I *SO* want this, but the price ....

[Martijn Meerts]

Rick, I'm planning on making it part of the layout. I'm actually planning of making an entire Ghibli section on the layout featuring much of the Ghibli kits I have collected by now. It'll likely just be on top of a hill section with mainly scenery bits and little track. The bath house kit would of course be the centrepiece :)

 

It's definitely an expensive kit, but it's got insane detailing and it's fairly large. I also expect they added a bunch of bits and pieces to make it more sturdy.

 

 

Jeff, as mention above, I sort of expect there to be some bits and pieces to make the whole structure more sturdy. I'm likely also going to add interior details to certain parts if they're not already there, which should add some strength as well.

 

Not sure how they're doing the 3D roofs, if they're even doing it. The translation was really crappy and the pictures aren't high enough detail to really get an idea. The smaller roofs on the garden walls have a lot of tiny pieces to get a 3D effect though, so they're really not skimping on the detailing :)

[cteno4]

thats what i love about the sankei approach -- if you get into it you can do a lot of interesting stuff with layering of the chipboard to get great 3D effects. great thing is they can prototype this and experiment very quickly and cheaply, makes for doing a lot of great iterative loops. once tricks are discovered they can be used in future designs. really is a neat way to develop a product line quickly and efficiently. in some ways a bit more creative than 3D cad and printing process. the japanese audience also probably really likes how these kits go together. i find them the most zen like of the kits.

 

jeff

[Hobby Dreamer]

I'm planning on making it part of the layout. I'm actually planning of making an entire Ghibli section on the layout featuring much of the Ghibli kits I have collected by now.

 

Martijn,

 

You do a great job on your layouts so this one will be AMAZING!

 

I recall that many here went mental about the price of the Tomytec fuel depot (or whatever it is - the one with the spherical fuel tanks); but this kit is way more complex. Its a definite show-stopper!  I don't think you will regret it!!

 

Rick

[Martijn Meerts]

I'm planning on making it part of the layout. I'm actually planning of making an entire Ghibli section on the layout featuring much of the Ghibli kits I have collected by now.

 

Martijn,

 

You do a great job on your layouts so this one will be AMAZING!

 

I recall that many here went mental about the price of the Tomytec fuel depot (or whatever it is - the one with the spherical fuel tanks); but this kit is way more complex. Its a definite show-stopper!  I don't think you will regret it!!

 

Rick

 

I actually have a set of track plans for a series of 6 modules based on various Ghibli movies, so I've been considering a Ghibli layout for quite a while. I'm not planning on integrating a variety of the Ghibli things in the static layout, but I'm definitely still planning on doing those Ghibli modules as well.

 

I was one of those that thought the refinery was expensive, and I still think it is. But I think that's because I'm used to TomyTec kits being fairly cheap. But the early ones were of much lower quality than many of the new kits, so the price does reflect that. The Sankei kit is definitely expensive, but I'm not regretting ordering it, and I'm looking forward to getting it. Part of the price is of course the licensing, and there's a lot of time involved just prototyping it. It'll definitely get a prominent spot on the layout, in about 50 years, when it's done ;)

 

I just really need to get me some more spare time, they should add a few more hours in a day, that'd help a lot =)

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, just ordered 2 Sankei kits.. An old fashioned house and a more modern, rather strange looking building. The 2 combined look to have many of the features/techniques that the bath house has, so should be some decent tests.

 

(Couldn't help myself and added a RG Aile Strike Gundam and Sky Grasper ... Like I don't have enough Gundam kits to build/finish already :) )

[Hobby Dreamer]

A friend of mine bought a Sankei kit and I was blown away. I'm not a fan of styrene because it suffers problems, it looks so-so if not painted and the glues are harmful.

 

The Sankei kit I saw was extremely sturdy - I seem to recall a train station that looked great!

 

I think a layout with these structures will be among the best around and very unique!

 

Rick

[Martijn Meerts]

A friend of mine bought a Sankei kit and I was blown away. I'm not a fan of styrene because it suffers problems, it looks so-so if not painted and the glues are harmful.

 

The Sankei kit I saw was extremely sturdy - I seem to recall a train station that looked great!

 

I think a layout with these structures will be among the best around and very unique!

 

Rick

 

Paper/cardboard can be very sturdy, if done well, and it seems Sankei know how to do it well :) It'll probably be about 3 weeks or so before I get the stuff I ordered today, it usually gets stuck in customs for about 2 weeks.. Then again, I don't really have time to sit down and build kit anyway...

 

Fairly certain the layout will be pretty unique, whether it'll be good remains to be seen. I have a good part of the layout store in my head, I'm just struggling with the track plan. In a way I want quite a lot of track and various options for the trains because I have so many, but on the other hand, the more track, the less room for scenery..

[cteno4]

hs now has A LOT of great pictures up now of the kit. the detail is amazing. they have roof tile details in relief, not sure how they got those! perhaps a pressed paper into a textured mould. but all the details are just wonderful and so multilayered. really is a beauty! the off kilter combo of all the odd bits and pieces put together really makes this a model that you could stare at for a long long time and be quite a centerpiece of a layout as every angle is a really different building!

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10201680a/20/1

 

Paper is pretty versatile and wonderful things can be done with it for textures and such. I got to visit a couple of papermaker studios that do custom papers. it was amazing what they could do. right there they showed us some of the textures they could do with a few simple changes to mixtures and pressing process. really could be the new modeling wave of the future with some textured chipboards and laser cutting. no production dies to set up or large production runs to do at once. i could even see them treating the chipboards to be less prone to moisture issues. hey even Sankei is promoting it as "Eco Paper Kits"

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/blog/img/20121017hb4.jpg

 

the blog mentions something like 100 hours of staff time (maybe 3 times that for the public?) to build it.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10201680

 

This item is limited to 12 per household.

 

LOL

[Martijn Meerts]

Oh wow, those pictures are incredible.. Definitely not regretting ordering it, I just hope HLJ comes through this time, unlike the Tokyo Station paper model I ordered (of course, they didn't have that in stock and weren't sure they could get it in the first place ;))

[Hobby Dreamer]

Martijn;

 

This is looking good! You already have a lot of track and trains so this scenery with be like a "Halo" car - I don't think you will have any regrets!

 

Its a beauty!!

 

Rick

[bill937ca]

Oh wow, those pictures are incredible.. Definitely not regretting ordering it, I just hope HLJ comes through this time, unlike the Tokyo Station paper model I ordered (of course, they didn't have that in stock and weren't sure they could get it in the first place ;))

 

 

More photos from the HS blog taken at the All Japan Model & Hobby Show.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/blog/121017

[Mr Frosty]

Definitely a stunning piece. I thought the Woody Joe temples were expensive, but this knocks them into last week.

[Martijn Meerts]

So, I got my 2 Sankei test kits a lot earlier than I thought, they got delivered today :)

 

I'm wondering though, there's several people here who've done some of the Sankei kits (or other papercraft), how do you glue larger area's together?

 

For smaller bits I'm thinking of just using a brush to lightly apply some white glue on either 1 or both parts that need to be glued. The kits also have large parts that need to be glued together (like a white piece of inner wall that gets covered by an outer wall) I just wonder if the glue won't dry too fast, or if the paper will start warping (I guess the warping could be solved by applying glue to both surfaces..)

 

 

It's weird, even though I bought these kits specifically for testing, I'm still hesitant to get started and just try what works and what doesn't =)

[Hobby Dreamer]

It's weird, even though I bought these kits specifically for testing, I'm still hesitant to get started and just try what works and what doesn't =)

 

Welcome to my world!  I'm sure that Jeff and others here can provide all your answers but if you get stuck I could ask my friend. His Sankei kit was extremely sturdy and more like balsa than card. He was extremely happy with the kit.

 

In truth, it might make sense to try a number of techniques to test the limits because no way do you want to experiment with the expensive one! 

[cteno4]

Martijn,

 

I use toothpicks a lot to run glue on tabs and joints. takes a tad longer, but gets very direct coverage. i should try using a few of the cheap tiny 000 nail brushes for this as well, probably would be faster and just as precise.

 

on larger laminations i fun a small bead around the edge of the area and a zig zag in the center. i dont coat the whole surface with white glue as i worry it might put too much moisture on it. running a bead like that is fast and when joined glue is equally on both sides. i do press all laminations while drying under some flat weight (ie book) so that it will dry totally flat. this then makes a laminent that is pretty flat. ive dont this with thin woods to pull out bows in them (basically making a plywood) and its worked well in that way as well.

 

one little trick for gluing corners is something i jury rigged up for the last kit. i just took a 4" piece of square 1" x 1" stock wood and glued a couple of hair clips on two sides of one corner, right along the corner.

 

i get the clips at the dollar store for like 15 for $1. there are 3 different styles that work well for various applications, but i found this style perfect for this application:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-Prong-Alligator-Clips-For-Hair-Clips-Bows-/261068305304?pt=US_Baby_Accessories&hash=item3cc8e23398

 

these little clips are just long enough to hold the walls at a right angle to each other, but loose enough to allow you to fiddle the parts to the right alignment and hold them there while drying. ive thought of using a hunk of thin aluminum L stock and cutting out a bit of the corner so you could have access to the back side of the joint for extra gluing there or addition of a little corner brace of basswood, but have not gotten around to that yet. ill snap a pict of this little construction for you.

 

for the larger buildings im thinking of doing some popsicle stick bracing on the inside of larger walls just to be safe in the long run as long as they are not visible.

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, typical.. Finally a week off from work, and I get ill on tuesday and have basically been unable to do much at all...

 

I have worked on the 2 test kits I bought. The first one went well, made a couple of mistakes but nothing too bad. Compared to the rest of the kit, the way they did the roofs is pretty bad though. The printed tiles themselves don't look bad, but the paper they're printed on isn't great. Also, after cutting them out and pasting them on, you get these ugly white lines where you cut the paper, so that needs a little paint.

 

The 2nd kit I haven't gotten very far with, but I tried to glue some of the larger parts. The problem there was that the glue had dried to such a degree that when glueing the 2 pieces together, it bonded instantly and there was no play whatsoever. They're not aligned 100% correctly now, and even though they're only maybe 0.2 millimetre off, it does leave a quite noticeable gap. I'll need to go hunt for some slower drying glue for the bigger parts it seems :)

 

The overal quality is great though, and they're extremely sturdy as well. Also, they look so much better than a plastic kit with much finer details and none of the plastic sheen :)

[cteno4]

Martijn,

 

murphys law of days off struck! bummer.

 

for the edges of paper and such you might try various colored pencils or markers you have laying around. test first for bleeding with markers, some dont bleed much and work well for touching up the white edges of paper or cardstock. some folks use the harder pastel pencils as they give a good layer of pastel down (more than colored pencils will) to cover up the edge w/ no solvent and they are less messy and more controllable than regular pastels.

 

this is the bane of cardstock modelers!

 

bummer on the glue drying so fast. the few arleens tacky glues i have here usually have enough time to get things well done before they set much. i like the tacky white glues as they dont run so much and if they squeeze out of a joint i can clean them off better with the xacto tip before it sets w/o it getting on other stuff much on the outside.

 

i get two or three glues before i have to put out another drop on the wax paper on the workbench to draw from when the old drop gets too mucky to use. usually can tell as the surface starts to get really gummy, time for a new drop. im a big toothpick user for glue spreading. round tootpicks for detail stuff and the flat ones for spreading larger joints and surfaces.

 

i have still not gone to using glue sticks. i know so many folks swear by them for large surface glue joints, something just keeps holding me back. but i have kits here with those printed roofs that will have to use the glue stick as other methods would be too messy like spray glue.

 

glad to hear you are enjoying the kits and like them. i do think this will be a big future for model buildings as its so much cheaper and faster to produce them!

 

jeff

[ianlaw]

Beware of the fast drying time of glue sticks. You can only partially combat that by applying a thick layer. Note that the time you have to adjust will always be limited. Also check that one of the surfaces is sufficiently thick card so it won't warp. Don't use a glue stick to glue two pieces of paper together as they will warp and maybe won't flatten again after drying.

Typically I will use a glue stick to glue printed paper onto card, which I will later cut out together. I don't use a glue stick to glue two layers of a Sankei wall together. It's to risky. I use white wood glue for this, which gives me more time to adjust.

 

Ian

[cteno4]

Ian,

 

yeah its the gluing printed paper to cardstock for cardstock buildings or something like the sankei roof pattern onto their roofs i was only thinking of gluesticking. im so old school use to using spray adhesives for stuff like this, but those can have their drawbacks as well.

 

i do use a nice old print roller i have when i do stuff like this. put the piece of paper over it and then roll out flat from the center to try to get all air bubbles, wrinkles etc out and everything smooshed as flat and clean as possible.

 

i need to experiment with glue sticks, just never have been in my toolbox, but should be!

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I've been using the regular wood glue mostly, with the exception of the clear plastic windows. I use a few drops of superglue on the corners for those.

 

What I've done, is put some of the white glue in a small glass jar that's designed to hold paint for my airbrush (so I expect the wood glue will hold well in it), and a small brush to apply it. I think the glue is already fairly old which doesn't help. On larger bit (say, 8x8 cm) there's just absolutely no way to adjust anything, they just stick pretty much instantly. I'm not too comfortable adding water to the glue, because the parts are already warping slightly, but placing them under a stack of Stephen King's The Dark Tower keeps em nice and flat while drying :)

 

I'll need to go and buy a new bottle of glue and see if that makes a difference.

[cteno4]

ohh dont use the super glue on the clear bits of acetate!!! it will slowly fog on you from the glue point! ive had this happen over time with clear flexible acetate sheets like sankei uses, turns up weeks or months later. not sure why it takes so long sometimes to show up. plain old household cement seems to work fine and not give this issue with the acetate.

 

sounds like old glue. at this point thinning wont stop it. check the craft store, they usually have a few different white pva glues. here they are sometimes called "tacky" cement (main brand is arleenes). i just find it more controllable than plain elmers white glue and less moisture so less prone to maybe warping or swelling something.

 

jeff

[inobu]

You got to make jigs and use low tack tape.

 

The low tack tape allows you to test assemble, fit and hold the pieces for fitment and verification.

 

The jigs will square up things for the final gluing. If the jigs are setup up right the corners will always be true.

 

I like spray adhesive although it is hard to manage it makes for a better bond. You have to mask the pieces and manage the over spray but its forces you to do a better job.

 

 

Inobu

[Martijn Meerts]

Jeff, there's not really a crafts store nearby, and the 1 or 2 I know of all recommend the universal glue, which I really don't want to use. I'll go to the hardware store soon-ish and just grab a new bottle of the standard white wood glue.

 

I'll have to check the windows and see if they fog over, it seemed a reasonable enough idea to use it. I've never really seen it fog over any other plastic over time with the exception of when you spill superglue on much of the part in the first place :)

 

 

Inobu, the corners aren't a problem in general, and I already test fit them using low-tack Tamiya masking tape. The problem is, the walls consist of multiple larger sheets of cardstock. For example, a wall can have the base structural sheet (just a generic piece of white cardstock), then have a colored sheet that goes on top with for example a brick pattern. On top of that sheet might be more, smaller, bits to add extra detailing like window frame decorations and the like.

 

The problem is glueing the 2 larger sheets on top of each other, and a jig isn't going to work unless you make a completely new jig for every single wall in which case you're probably better off scratch building using styrene :) Right now, because the glue dries so fast (either because of the large surface or because the glue is old), the 2 sheets just instantly bond on contact, and there's no play whatsoever. Having the top (detail) sheet being even only 0.1 millimetre off means the walls won't line up in the corners. Obviously it's possible to make it fit, so it's not a major issue, but it'd just be nice to have a bit of time to actually line up the sheets before the bond completely ;)

 

 

 

In short, I'll try again with a new bottle of glue :)

[inobu]

ok,

 

The problem is not the glue but the positioning of the piece.

If the piece lands in the correct position it does not matter how fast the glue sticks.

 

You don't want static jigs but adjustable jigs. Make the jigs out of quilting rulers. These rulers are transparent and have a lot of hash marks which allows you to true up everything.  

 

The key is being able to make right edges on top the the pieces you are gluing onto. The jigs allows the piece to butt up against the set corner positioned where you want it.  

 

 

You might be creating a new issue with the glue. Using the slow setting glue is just going to allow you to reposition the piece which can leave smudges.

 

 

Here is an example of a jig for gluing two different card stocks together and truing the corners.

 

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