My 2 loves almost collide!

[serotta1972]

My 2 loves - cycling and trains.

 

The Paris-Roubaix and the TGV - a close one.

 

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/nbcsports3/?title=85+km+to+go:+Unexpected+train+disrupts+peloton+during+Paris-Roubaix&dashboard=paris-roubaix&id=QFP7Dc84sBlH&yr=2015

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Absolutely brainless!! I am astonished the organisation was so appalling at this point, and that - admittedly lone - policeman did nothing at first to stop the cyclists from breaking the law. I sincerely hope - but very much doubt - those participants who are identified as skipping these lights/barriers have a significant time-penalty applied; maybe even disqualified.  

[1954G]

I have a lot of respect for pro cyclists, whose sport requires massive amounts of physical talent, training, and courage. 

 

That being said, that was a really dumb move by the peloton on many levels.  Breaking the rules, almost causing an accident--very poor decision-making.  

 

Even under the pressures of competition, these guys should have realized that trying to beat a TGV (or any other train) was not smart. 

Edited April 12, 2015 by 1954G

[cteno4]

The problem when something becomes so all consuming that tunnel vision sets in. I'm surprised there is not a more organized plan at a crossing like this as it seems like barring that this behavior will be the result.

 

Jeff

[miyakoji]

It got someone's attention

 

 

http://m.bbc.com/sport/cycling/32284180

[miyakoji]

It looks like this actually happened to an amateur cyclist about a year ago

 

Edited April 13, 2015 by miyakoji

[Densha]

I remember hearing about an amateur cyclist getting hit on a level crossing just a few kilometers from my house a few years ago. It was about the same story as with the TGV; the driver didn't notice the cyclist so the train continued to the next station while some of the body parts were stuck to the automatic coupler on the front. It was all discovered by the passengers waiting at that station. That time the other part of the body and the bicycle was found near the level crossing where the collision happened.

 

And an entirely different situation, but many people in my hometown appear to have a big tendency to cross the street just in front of a running tram. No difference for pedestrians, cyclists or car drivers, everyone crosses streets in front of trams. I have seen so many dangerous situations and on a single tram ride usually at least one dangerous situation occurs. I remember one time very well: a ~14 year old boy ran across an intersection while not looking at the traffic lights or any traffic approaching. The tram driver applied the emergency brake so we could stop in time. The shocked driver shouted something like "Do you want to die?! Do you want to die?!" to the boy. At least the boy looked like he was frightened; hopefully he learned to pay attention to street traffic.

 

Better just wait if you want to stay alive. Those few seconds/minutes you 'save' are not worth it.

[cteno4]

Good perhaps it would wake the community up some. at times something like that is needed to make some change.

 

seems like they should have more of an advanced warning system in place for train tracks like this with a person with an warning light stationed 50-100m back from the crossing to start the red warning (as soon as the warning bell goes off) that you must stop at the crossing regardless of the barrier position. place a video camera there to grab the numbers and anyone not stopping if they warned is out for the season. needs to be a bigger threat than just the one race, thats been proved in other sports.

 

the stopping in time is not true as there would be plenty of time if riders stopped pumping and start slowing as soon as they hear the warning bell but like motorists they all think they can beat the barrier and if they are pumping for the barrier of course then they can't stop in time. of course a few will be a position they can't stop when the bells and lights first go off, but thats can be handled by a warning further back to stop.

 

i get this all the time at the one crossing i do here in a car every couple of weeks. as soon as the lights and bells go off i immediately remove my foot from the accelerator and slow anticipating the gates and not trying to beat them (which is actually the law here). but about every other time someone will blare their horn that I've slowed rather than speeding up to try and beat the gate and a few times folks have roared around me to barely beat the gate (one actually did not and went around the gate once!), just stupid... the usual down time at this one is about 2 minutes as its a fast commuter train and once in a great while its 5 minutes for a slower freight, i mean 5 minutes, is that gunna kill you as the other way just might!

 

anyhow just incredibly stupid on both the cyclists and organizers part as the organizers should know the cyclists will of course try to beat the barrier and are so funnel visioned at that point you need to whack them hard to get their attention earlier!

 

jeff

[velotrain]

They should do it Japanese style so the gates fully block the road.

 

Or, maybe use those barriers rising from the road that were shown on another thread ;-)

[Densha]

These kind of barriers are used so that traffic can escape from the level crossing instead of having the possibility of vehicles getting trapped in between two barriers. Practically all barriers in the Netherlands (and most in Europe I think) are like these, only for a few exceptions on certain very busy or long level crossings.

[kvp]

The half arms are meant to allow any trapped cars to escape. The japanese double half arms lowered in two steps are meant to lock the crossing completly. My prefered crossing type is the classic british one with horizontal swing gates and interlocking with the line signalling. No closed and locked gates, no green light for the train. The swing gates also stop most vehicles from getting stuck inside and once fully closed the human operator or a detector can check if the line is truely clear or not before allowing the train to approach the crossing. This method keeps the gates closed for the longest time, but it's also the safest.

[railsquid]

The half arms are meant to allow any trapped cars to escape. The japanese double half arms lowered in two steps are meant to lock the crossing completly. My prefered crossing type is the classic british one with horizontal swing gates and interlocking with the line signalling. No closed and locked gates, no green light for the train. The swing gates also stop most vehicles from getting stuck inside and once fully closed the human operator or a detector can check if the line is truely clear or not before allowing the train to approach the crossing. This method keeps the gates closed for the longest time, but it's also the safest.

 

Also the most expensive, which is why there are so few around any more. (The above must be from a preserved line judging by the motive power, the painting on the signal box and the lack of hi-vis jackets on the crew standing on the track)

[Kabutoni]

Single arm barriers are good for quick escapes for idiot drivers. Japanese-style double-arm barriers are good for keeping stupid pedestrians out (I've seen pedestrians crossing closing gates here way too often).

 

In the end, it's the responsibility of the person who is crossing the lights/gates. When you enter a closed railway crossing, you firstly break the law, you secondly endanger yourself and others (either bystanders or those with you) with lethal consequences, and thirdly will cause delays. Personally, I don't think safety measurements will solve these problems. IMHO knowledge and obedience of traffic law (you chose to participate in the game, so stick to the rules), a bit of patience (oh dear, a few minutes delay) and the threat of heavy fines that will prevent accidents from happening. I really like the system some companies in Japan have to charge the person who causes delays with all the costs xD

[cteno4]

I do think in an organized event where you are escalating something that is a problem and human reaction under normal conditions, that something more can be done and thought thru to prevent the level of disaster this could have been here. I know cycling does what it can for preventing just the biking accidents and the resulting pileups as they do injure and ruin careers.

 

one other person this heavily effects is the train driver as well, always tragic when they have to go thru fatal crashes from this sort of thing that was not their fault at all.

 

it is something tragic when it happens and thus why important to be more proactive about it, its still shocking how folks will drive thru crossings with wild abandon! 

 

jeff

[katoftw]

Completely the race organisers fault.  At no point should a race be going through level crossings.

[Kabutoni]

Completely the race organisers fault.  At no point should a race be going through level crossings.

 

Happens quite regularly with the Tour and other bicycle races. It's not the fault of the organisers, as it happens all the time and the competitors know this very well. It's the ones who break the rules who are at fault.

[Densha]

Tour de Flanders (in Belgium) just a few days ago on 11 April:

 

[velotrain]

It's not the fault of the organisers, as it happens all the time and the competitors know this very well. It's the ones who break the rules who are at fault.

 

I'd say there are three parties at fault - the organizers, local authorities, and the riders.  The organizers knew the peloton was 10 minutes early, and should have communicated that to the local authorities and perhaps had someone hold up a big sign for the cyclists saying they were on a collision course with a TGV.  The organizers were aware of this situation, but clearly ignored it. 

(I once had my touring bike on one, so I guess that makes it a VGV)  

At any rate, the local authorities should have been better prepared for this other than one officer on a motorcycle - who was likely assigned to the group in the first place.  In other words, the schedule conflict was known, but no one did anything about it.

 

Since these courses regularly go through grade crossings, the organizers are at fault for not more forcefully briefing the riders and telling them anyone going through a fully down gate will be eliminated from the next X races.  It was stated that the French give little warning before the gates lower, and the train quickly follows.  This being the case, the organizers should make sure that there are warning signs - their own, not just the usual railway sign, a Km before the crossing.  The organizers and local authorities need to work together to come up with more effective protocol, even if that means race support crew standing in the way with a 2 X 10 once the gates are down, and making sure that the racers are well aware of this policy.

 

"Race organisers said on Sunday they would not punish the riders"

 

Yes, the riders are at fault for going through, but they wouldn't consider it if the organizers weren't such wimps, and made their policy (if they in fact have one) clear to the riders.

 

 

"Race organisers have said the riders could not stop in time."

 

Bull.  While true for the first group of riders, the video shows plenty of riders snaking through at slow speed (and one after he had stopped), so they clearly could have stopped.

The organizers are aware that this is a potentially dangerous situation, but have failed to accept any accountability for their part in it.

 

 

Serotta 1972 - what's a Serotta doing on the left coast - you must be a transplant.

[serotta1972]

 

 

Serotta 1972 - what's a Serotta doing on the left coast - you must be a transplant.

 

Hey velotrain, 

 

Cool name, 2 of my favorite things.  I ride a Serotta. 

[NuclearErick]

how about a marathon

 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Also the most expensive, which is why there are so few around any more. (The above must be from a preserved line judging by the motive power, the painting on the signal box and the lack of hi-vis jackets on the crew standing on the track)

 

OT, but yes, that is the East Lancashire Railway at Ramsbottom; I was there at Easter. Mrs Dreyfus is from this neck of the woods, and I was visiting the in-laws.

 

There are very few of these gates left in the UK, some of which are controlled from a signal box, others are more manual. Sadly, the latter approach can lead to unfortunate consequences...

 

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/person-hit-by-car-at-35763/