Real Rant

[Guest ___]

Just got an EF81 from PlazaJapan today, and all I can say is that it looks good, but it's all junk. It will not run at all. All I get is the directional lighting. I tapped it a few times and after ten minutes of fiddling with it, I got it to run about a third of the way around the track, it was noisy, clunky, and it derailed. Rerailed it

and it wouldn't run after that. Tried another power pack to see what it would do, and same thing, wouldn't run. All I can get is the directional lighting, and that's it. I give up on Plaza, every order I place with them is a problem. (cross posted to Z-scale Yahoo group)

[Bernard]

Hi Shashinka,

I would email Jun at PlazaJapan and tell him about  the problem with the EF81 that it arrived defective. See if he will make good on this problem, at this point you have nothing to lose. No retailer wants a dissatisfied customer.

 

Also some of the members here might have experienced the same problem with this train and might be able to talk you through the steps in fixing it.

Okay, guys?

 

Oh, is the EF81 that you purchased made by Tomix or Kato?

[Guest ___]

I would email Jun at PlazaJapan and tell him about  the problem with the EF81 that it arrived defective. See if he will make good on this problem, at this point you have nothing to lose. No retailer wants a dissatisfied customer.  Also some of the members here might have experienced the same problem with this train and might be able to talk you through the steps in fixing it.

Okay, guys? Oh, is the EF81 that you purchased made by Tomix or Kato?

 

Neither it is RealZJ, it's Z-scale.The problem with this is that the shipping back is another 20 dollars so I'm paying shipping twice. So now a fifty dollar loco is going to cost me 90 by the time I ship it back,. At this point it's just not worth it. This my second order with Plaza and the second problem, so I just give up and am ready to cut my losses.

[Bernard]

I would still email Jun about the problem, he can do 4 possible things, he might pay for the shipping to send it back, he might just send you another EF81, ask you to pay for the shipping (which I agree would be costly) or nothing. But you have nothing to lose by just emailing him and telling him about the problem and how disappointed you are.

 

A while ago, I had a problem with some WS inclines I bought, they arrived crushed. I told the company, MB Klein, what happened and they just resent the order, no questions asked. 

[bill937ca]

What kind of power pack are you using? Have you successfully run Z scale with that power pack before?

[Guest ___]

I would still email Jun about the problem, he can do 4 possible things, he might pay for the shipping to send it back, he might just send you another EF81, ask you to pay for the shipping (which I agree would be costly) or nothing. But you have nothing to lose by just emailing him and telling him about the problem and how disappointed you are.

 

A while ago, I had a problem with some WS inclines I bought, they arrived crushed. I told the company, MB Klein, what happened and they just resent the order, no questions asked. 

 

I did contact him about this and am waiting for a reply.  As for the power packs, the power pack used is good, and to be sure I did test my other Z-scale stuff on the same unit afterward to ensure it was not a pack issue. I also tried the unit with another power pack just to check on the voltage. I have heard a few other people saying that the RealZJ stuff is garbage when it comes to operating so I guess I only have myself to blame in so far as that goes.

[bill937ca]

Well I've found a similar complaint about the EF81 on another board, so it appears to be RealRZ quality.  I've never had any problems with Plaza Japan.  I think you'll find he's caught in the middle.

[Guest ___]

Well I've found a similar complaint about the EF81 on another board, so it appears to be RealRZ quality.  I've never had any problems with Plaza Japan.  I think you'll find he's caught in the middle.

 

I heard back from Plaza. The unit is out of stock so he does not have a replacement for it. As a result, they have refunded my money. I'm going to stop at the post office today and see what it will cost to send it back economy rather than express. If the unit is not running, I see no reason to spend 26 bucks to return the shipment on a broken unit.

[Bernard]

Before you send it back ask him if he wants it back and if so will he pay for the shipping. Right now you're getting a refund so you're coming out even.

I have a feeling you're not the only customer of his having the problem with the EF81.

[Darren Jeffries]

Well I've found a similar complaint about the EF81 on another board, so it appears to be RealRZ quality.  I've never had any problems with Plaza Japan.  I think you'll find he's caught in the middle.

 

I heard back from Plaza. The unit is out of stock so he does not have a replacement for it. As a result, they have refunded my money. I'm going to stop at the post office today and see what it will cost to send it back economy rather than express. If the unit is not running, I see no reason to spend 26 bucks to return the shipment on a broken unit.

 

This is good news. I have not heard any direct complaints of substance against Plaza. This seems to be a manufacturing issue.

 

I am working on trying to build some relationships with some of the big retailers. For example (completely random example!!!) members of planetchristmas.com forums can get discounts from actionlighting.com and other christmas lighting retailers. This is something that in time and with growth to the board i would like to achieve for the members. Good word of mouth is crucial to retailers, especially in the current economic downturn.

[Guest ___]

AS the drama unfolds. I woke up this morning and received an email from Jun. He said to keep the unit. Shortly there after I received payment notice that I had been refunded the cost of the unit. So, feeling guilty as I do because it was not my intent to screw Jun out of money, I resubmitted the cost of the unit to him. After talking with Garth and Jeff, we're going to see if we can get the unit to run. It may be something simple or it may not.

 

For anyone out there who has not ordered though Plaza let me just state, Plaza is a good place to do business. Granted I just had a run of bad karma. This is not to state that Plaza is a bad place or sells bad gear, just I had a slough of bad luck. It happens. Regardless of that, Plaza did go well beyond the levels of service that I am use to expecting here, and it was done so fast.

[Guest ___]

Special thanks to Jeff and Garth on the Z-Scale J-train user group. Jeff had taken the little troublemaker home and opened her up. This was what he found. Hopefully, Jeff doesn't mind me sharing this as in case anyone else ever encounters a problem with one of these, this may be something that can be of help.

 

 

a) on one truck the track tire was on the wrong side and wrong axle! this meant that you were only getting 2 wheel pickup on the side that both traction tires were on. traction tires are always on opposite sides to give even pickup and traction on both rails.

 

b) found two white hairs sucked up into the gears of the truck i took apart to move the traction tire. probably making thing run poorly, they were really tangled in there. you might see about a little keyboard vacuum cleaner to run over your tracks now and then since i now realize that a small hair like this in z really can gum things up compared to n scale!

 

c) realzj appears not to lube their gears at all. i checked with garth and he said he has three of these and one kept making noises so he did a very small amount of lubing and it did the trick. also break in really helps these units start running smoother and quieter.

 

d) one of the truck pickup contacts on the chassis was bent in a little, and i think, maybe not giving contact on one of the trucks on one side. got it bent back to the same position as the others.

 

e) the center truck is a tad funky with its spring mechanism, i could see if one of the wheels was not on the track properly it could easily jam the train up and derail it. again this is probably due to the very small size of the z scale loco. n scale locos with center trucks have a similar problem, but the increased weight and stability of the larger n scale i think keeps the truck from jamming and probably forces a re-rail on a point

[Bernard]

Congratulations on getting it to work and we have no problem having Jeff and/or Garth sharing how they fixed your problem. (I hope they don't)

What would have been great is if Jeff was able to take photos of what the problem was and how he fixed it. I have a feeling this could be a common problem.

 

And if Jeff and Garth aren't member of the forum, tell them they are welcomed to join, we'd love to have them share their knowledge of trains!

[Guest ___]

Congratulations on getting it to work and we have no problem having Jeff and/or Garth sharing how they fixed your problem. (I hope they don't)

What would have been great is if Jeff was able to take photos of what the problem was and how he fixed it. I have a feeling this could be a common problem.

 

And if Jeff and Garth aren't member of the forum, tell them they are welcomed to join, we'd love to have them share their knowledge of trains!

 

Can't speak for Garth, but Jeff doesn't seem to like forums all too much. Though slowly I'm working on bringing more JRM members in here. I do not think Garth would mind a friendly plug for the forums ion the Yahoo group. He seems like a good guy and Jeff thinks the world of him.

 

Anycase, got it home last week and it ran, about half way around the Pro-Z loop and derailed on the X-over. Three more attempt is both directions with the same result. It also can not make it around the inside radius either. The curve is just too tight for it. When putting the EF-81 next to my Pro-Z EF65, one can really appreciate the length difference. Oh well, it will make a good displace piece whenever the Plate C and D sets come out. I am grateful that they are working though.

[Welshbloke]

Derailing on the crossover sounds like a gauge problem on the loco to me - if you check the wheelsets with a micrometer then you may find that one of them is too narrow or too wide back to back (measure between the backs of the wheel flanges).

 

The original problem definitely sounded like an assembly mistake or a few of them - I had a Bachmann N loco a few years ago where one of the pickups was bent around the bogie frame. Running improved dramatically when I straightened it and reassembled as the designer intended!

[Guest ___]

Derailing on the crossover sounds like a gauge problem on the loco to me - if you check the wheelsets with a micrometer then you may find that one of them is too narrow or too wide back to back (measure between the backs of the wheel flanges).

 

The original problem definitely sounded like an assembly mistake or a few of them - I had a Bachmann N loco a few years ago where one of the pickups was bent around the bogie frame. Running improved dramatically when I straightened it and reassembled as the designer intended!

 

I think part of Hit is that the EF81 is much larger than the EF65's that are designed to run on the Pro-Z dioramas. The inside radius is tight, but the S-curve to the X-over is even tighter, so I was amazed by the fact that both my EF81 and the E231 sets can navigate it so well. However given the history with the EF81 by RealZJ, I am not surprised by it having issues with the track. In the end, I believe this model while looks good externally was just poorly engineered from the start.

 

EDIT: LOCKED