart is a bit of a conflict. unless you build nice containers for everything that protects them in transport things can get clobbered quickly. also small scenery items can easily be lost.

for the basic ground cover we went to just using colored construction paper. when we first started we just put down sheets of light brown, gray, and green construction paper to denote areas of cement (cities) or rural area. when we put the track plan down on the module surface we then cut out colored construction paper pieces that fit between all the track sections and glued them down. this results in just the track plan being visible and when the track is down you only see the colored construction paper. later when we wanted more details like roads and such we cut out sections of 1/16" counter top formica (its cheap, thin, flat) that fit between the tracks. members then put scenery down on top of these (ie painted roads, grass or other ground cover). these just then plop down between the tracks.

we cut the layout up into some different 'districts' for different scenes with buildings. we have a city at one end with lots of high rises, a smaller town in the center with more modern low rises, an old town behind that with older buildings (tomytec old town sets), an industrial area, train/bus station, and container yard. we just plunk these buildings down and the layout will vary with each show. we put vehicles out randomly at each show.

we have one set of hillsides with our shrine on it. these are built of lightweight plaster and are fully sceniced. these have a custom container for transport to keep them from getting destroyed.

we have not done figures much on the layout as they are hard to protect when things are stored. for the last show i did do a bunch of figures on the temple, which was fine as those are well protected when transported. also around the old town i did a bunch of festival scenes by gluing figures to small strips of clear acetate. this worked well as you could just plunk down the strips and create nice detailed street scenes. downsides is with the right light you end up seeing the acetate with reflections and such and flash photos can really make them pop out. its a trade off as if we did the street scenes with figures and details on the base plates we would then need boxes to protect those for transport and also be careful in setup and tear down not to hit them.


Future
Recently we have decided to stop doing the build on the fly. it was getting to be way too much energy to do all the time and a real pain to keep track of all the parts and transport them. it was fun when we started, but got old after a few years. We are now starting on a sectional layout with 1m x 0.5m modules. the track plan will be unique but just break up into modules. track will be attached and and then complete detailing can be done. buildings will probably not be premaritally attached as folks will be just volunteering their own for the shows. over time we hope to purchase the buildings needed a section at a time.


yell if you have questions, happy to share and help!

best advice i have is start simple and keep your scenery at a simple, perceived level for the first go around. you will have enough to deal with setting up in a new situation to deal with. the public will love to see the trains and they dont need hyper detailing to get into it. when we started with the very simple scenery setups they loved it and folks even commented they liked the idea of just getting the picture started and they use their imaginations some to fill in the scene!

cheers

jeff

[domino]

Hey Jeff

Thanks a Million,you have no idea how much i appriciate your input to my First ever Exhibition.
I will use all your ideas/hints/experience to make my first exhibition a succes, i hope  

Late this week i will post new photo of how my layout look right now, then you all can see if you think it is suitable for a exhibition , as you can see im pretty nervous about the hole thing.

Again , thanks a Million for everything.

Domino
Brian

[cteno4]

Domino,

You are most welcome. sorry i sort of just spewed our experiences rather than try to suggest exactly what you might do. figured you might learn from our experiences and apply something to what you want to do and how you want to do it!

you look like you had some good ideas going in your photos for the track plan.

do you know about xtrak cad? its a free track planning software thats nice to fiddle with track planning ideas

http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage

best of luck with this and have fun with it! keep us posted.

cheers

jeff

[domino]

ok Guy`s

I was thinking, maybe it is best to show as many Japanese trains as possible, keep in mind this is first time ever a Japanese layout is on display in Denmark, on the layout in the attached photo i can run 8 trains at the same time plus 5 trains on side track for show of, ofcourse this leave not much room for building and road system,there will be some building but not all , what do you think, let me hear your thoughts

Regards
brian
domino

[Darren Jeffries]

Brian,

With a bit of creative placement of buildings and roadways, that could look pretty good. I presume spectators will be able to view the layout from all 4 sides?

[CaptOblivious]

Just a thought: Perhaps you should have the yard in the back, hidden from view---a fiddle yard, as it were. The idea is, you run a set of trains for a little while, and then you start switching them out one by one for new ones in the yard. Keeps viewers interested, because new trains keep popping out. Also, keeps all the action in the front, in view. You would have to connect all the inner loops together, at least, and you will lose some yard storage, but that's OK. The yard is just a place for you to store trains you want to run more often, and open space for you to place and remove trains to and from the layout.

[domino]

Thanks

I will try to make room for road system and buildings.
Im not sure if the spectators will be able to see all 4 sides, i havent got the plan from the exhibition yet.

Brian

Brian,

With a bit of creative placement of buildings and roadways, that could look pretty good. I presume spectators will be able to view the layout from all 4 sides?

[domino]

Just a thought: Perhaps you should have the yard in the back, hidden from view---a fiddle yard, as it were. The idea is, you run a set of trains for a little while, and then you start switching them out one by one for new ones in the yard. Keeps viewers interested, because new trains keep popping out. Also, keeps all the action in the front, in view. You would have to connect all the inner loops together, at least, and you will lose some yard storage, but that's OK. The yard is just a place for you to store trains you want to run more often, and open space for you to place and remove trains to and from the layout.

Thanks.
So you want the yard in the back ?
The layout is not that big , so people will still be able to see the trains in the bag yard, i just thought that i would be nice to have lots of never before seen trains in the front for people to see?

Brian

[CaptOblivious]

Oh, I'm in total agreement that you want to be able to show off as many of the unique trains of Japan to this crowd as possible. But you don't want them to see everything all at once, that spoils the fun. If a new train they haven't seen before is popping out every couple of minutes, this keeps the crowd glued to your layout, instead of just giving it a once-over and moving on (at least, I think! Cteno4 I'm sure would have a lot more to say on this subject, as he does this kind of thing for a living!)

It wouldn't be too hard to make a small mountain in the back covering the yard, or surrounding the yard with buildings. I've done something similar on my Shogatsu layout, which is even smaller: http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/tag/shogatsu/
I've only got a couple of trains hidden back there, but it's enough to keep my (at the time) 6mo old daughter fascinated for as much as ten minutes! That's eons for a baby :D

But, too, this is just what I think, and you can take or leave it: You're going to have the most fun doing what you think is best.

Just a thought: Perhaps you should have the yard in the back, hidden from view---a fiddle yard, as it were. The idea is, you run a set of trains for a little while, and then you start switching them out one by one for new ones in the yard. Keeps viewers interested, because new trains keep popping out. Also, keeps all the action in the front, in view. You would have to connect all the inner loops together, at least, and you will lose some yard storage, but that's OK. The yard is just a place for you to store trains you want to run more often, and open space for you to place and remove trains to and from the layout.

Thanks.
So you want the yard in the back ?
The layout is not that big , so people will still be able to see the trains in the bag yard, i just thought that i would be nice to have lots of never before seen trains in the front for people to see?

Brian

[cteno4]

Don, i would agree on a small layout like your sweet mountainside baby (nice layout!), but on the larger jrm layout our experience has been that the shinkansen yard is almost as much of a display as the layout is. Domino is planning a pretty good sized layout, so ill have to disagree with you on this one and say show off the trains!

i think there as many photos taken of the yard as of the layout at times! i agree that having surprises is great, most of the audiences outside of japan are pretty new to seeing the trains and love spending a lot of time staring and talking about all the different kinds of trains in the yard. its a great talking point as we usually have everything from a 60s era 0 series all the way to the new 700t. seeing the evolution of the trains is really wonderful. also a lot of train fans have a real soft spot for a yard (me included!).

another big attraction for kids (and some of the big kids) is to choose a train to be taken out of the yard to run for a while. this really helps interact with the audience and give them some participation.

we get a lot of surprise with the great convoluted track plan Matthew did for the ground level tracks. its hard to tell where those trains are going next a lot of the time so folks will follow those trains for quite a while tracking the track plan. even the buildings help hide the trains from view some and give some surprises.

I think the fact that the set up on the fly layout with more perceptual scenery, trains running right past big buildings and cities, a huge variety of trains on display, and 4 trains running is already way more surprise than most layouts at shows! we always get a lot of wow factor, folks are a bit stunned with the jrm layout, not because its some work of art, but its really different in its display and content so folks are captivated. we even get a fair number of the crusty old american steam era train guys hanging around quite a while, even though we are 180° from all they like and do!

we get great hang time by visitors just taking in all the different trains and the different display approach. i think we have about the best kid hang time of all the layouts at shows -- i measure this by how many fits are thrown by kids when the parents try to move them on. so i dont think you may need to be too concerned with keeping surprises for the audience, they are going to have plenty to look at!

As Don said this is just my opinion as well, best to do what feels good for you and what makes you happy and have fun with this! Important thing is to have fun with the display as its going to be a big hunk of work so make it worthwhile by making it a really fun experience for you! the more excited about the layout you are the more the public will pick up on it.

one last bit of advice is to get out and talk with folks as much as you can. interacting with the audience can be really fun and they will have loads of questions! Also it will let you pick up more on their excitement, surprise, interest and really help make the effort you do more worthwhile! a couple of heartfelt thank yous from folks have made sitting in traffic for 4 hrs on friday then getting up at 5am on sat morning for the show worthwhile!

cheers,

jeff

[disturbman]

I'm agreeing with Don and Jeff on this one. It would be nice if the loops are connected in a way or another so the trains just don't pursue their own tail. Then people will wonder where the train is going to pop out.

Maybe you can put somewhere some kind of a screen (a scene divider) depicting a city landscape on a side and some farmland/nature on the other. You could then be able to put your building in front of the city screen and give all this a bit of perspective. :)

[cteno4]

Yes having as many things block views some and having your track plan as little as an oval helps a lot! downside is that curve radius on model trains are tighter than prototype and make the trains sometimes look bad, but its worth trading some of that off to make the track plan more un-predictable and not have the snake chasing its tail!

cheers

jeff

[cteno4]

Forgot to mention a couple of things with protection from the public...

first is a small edge guard. on jrm we have a small slit cut in our edge framing that we slip a small 2" high piece of 1.5mm plexiglass in. this is mainly to prevent trains from flying off the edge of the table if it derails on a stretch of track along the edge and also to help prevent fingers poking in on trains right at the edge. while fingers can come over the top to touch, it stops the direct path and thus most of the problems that way! if your setup does not let you do a slot to put the guard in you could also easily make an inverted T of plex to just set along the edge (maybe a bit of double stick tape to gently hold it in place).

the other thing is some sort of velvet rope to keep the audience back a couple of feet from the layout. as much as i love to try and trust the public with my exhibit stuff (i have found if you trust the public and dont try to armor everything they tend to respond well and not vandalize, but when you show them you dont trust them by armoring they tend to vandalize), the trains are just too tempting to let them right up to the layout. also folks forget and point and poke trains by accident or a big one is when they take pictures over the layout and their camera straps, dangling lens covers, sleeves, etc hook a train! this has happened with even our members taking pictures of the layout!

or first barricade was just 1/2" pvc pipe sections about 30" high that sat in some 1' square plywood bases. the top of the pipe had a hole drilled through it and we just strung a yellow piece of rope through them. these were spread about 5-6' apart around the layout. problem with the rope is that its not that pretty, hard to set up, and folks can easily push in on it if they want to. recently i made some nice stanchions out of bamboo sections (like 1.5" round bamboo from one of our members yard). i epoxied pvc fittings in to the bottom of the stanchions and cut out some nice round 1" thick by 12" in diameter bases, routed the edges, painted black and put yellow tape around the edge for visibility. at the top of each stanchion and in the middle i drilled a small hole and put loose loops of nice twine through them. then just used nice 7' long sections of 1/2" bamboo (bought at a garden supply place for a couple of bucks each) for cross pieces between the stanchions. the cross pieces just rest in the twine loops on the stanchions. this looks much nicer and makes a more solid barrier. this lets us bring the barrier in closer to the layout then. it held up to the massive crowds we had at the national Cherry Blossom Festival where the attendance was huge!

http://japanrailmodelers.org/photos/_sakura/pages/page_7.html
http://japanrailmodelers.org/photos/_sakura/pages/page_30.html

we also at smaller shows will usually have a few of the folding chairs out on the outside of the barrier turned around. this lets parents put smaller kids standing on the chair (as long as the parent is holding them and its on their head to take care of the kid) so the kids can get up to see the layout. we do our layout at a lower level than most show layouts specifically because we want kids to get a good view. also our layout is better seen from a higher angle as its deeper and lots going on and would be hard to see if up at the higher levels.

that being said we only have had one kid ever really nail a train. at the cherry blossom festival one 5yr old got frustrated that we were not taking out the train he wanted (it had just been put away and had been run for like 3hrs) and he swung his arm and shoved the train hard and it (my doremon) went flying down the layout. luckily the edge guard kept the any cars from going over and no real damage to anything!

anyhow it is important to think about what you want to do about all the fingers (big and small) that will want to come into your trains! if you dont put something up then you really need a couple of pairs of eyes always on guard. will be interesting to hear your crowd/public experience!

cheers,

jeff

[Bernard]

One concern is setting up at the exhibition and wiring it. You have 10 turnouts and 8 main lines, are you going to have someone to help you, because to me it seems like a lot of wiring. Also the top 2 turnouts in your yard appear to be short, I not sure how much you will be able to store in that section of the yard. How about using those 4 turnsout to form a siding or let trains cross into the other main lines.

I agree with Jeff (hey I agreed with you Jeff ) about having too many ovals, it nice to have a train come out of nowhere (being hidden) from the viewer, in your case, this can be accomplish with buildings placed at certain points on the layout hiding the track. On my layout, trains are popping out of tunnels, behind forest, or mountains and views are caught by surprise.
How about a variation on the oval, perhaps a "dog bone"... or a variation on a figure 8, that will give the impression that a train has changed direction.

[domino]

This is my first try, i will take a look at all your comments and then make some changes.

What do you think ??

[Bernard]

You will definately get people stopping by and looking.
Jeff made a good and important point in an earlier post, time yourself to see how long it is going to take you to put this layout together. This is your first show and "practice makes perfect" as the saying goes. You do have a lot of elements to set up.
Also are you going to have anybody helping you at the show?

[domino]

You will definately get people stopping by and looking.
Jeff made a good and important point in an earlier post, time yourself to see how long it is going to take you to put this layout together. This is your first show and "practice makes perfect" as the saying goes. You do have a lot of elements to set up.
Also are you going to have anybody helping you at the show?

It think i will take 6 or 7 hours to complete , and no one is helping me, im going alone to this exhibition.
Everything is packet down, if must put all track together at the exhibition the day before.

[cteno4]

Domino,

the viaduct looks great with the half dog bone breaking up the oval. only suggestion on the ground level tracks might be to think about going to just 2 or 3 tracks and see if you can make the outer one do something interesting like a folded figure 8 or something to make it more unpredictable and also make the run of that line a lot longer. 4 or 5 trains running at once is plenty to grab folks attention! the more trains you have running also the more you have to keep watch on the trains! its important not to get too distracted with the public and have a messy crash! worse is when one picks a point and ends up shorting out and can melt a truck!

its good you have the day before to set up. give yourself time as the worse feeling is trying to rush to finish at the last second.

cheers

jeff

[disturbman]

I'm also thinking, if you just have three or two going tracks you could then have the yard connecting on the mainlines.

[domino]

Hey again

I also have a small part with old fashion Japanese style, but there is something wrong ,it looks wrong but i cant put my finger on it??

[Tenorikuma]

Old Japanese neighbourhoods have quite narrow streets (too tight for two vehicles to easily pass), and the buildings are so close there is often no space between them whatsoever.

[domino]

Well, probberly close my stand or get some one from another stand to look after my things ?

Brian

[alpineaustralia]

I also have a small part with old fashion Japanese style, but there is something wrong ,it looks wrong but i cant put my finger on it??

To me it looks too spaced apart. Pack the building in, and close in the street, really tight.

See these images:

[Bernard]

Brian - I've thinking about your layout and trying to come up with an alternate layout plan. My thinking is this, (and this is coming from my TB Forum experience) whereas the public will be interested in seeing these unique Japanese trains running, the other exhibitors might be looking at the layout as a "Roundy-Round". You don't need 8 main lines doing exactly the same thing, as Jeff has said, 4 or 5 trains running is enough, less is sometimes better. (Also if a derailment happens, it could effect mulitiple train lines.)
An interesting loop that gives the appearance that a train has changed direction, might give the impression that the train has traveled a longer distance and the people will start to follow the path of that particular train.

You still have plenty of time, lets look into a diverse but simple plan that include a yard that will also show off your fleet. 

[disturbman]

Maybe someone should design or show some propositions of what we all seem to have in mind. :)

[Bernard]

Brian - In my conversion, since I deal in feet and inches, am I right in saying that your space of 110cm x 440cm is 3 feet x 15 feet?

[domino]

Brian - In my conversion, since I deal in feet and inches, am I right in saying that your space of 110cm x 440cm is 3 feet x 15 feet?

1 meter is 3,28 feet, so 1,1(110cm) is 3,608 feet
                            and4,4(440cm) is 14,432 feet

your are almost right 

[domino]

If i was to change the inner loop to 8 track, i will lose space to building an roads and what about the big station entrance ??
As it is now many trains will be hidden once the are behinde the tall buildings.

Brian - I've thinking about your layout and trying to come up with an alternate layout plan. My thinking is this, (and this is coming from my TB Forum experience) whereas the public will be interested in seeing these unique Japanese trains running, the other exhibitors might be looking at the layout as a "Roundy-Round". You don't need 8 main lines doing exactly the same thing, as Jeff has said, 4 or 5 trains running is enough, less is sometimes better. (Also if a derailment happens, it could effect mulitiple train lines.)
An interesting loop that gives the appearance that a train has changed direction, might give the impression that the train has traveled a longer distance and the people will start to follow the path of that particular train.

You still have plenty of time, lets look into a diverse but simple plan that include a yard that will also show off your fleet. 

[domino]

I understand what your are saying, but i cant do anything about it, also the exhibition is over 2 days, so when the show is closed during night i will have to sleep on the floor to make sure nothing happens to it .

Well, probberly close my stand or get some one from another stand to look after my things ?

Brian

I don't know what the situation is in your part of the world, but I suspect that you cannot just close your stand in the middle of an exhibition !!!!

Otherwise, who are you going to trust with your trains, and when are you going to teach them how to operate the layout while you are gone