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Densha

Keihan Ōtsu Lines model trains

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TheNicofabi

Okay... so i guess... i got all of the ones that are available outside of Japan?

(Yes i just gave em all motors)

post-3601-0-77228500-1450548981_thumb.jpg

post-3601-0-20328300-1450548989_thumb.jpg

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Densha

Nice collection! Did you know that the Keihan Ishyama-Sakamoto and Keishin line trains don't run in coupled consists? Because that means that you won't need to attach couplers to the cab sides, which results in a (at least IMO) better looking model.

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TheNicofabi

Nice collection! Did you know that the Keihan Ishyama-Sakamoto and Keishin line trains don't run in coupled consists? Because that means that you won't need to attach couplers to the cab sides, which results in a (at least IMO) better looking model.

I already guessed so... but getting the "none-coupler" pieces out of the stand chassis is a pain in the but and might even break them.... i had that happen with the 300...

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Densha

What pieces are you exactly talking about? I have had no trouble replacing the 'fake' Arnold couplers with proper ones and leaving the decorative non-working couplers on the cab sides as is.

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katoftw

The Otsu lines do use a narrower loading gauge.

 

Track spacing on tangent is ~3.2m, as opposed to ~3.6m on the Keihan main line. This narrower spacing works out to a hare over 21mm in N, which is less than two Keihan tracks pushed next to each other.

40cm = 400mm, divided by 150 = 2.67mm. ???

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Gordon Werner

40cm = 400mm, divided by 150 = 2.67mm. ???

 

what I was going for is that, for instance, Kato track has 33mm spacing and an "accurate rendition" of the Otsu line would be 21mm ... which means the tracks need to be a little over a cm (12mm) closer together than standard ...

 

note: the Otsu line vehicles are only ~16mm wide in N-Gauge

Edited by Gordon Werner

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katoftw

Oh?  One of those modelers.

Edited by katoftw

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Mudkip Orange

If you push the Kato tracks together you're at 25mm which is still too wide.

 

You could do it with Tomix though. (or flextrack)

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kvp

The kato tram track standard is 25mm, which is the old t-trak standard. There are conversion pieces between kato normal and tram distances. You could sand the sides of unitrack pieces to get them closer. Using finetrack is also an option.

 

For street running, there are kato tram tracks and the tomix street tracks, the latter is snappable, so you can resize them to be closer. (up to platform edge distance which would mean two units barely not touching)

Edited by kvp

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Das Steinkopf

The Otsu lines do use a narrower loading gauge.

 

Track spacing on tangent is ~3.2m, as opposed to ~3.6m on the Keihan main line. This narrower spacing works out to a hare over 21mm in N, which is less than two Keihan tracks pushed next to each other.

I think in some sections it is a lot tighter than that especially on the section between Hamaotsu and Kamisakaemachi, here are some shots I took when staying in Otsu.

 

16688814694_c682c4c9e5_z_d.jpg

 

17124541589_dda5af98d9_z_d.jpg

 

 

17123001108_4ab99ddf23_z_d.jpg

Edited by Das Steinkopf

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Gordon Werner

Oh?  One of those modelers.

 

 

lol no. was just curious what the track spacing actually was and if it could in fact be modeled in N

Edited by Gordon Werner

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Gordon Werner

here is a brief unboxing video of TomyTec's Keihan Line 80 Series set that was available only in Japan

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k_Q5nHHG9s

 

and (when motorized) running

 

 

and another

 

Edited by Gordon Werner
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Gordon Werner

here's a ride in an 80 Series train on the Keishin line from the former Keishin Sanjo Station to Hamaotsu station

 

 

compare and contrast with today

 

Edited by Gordon Werner

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Gordon Werner

So I managed to get my hands on a copy of the N-Gauge Keihan 80 series ... thought I'd share some photos comparing it with a 350 series and a 600 series

 

1st Photo compares the 80 series (top) with the 350 series (bottom) (the 600/700 series are almost identical)

Differences

  1. wheelbase on 80 series truck is much shorter than on the 350/600/700
  2. wheel diameter on the 80 series is much smaller
  3. wheel axels are inboard-bearing, not outboard bearing (i.e. they are held in the middle by those clips and not the ends of the axels in the sideframes
  4. the 2 80 series cars are connected by the short drawbar, not couplers
  5. the 80 series cars are not numbered, however they come with a standard style sticker sheet allowing one to chose from car numbers 81-96

IMG_2954.jpg

 

2nd photo: top view: 350 series (top), 80 series (center), 600 series (bottom)

 

IMG_2956.jpg

 

3rd photo: side view: 350 series (top), 80 series (center), 600 series (bottom)

 

In this view the wheel size and spacing is evident on the 80 series

 

IMG_2955.jpg

 

As I mentioned above, the wheels on the 80 series are held in by clips on the center of the axel and not the axel ends ... this may prove problematic when trying to motorize this model as the wheels in the trailer set (TT-04R) are not designed to work that way ...

 

I have seen other people solve this problem tho (some put motors in both cars) so I know that it can be done, just not what part(s) will be needed.

 

The Pantographs on the 80 series may also simply be swapped out for PG16 pantographs like all the other Keihan Otsu line cars released.

Edited by Gordon Werner
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katoftw

A question for those owners using the TM-20 motor unit.  Does anyone attached the additional weight to the motor unit?  I don't and I find it runs okay.  Means I can save the weight for another trailer and saving purchasing a TT-03 or TT-04 kit.

 

And more of a rant that a question.  Why do Tomix supply black couplers with the TM-20 motor unit then all the bogies supplied in the box are gray?

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kvp

I would like to add that the 80 series were low platform trams withs steps, while the more modern units are higher platform ones. This is why the 80 series uses mostly tram parts.

 

For wheels, afaik tsugawa has smaller size trailer wheels that can be used with inside bearing bogies. They are also good for other tram type trailers too.

 

Tm-20 weight question: this depends on the number of trailers and the various grades on the target layout.

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Gordon Werner

I would like to add that the 80 series were low platform trams withs steps, while the more modern units are higher platform ones. This is why the 80 series uses mostly tram parts.

 

For wheels, afaik tsugawa has smaller size trailer wheels that can be used with inside bearing bogies. They are also good for other tram type trailers too.

 

of course ... I was just trying to illustrate how different they were since the 80 series model doesn't seem to be mentioned very often (other than by myself)

 

as for the wheels ... do you know anywhere they are for sale? I haven't had any luck finding any wheel sets available from Tsugawa that would work

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Gordon Werner

also for those unfamiliar with the 350 series ... here is a brief primer on them (hopefully accurate)

 

there were two types of 350 cars built/remanufactured from 260 series cars ... Primary cars and Secondary cars

 

Primary cars:

  1. numbered 351-355 (5)
  2. have two control cabs

Secondary cars:

  1. numbered 356-361 (6)
  2. have only one control cab

The (usual) pairings were:

p.351

p.352-p.353

p.354-p.355

s.356-s.357

s.358-s.359

s.360-s.361

 

Primary car 351 (the one TomyTec produced) was used as a spare ... and later for systems testing for the 600 series ... so having that one by itself is prototypically accurate ... as is putting two of them together (the duplicate car number not withstanding)

 

top photo: set of Primary Cars (w/double cabs) (cars 352/353)

 

353_J439_930911%20(9).jpg

 

 

bottom photo: set of Secondary Cars (w/single cabs) (cars 356/357)

 

357_J440_920911%20(8).jpg

 

and good old 351 by herself (note car 351 had the diaphragm/gangway connection on both ends so that it could be attached at either end to another car when serving as a spare). It may have been the only car that was truly double-ended (i.e. working lights on both ends) ... but I don't personally remember from back when I rode them ... and photos of the blind (coupled) ends are hard to find

 

351_J363_930529%20(6).jpg

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katoftw

Which motor unit doe the 80 series use?

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kvp

as for the wheels ... do you know anywhere they are for sale?

Nariichi got me a pack from somewhere.

 

Which motor unit does the 80 series use?

The Tomix resizable tram motor, which is why it needs body mount couplers and the trailer packs can't be used.

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Kabutoni

Which motor unit doe the 80 series use?

None, since it's a one-off frame. Aru Nine (Arumo) makes a kit to modify a TM-TR01 for this purpose though: http://homepage3.nifty.com/arumo/rn0096.htm Available via direct mail order or via your favourite personal resale person.

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Gordon Werner

None, since it's a one-off frame. Aru Nine (Arumo) makes a kit to modify a TM-TR01 for this purpose though: http://homepage3.nifty.com/arumo/rn0096.htm Available via direct mail order or via your favourite personal resale person.

 

 

one may aways frankenstein a frame together ...

 

p1230618.jpg

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Gordon Werner

how to upgrade / motorize one's TomyTec Keihan 600/700 series trains (including motor/trailer, wheels, pantograph, couplers, antenna & weight)

 

 

 

one request folks ... can anyone point me to where I can get the new couplers shown in the video? 

 

Thanx

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kvp

Those look like kato couplers inserted into the tomix trailer set rapido sockets.

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