new Meitetsu electric loco, replacement for ED79, etc?

[bikkuri bahn]

Some video recently of being delivered:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E5%90%8D%E9%89%84%E3%83%87%E3%82%AD%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%92%EF%BC%90%E7%94%B2%E7%A8%AE%E8%BC%B8%E9%80%81

[miyakoji]

Getting closer... the locos were at Kanayama on the evening of Jan 31, with forerunners DEKI401 and DEKI402.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2015/02/02/163500.html

[bikkuri bahn]

Passing through Okazaki Koenmae Station:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_zo15ZwyL0

 

*I wish those uploading to youtube would learn to edit...

[katoftw]

Has it got a name yet?

[Sacto1985]

I have a question: does anyone know what service will they be assigned to on Meitetsu? Will they be assigned to industrial leads that connect to Meitetsu tracks? Or will they be assigned to move around out-of-service Meitetsu passenger trainsets?

[bikkuri bahn]

I think they will be used for MOW trains, that typically work at night, as well as moving stock around depots and delivering new rolling stock coming from Nippon Sharyo, if necessary.  I think the industry traffic is long gone.

[Sacto1985]

I think they will be used for MOW trains, that typically work at night, as well as moving stock around depots and delivering new rolling stock coming from Nippon Sharyo, if necessary.  I think the industry traffic is long gone.

 

Well, that's true. If there are any industrial leads to Meitetsu tracks, they're all serviced by diesel-hydraulic locomotives, just like the diesel-hydraulics that service the industrial leads on the Kansai Main Line and the Taketoyo Line.

[Nick_Burman]

Well, that's true. If there are any industrial leads to Meitetsu tracks, they're all serviced by diesel-hydraulic locomotives, just like the diesel-hydraulics that service the industrial leads on the Kansai Main Line and the Taketoyo Line.

 

The only bit of the Meitetsu which sees some kind of freight activity these days is the spur continuing from Higashi-Nagoya-ko station to the waterfront at Nagoya docks. It's mainly used to load/unload rail equipment for export (like the "Tarokko" EMUs for Taiwan) and not having wire is usually serviced by Meirin diesels.

 

 

Cheers NB

[kvp]

This doesn't seem logical. The two old electrics could do the work and they cost almost nothing to maintain. There must be a logical reason why Meitetsu bought two new locomotives and instead of getting cheap old diesels that are good for MOV and shunting, they got two mainline electrics.

[Kabutoni]

This doesn't seem logical. The two old electrics could do the work and they cost almost nothing to maintain.

 

I don't think 1930s Westinghouse and 1945 Tōshiba electrics are that easy and cheap to maintain, especially considering they have to run quite long stretches along the big Meitetsu network. Spare parts must be REALLY hard to come by and you can't go on salvaging older engines and producing brand new parts based on 80 year old technology forever. I wonder where you got this information from...

 

Logic would be that Meitetsu calculated the operation costs of the old electrics and chances of breakdowns and offset those to buying brand new engines based off a tested platform (EH800). One day old engines need replacement.

[miyakoji]

It would be interesting to know how much of those old locos is custom and can't be replaced (truck frames, for example), and how much is standard issue equipment from Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Toyo, etc.

[stevenh]

Oh please oh please send them to Oiigawa if they're getting rid of the old ones.

[Nick_Burman]

Oh please oh please send them to Oiigawa if they're getting rid of the old ones.

 

Alas, Oigawa has just bought locos off Seibu for which they either can't find the money to put them in traffic, or can't find enough work for them...because when I passed through Senzu May last year the locos were all nicely lined up going nowhere...so the chances of getting yet more locos off parent Meitetsu are slim, to say the least...

 

 

Abs NB

[kvp]

Old technology has the benefit of being simple. A directly swithed DC electric locomotive with old series wound motors can be repaired in any railroad machine shop. You can even make a brand new one with the tools. A modern locomotive needs special eqipment, like electric circuits and other things you can't weld together in the shop and can't machine on a lathe. They are more econonomical to run, but will be much harder to maintain to be operational when they are 80 years old. So common sense would indicate that if they wanted cheap to run simple locomotives, they would have choosen diesel hydraulic locomotives that are mass produced or at least contain the same parts any truck could use. Getting EH800 derived locomotives is a good thing in a sense that they will get spare parts for at least 15-20 years, but imho they are way more expensive than most other options. At least unless they got a huge discount from the manufacturer. Still, i would store the two old locomotives in running condition, in case they are needed in the future.

 

What i mostly see is that old and simple equipment that is seldom used is easier to keep running and needs less money than most high tech alternative. If something is used rarely, then it's important to weight in how good the equipment keeps its state when stored for longer periods. The old locomotives have very few parts that can break and very few parts with limited shelf life. A more modern locomotive has lots of parts that have to be regularly replaced, even when the locomotive is not used, just to keep it in ready to run condition. Also modern electronics get old and outdated very fast, while for example a directly switched resistor controller is just a bunch of contacts mounted on a drum and moved with a lever. It's highly uneconomical to run revenue trains with such power wasting equipment, but for MOV and stock transfer, this is acceptable. Unless of course the new locomotives were much cheaper than a single EH800 and there is significant daily work for them on the Meitetsu network.

[Nick_Burman]

Old technology has the benefit of being simple. A directly swithed DC electric locomotive with old series wound motors can be repaired in any railroad machine shop. You can even make a brand new one with the tools. A modern locomotive needs special eqipment, like electric circuits and other things you can't weld together in the shop and can't machine on a lathe. They are more econonomical to run, but will be much harder to maintain to be operational when they are 80 years old. So common sense would indicate that if they wanted cheap to run simple locomotives, they would have choosen diesel hydraulic locomotives that are mass produced or at least contain the same parts any truck could use. Getting EH800 derived locomotives is a good thing in a sense that they will get spare parts for at least 15-20 years, but imho they are way more expensive than most other options. At least unless they got a huge discount from the manufacturer. Still, i would store the two old locomotives in running condition, in case they are needed in the future.

 

What i mostly see is that old and simple equipment that is seldom used is easier to keep running and needs less money than most high tech alternative. If something is used rarely, then it's important to weight in how good the equipment keeps its state when stored for longer periods. The old locomotives have very few parts that can break and very few parts with limited shelf life. A more modern locomotive has lots of parts that have to be regularly replaced, even when the locomotive is not used, just to keep it in ready to run condition. Also modern electronics get old and outdated very fast, while for example a directly switched resistor controller is just a bunch of contacts mounted on a drum and moved with a lever. It's highly uneconomical to run revenue trains with such power wasting equipment, but for MOV and stock transfer, this is acceptable. Unless of course the new locomotives were much cheaper than a single EH800 and there is significant daily work for them on the Meitetsu network.

 

Except that "old railroad machine shops" are fast disappearing in this world. Rail maintenance is becoming more sophisticated with every passing day and laptops have almost replaced spanners. For Meitetsu it will actually be cheaper to retire their old locos and replace with new ones because this will help with standardization of spare parts - I wouldn't be surprised in the new locos have the same on-board electronics as the newest generation of MU trains. And using electric locos for maintenance services makes perfect sense (at least for Japan), a diesel loco would mean an extra expense in the form of diesel fuel (and diesel mechanics) while using an electric means that the power is already there (and is actually cheaper during the night when most maintenance trains run) and the locos can be tended by the regular shop forces between spells of giving attention to the MU fleet.

 

Cheers NB

[Sacto1985]

Except that "old railroad machine shops" are fast disappearing in this world. Rail maintenance is becoming more sophisticated with every passing day and laptops have almost replaced spanners. For Meitetsu it will actually be cheaper to retire their old locos and replace with new ones because this will help with standardization of spare parts - I wouldn't be surprised in the new locos have the same on-board electronics as the newest generation of MU trains. And using electric locos for maintenance services makes perfect sense (at least for Japan), a diesel loco would mean an extra expense in the form of diesel fuel (and diesel mechanics) while using an electric means that the power is already there (and is actually cheaper during the night when most maintenance trains run) and the locos can be tended by the regular shop forces between spells of giving attention to the MU fleet.

 

Cheers NB

 

Completely correct in the case of Japan. After all, at least on Honshu, most important zairaisen rail lines are electrified, and as such why not take advantage of it? It's not cheap to maintain diesel fuel depots for DMU's and diesel-hydraulic locomotives, especially since Japan has to import all its petroleum.

 

I would not be surprised that Meitetsu has a further buy of these small electric locomotives for use in MOW trains and to move around out-of-service passenger trainsets. (By the way, has anything been said about the cab signalling system on these new locomotives that allows them to operate on JR Central lines?)

[miyakoji]

It's alive!  The chrome trim gives it a Meitetsu character, although it can't really shake its obvious family ties.  I'm surprised 'EL120' isn't written in that font Meitetsu always uses...

 

http://railf.jp/news/2015/02/13/120000.html

 

 

 

[Davo Dentetsu]

Ah, look at it go.  Like a little toddler discovering running about for the first time.  :D

[Sacto1985]

Wow--talk about a tiny (by 2014 standards) electric locomotive. If you park a JR West KiHa 120 DMU next to it, the I'm not sure which one if bigger. It'll certainly look very small compared to the electric locomotives used by JR Freight in mainline service.

[Kabutoni]

It's CUTE! I want a model of it!

 

And yes, it's small because Meitetsu has a smaller loading gauge than the JR companies. The body is quite similar to the EH800, but the junk on the roof and the box-like profile probably forced the overall height to be lower than the JR Freight EH800.

[bikkuri bahn]

As a matter of fact, I was at Toyoake today, was able to see a couple of the old motors, parked topped and tailed on a ballast train.

Edited February 14, 2015 by bikkuri bahn

[Kabutoni]

Official presentation video from Central Japan Newspaper with some basic data. And yes, it has the Meitetsu Music Horn, or 'dokeyo hōn' (f*ck-off-horn) in railway fan slang. How wicked is that!?

 

[Davo Dentetsu]

A quality spot of not one but both!

[Nick_Burman]

A quality spot of not one but both!

 

 

One thing I'm not understanding is why isn't Meitetsu not running-in the two locos under load - say, pulling an old dead MU set.

 

 

Cheers NB

[kvp]

Because running in with light or no load doesn't damage them in case something is not right. Also they have to be sure that the locos fit everywhere on the network and signalling and other on board electronics are good. After this is done, they can start using them or measuring drawbar power with an old emu or any other load.

 

These locomotives can go seriously fast, unlike the older ones. One reason for getting them that i can see now is rolling stock transfer during operating hours between two scheduled trains.