thoughts running through my mind after purchases.

[katoftw]

Only been buying Kato stuff as it is good quality stuff and what I begun collecting.  But it has been difficult to source certain models.  ie Koki freight cars are near impossible to get, or alot of stuff just is long term out of print etc.

 

So I purchased A Tomix EF210 w/ 2x Koki 107s w/ containers set.  While the containers and Kokis are fine, the EF210 was somewhat dissappointing.  the whole bottom half of a EF210 is grey, and they used a black rapido coupler.  Why not a grey coupler also since they are available?  And the white headlights only work.  It does have red lenses and the normal stuff to transmit the light to the lenses.  There just isn't a led in there to light up the red tail ights.

 

No I'm pre ordering the Microace A6074 - JR DMU KIHA140+47 "Isaburou" / "Shimpei" (3 car set).  Since I like the Kyushu area, and Kato do little Kyushu stuff.  I'm branching out to other manufacturers.  Lets hope Mircoace do a better job than Tomix.  Really excited as it is quite a unique train.

 

The EF210 has kinda put be off Tomix after one purchase.  I was aware of a cheaper product.  And I'm only judging from a single model.  So is unfair to paint the whole company with the same brush.  But to be honest, I'll probably sell the Tomix EF210 and buy a Kato EF210.

 

Anyone else have thoughts like this?  Am I just overthinking it?

 

I have been tempted with a EF510 w/ Koki 50000s w/ containers set, but unsure it I'll just been going down dissappoint street again.

[Darklighter]

The Kato EF210 has no functioning red tail lights either. Furthermore, I would exchange the coupler for a (silver) TN coupler anyway.

 

My collection consists of at least 90% Kato but there are some models I'm not 100% satisfied with due to minor paint flaws (mostly lints dried into the paint). 

[Densha]

I vaguely remember someone saying a while back that such cheaper Tomix (and also Kato) sets had trains (in this case the EF210) with subpar quality to the ones you buy separately. This set for example http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10063369 has the old Kato D51 while there's already a completely new model available: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10170388

You really have to pay attention to this.

 

I don't know of any Japanese N scale locomotive that have tail lights.

And of course TN couplers are awesome and look much better than the Kato couplers!

Edited January 25, 2014 by Densha

[linkey]

There are pros and con to buying TOMIX trains and yes there will be a slight difference even like the Dr. Yellow T4 (TOMIX Vers.) to the T5 (KATO Vers.) TOMIX doesn't have the LEDs to the inspection pantos but I still regard it a very good buy to get. Question are the TOMIX EF210 have the rub on roadplates for it's locomotive, I hate KATO's verson of cut out the roadplate decals to stick on the model. 

[bill937ca]

 

So I purchased A Tomix EF210 w/ 2x Koki 107s w/ containers set.  

 

I believe those 3 car Tomix sets are starter sets aimed at first time buyers. I know there is no power pack like a typical starter set, but many people in Japan run their trains somewhere else than home like rental layouts. I wouldn't expect a starter set to be super detailed. Tomix is often the first train for many Japanese children because their Mothers are familiar with Takara Tomy through their toy lines.

Edited January 25, 2014 by bill937ca

[Darklighter]

I believe those 3 car Tomix sets are starter sets aimed at first time buyers. I know there is no power pack like a typical starter set, but many people inJapan run their trains somewhere else than home like rental layouts. I wouldn't expect a starter set to be super detailed. Tomix is often the first train for many Japanese children because their Mothers are familiar with Takara Tomy through their toy lines.

It might be meant to be a starter set but I'm pretty sure the loco is identical to the one that is sold separately.

 

BTW, this set isn't cheap. In fact, it costs more than a Kato EF210 + 2 Kokis with containers. ;)

[bill937ca]

BTW, this set isn't cheap. In fact, it costs more than a Kato EF210 + 2 Kokis with containers. ;)

 

Hmmn.  But my Tomix EF210 was free.   :D

[Densha]

Hmmn.  But my Tomix EF210 was free.   :D

Explain yourself.

[Sinus]

So I have quite opposite experience. Most of my locos are tomix and I enjoy the quality and constant lighting. Recently I bought kato ef510 cassiopeia painting and tomix eh500. I did a test with bridge approach of cassiopeia 6 car train and it can hardly pass it. And only with full or almost full throttle. From the other hand eh500 by tomix has no problem at all. I can even stop it at any point and it runs as on the plain. Tried with 16 cargo cars and it makes no difference. Repeated the same with tomix ef210 and ef66. The first one as strong as eh500-runs as without any load. Ef66 worse but still OK and much much better than kato ef510. Quite disappointing as it looks nice and very strong loco.

 

Btw. None of my steam locos pass this test no matter if tomix kato or microace. I have to use two engines.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Sinus

[cteno4]

The monthly kato vs tomix debate! I've found over the years and a pile of trains that its a mixup in my opinion. Some I like kato, others tomix or micro ace. Many you only have one choice in some trains. Tomix has some fearures like all wheel pickup that i really love. micro ace and green max mostly do trains no one else does. Never found it worthwhile to me to be an exclusive snob on one brand. But this is sort of a to each his own topic with no right answer overall.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited January 25, 2014 by cteno4

[Guest keio6000]

The monthly kato vs tomix debate! I've found over the years and a pile of trains that its a mixup in my opinion. Some I like kato, others tomix or micro ace. Many you only have one choice in some trains. Tomix has some fearures like all wheel pickup that i really love. micro ace and green max mostly do trains no one else does. Never found it worthwhile to me to be an exclusive snob on one brand. But this is sort of a to each his own topic with no right answer overall.

 

 

jeff, that's a good point.  and let's also remember that people have different in terms of what makes a train good.  for example, as running is not a major consideration for me, this is always a secondary factor.   visual appearance, solidity of construction and material, finish, detail, and, yes, even packaging matter more to me.

 

as you say, all brands produce good stuff, and all have had hits and misses.  i personally prefer kato over tomix for nearly all items simply because for me kato has a better 'feel' and presentation in many cases.    i love microace as they have brought as you say, new subjects to the hobby without which, well those of us who like commuter trains would be talking about greenmax a lot more.   however, there's one thing i dont like and that's microace's cheapness.   for the prices they charge nowadays, to make the TN couplers extra strikes me as, well, greedy.   presumably there are not many non-serious hobbyists buying Microace stuff, and so they should provide their sets with the couplers that they really do need in 2015 by default

[Krackel Hopper]

So I purchased A Tomix EF210 w/ 2x Koki 107s w/ containers set.  While the containers and Kokis are fine, the EF210 was somewhat dissappointing.  the whole bottom half of a EF210 is grey, and they used a black rapido coupler.  Why not a grey coupler also since they are available?  And the white headlights only work.  It does have red lenses and the normal stuff to transmit the light to the lenses.  There just isn't a led in there to light up the red tail ights.

 

It's my experience that most (if not all?) locomotives do not have operational tail lights, no matter Kato, Tomix or MicroAce. That seems to be an industry standard, so you can't call Tomix inferior over that. I just checked my inventory and of the 22 locomotives (8 Kato, 8 MicroAce, 6 Tomix) none of them have operational tail lights.

 

I will agree with you on the coupler thing.. but it's not as if a Rapido coupler is remotely close to prototypical anyway.. as several others have said, switch it out for a grey TN coupler and it'll look a lot better.. and at the end of the day, if the color of a coupler bothers you that much.. and you're too lazy to swap it out.. then simply don't buy it..

[bill937ca]

Explain yourself.

 

Because of a mistake by HS a couple of years ago I had a credit of 13,000 points.  Got a lot of stuff I hadn't planned on.      

[katoftw]

I believe those 3 car Tomix sets are starter sets aimed at first time buyers. I know there is no power pack like a typical starter set, but many people in Japan run their trains somewhere else than home like rental layouts. I wouldn't expect a starter set to be super detailed. Tomix is often the first train for many Japanese children because their Mothers are familiar with Takara Tomy through their toy lines.

it not a starter set.  its the same ef210-100 and koki 107s and containers you buy seperately.

 

 I will agree with you on the coupler thing.. but it's not as if a Rapido coupler is remotely close to prototypical anyway.. as several others have said, switch it out for a grey TN coupler and it'll look a lot better.. and at the end of the day, if the color of a coupler bothers you that much.. and you're too lazy to swap it out.. then simply don't buy it..

i wouldn't say lazy.  i've only had it a weekish, and run it about 30 minutes.  just the dissappoint of those little touches i wasn't expecting.  but good experience for future purchases.  always look at the pictures of the actual models if they are available.  alot of manufacturers though only use images of real life versions.

[katoftw]

I don't know of any Japanese N scale locomotive that have tail lights.

And of course TN couplers are awesome and look much better than the Kato couplers!

The bit about the D51 (or similar) is interesting.  Thanks for that info.  Worth looking out for in future.

 

Thanks for the info on the tail lights.  The EF210 + Koki set was just a recent re-release, had to pre-order it.  So guessing it wouldn't be the case in this case.

 

Question are the TOMIX EF210 have the rub on roadplates for it's locomotive, I hate KATO's verson of cut out the roadplate decals to stick on the model. 

+1 for Tomix in this case.  Uses plastic number plates, not decals.

 

I did purchase some Tomix Koki 50000 cars last might after starting this thread.  Some have the newer grey bogies, some have old skool black.  Will be purchasing the renewed grey versions for replacing the black ones.

 

Thanks for the thoughts and input everyone.  I can go back to enjoying my new hobby now.

Edited January 25, 2014 by katoftw

[brill27mcb]

Locomotive taillights would be illuminated only if it was running without a train behind it, right?

 

Rich K.

[kvp]

Yes or if it in pusher mode in a push-pull train or a banking unit. Since cab car operations with locomotive hauled trains are rare in japan and banking locomotives are not really needed today, this is almost never needed. The only exceptions are steam trains with a diesel helper at the back.

 

Most japanese model trains that do have tail lights usually have a switch near the end so the lights can be turned off when something is coupled behind.

[Darklighter]

The recently released Tomix EF210-300 has working tail lights (and a switch to turn them off) as the prototype is used for pushing freight trains on the Sanyo line. Could be a reason why it costs 600 yen more than the EF210-100.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Darklighter

[katoftw]

The recently released Tomix EF210-300 has working tail lights (and a switch to turn them off) as the prototype is used for pushing freight trains on the Sanyo line. Could be a reason why it costs 600 yen more than the EF210-100.

Interesting.  Could be the reason why everything is there but the led.  Shell might be the same, just some inturnal tweeks including an inclusion of red leds.

 

edit// Found the model while digging around for other stuff.  both headlights and tail light can be switched off.

Edited January 26, 2014 by katoftw

[Mudkip Orange]

A lot of it is going to be set age.

 

So for instance, my Greenmax Keihan 3000 has working head and tail lights and lighted number boards, equivalent to any new Kato or Micro Ace train.

 

But my Greenmax Keihan 9000 doesn't light up at all. Not even headlights. That was released as a kit 11-12 years ago and apparently the "assembled" version is just a rerun of the kit with no improvements.

 

So I'd look and see how long that particular model has been available.

[Martijn Meerts]

I've said it several times before.. There's not really 1 brand that's consistently better than the others.

 

Kato is usually a safe bet, but they occasionally have issues as well, and not just with their cheaper trains (for example, my Kato GS-4 isn't quite right ..)

Tomix is also usually a safe bet, but you'll want to make sure you get their newer stuff. Some of the older (only available 2nd hand) items for example have a spring worm drive, which is terrible. Their older shinkansen also tend to use very thin plastic shells

MicroAce has issues most often in my case, although it's usually just a lose bogie or coupler which are easy enough to snap back in place. They do have a lot of special models, and their quality (visual and mechanical) are definitely very good.

 

That being said, I do have fairly new Minitrix locomotives which were 300-350 USD and which never ran well, even after having been sent to the factory for repairs multiple times. I also have Marklin models (an ICE2 which was about 800 USD for example) which are downright terrible mechanically.

[Melandir]

Talking about taillights, I have a Tomix EF66 with red lightpipe in place but no led, is it better to use a white or red smd led to light it?

[cteno4]

wise words martijn, we forget how spoiled we are with our japanese trains and we tend to get into little differences and miss the point for the vast majority of the models they are a great bang for the buck and work rather well!

 

we are lucky having tomix, kato, micro ace, greenmax, and modemo making us great trains and seeming to be in pretty stable shape. 

 

cheers

 

jeff

[E6系]

Hello Mr Martijn,

 

Tomix has re-run older products in recent years.  The re-runs also include spring worm drive.  One must consider carefully.

[Martijn Meerts]

Hello Mr Martijn,

 

Tomix has re-run older products in recent years.  The re-runs also include spring worm drive.  One must consider carefully.

 

True, but at least it's getting a lot less common. They still have the spring worm parts in the parts catalog though, so obviously it's not completely gone yet, unfortunately ;)