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katoftw

Tomytec Railway Collection - General Discussion

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kvp
Very disappointed with Tomytec. Bogies hit underbody parts when turned. Underbody parts will need to be trimmed.

Pantograph does not sit right/flat due to the panto base hitting some roof details. I fail to see a solution.

I think you have made a few assembly errors. It's possible to install the underbody parts at different locations and failing to use the right ones could cause the above effect. Using a slightly different motor with the same bogie size and distance but different mounting points would also cause this. I run into this when i installed a later release motor into an older set. (the other difference was the color of the rapido couplers as it was made for another set)

 

The pantographs can be mounted differently and problems include pushing them in too much, mounting in the wrong direction (most are asymmetric) and using a similar but not matching item (the letter after the type also matters).

 

I have limited Tomytec experience. But I haven't come across a Tomytec model requiring so much modifications to make it work.

 

I have bought many Tomytec kits and never had a single issue when used with the right parts. The only frustrating things are finding out how to mount the pantographs right, which end spacers are needed on the motors (sometimes two different ones) and the cutting out of the bogie covers by removing all sprues without damaging the covers. They can be asymmetric too, which means you have to mount them facing the right direction. One thing to get right is to fit the right coupling spacers to the right places to achive close coupling with rapidos while still maintaining R140 running capability. (often resulting in setups that work, but only if the set is always assembled in the same car order, i have the same issue with my british 4cep unit that i also close coupled with the short rapidos found in the box, creating long-short pairs as short-shorts couldn't couple)

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katoftw

Unfortunately no. Tomytec is so basic.  The train boxes come with what parts written that are required, even I 5yo could put them together.  I cannot fathom someone completely going balls up with assembly.

 

The bogie issue came straight out of the box.  Both 6000s I own have it.  Normally there is a piece of the underbody part cut away to prevent any part of the bogie touching when rotating.  No assembly issues as I didn't assemble it.

 

The pantographs are PG16s, so doesn't matter what way it goes on.  They are symmetrical.  Put on, or take off and rotate 180.  It still goes on the same.  After 10 Tomytec models, I have not come across a asymmetrical pantograph yet.  Big call suggesting most are asymmetrical.

Edited by katoftw

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cteno4

This may be an exception, but I agree with kvp, after a few dozen Tomytec kits I've never had issues like this. I've tricked them all out and usually like Kvp said its which coupler extension you can get away with is the only issue.

 

Jeff

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katoftw

It is all easy to fix:-

 

1. Cut the seat off the interior wall and it will work perfectly.  I'd assume you could just take both out and save cutting.

 

2.Cut a slight angled piece of the underbody part and the bogie will not contact.  Cut cannot be see from sides.  (Most models have this from factory).

 

3 Pan issue is as simple as lifting the lower side of pan and gluing so it is horizontal.  Will require a steady hand.

 

They are all minor issues.  Just the 6000s has multiple.

 

The Otsu 600s have pans and bogie covers than don't hold in with friction.  Glue fixed both these issues.

 

The Kiha 125 doesn't sit on the engine chassis correctly unless you have both gangway hoods installed at both ends.  Solution is to use both gangway hood.

 

Some models have got nil minor issues.  For me, they are kits and I understand not all kits work 100% of the time.

 

The original reason for posting was to see if anyone else had come across a model that had multiple minor issues.  I've got 10-12 2 car models so my experience is limited.  And Tomytec doesn't feature much in English speaking worlds.  So googling it just nets nil results.

Edited by katoftw

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cteno4

I've never even tried to look up any of the instructions, I've found them all to be able to figure out with just a tad of fiddling. Overall Ivey had great luck with them and no issues you have had with this one, but I don't have this one, so as I said perhaps it's an exception to my experiences.

 

Jeff

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katoftw

Bottom left bogie contacts underbody.  Notice cut aways on most other underbody parts.

 

post-1782-0-40959900-1440059538_thumb.jpg

post-1782-0-13177500-1440059592_thumb.jpg

post-1782-0-38680100-1440059632_thumb.jpg

 

Green interior piece with door and window.  Pretty cool detailing.  First for any model I have.

 

post-1782-0-19123900-1440059674_thumb.jpg

 

How it sits on motor unit when installed.

 

post-1782-0-00833700-1440059715_thumb.jpg

post-1782-0-66540500-1440059755_thumb.jpg

post-1782-0-73384100-1440059795_thumb.jpg

 

Pan pulled up so isolators are not touching roof.

 

post-1782-0-07111100-1440059836_thumb.jpg

 

Pan pushed down so isolators touch roof, only one side touches roof, see contact.

 

post-1782-0-95294700-1440059877_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

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kvp

I looked at the unmotorised version and the bogies are clearly far enough from the underside details. Are you sure these are the right bogie covers and the right car to motorise? You have to use the covers that came with the cars, not with the motor. Since this set has different bogies, the motor can only be mounted in the car the designers have choosen or a different motor has to be used.

 

You have to remove or trim any internal walls when adding a motor as they are not designed to be used with a motor installed.

 

Also please look at the PG16 from above. You can see some details around the isolators, where you have problems. These are not symmetric. You should be able to mount the pantograph in a way that allows it to be fully lowered. There are multiple PG16 variants, so getting the right one is also important.

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katoftw

Clearly far away?  I don't think so.  Note out of box factory assembled version.  Motor not fitted yet.

 

post-1782-0-48719600-1440067434_thumb.jpg

 

Yes correct bogies for the hundredth time.  It is not difficult to look at pictures.

 

---

 

There is only one version of PG16.  The varients have letters on the end of PG16x to denote the varients.  And yes I have the correct PG16, as they all look the same as the other 14 PG16s I already have.  And don't kid yourself.  The PG16s are symmetrical.  Anybody that has laid eye on one can see.

Edited by katoftw

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Kabutoni

Very strange regarding the bogies. It certainly shouldn't be the case, but if this really is like this, it must be a design failure on the behalf of Tomytec. If it functions well on R280 and R177 curves, it shouldn't be a problem though.

 

I'm sure this isn't the only case Tomytec has has something going on with its models. For instance, most models provide mounts for TN couplers, but this doesn't guarantee the TN couplers actually fitting (e.g. the power units used on the Tetsudo Collection 8 and 12 etc.) on powered bogies.

 

The Kumaden 6000 certainly isn't Tomytec's finest hour unfortunately. Let's see how the (potential?) Mita Line version turns out and if these things have been dealt with.

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kvp

10316313p.jpg
 

I see two cars with the same bogies on your picture. The HS image shows one with ef wings. Also the instructions show the bogies far away from the underframe details. I don't know the kumaden cars, but the motor is usually installed in the car with the pantograph. So this means the train set should have ef wing bogie covers in the box. If this is not the case and the ef wings are meant to be on the trailer car, then it is a problem. Also there is the possibility of the details mounted in the wrong slots. (if there is more than one way to put them on)

 

10049884a.jpg

Please look closely at the bottom plastic parts. The plastic details are not symmetrical and there are two ways to mount them and usually only one is correct. (otherwise i don't see the problem on your picture, it's too out of focus, try pushing the pantographs fully down)

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Kabutoni

I see two cars with the same bogies on your picture. The HS image shows one with ef wings. Also the instructions show the bogies far away from the underframe details. I don't know the kumaden cars, but the motor is usually installed in the car with the pantograph. So this means the train set should have ef wing bogie covers in the box. If this is not the case and the ef wings are meant to be on the trailer car, then it is a problem. Also there is the possibility of the details mounted in the wrong slots. (if there is more than one way to put them on)

 

The motor is supposed to go in the car without pantographs, as the non-Kumamon 6000 shares the same platform, as well as there are no EFwing bogie replacement details for the power unit. This shouldn't be the problem, as the bogies already touch the underbody parts right out of the box.

 

The pantograph problem is also a design failure, as seen here: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/hc_787/12177338.html It's not written there is a problem, but the panto is clearly hitting the breaker box at the car end. It can also be a design compromise, as the pantograph is probably a little bit out of proportion (it's a pretty old design already).

 

You're probably not the only one experiencing this, but in Japanese I can't find anything related to the bogie problem. Maybe most people aren't experiencing this as a problem themselves.

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katoftw

Please look closely at the bottom plastic parts. The plastic details are not symmetrical and there are two ways to mount them and usually only one is correct. (otherwise i don't see the problem on your picture, it's too out of focus, try pushing the pantographs fully down)

I hate to burst your bubble.  You don't use the upwards facing plastic detailing to attach the pantographs to the roof.  You use the 4 poles.  The 4 poles a symmetrical.  Doesn't matter what why I place it, it still contacts the roof detailing.

 

This model has issues, the model just need some modifying to fix those issues.  Deal with it.  Or buy one and prove me wrong.

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katoftw

The motor is supposed to go in the car without pantographs, as the non-Kumamon 6000 shares the same platform, as well as there are no EFwing bogie replacement details for the power unit. This shouldn't be the problem, as the bogies already touch the underbody parts right out of the box.

Thanks Toni for explaining that.  The pictures should have been enough.

 

If you see something in Japanese about this model, can you please post it up for me.

Edited by katoftw

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Kabutoni

If you see something in Japanese about this model, can you please post it up for me.

 

I will when I come across it. It seems however that this is more a collector's item, rather than a popular runner. Next to that, it's pretty new, so not much is out there (from my short searches). If I had interest in Kumaden, I'd have one myself already. The Mita line version however would be a nice candidate to purchase for me.

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JR 500系

Interesting development on the newer Tomytec Railway collection series... Seems more details are added but more issues arise with motorising them..

 

Allow me to share some of my little experiences with Tomytec Railway collection motorisation... I have the Fleet of Wakayama Railway - Ichigo (strawberry) train, Tama train (version 2) and Omocha (Toy) train, and two from Fuji Tozan Densha; the Evangelion train and the Fuji Tozan Densha special train, and lastly the Ichibata Railway Shimanekko train... All of were nice and didn't had much issues with motorising them..  

 

As katoftw has mentioned the prices seem to have increased quite a fair bit and it didn't seem too cost effective to get them as compared to a regular 2-car train made by Tomix or Kato ready to run, but of course the Tomytec Railway collection trains are usually so rare and make only some special trains hence the attraction.. In summary, I will try much possible to avoid them unless I run into another beautifully painted one...

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kvp

I see the problem now. The plastic pantographs are not pushed all the way down:

10316313a3.jpg

This shows the frame of the pantograph sitting above the plastic detail part. This also prevents the tips in the down position from touching the two boxes towards the end. The top of the frame is in level with the top of the round box. If the metal ones are not meant to be installed this way, that is a problem.

 

For the underframe details, i think they might either need to be filed or moved one slot closer to the center of the car if that is possible. If the latter is true, then it's an assembly issue in the factory, otherwise a design issue.

 

So far i seem to had luck with only buying easy to assemble tomytec sets, mostly old jnr stock, short private cars and the wakayama sets as my only painted trains. The idea is that you only buy tomytec when there is no alternative, but most of the time there is none as most of the Tomytec cars are not made by anyone else.

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katoftw

I made the cutout for the underbody parts, and it works fine.  I should be also be able to make a 1x1mm cutout on the roof detail and what will allow the pantograph to be fully pushed down.

 

I spent most of the morning glueing the Otsu 600/700 bogies covers to the motor unit bogies.  And any other Tomytec train couplers that have extenders put on. I found the extenders lock on tight with friction on the motor unit bogies, but on the trailer bogies, they are loose.

 

Set up all the other newer sets with trailer parts, ready for motor unit to arrive in the post.

 

I was gonna do the loose pantographs on the Otsu 600/700s, but got board of doing what I was doing and left them for another day.  I should not have attempted 20 cars to be completed all at once. haha

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Kabutoni

On the Kumamoto 6000: I had one in my hands last Saturday at the JAM (as a project from Nanyō Bussan for conversion to the Jabotabek version) and the bogies hitting the bottom details is indeed bad design. Nothing else.

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HantuBlauLOL

Is Nanyo bussan also planning to make intermediate car conversion kit?

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Kabutoni

Is Nanyo bussan also planning to make intermediate car conversion kit?

 

I'm not sure if I should tell you directly, but I've seen some interesting stuff going on behind the scenes ;)

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HantuBlauLOL

Don't make me fly too high lol :P

 

I had so many good memories with that train irl..

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katoftw

post-1782-0-85410800-1440453579_thumb.jpg

 

One problem fixed.  Will tackle the pantograph issue another day.

 

Probably the last few trains I'll buy for a while.  The AUD/JPY has fallen very quick in the past week.  84.5 yen.  Normally floating around mid 90s.  So will hold off buying anything new other than items I'm already committed to.

 

Means I should concentrate on a layout. haha 

Edited by katoftw

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cteno4

God fix, simple.

 

Do you have your layout table together yet?

 

Jeff

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Eurostar25

Probably the last few trains I'll buy for a while. The AUD/JPY has fallen very quick in the past week. 84.5 yen. Normally floating around mid 90s. So will hold off buying anything new other than items I'm already committed to.

 

Means I should concentrate on a layout. haha

 

Without wishing to derail the thread, the NZD did the same falling 6 yen overnight from NZD$1 = ¥81 to ¥75 .... Not nice to see!

Edited by Eurostar25

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katoftw

God fix, simple.

 

Do you have your layout table together yet?

 

Jeff

No.  Time to concentrate. haha

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