Layout ready to start building!

[Dani]

Hi! I've been working in a new layout, and I want to start building it right now or I'll be all my life doing little modifications because always find something to do better! It's planned with Peco CODE 55 track and servos to move the switches (all in DCC).

 

 

It's a double track dogbone with an elevated area with narrow curves for a small train to bring passengers to the temple / baths area, a center area for goods transit, and the lower / right part for a city. It also has a small hiden station. I tried to mix a bit of everything.... :S

Shinkansens can avoid to to go up to this temple area and run always along the dogbone (curves > 329mm). Is this radius enough for long shinkansens? I also avoided ramps > 3%. I've planned the stations for 1 meter long trains, how long is a shinkansen? Enough?

 

 

Before setting this layout as definitive, any sugestions?

 

Thanks!!!

m(_ _)m

[keitaro]

looks pretty epic 

[KenS]

The length of a Shinkansen depends on the train, and whether you want to be identical to the prototype or not.  Some of them are 16 cars long, and take more than 2m of platform. But there are smaller ones.  Is there a specific train or line you're interested in, or just a generic "bullet train"?

 

It's not clear to me where you were planning to put the platforms. Would they be curved? Tomix does make some curved platforms, but the selection is less than for straight ones.

 

It looks like an interesting design.  Remember to allow for access to the hidden tracks to fix derailments and to clean the track. And keep us updated on progress.

[Dani]

The length of a Shinkansen depends on the train, and whether you want to be identical to the prototype or not.  Some of them are 16 cars long, and take more than 2m of platform. But there are smaller ones.  Is there a specific train or line you're interested in, or just a generic "bullet train"?

 

It's not clear to me where you were planning to put the platforms. Would they be curved? Tomix does make some curved platforms, but the selection is less than for straight ones.

 

It looks like an interesting design.  Remember to allow for access to the hidden tracks to fix derailments and to clean the track. And keep us updated on progress.

 

I was thinking in a shinkansen like Nozomi from Kato, 8 cars. How long can it be? (http://cgi.ebay.com/Shinkansen-700-Nozomi-8-cars-Kato-10-276-10-277-/120697331814?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c1a1f2066#ht_5549wt_1139)

 

About the platform, now it's a bit more than 1 meter. It will be situated between the 3 gray tracks and the 2 red ones. I'll try to post a render to see it better.

 

Thanks all!!

[Martijn Meerts]

A full length 16-car shinkansen is around 250 cm, so 8 part would be around 120 cm. You could go for the series 800 shinkansen though, which is 6 cars and looks real good. There have also been various other 6-car shinkansen releases. 329mm should be enough for all shinkansen btw.

 

Since you're using Peco, you might have a look at modifying the turnouts a bit. They can cause shorts (the electrofrog ones) around the frog. With DC operation it's not an issue, but with DCC it might cause the command station to shut down or report false occupancy of blocks. When they get older, they can also start showing power routing problems from the closure rails to the point rails, which causes the point rails to be without power. Some people say you HAVE to drop feeders from various parts of the turnout, but it's really just sort of a safety net (better to spend some extra time now and wire them up completely, than to have to go back and replace the turnout at a later time)

 

If you're using electrofrog turnouts, you'll likely need a way to polarize the frog. Various servo controllers can do this. Personally I'm using the ESU switchpilot servo and switchpilot extension combination, which works rather nice.

[keitaro]

In regards to corner platforms I was told they are a no go for shinkansens because they stick out on corners too much and rub?

 

back on topic

 

I don't think you will be putting more than 6 cars if you want it to fit the station.

[Dani]

Finally I found information about car length for Tomix series 500 Nozomi: Cab cars: 170mm, other 158mm.

 

So, the basic 3 car set + 4 cars Add-on set measures a total of: 1130 mm.

 

I should do it just a little bit longer....

[Bernard]

Dani - I like your design but I do have one concern......the hidden area in the center for the layout which looks to be a yard, how accessible is that going to be if a train derails? Also maintenance of the track and turnouts in a hidden area.

 

I also run Shinkansen's on my layout and in my test I found that a safe radii was 17.5" or 444.5mm, I have one area in my yard that the radii is 16" (or 406.4mm) and my 700 can't handle it.

The look of the code 55 is going to look great and Peco does make it with concrete ties. One thing to note, the Shinkansens sit very low to the track and are very sensitive to bumps, this usually happens with flex track when soldering the curves so you have to be extra careful making them.

 

Another point, since you'll be doing DCC you will have to run feeder wires from the top level through the bottom level to the underside of the layout....just plan it out that the feeder wires don't get in the way.

 

I look forward to seeing how your layout comes together!

[Dani]

Thanks for these great sugestions!!

 

My idea is to build the structure with wood ribs. I can print the ribs' plans at 1:1 from the design software (wintrack) taking into account the holes for tracks and the terrain silhouette. It will not be built from a flat table. So all points are accesible from the bottom.

 

Now I'm worried about the radius... I saw on that post (http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php?topic=1996.0) that 280mm was the minimum radius to avoid problems... ooops...

[Martijn Meerts]

Thanks for these great sugestions!!

 

My idea is to build the structure with wood ribs. I can print the ribs' plans at 1:1 from the design software (wintrack) taking into account the holes for tracks and the terrain silhouette. It will not be built from a flat table. So all points are accesible from the bottom.

 

Now I'm worried about the radius... I saw on that post (http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php?topic=1996.0) that 280mm was the minimum radius to avoid problems... ooops...

 

I believe Kato has 315mm as minimum, Tomix has 317mm as minimum. Many shinkansen can also handle 280mm. None of my shinkansen have issues with a Tomix 317mm curve.

[David]

Kato brand Shinkansens are almost all 315mm, though many can run (not ideally) on 282mm. Tomix are mostly 280mm. However these radii mentioned are for the proper operation of the trucks and couplers - it does not take into consideration the large loading gauge of 25m Shinkansens which will cause them to hang over the edge of the track much more then a regular 20m train car.

 

You'll need to test any track side structures or obstructions on curves (like tunnel portals, overhead wiring masts and fences) to make sure Shinkansens won't hit them (you may need to get creative to hide the loading gauge issue when planting masts on sharp curves). This is also why curved platforms are out completely (you also need to be careful with any curved approachs to straight platforms).

[angusmclean]

May I suggest a bay platform from the station and elevate to the hill area as this would give you the opportunity to run a variety of  railcars and short  freight operation to a small branch station which would widen the scope of operation.

 

Angus

[Mudkip Orange]

This is indeed an epic layout plan. Linn Westcott is smiling from the afterlife.

 

I'm with Angus, though. If you move the switches from the mainline to the temple/bath spur out of the tunnel and into the station area, it'll let you run temple trains independently of whatever's on the main line.

 

See attached for an example.

[Dani]

Nice idea Angus & Mudkip!!!! It would be something like that. See that I can't expand the cyan track, it's not at the same height than the others:

 

[Barobutt]

How will you access all that underground track?

[David]

What program is this by the way? I've seen these plan -> 3D screnshots a few times in recent weeks. Does this program come with Kato sectional track definitions, or is it just flex track and peco?

[Dani]

Barobutt: I want to build it with ribs, so from the under I can access everywhere. I also planned the hidden station to be 10 cm. lower than the lowest level to have enough room for my hand.  

 

David: It's wintrack 8.0. It's not the last version, but really powerfull. You have all the libraries in N from KATO, Minitrix, Peco code 80, Peco code 55, Fleischmann, Arnold and Roco!!!! It also includes flex track, auto-connecting, and many usefull features. And just drawing a line it generates the rib plan to help you build the structure, here I show you a screenshot of the ribs generation, that you can print in 1:1

 

[Dani]

I started to build!!!!! After one year of drawings and plans, I finally started. It will grow very slowly, but with no pauses.... :)

 

 

Post in my blog --> here

[Bernard]

I like how you transferred you plan onto the layout board. I had to transfer my layout by hand....like you's a lot better :)

[KenS]

The start of construction is a big event, and for me at least a nerve-wracking one. Now you get to see how good your plans were, and, inevitably, discover something overlooked that causes you to adjust them.  If you do have problems, don't get discouraged.  We've all been there, I think, and mostly managed to work through any that came up.

 

Keep us posted on your progress as construction proceeds.  Watching someone else build a layout is almost as much fun as building one, and much easier on the nerves.    And don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.

[Mudkip Orange]

Awesome! Lookin' forward to construction photos.

[Dani]

I can't believe it!!!! I cut all the wood, everything seems to feet with no problems, and I still have all my fingers!!!! But I'm even more scared, something wrong will appear... I'm never so lucky...     :S

 

But I will not discover it until next holidays :( :( :( I'll keep posting!!

 

 

 

Original post: here

[Dani]

Layout finished!!!! It's been an insane work, with many beginner problems, but the result is stable, really light weight and strong to hold even me on the top (I'm quite big... no kidding...). Many things could have been done better, but being the first model that I build different from a flat table with tracks on the top I'm really satisfied.

 

I link the post of my blog here where I explain materials and how I built it.

 

 

Regards!

[The_Ghan]

Dani,

 

I'd missed your thread before.  Having looked at your track plan I strongly suggest you look at my post here: http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,4660.msg51678.html#msg51678 and download the two attachments about John's layout.  Also, read up in the DCC section about stopping trains in the right place.  Basically, your layout needs "slow down" and "stop" blocks for correct DCC control.  You also have reversing loops - two that I can see (having had a closer look it is actually only one - in dark red).  These also need special attention.

 

Even if you plan to choose (or have chosen) a different DCC manufacturer, I suggest you read up on the Digitrax webpage - one of the best explanations I have found on how to do these things.

 

I noticed that you're using flex for long straights.  You'll need a short piece at the front end of each station with one rail isolated to be a "Stop" block.  Generally about a car length, 140mm, is enough.

 

I think the layout you've come up with is fantastic.  You've obviously thought carefully about how all this works and I'm looking forward to seeing more progress.  In the meantime, make sure your wiring is right for DCC.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Bernard]

Dani - What a complex layout you've designed and built! You're carpentry skills are first rate.