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Azumanga Davo

E353: JR East's E351 replacement?

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kvp

I still wonder who were the designers of the 12 and 101 series, not to mention the classic japanese train front used on most trains from the 113 series and many other private emus to most jnr dmus? Also what kind of design freedom was given to Okuyama? If he only had saying in the headlights and paint, then it's a fairly small freedom. The basic car shape, sides, front door shape seems to be taken from pervious designs. The source of the high roofline idea is another unknown, because it could be an engineering or a design decision.

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Guest keio6000

I still wonder who were the designers of the 12 and 101 series, not to mention the classic japanese train front used on most trains from the 113 series and many other private emus to most jnr dmus? Also what kind of design freedom was given to Okuyama? If he only had saying in the headlights and paint, then it's a fairly small freedom. The basic car shape, sides, front door shape seems to be taken from pervious designs. The source of the high roofline idea is another unknown, because it could be an engineering or a design decision.

 

since the sketches on his website show many body styles, it is likely that he has quite a bit of say in this if not being the designer.    I'm also guessing that for trains at limited express speeds, aerodynamics is far less important than we might think as long as it's basically ok to even a casual observer (that is, it has to look more or less streamlined). 

 

my favorite okuyama design i think is the e7/w7. 

 

least favorites are many, but i think his e3 is noteworthy in that it looks like it has a pair of black or purple underwear strapped over its face.

 

hqdefault.jpg

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Guest keio6000

So, this one is also another train that will be designed by Ken Okuyama?

 

Personally, I like his designs for some trains like E6系 & E7系, the repainted E3系 700 is also a good job..

 

Robert, for me the problem isnt that his designs are good or bad.  The problem is that he is designing too many trains, and so all the designs look very much alike.  So yes, while I like some of his designs and don't like others, I just don't like that the trains all seem to look the same because they show his influence; he uses the same style colors, the same visual cues, and the same body styling.  homogeneity in design is a bad thing, especially in japan where there's so much design talent out there.

 

i suspect that there's this "blame avoidance" mentality out there.  if you hire a known designer then you can't be blamed if the design is poor since he is a known designer.  by contrast, if you hire an unknown and get poor results, you get the blame.  this is basically how the mckinseys and other consulting firms of the world get their extraordinary money for every average work, too.

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Robert46

Robert, for me the problem isnt that his designs are good or bad.  The problem is that he is designing too many trains, and so all the designs look very much alike.  So yes, while I like some of his designs and don't like others, I just don't like that the trains all seem to look the same because they show his influence; he uses the same style colors, the same visual cues, and the same body styling.  homogeneity in design is a bad thing, especially in japan where there's so much design talent out there.

 

i suspect that there's this "blame avoidance" mentality out there.  if you hire a known designer then you can't be blamed if the design is poor since he is a known designer.  by contrast, if you hire an unknown and get poor results, you get the blame.  this is basically how the mckinseys and other consulting firms of the world get their extraordinary money for every average work, too.

 

Hi Keio,

 

I got your point.. For sure I don't know why Japanese assigned Okuyama to work the designs for their trains. About blame avoidance mentality, I can't comment a lot. Maybe Japanese are proud that their famous designer like Ken was trusted to take part in train designing job.. As we all know, he had spent most of his time in automotive industry and had produced some fantastic sports car models..

 

I agree with you if the style of design is too homogene, it seems like the designer doesn't have element of surprise. Maybe for Ken, it is his standard pattern when working, same style for whole models, I don't know.. For trains designs, it definitely will get you bored, but for car company, it might be their benchmark to compare with other car companies..

 

So all we can do is just press the button "like" or "dislike" :D

 

Unless, the JR company open a design competition or hire some great designers to work together.. that will be very interesting. :)

Edited by Robert46

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kvp

A classic way would be to open a competition or even let the passengers vote. This is how some hungarian rolling stock got their new colors. (http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/920649_517168065009986_889826903_o.jpg) Another classic way is to have a company brand paint, that is used on every rolling stock with minimal variation. Imho good examples are Virgin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Trains) and JR Central (http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/9382-jr-central-liveries/). Both companies have easy to recognise standard paints that look good on any train. (and they are also highly visible which is a good thing if you have level crossings) 

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bikkuri bahn

Speaking of which, any news on when will the first E353 trainset will be completed? And who will build the trainset? Will be Hitachi or Nippon Sharyo like they did with the E351's, or will it be built by JR East themselves at J-TREC or JR East's Niitsu factory?

Recent info states introduction after the summer (if not with the autumn timetable revision, then in mid or late September). Delivery from factory would of course be earlier than that, sometime in the summer months for the first units? As for the builder, some speculation has the total order split between J-Trec Yokohama, Hitachi Kasado, and Kinki Sharyo.

Edited by bikkuri bahn

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Sacto1985

Recent info states introduction after the summer (if not with the autumn timetable revision, then in mid or late September). Delivery from factory would of course be earlier than that, sometime in the summer months for the first units? As for the builder, some speculation has the total order split between J-Trec Yokohama, Hitachi Kasado, and Kinki Sharyo.

 

My guess: the E353's will be final-assembled by J-TREC (for the most part), with some trainsets being assembled by Hitachi at their Kudamatsu assembly plant.

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bikkuri bahn

I've seen other net speculation that testing will start in autumn, but actual revenue service to begin in spring 2016.  Of course, all this is speculation and is not worth the virtual toilet paper it's written on.

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bikkuri bahn

A three unit portion of an e353 trainset was spotted at J-Trec's Yokohama plant last week, undergoing final fittting out at a drop pit.  Speculation that a rollout will occur in July.

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JR 500系

A three unit portion of an e353 trainset was spotted at J-Trec's Yokohama plant last week, undergoing final fittting out at a drop pit.  Speculation that a rollout will occur in July.

 

No... that will mean a 'Sayonara E351' soon? I love those bubble heads... 

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bikkuri bahn

Not so soon, I think the phase-out will be gradual (starting in FY2016), or as fast as the new units can be churned out.  I'm sure maintenance crews will be happy to see them go though, tilting mechanisms are costly to service.

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kvp

 

I'm sure maintenance crews will be happy to see them go though, tilting mechanisms are costly to service.

This depends on the tilting mech. Secondary air spring based ones are rather cheap, just a set of regulating solenoid valves that are controlled by the board computer. The same valves are usually used for suspension load balancing during stops. The semi passive types are also very simple. Hydraulics are tricky though.

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bikkuri bahn

these:

The trend is away from these to the air cushion types.

Edited by bikkuri bahn
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kvp

Great video, thanks for linking it! It does look complex, although it has only two more penumatic cylinders than the air suspension type, but the mechanics are more complex.

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Sacto1985

If I remember correctly, the 287 Series EMU running in the Keihanshin region is a tilting train, but it uses an air cushion system to tilt the train, not the complex mechanical system used on the 381 Series EMU (which took a long time to work out the bugs because it was initially too aggressive in tilting the train while running through curves and caused a lot of motion sickness issues with passengers).

 

It'll be interesting to see how they implement the tilting mechanism on the 353 Series EMU.

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ote-m

A three unit portion of an e353 trainset was spotted at J-Trec's Yokohama plant last week, undergoing final fittting out at a drop pit.  Speculation that a rollout will occur in July.

Does this mean that there are photos available yet? Or do we have to wait for the rollout?

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miyakoji

I just had a look at google image search, twitter, and ompuchaneru, nothing yet.  Although, on twitter there was a very tasteful 'uso-den' of an E353 based much more on the E259 than the artist's renderings we've seen.

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bikkuri bahn

J-Trec's facility layout makes it much harder to do spy shots of new rolling stock, compared to say, Kawaju's Hyogo plant.  Likely will have to wait until official rollout.

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miyakoji

I wonder where he got that info.  Insider?

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bikkuri bahn

Possibly from the latest issue of Tetsudou Daiya Jouhou, which lists the rolling stock moves scheduled for the following month.

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Guest ___

Oh thank lord the E351 "golf-balls" are going. I hate and I by that mean loath the design of the E351 like I hate people who eat cabbage and durian salad on the plane.

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miyakoji

Pretty severe, Shashinka.  What is it about it that you don't like?  Do you really see it as significantly more than an modern (early '90s, anyway) high-cab successor to the 183/381/485?

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Guest ___

Pretty severe, Shashinka.  What is it about it that you don't like?  Do you really see it as significantly more than an modern (early '90s, anyway) high-cab successor to the 183/381/485?

 

Oh, I'm being much nicer to the golf balls than I ever was to the E5/E6 that resembles the unholy offspring between a mallard duck and a Nike shoe or the Shikoku Shinkansen which makes me want to take a rage dump anytime I see a picture of it. I avoided Tokushima for two days just to make sure I didn't accidentally encounter it.

 

Ironically, I love the 183, 381, 485 series, and I oddly enough love the 281, 283, 789 family.

Edited by 写真家
Forgot to scratch myself before hitting post
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Sacto1985

I am wondering more and more if the new E353 EMU will use an air spring-based tilting mechanism like it's done on the JR West 287 Series.

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