Japanese model railroading traditions

[rankodd]

Not everything in a New England mill town of the early thirties would look as run-down and rooted as portrayed on the F&SM.

 

I applaud the modelling ability of the guy who built that place, but, Holey Moley Batman! Someone needs to buy him some new cans of paint! He's accidentally mixed all of his together and gotten dirt brown as the only colour left to use!

 

I actually think I know exactly why it looks like that.

 

That's what a building built in the 30's looks like today. They guy's entire layout looks like it was built in the 30s, and then used for 70 years without any new construction, paint, and only minimal maintenance, and we're viewing the end result.

 

I grew up in Canada's prairie's, and that's the sort of thing that most people model around here. A lot of flat, brown grassland with a few tumble down buildings, a grain elevator, and a run down single street small town from the 50's.

 

I find it boring. It's bad enough living here :) And that's precisely why I'm modelling the busiest and most modern Japanese Urban scene that I possibly can :)

[Kabutoni]

For me, model trains anywhere in the world are the same: there is a thing for anyone and anyone can go about their business how they like. With Japanese model trains I've encountered the same things, though they seemed to focus on rather static layouts up until the release of the Tomytec building collections.

 

 

 

Below are my thoughts on this subject. Not to be taken too serious.

 

The cleanliness is I think something that can be found on German and Dutch layouts as well. I'm using these examples because I grew up with these kind of models and layouts.

 

Here in Germany most layouts I've seen have no to little weathering, monotone grass fields and forests of equal trees. However, there are a few exceptions as always. This is probably because of the landscapes and romantic little villages. Most buildings and streets in rural areas (in the western part of Germany mostly) are clean, well maintained, colourful and almost every car is washed at least once a month (if you have a very dirty car here, you are frowned upon). Trains as well are well maintained and cleaned from the outside (at least nowadays), so it's not that odd to see the same thing reflected in the hobby as well.

 

The same goes in a way for Dutch layouts. The landscape in RL is almost all planned and man made (even nature is planned) and almost everything is made for efficiency, but without neglecting looks. The trains always had some kind of unity in livery, streets are well maintained and the landscape reflects the same rigidity. Cities, since the 1930, are planned in almost standard order and many suburbs (and even city centres) actually look like another.

 

I think the same goes for Japan, but there the 'city planning' or at least the city growth is more organical, rather then planned along rigid lines. The natural landscape is, in contrast with the previous mentioned German and Dutch examples, very rough and chaotic. The land that is cultivated is actually also quite disorderly due to landownership differences, but is well maintained and clean.

 

This cleanliness in Japan is however, I think, something modern, whereas in Germany and the Netherlands this was already pursued a few decades in advance of Japan. The Japanese countryside was first accessible for bigger amounts of traffic after the construction of highways in the late 1960s and 1970s, whereas this was already done in the Netherlands and Germany a few decades earlier. However, overall cleanliness is something of all times in Japan, but all-round modern looks are something very recent. Until the mid-1980s, rural Japan looked like it just stepped out of the late Taisho era, rather than the Showa era. The economic boom also helped in this process. Maybe this can be called a Japanese rural revolution.

 

Gah, my brain is going places... I could write a dissertation on this topic: Japanese City Planning and Traditions on Model Train Layouts.

 

 

 

Anyway, nowadays with the Tomytec releases, it seems that Japanese modelling is going toward a more realistic approach to modelling. Most Tomytec buildings already come weathered and are even provided with scattered parts, tools and disorderly placed things. This seemed to come at the same time as the 'modern-showa-boom' a few years ago, with the film 'Always Sanchôme no Yûhi' (Always sunset on neighbourhood no.3) as one of the highlights.

 

What I'm trying to say is that Japanese layouts in general look clean, but with the dawning of Tomytec houses (cheap and fun to make), the Japanese model train traditions are starting to shift.

 

 

 

How can you look at that all the time and not get depressed?

 

I promptly wanted to take a shower to wash the dirt and dust off me.

[Nick_Burman]

Any issue of Japanese magazines "RM Models" and "Hobby of Model Railroading" has examples of painting, weathering, scratch building and modeling in general that would hold their own against or surpass anything in Model Railroader.

 

I've noticed this myself, although I reckon that it wouldn't be too hard to surpass some of the work featured in some recent issues of "Model Railroader".

 

Martin makes a good point about subtle weathering being most appropriate for models of Japanese trains. Observation of the real thing is the key to creating a convincing weathered model. One thing I notice with a lot of weathered models of North American trains in magazines and online is that the person building them merely copies the weathering they've seen on other models, rather than trying to replicate what real trains look like.

 

As a result there are many weathered models that look ridiculously overdone, utterly unrealistic and just like everybody else's efforts. It reminds me of the way that the "Verlinden style" of painting and weathering seemed became the de-facto standard in the military/scale modelling circles some years ago. I couldn't abide models painted that way, much as I can't abide railway models that are "artistically" weathered without any reference to the real thing. Models of steam locos that have been daubed with various colours and washes for no rhyme or reason really irk me!

 

A number of posters have noted that for most Japanese trains, weathering should be limited to brake dust and lubricant stains on the running gear, and a bit of roof dirt. About the only exceptions I can think of to this are their steam locos. They seem to be either quite well-kept and clean, or absolutely filthy.

 

My two cents worth!

 

Mark.

 

 

Don't forget the black patch around railcar exhaust pipes and the brown patch on the roof of electric trains because of pan shoe wear.

 

 

Cheers NB

[spacecadet]

I actually think I know exactly why it looks like that.

 

That's what a building built in the 30's looks like today. They guy's entire layout looks like it was built in the 30s, and then used for 70 years without any new construction, paint, and only minimal maintenance, and we're viewing the end result.

 

I agree.  It seems a common fallacy; people think the way they're seeing things now is the way they always were.  It's the same reason why whenever somebody makes a movie about the ancient Greeks, all the statues are white - in reality, they were painted bright colors from head to toe.  The past in general was a lot brighter and more colorful than we think of it, because we always see things from the past as either surviving but worn down structures and objects, or in media that's itself worn out or black and white or sepia toned.  

 

I actually think I'm bothered by a *lot* of the weathering I see on layouts for this reason... the layout we're talking about here is an extreme example but I often see layouts that just have a distinct layer of dirt over everything, peeling and faded paint all over the place, etc.  I feel like some modelers do it just because they can.  I guess if you have the skill and you just like doing it, there's nothing really wrong with it if you don't mind your layout looking like it's been bombed and left a post-apocalyptic wasteland.  But most buildings and trains just don't look like that, and never did in any era; they'll usually have noticeable dirt in very specific areas and that's it, and that's assuming they haven't been cleaned in a while.

 

One other thing I feel like some modelers don't pay heed to is the fact that everything is exaggerated when it's in miniature.  You put a tiny layer of grime on an N scale train car or a building and it's going to look equivalent to an inch thick layer of dirt in real life.  It's just really hard to control that.  I think if you imagine the views you've had where you're on observation decks of tall buildings (or just looking down from a high floor), everything always looks really clean.  You can't really see much "weathering" in real life from an equivalent scale distance to what you're looking at on a layout, because a lot of flaws, including things like chipped paint and of course dirt, are just really hard to perceive from that distance.

 

This is doubly true in any area that's generally pretty clean anyway, like Japan.

[Sir Madog]

I do have my issue with weathering. Any object stored or moved outside is subject to the effects of rain, dust or grime, that´s a fact. Even in countries, like Japan, Germany (in the good old days), where people took care, these effects are visible, but only when viewed out of a short distance. My viweing distance for my N scale layout is about 2 ft., making it a distance of 300 ft. in real life. From a distance like that, you hardly notice the weathering effects on well maintained equipment.

 

I think, it is sufficient to just dull down and shiny and "plasticky" appearance with a coat of dull clear paint to capture a "used, but not abused" look.

[Mudkip Orange]

The main reason I was banned from the MR forum

You got banned from the MR forums? That's awesome man, awesome.

 

Oh as for Japanese cities being "built for practicality"... personally I think that makes them more attractive. Why the hell NOT put a cement plant next to a chinese restaurant? And what makes residential housing so sacred that it must be miles removed from every other type of building? It's BS. I live in a "walkable" neighborhood, but since it's all zoned residential there's nothing to walk to. What I wouldn't give for some vending machines or a nice convenience store and a quick-serve restaurant...

[Tenorikuma]

The main reason I was banned from the MR forum

You got banned from the MR forums? That's awesome man, awesome.

 

Oh as for Japanese cities being "built for practicality"... personally I think that makes them more attractive. Why the hell NOT put a cement plant next to a chinese restaurant? And what makes residential housing so sacred that it must be miles removed from every other type of building? It's BS. I live in a "walkable" neighborhood, but since it's all zoned residential there's nothing to walk to. What I wouldn't give for some vending machines or a nice convenience store and a quick-serve restaurant...

 

Agreed. I love that in my "residential" neighbourhood in Nagoya, I have to walk less than a block to visit a drug store, book store, corner store, liquor store, onigiri shop, udon shop, curry shop, bakery, Italian restaurant, coffee shop (four of them), etc. There are plenty of nearby industrial businesses that don't bother anyone — machine shops, tatami makers, a paper company, and a massive candy factory that occasionally gives off the scent of bubblegum or spearmint.

[Samurai_Chris]

The main reason I was banned from the MR forum

You got banned from the MR forums? That's awesome man, awesome.

 

Oh as for Japanese cities being "built for practicality"... personally I think that makes them more attractive. Why the hell NOT put a cement plant next to a chinese restaurant? And what makes residential housing so sacred that it must be miles removed from every other type of building? It's BS. I live in a "walkable" neighborhood, but since it's all zoned residential there's nothing to walk to. What I wouldn't give for some vending machines or a nice convenience store and a quick-serve restaurant...

 

Hey, I have no problem with you moving to Japan then..  I was just playing Devils Advocate..

 

Some people see Japan as a utopia that it simply is not in all honesty!

 

A cement factory next to a restaurant? Enjoy your meal champion!!

 

As for me, I am ready for some good old Australian fresh air and country living.. And a nice environment for my children to go to school and participate in sports...

[disturbman]

I've to agree, Japan might be cleaner than the West but it's also as run down as the West... well, as part of the West. It's difficult to make generalisations. For me, run down places in Japan reminded me of Mediteranean cities. Something to do with the weather I guess.

 

But the worst place I've ever been in Japan was Kagoshima. The place is dirty and run down, eaten by humidity and the volcano ashes. There is something Napolitan about it. It's a beautifull city. Nagasaki also was quite rundown but so beautifull.

 

If you go isolated places and/or poorer places for sure you'll find things more dilapidated than in Tokyo and the other big cities.

[marknewton]

You got banned from the MR forums? That's awesome man, awesome.

 

I was banned after this admittedly ill-tempered exchange...

 

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/141114.aspx?PageIndex=2

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[bikkuri bahn]

If you go isolated places and/or poorer places for sure you'll find things more dilapidated than in Tokyo and the other big cities.

 

Yes, you certainly will. There are places in Osaka that look like Skid Row in Los Angeles, as well as more average neighborhoods that nonetheless have tenements in rundown, nearly falling down condition.  But that just shows the human condition, no different than anywhere else in the world.  The thinking of Japan as a utopia is more a reflection of the person who holds that view than actual conditions in Japan- Japanese themselves don't view their nation as a utopia- far from it, but they do value the relative safety and peace of the society they live in.  I for one love the variety, organized chaos and diversity of texture of Japanese cities, but despise the soulless autocentric suburbs with highways lined with big box chain stores and poor public transportation that unfortunately exist in the regional cities here (including Sapporo).  You can probably guess why I have that feeling based on my nationality.

[marknewton]

I actually think I know exactly why it looks like that. That's what a building built in the 30's looks like today. They guy's entire layout looks like it was built in the 30s, and then used for 70 years without any new construction, paint, and only minimal maintenance, and we're viewing the end result.

 

I agree.  It seems a common fallacy; people think the way they're seeing things now is the way they always were.  It's the same reason why whenever somebody makes a movie about the ancient Greeks, all the statues are white - in reality, they were painted bright colors from head to toe.  The past in general was a lot brighter and more colorful than we think of it, because we always see things from the past as either surviving but worn down structures and objects, or in media that's itself worn out or black and white or sepia toned.

 

I reckon that both these comments are valid explanations of this trend, but I also think there's another factor - the tendency for modellers to copy the work of other, high-profile, modellers. In the case of the F&SM, the builder was paying homage to the well known Gorre & Daphetid, which was very widely publicised in the US modelling press of the day. In turn, the F&SM itself has become very well known.

 

Now, I agree with Toni that how people build and present their layouts is a matter of individual choice. But the amount of uncritical media coverage these layouts have received, and the way in which they've been hyped as the ideal that other modellers should strive to achieve has meant that a lot of people have essentially been bluffed into thinking that this is the only way to build and present a layout. So rather than go out and observe the real world and model what they see, they simply copy what the modelling media say are great layouts. Again, that's a matter of personal choice, but I've always thought it odd that people would try to realise someone else's dream, rather than their own.

 

When it comes to the various nostrums for weathering model trains, I admit I have a "bee in my bonnet" about steam loco weathering. Most of the articles I've seen published about this subject display a profound ignorance about how they work & why they weather as they do, and a lot of what is presented as fact is just BS. But again, once an article or photo by a high-profile modeller is published, it seems to become the orthodoxy, and the next 17 authors duly trot out the same received wisdom.

 

Another 2 cents worth...

 

Mark.

[KenS]

Well, magazines exist to sell issues (and MR's publishers also exist to sell books about layouts they've featured), and there aren't a lot of layouts out there worth more than a single article.  The articles I recall about the F&SM seemed to focus on the creator's attention to detail, rather than pushing the appearance as desirable, although I'd agree that readers could well take away that message also. I certainly enjoyed those articles and the photos, without the slightest desire to recreate that kind of world.

 

And keep in mind that this is the same MR that also published several articles about Pelle Søeborg's excellent Daneville & Donner River layout, which is about as far as you can get from run-down urban brickwork. So they're clearly not tied to just the old stuff (and their own house layout has a reasonably clean modern look as well). Perhaps I'm biased (I've had a subscription to MR for more than a decade), but I think they're just catering to their audience, and part of that audience likes that look.

 

I think the "run down brickwork" school of layout building is rooted in the nostalgia for steam, and based on the memories of the generation who grew up with its final years, which probably tend to exaggerate what they recall.  I also agree with Mark's comment about the influence of the G&D on that generation of modelers. However, many of these layouts are depicting the 1950's, when urban areas were significantly run down between the depression in the 30's and the war years, and railroads in the U.S. had been going bankrupt repeatedly for 25 years and spending very little on anything away from major passenger stations and "name" trains, or the freight loco building allowed by the government during WWII. Those brick buildings were at least 30 years old, and many were probably 50 or 75. Modeling 1910 looking like that would be wrong.  Modeling 1955 that way is probably fairly accurate.

 

It's not my cup of tea: before I got into Japanese trains I was modeling contemporary shortline rural freight. I never got around to weathering anything, and "run down" really wouldn't have been appropriate for most of my buildings (not that I ever got many built). And now I'm modeling the very orderly and clean Tokyo scene. But I can appreciate the skill that goes into something like the F&SM, and the creator clearly has a vision he's pursuing.

[Guest JRF-1935]

You got banned from the MR forums? That's awesome man, awesome.

 

I was banned after this admittedly ill-tempered exchange...

 

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/141114.aspx?PageIndex=2

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

Mark  - KUDOS to you !!

[bikkuri bahn]

So rather than go out and observe the real world and model what they see, they simply copy what the modelling media say are great layouts.

 

You hit the nail on the head right there.  I have read the advice of well known modelers (mainly in the British press, and also the writers/editors of US Magazines like Prototype Modeler), and they consistently say- model what you see in the prototype- not just scenery and weathering, but also operations.  Of course it is all a matter of taste in the end, but to uphold what I see as overdone, cluttered, and indeed "toonerville" layouts as the standard is mistaken. I think MR is a big reason for this prevailing attitude, which is widely considered to have started with their hyping of Malcolm Furlow's work (which I never liked even as a youngster- rather I loved their Clinchfield Project Layout)  As for U.S. prototype, I am partial to the work of Bill Darnaby (Maumee Route), Ken Patterson's work, as well as the layout of the now defunct Midwest Railroad Modelers at Batavia- all restrained in scenery, where the emphasis is on the trains running through the scenery, with the trains the main actors rather than overdone backgrounds and details.  It helps those modelers do Midwest US prototype, and so you can avoid the cliche mountain pass (western US) and massive brick warehouse (eastern seaboard) scenery.

[Martijn Meerts]

You got banned from the MR forums? That's awesome man, awesome.

 

I was banned after this admittedly ill-tempered exchange...

 

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/141114.aspx?PageIndex=2

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

 

That is pretty much exactly why I don't like most of the model railroad forums. A lot of people asking for opinions on their layout, but if you point out something that could be done better, or is just downright wrong, you get the mods on your back 

[cumber_s]

Year there are unfortunatly some Modelel boards where some oppions are frowned upon.

(I was throung out of a German! modelling board because I said the Nazis were the bad ones , and for playfully describing the capitvity as " free sibirian vacition")

 

Back to the orgional topic, wheathering is not only about making thinks look dirty , but makinig them look different from the store - bought stuff. Wheathering has made its way from just applying black paint to make something appear dirty to the methods from plastics modelling

 

I personaly distinguish 2 different styles , if I get someting new and worth collecting (ie. it did cost more then 30$)

 

and secondly if I buy something second hand with damages or a kit (or a semi kit like the Tomytec stuff, which I like)

[brill27mcb]

A heavily dirtied and weathered layout is just one type of what I call "caricature" modeling, where you take some aspect to the extreme. John Allen, with the Gorre and Daphetid ("gory and defeated") railroad, was the first one to do this famously, with freight cars incredibly sagged, buildings incredibly beat up, etc. In the U.S. and Model Railroader magazine, Malcolm Furlow was another caricature modeler, with incredibly unrealistic but eye-catching desert towns and scenery. The F&SM (Sellios?) is another example, but the worst "offender" was Michael Tylick who made a model Connecticut trolley line look like a post-apocalyptic Great Depression bad dream. I think the modeling appeal is that these people have achieved incredible mastery of a technique (weathering, 3-D illusion, etc.). But they just take it too far, so the technique ends up mastering them. Other examples of taking a good thing in life to the extreme (in my opinion anyway) are bodybuilding and operatic singing. 

 

Rich K.

[Barobutt]

I"m trying my best to make my layout look as realistic as possible.  I'm doing my own local area, a fantasy city (oh god don't shoot me) but set in an exact geographical position in reality.  Even trying to get my background to match what the background would look like in that area.  Doing the best I can for realistic scenery and operations, while maintaining a loop track plan.  I have the layout divided into two with a background running down the middle so there's two separate realistic scenes.  Right now my big problem is getting the plants/trees right as it's VERY hard for my area (temperate rainforest).  My town isn't run-down at all, but still needs a lot of weathering to look realistic and not flat.

 

The CENTRAM I got is perfect though.  I want to paint the pantographs up a bit and weather and paint some of the roof equipment, but otherwise it's perfect as a shiny new modern tram, will make a good contrast to my moderately weathered old diesel freight engines.

[marknewton]

Don't forget the black patch around railcar exhaust pipes and the brown patch on the roof of electric trains because of pan shoe wear.

 

I had, you know.

 

Looking at photos of various Kiha's, the black patch can be fairly small, or in some cases most of the roof is rather grimy, and you can see exactly how high the wash-plant brushes reach.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

That is pretty much exactly why I don't like most of the model railroad forums. A lot of people asking for opinions on their layout, but if you point out something that could be done better, or is just downright wrong, you get the mods on your back 

 

You're not wrong, Martin, although I'll readily admit that I was often less than diplomatic with some of my comments. And of course, I was criticising some of the "shibboleths" of US model railroading.

 

The MR forum moderator always struck me as being an odd choice for that role. He seemed overly sensitive, had a rather poor grasp of the English language, and didn't seem to know much at all about modelling. I can only assume he didn't cost much to hire. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

I"m trying my best to make my layout look as realistic as possible.  I'm doing my own local area, a fantasy city (oh god don't shoot me) but set in an exact geographical position in reality.  Even trying to get my background to match what the background would look like in that area.  Doing the best I can for realistic scenery and operations, while maintaining a loop track plan.  I have the layout divided into two with a background running down the middle so there's two separate realistic scenes.  Right now my big problem is getting the plants/trees right as it's VERY hard for my area (temperate rainforest).

 

Sounds like a  very interesting concept to me, but I wouldn't call it fantasy. Proto-freelance is more like it, I reckon. What geographical area are you modelling?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Samurai_Chris]

For those who think Japan is a modern and clean utopia..

 

Here are a few pics, and this just my own street... My next door neighbors burn there rubbish in their front yard??? wtf..

 

This is the second wealthiest country in the world, and my house still doesn't have running sewerage.. We have to get the tank pumped every month..

 

 

 

 

 

 

So feel to weather as much as you like.. As you can see.. Nothing ever gets repaired or painted here anymore..

 

Chris

[Barobutt]

This has also been my impression of Japan: just as dirty as anywhere else.  In fact I found many things far more dirty. 

[spacecadet]

You know you're a New Yorker when you look at those pictures and say "wow, that looks clean!"

 

Seriously, though, that really doesn't look that bad to me.  Certainly doesn't look like the post-apocalyptic hellscape of a lot of western train layouts.

 

Edit: I mean I think this brings up the real issue, which is that people see what they want to see.  I look at those photos and to me they look cleaner than either my own surroundings or most train layouts.  I don't see any obvious piles of rubble where entire buildings have collapsed, or any graffiti, or anything that has burned and then just been left standing for years.  This is what I'm used to seeing every day.  In these photos I see functional, livable buildings - sure, not all pretty, but you wouldn't really notice that from a scale distance.

 

Someone else looks at them and just sees a pile of garbage and rust.  Same is true in real life.  I live in kind of a hellhole compared to almost anywhere in Japan and so consequently, whenever I go there it looks spotless to me, everywhere.  And I just like Japan so it probably looks cleaner because of that.  I dislike where I live now so that looks comparatively worse to me.

 

People who heavily weather layouts to the point of turning them into wastelands are doing a similar kind of editorializing in their minds, for their own reasons.  It's never really a reflection of objective reality.