50 year old HO 0 Shinkansen

[Jcarlton]

I just picked up a Trains Inc 0 Shinkansen.  This was imported starting in 1966 or so which makes it one of the earliest Shinkansen models made.  In spite of that it is a beautiful brass model that I got for less than $500. 

The paint is immaculate and while the detail is missing some stuff, it's an accurate early model.  Unfortunately the model doesn't say who in Japan made this.  I'm gong to guess KTM, but without verification there's no way to know with these early brass models. I am going to say that this model look much better than some models imported for the US market with US prototypes.

[cteno4]

Dude great score!

 

Jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

This is awesome.

[bnicolas1987]

Hi,

This is a KTM model, I had the same (six cars) a while ago, I sold it when I bought the zoukei mura shinkansen.

[Jcarlton]

I think that you are right.  Here's a current KTM set and the models seem to be identical:

http://modellbahn.jugemcart.com/?pid=1208883
Which says interesting things about how the Japanese Brass makers handled the domestic and export markets.  It's also interesting that KTM hasn't made an effort to improve the models to any great extent.  If I put my MEW New Haven EF1(vintage 1965) and Railworks EF1 next to each other the differences in quality are obvious and the MEW model is byno means a bad model.  But other than the new Shinkansen  having an interior it's hard to tell the difference at first glance.

[vegasrider]

That's how old I think this train set is.  Found it the other day while I was clearing out my parent's house.  I remembered playing with this train set when I was a little kid, around 1970?.  My father must have brought it back from Japan.  It's not made out of plastic, but it's made out of metal.  Still have the tracks, and accessories. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[railsquid]

Nice, looks in very good condition.
 

[Jcarlton]

That's an interesting set.  It Doesn't look like that the train was bought as a set as the end cars are not a matched set(both are type 22 with pans rather than a 21-22 set) and both coaches are trailers(no pans).  The prototype is motor-trailer pairs with the Osaka end car being a trailer type 21.  The early unitrack style track is interesting too.  What is the track base made of?  If it's stamped, that's asking for a short.   

[cteno4]

beautiful set! wonderful attic find from your childhood!

 

jeff

[vegasrider]

That's an interesting set.  It Doesn't look like that the train was bought as a set as the end cars are not a matched set(both are type 22 with pans rather than a 21-22 set) and both coaches are trailers(no pans).  The prototype is motor-trailer pairs with the Osaka end car being a trailer type 21.  The early unitrack style track is interesting too.  What is the track base made of?  If it's stamped, that's asking for a short.   

 

I have no idea of what 21 and 22 are, and what a unitrack style is.  As I recalled the two engines go at each end and the two passenger trains go in-between, making a four car train.  I think only one of the front ends actually does the pulling, seems like one is heavier than the other but not 100 percent sure.  I would have to look at it again.  Someone mentioned on another forum that these are rare, they didn't make very many of them and the don't make them anymore. But another member mentioned like it was worth about $250-$300 if I were to sell it.  Like I mentioned, this set is between 40-50 years old.

Edited August 26, 2014 by vegasrider

[Jcarlton]

I was talking about the car types.  In the 0 shinkansen  cars with pantagraphs have even numbers for types IE 22, 26, and 16, while cars without pantagraphs have odd number types IE 21, 15, 25 and 35.  Here's  the wiki for the 0 Shinkansen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_Series_Shinkansen

 when I was asking about unitrack style track I was talking about track that had the roadbed integrated into the track as opposed to snap track which looks like this:

http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/400751938020_1_0_1/1000x1000.jpg

Unitrack has the roadbed as part of the track like this:
http://dc625.4shared.com/img/ZZ0OBBaD/s7/100_3863.JPG

Here's handy guide for HO Scale:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale

 

[Ochanomizu]

Hello Mr vagasrider,

 

Please allow me to help you understand the comment of Mr Jcarlton,

 

Unfortunately, the images you posted are not clear enough for me to be certain, but I think you have a model of the original 1964 12-car Shinkansen.  If so, it appears that you have the following cars: car 3, car 9, and 2 x car 12.  The following web pages might help you to understand:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_Series_Shinkansen#Original_12-car_H.2FK.2FN.2FR.2FS_sets

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10262121k/50/1

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10127681k/50/1 (probably the clearest)

 

Put simply, even number cars have pantograph.

 

Personally, I think it is worth much more than $300, despite the odd collection of cars.  A single KTM HO gauge EF-64 electric locomotive typically sells for around ¥15,000 in Japan.  At the other end of the scale, here is a complete KTM HO 885 series express train for sale for ¥385,000 http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w104937725 ... I'm sure you can convert to your local currency .... :D

 

Here is three cars shinkansen for sale ... in terrible condition ... for ¥30,000 http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w102107309

 

If the model retains its functionality and is not scratched or damaged then I would be inclined to set about collecting the missing cars.  If you have any KTM document that is specific to the shinkansen then this will also be of value.  The controller, track, station, and tunnel may be worth around ¥12,000.  Based on the photos you have posted, I would not part with the whole set for less than ¥90,000, maybe more.

 

If you take the time, and it will take years, to collect all the missing cars, a full consist might be worth around ¥900,000 - ¥1,500,000, depending on the condition of the cars.

 

Please save the following link as it will always take you to the KTM model products for sale on Yahoo Japan: http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UTF-8&p=KTM&n=100&slider=0&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=25464

 

If you are interested to purchase anything I suggest you contact Loco1Hobby in Japan.  It is run by an Aussie guy.  He can purchase (or sell) on your behalf.  You will certainly get a better price for your product in Japan.

 

I hope this is helpful to you.

[Jcarlton]

Looking at that KTM that's going for 30,000 yen, I have to think that the seller is out of their minds.  Those cars are only good for restoration and KTM 0's aren't that unusual or rare.  The only reason I paid $495 for my set was that the condition was listed as Excellent and it was from a reputable dealer near me.  Some of the other stuff was even more insane.  Some of that American prototype stuff had sellers trying to sell them for easily ten times what I would expect the same piece to go for here in the US.  For instance the SP AC6 for 1,440,000円.  I checked and The Caboose has an SP AC 4 from Key/Samhonsa for $1195 painted and more recent import.  Then there was the PRR Q2 for 600,000 yen, with another quick check to brass model trains shows they sold a Q2 from Key/Samhonsa again for $1695 painted again.   That Q2 shouldn't have an asking price over $500.  Here's a comparable model in age and also PRR:

http://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/056706/HO-Brass-Model-Train-ALCO-Models-S-118-PRR-Pennsylvania-4-4-4-4-T-1-Duplex

You have to know what you are doing in Brass models.
 

[E6系]

hmmm...

 

I really trust yamanaka hobby and marketenterprise.  So if those guys tell my this is the price, I believe them.

 

http://page19.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/x282592824

[vegasrider]

Ochanomizu & Jcarlton, thanks for your detailed explanation.  After looking at the catalogue that came with the set, It does appear a full set would be a total of 12 trains.  If you look at the photo below, you can see  what the prices were for each car back in late 1960.  Assuming that the upper left information refers to the Shinkansen.  Unfortunately, I can no longer read Japanese.  And I wish I had discovered this set and this forum earlier in the year, I was in Japan in late May.  Didn't have time to take the bullet train, had to take JAL, maybe next time. 

 

 

 

My station and tunnel are also listed in the catalogue. 

 

 

I have two of these boxes or cars.

 

 

One each of the below

 

 

 

Would anyone be able to translate this for me? My estimate I got two car 12's, one 7 and one 9?

Edited August 27, 2014 by vegasrider

[Ochanomizu]

Hello Mr vegasrider,

 

Yes, you have:

2 x car 12, type 22

1 x car 7, type 15 (which I had tried to read from your earlier pic and mistook for car 3, type 25) and

1 x car 9, type 35.

 

Also, those documents that you have are of value and you must take good care of them.  Please do not apply any adhesive tape or protective coatings.  This will only create further problems in future.  My best advice would be to keep them in brown paper bags, somewhere dry.

 

Interesting that the label on car-7 is printed upside-down.

 

I am interested to know if the cars have individual running numbers printed on them.  Eg: 22-15, 15-15, 35-30.

[Jcarlton]

Here's today's prices:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.ktm-models.co.jp/topics_list.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.ktm-models.co.jp/topics_list.html%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox

KTM has stores all over Tokyo. 

Of course the models have been much improved and include things like interiors.  and the prices are in line with comparable trains manufactured in Korea.   Brass models have to be hand fabricated and that makes them expensive.  But for certain things that's the way have to go.
 

[vegasrider]

 

 

I am interested to know if the cars have individual running numbers printed on them.  Eg: 22-15, 15-15, 35-30.

 

I looked at it very carefully, couldn't find anything.  Odd thing is, it's definitely not made out of plastic, but it sure doesn't seem like it's brass.  I can't find any of the bronze color that's usually associated with Brass. 

 

 

[Ochanomizu]

Hello Mr vegasrider,

 

The car number is susally located over a bogie, but below the blue stripe.  Depending on the variant it could be over the front or rear bogie of each car.  You can see in this link: http://www.aki44.net/pen/KANSEN/0.html

 

If numbers are not applied at all then the product might have been supplied with a transfer sheet, which you were meant to apply.

 

As to the metal that the product is made of: these models are diecast and are not made of brass.  The most common material is a combination of Zinc, Aluminium, Magnesium, and Copper.  The trade name is ZAMAC.  The metals are listed in descending order, based on content.  This metal has a soft, flat, grey base colour.  If you have paint off any of the cars you should see the grey beneath.  If you check the image of the scratched door on this link you will see what I mean: http://page3.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c450436482

[vegasrider]

Yes, the non painted area of my cars, like the inside is grey.  Not sure what a bogie is. 

[vegasrider]

Here's today's prices:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.ktm-models.co.jp/topics_list.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.ktm-models.co.jp/topics_list.html%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox

KTM has stores all over Tokyo. 

Of course the models have been much improved and include things like interiors.  and the prices are in line with comparable trains manufactured in Korea.   Brass models have to be hand fabricated and that makes them expensive.  But for certain things that's the way have to go.

 

 

Any stores you can recommend in Tokyo or possibly in Hiroshima to complete my set?

 

I will be in Japan next week, and I will be taking the Shinkansen from Hiroshima to Tokyo. 

[vegasrider]

So I visited the model train shop over in the Ginza district, called Tenshodo.  Although the store front is in front of the sidewalk, it's real easy to miss.  I must have walked by the store about six times, walking back and forth before I found it.  Ironically, they did not allow me to take pictures.  All they had were Tenshodo model trains, no surprise.

 

I also visited a KTM store near by next to the Yurokucho Station, in the Marunouchi Distict, next to the Ginza District so it's within walking distance.  In fact, both stores are about a 15-20 minute walk from Tokyo Station.  None of the store employees could speak English, so fortunately for me, my Japanese was good enough so that I could communicate.  Surprisingly, they were not aware of this forum.  Unlike the other store, I could take pictures.  The store is located down in the basement of a building.  So essentially it's across from the Yurokucho Station, and just look for the McDonolds which is downstairs, or the Starbucks which is located street level and use it as a reference for the shop.

 

 

 

 

So I ended up getting the #2 car.  I had a hard time determining whether the current cars that they were selling would connect to my cars, or whether they would fit my rails.  The car was expensive, about $450 USD.  I'm figuring that my current set pictured above, is easily worth over 2,000 USD, especially since they no longer produce them.  The current set that they sell are still brass, but a bit different.  I hope the car that I bought attaches to my set.  I should have brought one of my cars with me, never occurred to me.  Oh well.  If they connect, I can always continue adding on. 

 

I also ended up getting a couple of Shinkansen souvenir coffee mugs, and they also gave me a gift card good at a 7-11.  Friendly staff.  I also got to ride on a real one! 700 series. 

 

 

 

[cteno4]

The tenshido store is a drool Fest! Keep the credit card in the hotel room! Looks like you are having a fun trip.

 

Good luck, hope the cars mate up!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[vegasrider]

The tenshido store is a drool Fest! Keep the credit card in the hotel room! Looks like you are having a fun trip.

 

Good luck, hope the cars mate up!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

Here is a photo that I managed to take on the first floor of the Tenshodo store, it's when I went upstairs they said no pictures.

 

Edited December 14, 2014 by vegasrider

[Jcarlton]

I think the reason they don't want pics up there is that upstairs is the used train section and other stores would shoot their models and their prices.