What distinguishes a Japanese layout?

[westfalen]

I would add that Germany has many loco hauled services, mostly double decker push pull commuter sets.

This is one of the reasons myself and a couple of friends who have been to Japan with me a few times are spending three weeks in Germany (and Switzerland) in November.  That and more freight trains than you can poke a stick at.

[marknewton]

Thanks Mark, I didn't know about that one. I was mainly thinking about trains in regular revenue service.

 

You're right of course, I was being a bit cheeky. The IP is now the only regular loco-hauled train that runs in NSW. Sad, really. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Keikyu]

I am asking this question myself, I can't pinpoint what would make my layout look Japanese, and not just various Japanese things packed together.

 

What I am mostly having trouble getting into my head is the tracks. I can't decide on what kind of ballast and track gives a Japanese feel. The wooden sleeper tracks and I was thinking an orange/brown ballast seems to be fitting for a more rural Japanese feel, but I don't have many trains that would seem to fit that.

 

I have alot of modern trains, that would fit on grey ballast with concrete sleepers, but Kato only has rather large concrete curves and I simply don't have the space. So how do you use your track to give it a Japanese feel that's somewhere in between rural and city?

[kvp]

Various ballast types are not exclusive to Japan, but each one is typical for a certain type of age and location. After the war, most rails (including mainlines) were wooden and the brown ballast was a result of rust from metal thread brakes. Most modernised lines usually have concrete sleepers and the use of disc brakes and the elimination of diesel and steam traction helps keeping the ballast clean. A suburban line can be a modern two track commuter line with concrete sleepers but it can be a not too well maintained single track line with old wooden sleepers and dirty ballast. Or it can be any combination of the two, like a single track line with clean ballast and wooden sleepers.

 

Imho, the best is to look at your trains. Then try to find videos that show where they are running and try to model that, including track types and station layouts. This usually results in an environment where the trains look to be at home.

[katoftw]

I have alot of modern trains, that would fit on grey ballast with concrete sleepers, but Kato only has rather large concrete curves and I simply don't have the space. So how do you use your track to give it a Japanese feel that's somewhere in between rural and city?

You sprinkle a little bit of orange/red/rust ballast over the top of concrete tracks ans wipe away.

 

Kato is goo track but is does lack the concrete variety than the other big company has.  Kato does do a double track R282/315 curves.  Too big?

[Keikyu]

You sprinkle a little bit of orange/red/rust ballast over the top of concrete tracks ans wipe away.

 

Kato is goo track but is does lack the concrete variety than the other big company has.  Kato does do a double track R282/315 curves.  Too big?

 

Yeah, too big. I am doing a B-Train layout first, then having a bigger layout later whenever I can get everything and my parents shift some things like they plan. I looked up various pictures of rolling stock and I think my issue with the ballast can be solved by simply adding slightly too much and covering the sleepers. Alot of the pictures I saw, possibly by the angle, looked like the sleepers weren't visible. Whether that's actually what happens I don't know, but that easily solves my problem and to me won't irritate me at all.

[katoftw]

If doing B-Train, is isn't gonna be prototypical anyway, so just go with whatever works for the track.

[ozman2009]

How popular are B-trains? They look like fun to me   :)

[cteno4]

Ozman,

 

Very popular in Japan and becoming more popular around the world. They are fun little things and lend themselves it doing small layouts with lots crammed in. They look best on curves where you are not seeing the, a lot flat side on so small tight radius layouts wort to their favor. Number of forum members have done a lot with btrains, do a search on them, nick eye did a nice set of articles on them for the jrm website. He has a great music video with it!

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/modelingjapan/btrainshorty-pt1.html

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xa8i6eN3g0

 

They are easy to build, fun little zen activity popping them together. Very good engineering and moulding. Pretty inexpensive, but does add up once you put on new trucks and wheels, motorize and add new pantographs, but still cheaper than regular trains.

 

They started as a toy for kids but adults loved them and that really became the market. All sorts of special trains done and trams as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[lurkingknight]

if you're making scenery for elevated crossings or bridges, something ubiquitous in japanese landscape are all the anti landslide measures they put into place. You see a lot of concrete patchwork reinforcements on hillsides to prevent erosion during typhoon rains or earthquakes.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2014 by lurkingknight

[JR 500系]

Off Topic a little, saw this on Popondetta's facebook page and just had to share it!

 

https://www.facebook.com/popondetta.railwaymodels/photos/a.346187095407615.101787.207639925929000/978245938868391/?type=1&theater

 

小さいららぽーと和泉が我が社に納入されました。
目撃です！
ららぽーと和泉店は10月30日開店です！

 

I think it is a beautifully done up model of Lalaport Izumi complex, in N scale!

 

And this is the original building, set to open end of this month: http://www.lalaport-izumi.com/

 

It's really beautifully done! Now I want THAT in my layout ~~  :)

[railsquid]

Nice model.

 

But Lalaport. Where do they get these names from? "Let's go lala at Lalaport".

[Densha]

Don't even try thinking about weird English words/names/titles the Japanese invent. They are often utter nonsense.

[lurkingknight]

I wouldn't say utter nonsense... there are time I've looked at some of them and figured out what they actually meant and could see the logic process at how they arrived at it.  There's some truly off the wall engrish out there though.

[railsquid]

To be honest, you start not noticing it after a while, or worse start thinking it's normal. Although I still think it's mildly amusing that I can genuinely utter the phrase "I once had my hair cut at a Lalaport".

Edited October 9, 2014 by railsquid

[Densha]

or worse start thinking it's normal.

I have already passed this point... :P That's what you get when studying Japanese: all kinds of (strange) words from all over the world with changed meanings and pronunciations.

[westfalen]

I still haven't been able to beat, or explain, the extinpanther in an Aizu Wakamatsu hotel in 2010.

 

[Densha]

Lol. At least I could recognize the kanji for 'fire' and 'disappear' (消火), so in case of Engrish I would be saved in Japan would a fire occur. Or something like that.... ;)

Edited October 10, 2014 by Densha

[velotrain]

If doing B-Train, is isn't gonna be prototypical anyway . . .

 

Um . . . Shinkansen on R282/315 curves would be?  ;-)

 

I don't think I've seen any Japanese layout with curves approaching a realistic look - much less a prototypical radius.

[katoftw]

Um . . . Shinkansen on R282/315 curves would be?  ;-)

 

I don't think I've seen any Japanese layout with curves approaching a realistic look - much less a prototypical radius.

You must have missed the context on which I was replying.  You made the same point as I did.  Every one goes nuts about being prototypical.  But honestly with what we have to work with, we will not get close.

[mrp]

But honestly with what we have to work with, we will not get close.

 

I’ve been wondering about that for a while, so I Googled some numbers.

 

When running at 300 km/h, the minimum Shinkansen curve radius is quoted as 3.5km, and the recommended radius for passenger comfort is 6km.

 

The equivalent minimum N-scale curve radius would be 3.5km / 150, which equals about 23 metres.  Or a 40 metre curve radius if you don’t want to spill your N-scale passenger’s drinks.  Could that be correct?  It seems incredible.  That would be an R4000.

 

Not to mention braking distance.  The emergency braking distance of the E2 series at 275 km/h is 4,000m - the equivalent of 27 metres of straight-line N-scale track !!!

 

And what about speeds?

 

275 km/h in N-scale is 1.8 km/h = 1800m per hour = 30m per minute = 0.5m per second

 

Well even my JR C61 can go that fast.

 

I guess we’re running way too fast around curves that are an order of magnitute too sharp.

 

I roughly calculate that the poor N-scale passengers are getting hit with about 50G around the bends.

 

They’re definitely going to want refunds after they’ve been scraped off the walls.

[velotrain]

A couple of hours ago I was watching video of various German layouts, and saw a scene that I thought I'd capture a frame from.

 

This isn't up to Shinkansen standards at full speed, but I must say how pleasant it was to see full-length passenger cars rounding a prototypical curve - on a modular layout!

 

[mrp]

On the subject of curves…

 

I’ve been reading a thread describing work-in-progress on a huge (non-Japanese) N-scale layout.

 

 

Amazing reading.  There are also a couple of YouTube videos:

 

 

I’ve never seen anything like it.  When those guys go prototypical, they’re not fooling around…

 

[Kabutoni]

I hope everybody realises Japanese layouts are usually temporary, confined by space and set up with sectional track.

 

Also, here are some examples of Japanese layouts with realistic looking curves. Obviously not off-the-shelf stuff.

 

 

[JR 500系]

 

On the subject of curves…

 

I’ve been reading a thread describing work-in-progress on a huge (non-Japanese) N-scale layout.

 

 

Holy crap that IS HUGE! We can run 32-car consists, 4x 8car E4 Max sets, like these!

 

The first video is taken from Yokohama Imon so i guess that is a permanent shop layout to be rented for runs.

 

The second is from silpheena, the guy who made the video that totally made my interest in Japanese shinkansen models. His videos are GREAT, but he haven't making them for a while now...