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Kabutoni

3D Modeling; The Future

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Atomsk

I mainly work with my 15 inch 1920x1080p notebook screen. I also have a 23 inch 1080p screen, but I barely use it except for watching movies (obviously because it's larger) and for photo editing (because it shows colours better). But apart from that I barely use my larger screen because it's more convenient to work with my notebook screen. It's mainly a resolution thing for me and for daily work I prefer the sharpness of 1080p on a 15 inch screen over the same resolution on a larger screen.

I bought my current laptop because my old one, that I had kept alive for over 10 years, didn't have the horsepower to run Blender.  This new one is a total POS, but it's a POS with MORE POWER!!!!!!!

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cteno4

Need bigger screens with higher resolutions! It is a pain that so many just scale 1080 up to larger screens,mthat may work for watching a movie but not for close work!

 

I recently replaced the old Big Mac pro box for a 15 MacBook Pro with the retina display and wow it's stunning. The system is more powerful than the 5 year old Mac pro box! Runs the 30" Cinema Display at full Rez and great as well. I've always been super happy plunking down big bucks on nice screens as over the last 40 years I've probably stared at the screen for a cumulative 8-10 years of continuous use! Extra money spent works out to a less than a dollar a day and I can still use the computer and iPad fine w.o glasses -- to me it's super well spent money... I know so many heavy computer users that have burned their close eyes and are still young!

 

Big screen I find I'd great as I spend so much less time opening up pallets, finding windows etc. I'm horrid at remembering key stokes to bring up things only have a fixed limit I can remember for some reason (maybe the dyslexia) but I can visually remeber exactly where things are in a big spread of pallettes.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

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Kabutoni

A bigger screen would be nice, more power would also be nice, but I'm running my stuff on a MacBook Pro with a 2.9 GHz Intel Core and 8GB ram, so it's pretty decent for rendering simple objects like these. I've found out that the program I'm using just shits the bed when I'm working off sketches/2D lines instead of 3D polygons... No matter! I've changed my strategy of working off 2D lines to direct 3D sculpting instead!

 

Today, I redid the project once again (toned down on details that can't be done beyond 0.2mm) and finally am satisfied enough to cut the thing up like it's a Greenmax kit:

 

post-188-0-97037000-1427865448_thumb.pngpost-188-0-09155200-1427865454_thumb.png

 

The reason I do this is because there have been some problems, with warping and so on, directly printing full-on 3D models still. This method is as well recommended by the guide I have mentioned in the first post, as it's easier to check and clean by the company you're ordering the print from.

 

Anyway, because I'm crazy and I want to save costs, I'm stepping off the idea of using a Kato power unit and roll with Tomytec instead. That means I have to create the underbody parts and the bogies, since these are also not available off market. I think the only parts that are available on the markets are the air conditioner unit and other roof things... I guess I'll make those as well then.

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Densha

Tomytec does give you some bogie covers with their power units... I have an TM-23 (specifically made for 20 meter long KiHa's) and it includes three types of bogie plates.

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cteno4

Toni looking nice!

 

Jeff

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Kabutoni

Thanks Jeff!

 

Tomytec does give you some bogie covers with their power units... I have an TM-23 (specifically made for 20 meter long KiHa's) and it includes three types of bogie plates.

 

You know what. The Kanto Railway trains (2100~2400 types) use NP128 bogies that look very similar to the NP126s that are provided with the TM-23. The 5000 uses NF01H bogies that are also used by Sanriku Railway 36-100 type trains, so getting a hold of these details shouldn't be a problem. So, thanks for pointing that out! That saves me a lot of trouble.

 

EDIT: the TM-23 is a unit for 18m length units and not 20m units though... Maybe I should consider making the bogies myself then.

 

The only thing is that I also need these bogies in unpowered versions (a.k.a. scrap that people throw away) for the 2nd car on 2100 and 2300 types. These should be available over auctions or in the parts bins in some shops here.

 

Here is a little update on some fine tuning:

 

post-188-0-06361200-1427869642_thumb.png

 

I should check out how things are done with licensing when I want to commercialise this.

Edited by Toni Babelony

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Densha

That's the reason why I never throw "scrap" away; you never know whether you will be able to use it someday!

I can't promise you anything with those bogie parts because I don't know which ones I will be using, but I'll contact you if I have some left over that I don't have any use for.

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Kabutoni

That's the reason why I never throw "scrap" away; you never know whether you will be able to use it someday!

I can't promise you anything with those bogie parts because I don't know which ones I will be using, but I'll contact you if I have some left over that I don't have any use for.

 

That'd help quite a bit! I think however I'll be creating them myself in the meantime. The TM-23 is a 18m motor unit and not a 20m unit.

 

For now, I'm done with the basic dimensions and all. Since this will be printed in clear acrylic, I'm also having the lights separately done as inserts. For continuing, I have to purchase a 20m Tomytec unit with 14mm wheel distance (TM-08® most likely) and measure the correct inside parts so the body can easily clip onto the motor unit. This is also needed for the bogie measurements and underbody junk.

 

post-188-0-73597200-1427871789_thumb.png

 

I all is well, I have about 0.5 play on each side of the train, which is good for clips, body reinforcements and windows.

 

post-188-0-13390200-1427871955_thumb.png

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Densha

I had no idea that you needed a 18m power unit, I was just telling you of the possible existence of correct bogie parts. And they did. ;)

 

But yeah, if I don't have any use for those specific bogie parts myself I could get you a set of bogie parts for one car but you if you need more you need another way to source them indeed. So it may be better to create them yourself as well.

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Kabutoni

I'm so done with these damn bogies! It's maybe the part of a train that interests me the least. Still they are an important part of its character.

 

post-188-0-98622800-1427942406_thumb.png post-188-0-68426700-1427942822_thumb.png

 

Now I only have to do the front skirt and the remaining underbody parts. For the latter I only need to have the correct measurements of the clip-in parts on the TM-08 (actually buying one). The front skirt, I'm designing to clip on to Tomix TN couplers to make it very user friendly.

 

The roof parts are actually available as a GM set (70-7) AU26J-A cooling set (air conditioner, vent and (incorrect) antennae), so I'm not really going to bother with these (unless this is a hard to find item).

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cteno4

Nice job on the bogie frames! For not liking them you did a nice job!

 

Jeff

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Kabutoni

Nice job on the bogie frames! For not liking them you did a nice job!

 

Looking at the 'real thing' (original Tomytec parts), the detail on the bogies is quite amazing. My effort doesn't come close to it, but my model won't be on a professional level anyway. Maybe if I can find a way to commercialise it, I can improve future models and eventually release upgrade parts if it proves to be financially feasible.

 

Anyway, I've been busy with improving the bogie a very little bit and have added one part of the underbody mechanics, as well as have started on the front skirt. I want to to be possible to clip into a TN coupler, as some of these have extra holes for these kind of things.

 

post-188-0-00753100-1427976747_thumb.pngpost-188-0-81499900-1427976749_thumb.png

 

Tomorrow I'll be going to work on the other side of the underbody equipment (which is relatively easy) and the roof details. I've decided to ignore the commercial availability of these parts, since relying on one part (Tomytec TM-08) is too much already. Because of Greenmax legendary reliability of the availability of spare parts, I want to avoid them as much as possible. Maybe it's good to directly integrate them into the roof, as they don't crowd and it will save costs on the usage of materials and space.

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kvp

If you ever make a kit for sale, just let us know. I don't actually collect Kanto Railway trains or dmu-s in general, but these plans look good enough for me to try assembling it.

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Kabutoni

If you ever make a kit for sale, just let us know. I don't actually collect Kanto Railway trains or dmu-s in general, but these plans look good enough for me to try assembling it.

 

That is the general plan for these things. I want to get to the stage of getting to actually talk about licensing this -or something else- and putting it up for sale. I don't want to risk any legal action by putting these up for sale without a license. Maybe it's possible to team up with somebody and get a small company going and make these available for the public. I'm sure, if marketed well and with accompanying decals/stickers/paint templates, this could be a profitable venture. However, first it's finishing this up and doing test prints before going ahead with those plans.

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Densha

I know you need a license for model trains, but apart from the company logo is there actually anyone who "owns" the design? If anyone would own the design it would be the manufacturer and not the train company using the train.

Also, if you would be copying a real 1:1 scale train (like the Chinese did by building their own licensed E2 Shinkansen) of course you need a license. But this is just a model and can't transport real life passengers so I just don't understand what they're trying to achieve with this licensing thing.

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Kabutoni

I know you need a license for model trains, but apart from the company logo is there actually anyone who "owns" the design? If anyone would own the design it would be the manufacturer and not the train company using the train.

Also, if you would be copying a real 1:1 scale train (like the Chinese did by building their own licensed E2 Shinkansen) of course you need a license. But this is just a model and can't transport real life passengers so I just don't understand what they're trying to achieve with this licensing thing.

 

That is the thing. I see almost all models being released with some kind of copyright notice on the box (and related material, like posters) from the railway company that owns the real thing. It's presumably for using the logo and name, but that's it. I can also see it as a kind of double marketing portal as to having some 'legit' backup of the model for customers that says: "Look, we're not fooling around here!", which is kind of important in Japan. I've rarely seen model trains with the license from the actual rolling stock manufacturer on them.

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Densha

Well that is the same for European and I'm sure other manufacturers of railway models around the globe as well. If Fleischmann wants to print a Deutsche Bahn logo on their German model train I'm sure they have to pay a fee DB for that.

 

I'm just hinting towards what if you sell them without logos...

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Kabutoni

I'm just hinting towards what if you sell them without logos...

 

Kanto Railway trains don't have logos, but maybe the livery and the name have a copyright. I could consider selling them as 'Diesel trains from that one company from Ibaraki'. xD

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Densha

But these models are unpainted right? Then there's no problem is there? Oh well it might be better to just research it, you can always do sneaky things like this at a certain point of time.

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kvp

And you can sell the first parts as unpainted unassembled scratch building aids. Everybody could build what they want from them and it's not your responibility that they might look like something resembling a real train.

 

The logos however have to be licensed. Also when the train design is patented or registered as a trademark, you'll need a license for that too, but most companies rarely patent the design of their simple commuter trains. (but for example, Siemens does) In Japan, JREast has both the logo, the design and the trademark patents for most of its trains.

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Kabutoni

Thank you for the ideas, but I'm first going to find some people who have some more experience with this and have a talk with them. Maybe the smaller railway companies will be happy to deliver the license for free, if needed at all. Maybe only a mention is needed. Who knows...

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Kabutoni

A little quick update on the project.

 

post-188-0-85388700-1428306153_thumb.png

 

I've had a chat with some people (by accident) about licensing this and they said they could help or possibly even take over the effort of doing so. Probably even sell/market this over their network. I'm in no hurry though, as this is all still very beta.

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HantuBlauLOL

Wow Toni, this is amazing. You should give me some 3D modeling lessons! :grin

 

I'm also planning to build my rolling stocks with 3D then resin casting to multiply method, because scratchbuilding is very inefficient in term of time..

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Kabutoni

Wow Toni, this is amazing. You should give me some 3D modeling lessons! :grin

 

I'm also planning to build my rolling stocks with 3D then resin casting to multiply method, because scratchbuilding is very inefficient in term of time..

It's only amazing when I can get this actually printed xD

 

On Indonesian models: I actually had a quite serious talk with Mr. Sato about this. ;)

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HantuBlauLOL

Cool, got any classified informations? :grin

 

Btw, don't you also need a license from the train maker?

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