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Ken Ford

Modular tram standards

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Densha

Uh-oh.  I wandered out into the rest of the site and found myself checking out Shinkansen viaducts.  I'd be safer sticking here in the tram forum!

That's the problem with Japanese (model) trains, there's 'too' much about it.

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Darklighter

Enoshima is one that is beloved for this and modeled a lot as it goes from a little city street running to private ror, small tunnels, overgrown areas to seaside in a very short route. change in scenery is amazing! most folks do it as a single small layout but ive often thought it would work well as a little onetrack modular layout.

Would be hard to beat this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NvAtYHstag&feature=plcp

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marknewton

 

Interesting that you chose this particular gallery, Jeff - I know this bloke!  :grin

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

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Ken Ford

Would be hard to beat this one:

 

Whoa!  That's fantastic modeling!

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cteno4

darklighter,

 

thanks mucho, i figured there had been modulars of enoshima done like this, just never saw one! very nicely done!

 

jeff

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cteno4

 

Interesting that you chose this particular gallery, Jeff - I know this bloke!  :grin

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

ha it just came up in the quick google search and had a few good enoshima picts at the top!

 

jeff

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cteno4

ken,

 

heres a street car/road scene to model!

 

 

cheers

 

jeff

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Densha

Oh wow.

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Ken Ford

I love it - here in Chicago we have many similar drawbridges, and the streetcars used to run across some of them!

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cteno4

i have an old faller rolling lift bridge that i was thinking of doing something like this with. unfortunately they are very pricy these days to get a second! actually would not be all that bad to roll your own.

 

jeff

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Ken Ford

Apologies - I stepped out for a cup of coffee and it took me two years to find my way back. :)

 

I've been looking at this concept again, this time with an emphasis on high floor cars instead of street level loading trams like the Portram.

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Mudkip Orange

Apologies - I stepped out for a cup of coffee and it took me two years to find my way back. :)

 

I've been looking at this concept again, this time with an emphasis on high floor cars instead of street level loading trams like the Portram.

 

That's my bag. The number of single- and double-car DMU and EMU operations out there are virtually limitless, and you can run long trains on the same layout. For example, the local platforms on the Kintetsu Shima line are sized for 2-car trains, but 6-car limited expresses use the track. Likewise, Izukyu has some stations with four-car platforms, while 10-car trainsets pass express.

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Kabutoni

Another great example was Niigata Kōtsu, which had a short street running section (officially a long street crossing, like Enoden has). Trains were one or two cars long, but there were also relatively long freight trains in operation.

 

Some inspiration:

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/niigata/niigata-1.html

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/niigata/niigata-2.html

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/niigata/niigata-3.html

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Ken Ford

Another great example was Niigata Kōtsu, which had a short street running section (officially a long street crossing, like Enoden has). Trains were one or two cars long, but there were also relatively long freight trains in operation.

 

Some inspiration:

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/niigata/niigata-1.html

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/niigata/niigata-2.html

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/niigata/niigata-3.html

 

That is a wonderful prototype for inspiration!  It feels very much like a US interurban to me.

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katoftw

In reference to modular tram sets.  I trying to incorperate trams into my T-Track modules, but resessing the track pieces into the ground so the top of the rails were inline with the road surface seemed alot of hard work for new modeller like myself.

 

Then over time I found out about more trolley tram style railways like the Randen and Enoden.  Which solved the problem of having to resess track pieces into the box.

 

Using a standard 300mm depth T-Track box (Yes I know the Americans like 200mm depth).  You can get away with using R150 curves towards the inside of your modules, and still have spaces between your R282 curves for buildings and roads.  On a 300 deep module, you still have 76mm of space for scenery between the tram line ballast and the back of the module. 107mm between the tram line ballast and the inner track ballast.  And the regular 38mm between the outer track ballast and front of the module.

 

And you can use R481 curve to move the tram line close to the back or the front of the module to suit your needs, and still keep the regular style of modular click togetherness that T-Trak allows.

 

You dont even have to complete a whole loop if you don't want to.  Jeff points me in the direction of auto reversing w/delays, w/ stops.  Circuitron, AR2 and other various product names come to mind.  The thread is in the electrical/dc/ddc section somewhere.  So you can just run it on a few modules only if you prefer.

 

It would be awesome to see a purple tram going backwards and forwards, ducking in and out from behind buildings, through road crossings and going through a small cutting about an inch deep with cherry trees lining the top of each side of the cutting, with a station at each end of the line.

Edited by katoftw
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cteno4

Only issue with the three lines on ttrak modules is that your scenery realestate is going to be in long thin strips. This can get to be a challenge, but doable. I think it would just take some planning to make sure you can squeeze stuff in and get the desired effect. Doing thin scenery sections like this and giving them some impression of depth is a real artform.

 

Easy thing to try out by just cutting some paper sections module size and setting some track up on it and plunking down buildings. You can get fancier by using some cardboard and spray paint if you like.

 

Another fun thing to think about with tram tracks on ttrak is to move the tracks around the interface so you have S curve module to move the tracks to the back of the module so you basically turn them around and have the big chunk of scenery on the front and the tracks running behind that. Fun then to also display your modules from the reverse and have the scene front and center for a but and the tracks a bit hidden.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

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Ken Ford

What I was doing before was playing around with track segments on pieces of foam core cut to module size. I'm trying to find my folder with the research I did in 2012; I had decided on a longer module that had a width sized for Kato street panels with building fronts as a backdrop - they were 496mm long if I remember correctly.

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katoftw

 

Only issue with the three lines on ttrak modules is that your scenery realestate is going to be in long thin strips. This can get to be a challenge, but doable. I think it would just take some planning to make sure you can squeeze stuff in and get the desired effect. Doing thin scenery sections like this and giving them some impression of depth is a real artform.

Very true.

 

That is what makes the Randen kinda good to model in this case. With a 76 and 107mm strip of space, that is perfect for puting 2 building in place with the alleyway though the middle. Most Tomytec shops are 75-80mm squared.

 

And the cutting with raise 25mm hills next to it, again in my mind if you can picture it, so it is viewable from the front, no buildings would be in front of it.

 

And as I said, using 2 R481 curse as an S-bend (same length as a 248mm straight) allows those 76 and 107mm strips to become 25mm bigger or smaller. Or 16.5mm more if you ad a S64 between the R481s.

 

You might even S bend the track towards the front of the module at the end stations so more scenery can be placed behind the stations, and then the stations will be more easily viewable from the front.

 

Or adding in some temples and grounds/gardens/parks allows a better view towards the back of the module compared to just 70mm high shops.

 

I think it is easily doable. And would give any t-trak module something different that others do not have. Just a bit of planning as you said Jeff. the above is how I plan to do it.

 

p.s Reminds me, I better make some more module boxes up asap.

Edited by katoftw
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velotrain

I just had a thought about an alternate approach to modules, more aligned with the European FREMO concept:

 

http://www.fremo-net.eu/index.php?id=23&L=6

 

This gets away from any "cookie cutter" design specs, so each modeler can build exactly what interests them - with the only hard requirements being related to railhead height and inter-module connections.  I saw a post commenting that two builders found the T-trak size specs too limiting for  module design.  I gather that there is a digital trackplan for each FREMO module, and a designated designer plans the set-up for each meet.  Note that these set-ups are operation-oriented for the modelers themselves, and not generally intended for the public.

 

Part of the impetus was remembering some American Flyer modules that my father built circa 1952.  He got tired of needing to assemble multiple sections of straight or curved track every time we set-up, so he attached the track to shaped plywood panels in the groupings that we most-often used.  There were straight sections, 90 and 180 degree curves, small yards (~3 tracks), an enginehouse, etc.  At a minimum we could build a small loop with two (equal) straights and the 180 degree curves, and other times we used all the components and the system sprawled through every room in our small NYC apartment.

 

I've been designing a tram terminal / maintenance facility / office complex for my newly-acquired UniTram set, and plan to build it as an independent module so that I can connect it where and when I want.  It will essentially be a balloon loop starting with the 25 mm - 33 mm transition section.  It can either connect at one end of the line, or at a mid-line turnout - which I gather is often the case in Japan (Toden-Arakawa et al).  Since it isn't on the street, I'll build it with Atlas code 55 flextrack and Peco short turnouts. 

 

After thinking about the old AF modules, I'm now considering building all of the layout in this manner.  Each loop / city block will have one of the corners replaced with a turnout, or perhaps a turnout at two corners to allow a "pass-through" run without going around the loop.  The spring action on the Kato turnouts will allow easy analog automation.  I'm currently thinking about downtown/skyscraper, commercial district, housing, and industrial modules.  Although - except for the first, I gather that these are often intermingled in Japanese cities, and my forays into Streetview would tend to confirm this.  Maybe there's no word for zoning in Japanese ;-)

 

Obviously these aren't modules in the traditional sense, in that they aren't interchangeable.  However, they're also not a "segmented layout", which is built in separate pieces but can only be assembled in a single manner.  I'm considering this for my own purposes, but there's no reason a group couldn't do something similar.  However, as with FREMO, someone would need to know what modules were coming in advance and figure out a design.  Also, as with FREMO, it might make sense for the set-up to be linear, with a balloon loop at each end of the double-tracked line.  Someone would need to figure out how to keep multiple trams operating simultaneously without colliding.

 

Charles

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kvp

Have you heard about EasyTrolley?

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/ET-dwgs/ETdrawings.htm

It's a very complex, easy to build and easy to expand system that uses the Tomix tram track system. Also buildable on tables without using modules or anything permanent.

 

 

Note that these set-ups are operation-oriented for the modelers themselves, and not generally intended for the public.

Not really, they are intended for both. The modellers get to play with their trains and the public gets to see real traffic following a set timetable. Also, this is the reason many model clubs have their name and logo on the back of their teeshirts, because most visitors will only see the back of the operators.

Edited by kvp

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velotrain

> "It's a very complex, easy to build and easy to expand system"  That sounds a bit contradictory  ;-)

 

I looked at it last week, and I'm not quite sure just what it is.  From what I see, it uses Tomix Mini Rail track set up as you wish for each "event".  What I don't see is any particular method, or structure.  Like my father, I don't want to have to connect a lot of track each time that I want to operate.  I'm also interested in having modules built with flextrack, and also possibly some built with Tomix track.  I also prefer a 48" + track height for operating.

 

What I'm planning to do is create large modules that will become elements of a temporary layout.  They can be arranged in varying formats, and not all of them need to be used on any one occasion.  I'm feeling that this is what would work best for me, and the great thing about model railroading is that each person can do whatever makes them happy.

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Kabutoni

For those interested, the Japanese T-Trak Network just started a Facebook page (I think partially because I joined in): https://m.facebook.com/groups/287301574782550 slowly standards and pictures are being added. It's still a young page, so give it some time to evolve.

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cteno4

Toni,

 

Have them make it public so non Facebook folks can look!

 

Thanks

 

Jeff

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