What did you order or the post deliver? (HO and other scales)

[GDorsett]

Do locos pull KiHas frequently or only over certain lines? What is the logic there?

[Kamome]

30 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

Do locos pull KiHas frequently or only over certain lines? What is the logic there?

Just on steep mountainous passes.

 

The EF71s were an AC loco that had duties such as assisting the Kiha 81 Tsubasas on the steep passes in the Tohoku region. I think the plan was that these helper duties would be obsolete once they introduced highly powerful Kiha 181s but the inclines proved a bit tough even for these units. There was frequent engine trouble on the 33.3% inclines. Once they introduced the 485s, there was no longer need for the EF71s to assist multiple units.

 

The other example was the ED42s and EF63s on the Usui Pass. The ED42s used a rack rail and were later replaced by the EF63s and the rack rail removed Both DMUs like the Kiha 82s were being assisted by banking locos over the Usui Pass. This was the normal procedure for all trains over this pass until the line closed in 1997 with the completion of the Nagano Shinkansen.

 

I certainly think these formations make things a little more interesting than just a regular multiple unit.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Kamome

[GDorsett]

I figured it'd be a helper service. The KiHas are hydraulic, right? Not electric?

[Kiha66]

I believe kihas usually use mechanical drive (ie propshaft to the truck) with a hydraulic torque converter. 

[GDorsett]

aka, diesel hydraulic, versus using a generator and traction motours. The American RDCs are the same way, except they started with two diesels (one for each truck) instead of starting with one diesel and then gaining a second as they go on. Were the KiHAs powered down through the mountain trip or did they assist the locomotive as well?

[Kiha66]

If I recall correctly, the locomotive acted as a banking or helper locomotive, adding additional power to the train rather than taking over from the on board power.

[GDorsett]

ah, alright. Interesting. Could be something neat to model.

Hoping the 65s I ordered will come in soon. Part of the order was backed up and they were caught in it. If these two look/run as good as I think they will, I'll likely order some more compatible units with the long term goal of having a set of eight to run together.

[GDorsett]

What all can I run with KiHa 65s? Or should I stick to the "prototype for everything" thread and use a picture I have stashed with an OHa 12 inbetween?

[Kiha66]

Usually the kiha 65 would be matched with kiha 28 and 58 type coaches.  Older kihas could also be mixed in as well.

[GDorsett]

Alright. Off to Buyee it is, I guess.

[Kiha66]

I'm very worried about being tempted to get the kiha58 series as well, seeing as buyee seems to be the only option.  I hope I can be content with just the Kiha82 (and maybe 81...).

[Kamome]

If this forum is anything to go by, none of us are ever content. I’ve already fallen way further down the HO rabbit hole than intended. 

 

It’s first Sunday running day at Kyushu Railway shop so who knows what new cravings I’ll have.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Kamome

[GDorsett]

Hey, my HO started as a practical joke. It's not at least two mostly full trains, a third partial train, and a fourth partial train in the mail. Hooray.

[serotta1972]

I don't know about you all but I'm kind of getting tired of reading about HO trains, I thought "N" in JNS stood for N Scale.  HO Trains are dangerous and are a disruption to our N Scale collective, it takes away from the sales of N Scale trains.  Kiha66 just bought a Kato Kiha 4 car Set and for that amount he could've bought the Kato Kiha 181 - 7 car set and Kato Kiha 82 - 7 car set.  To me that is just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense.  Sorry for the rant but I will confer with other moderators to ban the discussion of HO products and those who continue to do so will also be ban from the forum.  

 

Haha, just kidding.  It's just a matter of time that I will own an HO Tomix Series 115 Set and it won't just be a 4 car set, therefor HO is a dangerous game. 🙂

[chadbag]

18 minutes ago, serotta1972 said:

I don't know about you all but I'm kind of getting tired of reading about HO trains, I thought "N" in JNS stood for N Scale.  HO Trains are dangerous and are a disruption to our N Scale collective, it takes away from the sales of N Scale trains.  Kiha66 just bought a Kato Kiha 4 car Set and for that amount he could've bought the Kato Kiha 181 - 7 car set and Kato Kiha 82 - 7 car set.  To me that is just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense.  Sorry for the rant but I will confer with other moderators to ban the discussion of HO products and those who continue to do so will also be ban from the forum.  

🙂

 

 

Amen Brother!

😉

 

[Kiha66]

26 minutes ago, serotta1972 said:

Kiha66 just bought a Kato Kiha 4 car Set and for that amount he could've bought the Kato Kiha 181 - 7 car set and Kato Kiha 82 - 7 car set.

 

Thats the dangerous thing, I also already own both those other sets as well...   I think I may have a problem 😁

[cteno4]

First step bro, first step...

 

jeff

[marknewton]

14 hours ago, GDorsett said:

What all can I run with KiHa 65s? Or should I stick to the "prototype for everything" thread and use a picture I have stashed with an OHa 12 inbetween?

 

You’ll need something powered to run with the KiHa 65s, because they aren’t motorised. The topic of one of the pictorial books I own is diesel cars - most of the photos that feature 65s show them running with KiHa58s.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[GDorsett]

Not motourized on their own? Well bugger. The models have motours in them (so is claimed). Guess I'll drag em with my DE10 for a while when they come in untill I can find more.

[Kiha66]

Of the models, only the kiha 58 cars have a motorized version.  This is true for both the HO and N scale versions, from both kato and tomix.  I suppose since that was the most common type it makes sense that they chose that particular one to motorize, and it does at least lower the cost for adding other cars to the train.

https://www.katomodels.com/product/ho/ho_kiha28_58
1-601 is the car that comes with a motor.  The rest are unpowered.

[GDorsett]

This one is 1-605.

[marknewton]

15 hours ago, GDorsett said:

Not motourized on their own? Well bugger. The models have motours in them (so is claimed). Guess I'll drag em with my DE10 for a while when they come in untill I can find more.

 

Sorry, my comment was a bit ambiguous. The real KiHa65s are of course powered, its the models that don't have motors. I now have four of the things, one of which I motorised with a NWSL Stanton drive. It gets along quite nicely.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[GDorsett]

Aahh. So what do they mean when the store says they are equipped with flywheel drive?

[Kamome]

The flywheel maintains torque while the motor is running. My understanding is that it smooths out the bumps in changes in throttle as you either increase/decrease voltage. The same will happen if there’s any voltage drop on your track work. I guess if you have impeccably reliable track work it’s not hugely necessary. I’m also not clear if it’s essential for DCC. 

 

I have a few older models that don’t have a flywheel and the wheels slip if there’s a large change in voltage. (i.e. when my 4 year old misses the stopping point of a shinkansen station)

 

The flywheel equipped trains coast a little if the power is suddenly turned off.

 

I also think that from a modeling perspective, the flywheel gives essentially a light plastic model, a little more weight to its behavior. More like the inertia of a life-sized train.

[Martijn Meerts]

I think what he meant was that the store specifies the model is equipped with a flywheel drive, while those models actually don't have a motor at all 🙂