JR East To Retire E1系 Shinkansen By September 29 Timetable Revision

[Kabutoni]

The SNCF's regular blue-gray livery is a eye sore and I'm not sure the new one will be better.

 

That new livery looks pretty outdated already, ancient to say maybe, but I like it! I like it a lot! :D The design could have been done by yours truly if I may say so. I really like that neo-eighties/nineties look. The downside of this livery is that it takes away the sleekness of the silver and blue Atlantique livery. However, things could be worse... Think 'Duplex', but with a ghastly livery.

[Densha]

You people talking about the TGV led to me googling a bit on the TGV and it came up with this, a TGV passing an unguarded level crossing somewhere in Swiss. Looks very weird, doesn't it?

[Guest ___]

As much as I hate to say it on here, but I adore the TGV design. It was the original that really got me turned on to electrics and HSR back in the 80's.

[keitaro]

wasn't that because the 400 was a fail!

Was it? Why?

 

hmm not really i just didn't like there look 

 

Though the e3-2000 took over not that it was all that much of an improvement really. Speed wise it was not much better either 

(well on the yamagata/akita shinkansen 130km/h) though it does do 275km/h on the tohoku line campared to 400's 240km/h max.

[Kabutoni]

Though the e3-2000 took over not that it was all that much of an improvement really. Speed wise it was not much better either 

(well on the yamagata/akita shinkansen 130km/h) though it does do 275km/h on the tohoku line campared to 400's 240km/h max.

 

Well, you wouldn't want to pass grade crossings at higher speed, really.

 

[disturbman]

It's possible. I'm sure I have already seen that in France, grade crossing at 160kph. This speed limit on the mini-shinkansens come from other constraints because if they had wanted, JE could have raised the speed while regauging the lines.

[bikkuri bahn]

The reason for the 130km/h speed limit on lines with grade crossings is the requirement for the train to come to a full stop within 600 meters.  On lines that are fully grade separated, the speed limit is 160km/h, such as on the Hokuhoku Railway or the Keisei Sky Access Line to Narita AP.

.

[disturbman]

Ah, ok, thanks for the clarifications. Every country has its own sets of rule. In France grade crossings are possible on lines accommodating trains up to 160kph.  Obviously then upgrading those mini-shinkansens for greater speeds would have then become too expensive.

[Kabutoni]

Well, I assume the crossings in Japan are much more frequent than in France or any other country with high-speed trains, making it expensive to either upgrade or replace them, especially considering the low amount of traffic that is seen on those crossings.

 

Here in the Netherlands (for example), when the Dutch National Railways upgrade their tracks to higher speeds, grade crossings are usually replaced with under or overpasses. This is very visible on the Utrecht - Amsterdam line where the tracks have been doubled, and speeds have been increased to a maximum of 200kph on the outermost tracks (though trains currently only can operate at a mere 140kph).

 

I don't see this happening too soon in Japan on such rural lines. In urban areas this is much more feasible, just look at the major projects in Tokyo that were done or in progress in the last decade (e.g. Odakyu Odawara line quadrupling and raising/lowering of tracks, Keikyu Main line's raising of tracks and a major overhaul of Keikyu Kamata sta.). The Hokuhoku and Narita Sky Access are new lines, so no upgrading was needed there. Just damn good planning. ;)

[keitaro]

doesn't make the train look any better.

 

Though admitably i do plan on buying the model only so I can say I have at least 1 of all shinkansen series types.

[Guest ___]

I can't run a shinkansen on my layout. My layout is too small for a 16-car set. The motorman in the lead car would be waving to the motorman on the last car, both noses might even self couple.

[keitaro]

I can't run a shinkansen on my layout. My layout is too small for a 16-car set. The motorman in the lead car would be waving to the motorman on the last car, both noses might even self couple.

 

lol i think i have a video in my project thread of my 16 car doing just that.

 

however that layout I will be saying good bye to next year sooooo after that i will get a big layout. Possibly 2014 till then i will be playing on the table with the children.

[Tecchan]

I can't run a shinkansen on my layout. My layout is too small for a 16-car set. The motorman in the lead car would be waving to the motorman on the last car, both noses might even self couple.

You're not forced to run a 16 cars train, I own 6 to 8 cars Shinkansen and they look perfect that way! :-)

I wouldn't want longer ones because they would look awkward on my layouts.

 

lol i think i have a video in my project thread of my 16 car doing just that.

Love this one haha! ^_^

[Densha]

I just saw on Wikipedia that the E3 on the Komachi service will be replaced by the E6 in 2014, again more Shinkansen getting scrapped. I really have to pay a visit to Japan soon before there's only ducknoses left.

 

You're not forced to run a 16 cars train, I own 6 to 8 cars Shinkansen and they look perfect that way! :-)

I wouldn't want longer ones because they would look awkward on my layouts.

The 0, 100, 200, 400, 500, Sanyo/Kyushu N700, 800, E2, E3, E4 Shinkansen and Hikari Railstar, are all or have had shorter configurations with a maximum of 8 cars. So there's quite a broad choice I think.

[Tecchan]

You're not forced to run a 16 cars train, I own 6 to 8 cars Shinkansen and they look perfect that way! :-)

I wouldn't want longer ones because they would look awkward on my layouts.

The 0, 100, 200, 400, 500, Sanyo/Kyushu N700, 800, E2, E3, E4 Shinkansen and Hikari Railstar, are all or have had shorter configurations with a maximum of 8 cars. So there's quite a broad choice I think.

Not counting the fact that no one will come to your house and kick you in the ribs if you run non-prototypical configurations! 

[Densha]

I'm not so sure about that Kumo...

Anyway, what I meant to say is that there are so many configurations possible that I don't get why you would run a non-prototypical configuration. Only the 300, E1 and E5 are not possible in max. 8 cars configuration if I'm right, but the E5 is 'only' 10 cars too. Makes me realize that the 300 is the only series that has the longest configuration possible only.

[200系]

it's kind of depressing' date=' but it would be interesting to start a topic on (soon to be) scrapped trains? Or is there already one? Of course I don't have the knowledge, so any volunteers? ;)[/quote']

 

While in my view a good idea (didn't we used to have something similar here?), I think setting up separate threats for every piece of rolling stock would be too cumbersome, and make it hard to keep track of events unfolding.

 

My personal suggestion would be to set up stickies for every department, i.e. -> JR East Shinkansen news/development, JR West Shinkansen news/development, JR XYZ news/development etc.

This way we can keep track of developments a lot easier, and it would also allow everyone to participate/share news when possible. However a system like this would only work as long as those threats would be well moderated/self-regulated (i.e. no Off topic discussions, for example "train xyz looks cr*p in comparison to train zyx").

Perhaps it would also be handy to create a general discussion 'platform' to the prototype section for any general prototype conversations.

 

wasn't that because the 400 was a fail!

Was it? Why?

hmm not really i just didn't like there look

 

No offense, but this is exactly the type of statements we could do without.

 

I mean, Keitaro, nothing against not liking a certain train, and you're a nice guy and all, but don't you think a factually incorrect statement like that doesn't add anything to the topic at hand?

 

Or am I blowing this out of proportion?

 

I found both the E1 and E4 designs take on a lot more beauty and impressiveness when you see them in person. their size is impressive and when they move their mass is very flowing for being so large. The E4 really grows as its nose slowly comes in and the rest looms. they really make single decker shinkansens look tiny! double decker commuters here in the states dont have the lightness with the mass that the E1 and E4 have. ever since seeing them in person I really have loved them.

 

I'll have to agree with this. Standing next to an E1系 at Ōmya was one of the more impressive Shinkansen experiences' date=' both visually and in terms of sound (I'm not just referring to the sound of the GTO-VVVF propulsion system, the E1系 has quite a bit of sound coming from secondary sound sources for lack of a better word (cooling equipment, A/C fans etc))

 

this youtube clip illustrates what I'm getting at:

 

 

Ironically, both shinkansen you see in this clip (E1系 M1 formation, and 200系 K44 formation) where scrapped this year.

 

The reason for the 130km/h speed limit on lines with grade crossings is the requirement for the train to come to a full stop within 600 meters.  On lines that are fully grade separated, the speed limit is 160km/h, such as on the Hokuhoku Railway or the Keisei Sky Access Line to Narita AP.

 

Isn't another one of the reasons the "mini-shinkansen" are limited to 130km/h on re-gauged lines, that those lines where build for a maximum of 120km/h conventional trains, and as a result the right of way is unsuitable for higher speeds (curves having too tight a radius for speeds higher then 130km/h etc)?

 

Interesting information by the way, always happy to expand on my knowledge .

 

Not counting the fact that no one will come to your house and kick you in the ribs if you run non-prototypical configurations!

 

You're 100% sure about that Kumo? I wouldn't sleep lightly if I where you :evil7: (I really needed a 'raised eye' emoticon for this one )

 

just kidding of course...

 

I can't run a shinkansen on my layout. My layout is too small for a 16-car set. The motorman in the lead car would be waving to the motorman on the last car' date=' both noses might even self couple.[/quote']

 

That's where temporary ground layouts come in handy, In my opinion they give more flexibility when running shinkansen (one of the reasons I ditched the idea of a permanent layout).

 

 

-Sander

[The_Ghan]

Hey 200系,

 

Thanks for the E1 video.  Awesome stuff.

 

The E1 was a key player in the evolution of shinkansen design.  It was the first all double-decker shinkansen and, to my knowledge, the second all double-decker rail service in Japan being introduced two years after the 215 series.  The only other all double-decker service that I know of is the E4, also due for retirement in the next few years.  Anyone know of any others?

 

There probably won't be any more double-deckers built in Japan.  The population is declining and the infrastructure is already in place.  Predictions are that demand will ease in the future.  We will all live to see the reversal of the length of shinkansens.  I remember in 1984 the Hikari and Kodama to Kyoto were both 12-car trains.  By the early 1990's, when I next took one, they were 16-cars.  I think in a decade or so they will be back to 12-cars or the number of services will be cut.  Maybe both will occur.  Perhaps I might be wrong and immigration might fill the void left by the decline in Japanese population.

 

Either way, it has been demonstrated that double-deckers aren't required.  They are not economical to build and no more economical to run than a single-decker train using the same technology, unless you're splitting hairs.

 

I think the retirement of the E1 is the beginning of the end of an era for Japanese rail.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[westfalen]

My first trip on an E1 was from Morioka to Tokyo in 1996 after riding the Nambu Jyukan Railway. At the time I couldn't think of a bigger contrast in trains to ride in one day.

[Tecchan]

I'm not so sure about that Kumo...

Anyway, what I meant to say is that there are so many configurations possible that I don't get why you would run a non-prototypical configuration. Only the 300, E1 and E5 are not possible in max. 8 cars configuration if I'm right, but the E5 is 'only' 10 cars too. Makes me realize that the 300 is the only series that has the longest configuration possible only.

 

Just one: because I love the 300 series design but it would look ugly at home with 16 cars! :-)

 

 

Not counting the fact that no one will come to your house and kick you in the ribs if you run non-prototypical configurations!

 

You're 100% sure about that Kumo? I wouldn't sleep lightly if I where you :evil7: (I really needed a 'raised eye' emoticon for this one )

 

just kidding of course...

 

 

I'll probably have nightmares of a crazy railfan stabbing me in my sleep now! ;-)

 

—

 

This morning I found some articles on the Hokuriku Shinkansen and the future E7 series that will run on this line (probably replacing some of the oldest E2).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokuriku_Shinkansen

[Densha]

This morning I found some articles on the Hokuriku Shinkansen and the future E7 series that will run on this line (probably replacing some of the oldest E2).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokuriku_Shinkansen

Oh no... not more retirements! But I doubt the E7 will arrive soon, the E6 isn't even in service yet.

Are you sure they will replace the E2's? Because the E7's seem more like an extension for the new track rather than a replacement for older trains.

[disturbman]

Because the E7's seem more like an extension for the new track rather than a replacement for older trains.

 

Are you confusing the new line and the trains that are going to run on it.

[Tecchan]

This morning I found some articles on the Hokuriku Shinkansen and the future E7 series that will run on this line (probably replacing some of the oldest E2).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokuriku_Shinkansen

Oh no... not more retirements! But I doubt the E7 will arrive soon, the E6 isn't even in service yet.

Are you sure they will replace the E2's? Because the E7's seem more like an extension for the new track rather than a replacement for older trains.

 

The E7 would serve on the new line. Not to replace the E5-E6 but in to replace/in adition to the E2 on the Nagano/Hokuriku line from Tokyo to Kanazawa.

 

[disturbman]

At the same time, if I'm not mistaken the first E2 sets on service on the Nagano Shinkansen should be arriving at their end of their life cycle around 2015-2017. The E7 should then replace those as well as expand the fleet for service on the Hokuriku Shinkansen.

[Densha]

Because the E7's seem more like an extension for the new track rather than a replacement for older trains.

 

Are you confusing the new line and the trains that are going to run on it.

Sort of. But I meant to say that I thought the E7's were going to do Tokyo-Kanazawa and the E2's would keep their old route Tokyo-Nagano. But will the E2's use the Hokuriku line as well or end at Nagano?

 

The E7 would serve on the new line. Not to replace the E5-E6 but in to replace/in adition to the E2 on the Nagano/Hokuriku line from Tokyo to Kanazawa.

 

My bad, I meant to say that I thought it would be weird if the E7 would come earlier in service than the E6 because of the series number.

 

At the same time, if I'm not mistaken the first E2 sets on service on the Nagano Shinkansen should be arriving at their end of their life cycle around 2015-2017. The E7 should then replace those as well as expand the fleet for service on the Hokuriku Shinkansen.

Is the life cycle for a Shinkansen around 20 years then?

 

Also I just found via Wikipedia this link: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120630b2.html

So Kanazawa-Tsuruga will be constructed as well. It looks kinda stupid that they don't connect it to the Tokaido shinkansen as well. Connecting to Shin-Osaka even results in three Shinkansen lines at one station.